2018 Noble, OK, Shooting

 

Range training should really be a quarterly process for police departments. The video below was released of a police officer’s encounter with a subject who had an outstanding warrant for armed robbery. The officer was not aware of the warrant.

Part of the qualification course in the agency I worked for was two rounds, center mass, from a holstered firearm in no more than two seconds. Practice reinforces muscle memory. The officer does everything right, including his situational awareness when a second person comes around the corner of a house. He didn’t panic and held his fire when he pointed his pistol at the second person.

The first video has suspect info to help complete the story. This type of incident happens in seconds and then is dissected for months.

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Published in Policing
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  1. John H. Member
    John H.
    @JohnH

    Two seconds seems too long.

    All that, and the officer immediately yelled “Shots fired” into his bodycam mike. Amazing.

    • #1
  2. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    I can’t tell if the criminal is white or black, as his face is blurred out in the video.  From his hands, he appears white, but he could be wearing gloves.

    If he were black, I suppose that people would ask the question: why didn’t the cop leave him alone?  Why was the cop following him?  He was just minding his own business.

    • #2
  3. Quietpi Member
    Quietpi
    @Quietpi

    John H. (View Comment):

    Two seconds seems too long.

    All that, and the officer immediately yelled “Shots fired” into his bodycam mike. Amazing.

    Try it.  No fair starting with hand on weapon, either.  

    Doug Watt didn’t mention the range at which you are expected to perform this.  

    • #3
  4. CorbinGlassauer Inactive
    CorbinGlassauer
    @CorbinGlassauer

    Quietpi (View Comment):

    John H. (View Comment):

    Two seconds seems too long.

    All that, and the officer immediately yelled “Shots fired” into his bodycam mike. Amazing.

    Try it. No fair starting with hand on weapon, either.

    Doug Watt didn’t mention the range at which you are expected to perform this.

    Or if hand is on the weapon. This officer’s was.

    • #4
  5. Jimmy Carter Member
    Jimmy Carter
    @JimmyCarter

    In the second one, Who is recording it? The camera is moving.

    • #5
  6. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    That is a thing of beauty. 

    • #6
  7. Doug Watt Moderator
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    The criminal was White.  It’s not clear in the second video how it was recorded. Perhaps a dash cam, more likely a cell phone. The one problem with body cams, as well as dash cams, or cell phones is that they have very limited field of view. It’s not like a sporting event that has multiple fields of view from different cameras. Another distortion is that some media outlets are presenting a still shot from body cams, rather than the entire video.

    • #7
  8. Quietpi Member
    Quietpi
    @Quietpi

    CorbinGlassauer (View Comment):
    Or if hand is on the weapon. This officer’s was.

    Correct.  I was referring to Doug Watt’s qualification standard.  This was very impressive performance, and hand on weapon was completely justified.  

    BTW qualification must be done with your duty firearm, and full – power ammo.  No wadcutters here.  

    Ya, I know, regular wadcutters don’t function in a semiauto.  But light target loads are still made.  If you carry +P, then you had better be qualifying with +P.

    • #8
  9. Doug Watt Moderator
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    CorbinGlassauer (View Comment):

    Quietpi (View Comment):

    John H. (View Comment):

    Two seconds seems too long.

    All that, and the officer immediately yelled “Shots fired” into his bodycam mike. Amazing.

    Try it. No fair starting with hand on weapon, either.

    Doug Watt didn’t mention the range at which you are expected to perform this.

    Or if hand is on the weapon. This officer’s was.

    It was, probably because the the suspect gave the officer a phony name and date of birth. He came back UTL (Unable To Locate) from the dispatcher. That and trying to walk away from from the officer puts an officer on alert.

    • #9
  10. Doug Watt Moderator
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    Quietpi (View Comment):

    John H. (View Comment):

    Two seconds seems too long.

    All that, and the officer immediately yelled “Shots fired” into his bodycam mike. Amazing.

    Try it. No fair starting with hand on weapon, either.

    Doug Watt didn’t mention the range at which you are expected to perform this.

    There are private ranges that will not let you draw from the holster and fire your weapon.

    • #10
  11. Doug Watt Moderator
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    Quietpi (View Comment):

    CorbinGlassauer (View Comment):
    Or if hand is on the weapon. This officer’s was.

    Correct. I was referring to Doug Watt’s qualification standard. This was very impressive performance, and hand on weapon was completely justified.

    BTW qualification must be done with your duty firearm, and full – power ammo. No wadcutters here.

    Ya, I know, regular wadcutters don’t function in a semiauto. But light target loads are still made. If you carry +P, then you had better be qualifying with +P.

    We had to qualify with 147 grain 9mm hollow points (duty ammo). Our Glocks were examined to make sure that we hadn’t modified our pistols, trigger pull weight was part of the examination process. We also had to qualify with shotguns to include buckshot rounds, and slugs. AR-15’s were not issued to every car, so officers that were issued the AR had to qualify on that weapon as well.

    • #11
  12. Jimmy Carter Member
    Jimmy Carter
    @JimmyCarter

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    It’s not clear in the second video how it was recorded. Perhaps a dash cam, more likely a cell phone. 

    I don’t think so. The camera didn’t even flinch.

