When Will We Know If We Have Lost Our Country?

 

One of the mysteries that only the dead know, is whether they had any comprehension of death? Was there only an anticipation and then nothing? Or did they somehow know that they were now dead never to walk with the living again?

Imagine you are a serf in Russia in October 1917, or a small farmer in Provence, France, in May 1789. Retrospectively we know now what irreversible events occurred then, but to the people living their lives away from the consequential events, did they know that their lives had been set on a different course, with an entirely new set of understandings.

Derek Chauvin has been convicted of murdering George Floyd. Twelve citizens “good and true” have so determined. But we all know what the consequences of them finding Chauvin not guilty would have been. We know the pressures they must have felt if, if, they had reasonable doubt as to whether the case against him on any of the charged counts had been proved. Scott Adams said — before the verdict was rendered — that had he been a juror he would have voted to convict and then told the press he had done so because of the likelihood that harm would come to him, his family, and the community if he had done otherwise.

If the jury had not convicted Chauvin we would have known, known, that their verdict was free of jury intimidation or tampering. But because their verdict ran with rather than against the pressure on the community from BLM, the media, and politicians, we are left to speculate whether they were intimidated or not. And even were they to come on to a media program and vow that their verdict was free of influence and only based on the facts and law, could we believe them? Should we believe them?

And this is true whether or not G-d himself adjudged Chauvin guilty. And it is important because due process and equal protection of the law demands that we have confidence in our system — the one President Biden says is systemically racist — to be fair and just in the process by which decisions are made, even as we know those decisions are sometimes wrong.

The fact that we can harbor these doubts about the process regardless of the outcome should give all of us unease. Think of it another way, say you line up Usain Bolt 50 meters closer to the finish line than everyone else. You fire the pistol and sure enough, Usain Bolt crosses the line first. Do you count that as a win? Do you doubt that for any field of 10 or so runners that Usain Bolt wouldn’t beat them in a 100-meter dash? So Usain wins! Hoorah! What’s the problem?

This illustrates that it is how you run the contest, not just the outcome, that determines whether you have confidence in the fairness of it. And if we have lost confidence in our legal system (and we have) where are we?

For millions of Americans, we see two systems of justice. We have seen it with figures in the political arena since at least 2016. Disfavored persons have legal “difficulties”; favored persons have seemingly “get out of jail free” cards. Disfavored persons have SWAT teams knocking on their doors before dawn, and solitary confinement; favored persons have no bail or their bail paid for by celebrities and politicians. Disfavored persons are doxxed and canceled; favored persons are at liberty to do anything they want.

And now with the Chauvin trial, the cancer in our legal system is spreading. And this is true whether or not the jury’s decision is lawful. There are grounds for appeal based on procedural matters totally aside from whether or not a second jury in a different place and time would come to exactly the same decision. But what court is going to grant a new trial? Will any Minnesota court do so? John Hinderaker doesn’t think so. And he has been following this very closely.

Will a federal court do so? In a perfect world, this would be precisely the reason for a federal court to hear and rule. Recall the federal courts reviewing state court decisions in the Civil Rights era of the 1960s. But this is not then. The US Department of Justice will be opposing it. DOJ is all in with the forces pressuring the jury.

Is our constitutional Republic dead and we just don’t know it yet?

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  1. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    We knew in 1789. We just didn’t know how long the fall would take.

    • #1
  2. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    We will know it happened when we are no longer interested enough to care or to bother to write about it. 

    • #2
  3. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    Rodin: Is our constitutional Republic dead and we just don’t know it yet?

    Yes.  And we know it.

    • #3
  4. DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) Coolidge
    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!)
    @DonG

    Rodin: Is our constitutional Republic dead and we just don’t know it yet?

    This is just one case and there are many cases of mis-justice every year.  If the cops arrest fewer junkies, we’ll be OK.  The Columbus OH situation is more problematic.  If the cops are not able to stop active attempts at murder, we are living in the movie The Purge. 

    • #4
  5. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    We crossed the point of no return when Biden was elected. Since Democrats in big cities voted for the party that encouraged the sacking of their cities, then there is no winning them over. People say the rest of the country isn’t like social media. They are wrong. Most of the country is like social media. I see it on Nextdoor, cruise groups on Facebook, college sports, pro sports, and newspaper editorials.  

    The violence in the big cities will spread to smaller cities as all the rebels want to assert their newfound power to blame everyone for their own problems and use government to extract the wealth of the producers and pass it over to them. The powerful forces of the left will mow over any mayor who stands up to them. 

    There is a two-tier justice system, and it will only render injustice to our side. The lynch mobs will make sure of it, as we just saw. Those with power and influence will make sure of it, as we saw with the Bidens, the corrupt FBI, the corrupt DOJ, etc. 