     

    • #12
  13. Quietpi Member
    Quietpi
    @Quietpi

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    There are private ranges that will not let you draw from the holster and fire your weapon.

    That’s one big reason I belong to the range I do.

    However, with the current ammo situation, there isn’t much shooting going on at all.  This is a problem.

    • #13
  14. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell
    @JimMcConnell

    Quietpi (View Comment):

    CorbinGlassauer (View Comment):
    Or if hand is on the weapon. This officer’s was.

    Correct. I was referring to Doug Watt’s qualification standard. This was very impressive performance, and hand on weapon was completely justified.

    BTW qualification must be done with your duty firearm, and full – power ammo. No wadcutters here.

    Ya, I know, regular wadcutters don’t function in a semiauto. But light target loads are still made. If you carry +P, then you had better be qualifying with +P.

    Semi-wadcutters work very dependably in my Browning BDA-45 (actually a Sig-Saur P225).

    • #14
  15. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    At what point should the suspect have been ordered to the ground and searched for a weapon?

    • #15
  16. Gazpacho Grande' Coolidge
    Gazpacho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    That is some serious Van Damme stuff happening there.  Wow that was fast, and he did exactly the right thing in the space of what, 2 seconds, including not shooting the chowderhead coming up behind?

    Let’s buy that officer a new Chrysler Cordoba.

    See the source image

    • #16
  17. Gazpacho Grande' Coolidge
    Gazpacho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    John H. (View Comment):

    Two seconds seems too long.

    All that, and the officer immediately yelled “Shots fired” into his bodycam mike. Amazing.

    Caught that one, too – into the mike while pointing (and not firing) at the 2nd chowderhead.

    • #17
  18. Gazpacho Grande' Coolidge
    Gazpacho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    At what point should the suspect have been ordered to the ground and searched for a weapon?

    Basil comedy never fails.

    • #18
  19. dukenaltum Coolidge
    dukenaltum
    @dukenaltum

    Spectacularly good reaction time and thank God the Officer avoided being shot at such a close range.  

    For your consideration, I have watched this video twice (it is in my State).   Be warned that it contains extremely vulgar language by the women stopped by the Police. The patience and forbearance of these men is beyond my ability. 

    https://youtu.be/thjPLOt2T68

     

    • #19
  20. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Amazing – the officer had the reflexes to push the perp’s gun aside as he drew and fired, thus saving himself.

    • #20
  21. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    dukenaltum (View Comment):

    Spectacularly good reaction time and thank God the Officer avoided being shot at such a close range.

    For your consideration, I have watched this video twice (it is in my State). Be warned that it contains extremely vulgar language by the women stopped by the Police. The patience and forbearance of these men is beyond my ability.

    https://youtu.be/thjPLOt2T68

     

    Indeed it is.  I don’t know how they managed to get through the situation without smacking her.  Or, without drawing a gun on the guy in the UConn hoodie, who several times looks to me like he has a pistol under the garment.

    But still, it’s her car, and it wasn’t stolen. 

    • #21
  22. Quietpi Member
    Quietpi
    @Quietpi

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    At what point should the suspect have been ordered to the ground and searched for a weapon?

    Assuming this is a serious question, you don’t draw and order a person to ground just because he comes back “UTL.”  That’s switching the entire thing to a felony stop.  I wouldn’t call “UTL’s” routine, but they’re way too common.  Plus sometimes it’s due to an error in the officer understanding what the subject said, slurred speech in the subject, or an error by the dispatcher entering the data.  This whole thing “went to hell in a handbasket” in less time than the officer could have uttered the words, let alone the subject to obey, if he had a mind to – which he obviously didn’t.

    • #22
  23. dukenaltum Coolidge
    dukenaltum
    @dukenaltum

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    dukenaltum (View Comment):

    Spectacularly good reaction time and thank God the Officer avoided being shot at such a close range.

    For your consideration, I have watched this video twice (it is in my State). Be warned that it contains extremely vulgar language by the women stopped by the Police. The patience and forbearance of these men is beyond my ability.

    https://youtu.be/thjPLOt2T68

     

    Indeed it is. I don’t know how they managed to get through the situation without smacking her. Or, without drawing a gun on the guy in the UConn hoodie, who several times looks to me like he has a pistol under the garment.

    But still, it’s her car, and it wasn’t stolen.

    I don’t think her reaction in front of her child makes any sense no matter what the police said or did. Who hasn’t encountered the incompetence of government?  

    • #23
  24. Doug Watt Moderator
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    There are thousands upon thousands of interactions between police officers and citizens everyday and the vast majority of them never result in violence.

    As an officer you are in the position of having to react. The exception to reacting is searching for an active shooter. Tactics changed in many agencies came after the Columbine high school shooting. Rather than waiting for a SWAT team officers search for the shooter. Ideally two to three officers combine into what some call hunter cells to begin the search. There are some incidents in which one officer began the search to confront the shooter.

    Every confrontation has its’ own specific set of circumstances, but unfortunately there will always be those that seek to generalize on the outcome every incident.

    • #24
  25. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    Every confrontation has its’ own specific set of circumstances, but unfortunately there will always be those that seek to generalize on the outcome every incident.

    These words would bear repeating here every month, if not every week, and not only in connection with incidents that involve police.  

    • #25