    People are buying guns to defend themselves. The left says we shouldn’t have guns because we can’t defeat the military. It isn’t the military that will come after us, but the mob. Shoot a black criminal who invades your house and threatens you…the mob will come to your house and break your windows and protest loudly. Shoot a black criminal in self-defense in public…the mob will come to your house and damage it. Insurance often doesn’t cover acts of terrorism. The insurance policy I have for the community band (I am the treasurer) has a terrorism rider but you can only opt in at renewal time each year. The left will use lawfare to punish you, even if you shot someone legally in self defense. They do so by having the victim’s family sue. Even if you are certain to win, it will cost you a lot. After what you have witnessed, do you trust a jury once the mob threatens your town?

    Conservative black people are at equal or greater risk. The left demands loyalty and hates those who leave their plantation. All law abiding black people will suffer as well. The race war will create resentment among white people who will then look upon black people with fear, or worse,  creating resentment in return. Yes, the cultural Marxists have it all planned out and their game plan is unfolding as intended. There will be no winners.

    How will it end? Like the Balkans? Like Venezuela? Like the USSR, where the evil left never fully gives up its power and desire to control? Like the Civil War, only with a different outcome?  Is it too late for a correction? Have too many generations been ruined in our education system? Time will tell. I hope I am not around for the answer. 

    • #5
  6. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    EHerring (View Comment):

    We crossed the point of no return when Biden was elected. Since Democrats in big cities voted for the party that encouraged the sacking of their cities, then there is no winning them over. People say the rest of the country isn’t like social media. They are wrong. Most of the country is like social media.SNIP

    The violence in the big cities will spread to smaller cities as all the rebels want to assert their newfound power to blame everyone for their own problems and use government to extract the wealth of the producers and pass it over to them. The powerful forces of the left will mow over any mayor SNIP

    There is a two-tier justice system, and it will only render injustice to our side. The lynch mobs will make sure of it, as we just saw. Those with power and influence will make sure of it, as we saw with the Bidens, the corrupt FBI, the corrupt DOJ, etc.

    People are buying guns to defend themselves. The left says we shouldn’t have guns because we can’t defeat the military. It isn’t the military that will come after us, but the mob. SNIP

    Conservative black people are at equal or greater risk. The left demands loyalty and hates those who leave their plantation. All law abiding black people will suffer as well. The race war will create resentment among white people who will then look upon black people with fear, or worse, creating resentment in return. Yes, the cultural Marxists have it all planned out and their game plan is unfolding as intended. There will be no winners.

    How will it end? Like the Balkans? Like Venezuela? Like the USSR, where the evil left never fully gives up its power and desire to control? Like the Civil War, only with a different outcome? Is it too late for a correction? Have too many generations been ruined in our education system? Time will tell SNIP

    Regarding the Dems in the big cities voting for Biden: In the pertinent swing states there is a great deal of evidence that the 2020  election count was tampered with.

    In a Republic, the members of SCOTUS would have, as a critical matter, deemed the matter of the handling of the  mail in ballots and how that handling defied  PA  state election laws as a pertinent reason to hear the case. Instead earlier this week  they refused to hear it. People can read about the matter & a summary of why the mail in ballot situation was critical here:

    https://ricochet.com/939137/decent-or-indecent-ruling-from-scotus-no-need-to-hear-the-case-regarding-mail-in-ballots/#comment-5404862

    The Oval Office is occupied by Globalists United. As is the Democrat-held House. Although a case can be made the Senate is Republican, most Republicans are almost indistinguishable from Dems, if actions and not words are examined.

    • #6
  7. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    EHerring (View Comment):

    We crossed the point of no return when Biden was elected. Since Democrats in big cities voted for the party that encouraged the sacking of their cities, then there is no winning them over. People say the rest of the country isn’t like social media. They are wrong. Most of the country is like social media. I see it on Nextdoor, cruise groups on Facebook, college sports, pro sports, and newspaper editorials.

    The violence in the big cities will spread to smaller cities as all the rebels want to assert their newfound power to blame everyone for their own problems and use government to extract the wealth of the producers and pass it over to them. The powerful forces of the left will mow over any mayor who stands up to them.

    There is a two-tier justice system, and it will only render injustice to our side. The lynch mobs will make sure of it, as we just saw. Those with power and influence will make sure of it, as we saw with the Bidens, the corrupt FBI, the corrupt DOJ, etc.

    People are buying guns to defend themselves. The left says we shouldn’t have guns because we can’t defeat the military. It isn’t the military that will come after us, but the mob. Shoot a black criminal who invades your house and threatens you…the mob will come to your house and break your windows and protest loudly. Shoot a black criminal in self-defense in public…the mob will come to your house and damage it. Insurance often doesn’t cover acts of terrorism. The insurance policy I have for the community band (I am the treasurer) has a terrorism rider but you can only opt in at renewal time each year. The left will use lawfare to punish you, even if you shot someone legally in self defense. They do so by having the victim’s family sue. Even if you are certain to win, it will cost you a lot. After what you have witnessed, do you trust a jury once the mob threatens your town?

    Conservative black people are at equal or greater risk. The left demands loyalty and hates those who leave their plantation. All law abiding black people will suffer as well. The race war will create resentment among white people who will then look upon black people with fear, or worse, creating resentment in return. Yes, the cultural Marxists have it all planned out and their game plan is unfolding as intended. There will be no winners.

    How will it end? Like the Balkans? Like Venezuela? Like the USSR, where the evil left never fully gives up its power and desire to control? Like the Civil War, only with a different outcome? Is it too late for a correction? Have too many generations been ruined in our education system? Time will tell. SNIP

    Your remarks were a very excellent summary.

     

    • #7
  8. Freeven Member
    Freeven
    @Freeven

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):
    Shoot a black criminal who invades your house and threatens you…the mob will come to your house and break your windows and protest loudly. Shoot a black criminal in self-defense in public…the mob will come to your house and damage it.

    If you’re lucky.

    Given this, let’s say you shoot a black man who invades your house and threatens you and your family. Do you call the police afterward, or bury the body in the woods?

    Asking for a friend.

     

    • #8
  9. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    For those who might think my remarks might be an overreaction, they aren’t. It has happened here with Sgt Pentland. AG has an article. We have managed to dodge the bullet until now, except for one day of rioting quickly put down by RCSD last year. Those who follow me know I was a big fan of Live PD and the RCSD. This incident rocks me to the core, both as a fan of law enforcement and RCSD and a retired veteran who frequents Ft Jackson and who has a 10th Mnt Div coin.

    https://amgreatness.com/2021/04/20/defund-the-managerial-regime/

    • #9
  10. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Freeven (View Comment):
    Given this, let’s say you shoot a black man who invades your house and threatens you and your family. Do you call the police afterward, or bury the body in the woods?

    Well, duh! Time for a nice walk in the woods.

    • #10
  11. philo Member
    philo
    @philo

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Freeven (View Comment):
    Given this, let’s say you shoot a black man who invades your house and threatens you and your family. Do you call the police afterward, or bury the body in the woods?

    Well, duh! Time for a nice walk in the woods.

    Or call The Wolf:

     

    • #11
  12. JosePluma Thatcher
    JosePluma
    @JosePluma

    Freeven (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):
    Shoot a black criminal who invades your house and threatens you…the mob will come to your house and break your windows and protest loudly. Shoot a black criminal in self-defense in public…the mob will come to your house and damage it.

    If you’re lucky.

    Given this, let’s say you shoot a black man who invades your house and threatens you and your family. Do you call the police afterward, or bury the body in the woods?

    Asking for a friend.

    From Nextdoor Minneapolis:

    • #12
  13. Guruforhire Member
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    10 years ago.

    • #13
  14. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

     If there are not to be a fair elections in the future do we just go along with the destruction of the Republic?  If there were meaningful independence from Washington as in the original design as Florida has done,  or if forced, real  independence from Washington, California, Minnesota, New York etc. what would the crazies do who run those places?  Are they capable of waking up and allowing real elections?  Would the military go along with suppression of such a move?  Does the risk grow with time?  Similarly, the Chinese are behind them so what is the risk and does that risk grow with time?  Do we wait until the next elections prove it can’t be fixed or should states do what Florida has done, and open dialogue with each other in case free elections are no longer possible and Washington is made into a state as the first step in the destruction.

    • #14
  15. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    For the social media surveillance team: these last few comments are dark humor. You remember dark humor, right? You know, that thing where people laughed before the 21st Century. Laugh, what is this laugh, you say? It was an involuntary reaction evidenced by open mouthed exhalations and sounds that were loud and distinctive. It went out of fashion when the people rightly of course, comrade, became woke. I only mention this because I know that xistory is forbidden nowadays and is full of transgressive writings, so that it is difficult for the block captains to know and comprehend what is going on with people over 21 years of age. 

    • #15
  16. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    I Walton (View Comment):

    If there are not to be a fair elections in the future do we just go along with the destruction of the Republic? If there were meaningful independence from Washington as in the original design as Florida has done, or if forced, real independence from Washington, California, Minnesota, New York etc. what would the crazies do who run those places? Are they capable of waking up and allowing real elections? Would the military go along with suppression of such a move? Does the risk grow with time? Similarly, the Chinese are behind them so what is the risk and does that risk grow with time? Do we wait until the next elections prove it can’t be fixed or should states do what Florida has done, and open dialogue with each other in case free elections are no longer possible and Washington is made into a state as the first step in the destruction.

    This is deserving of a post in itself. It raises the question of whether resistance is sufficient or whether restoration is in order.  The former involves different strategies at different times for various threats. The latter acknowledges a full out commitment to take measures to recapture and rehabilitate. 

    • #16
  17. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    Rodin (View Comment):

    I Walton (View Comment):

    If there are not to be a fair elections in the future do we just go along with the destruction of the Republic? If there were meaningful independence from Washington as in the original design as Florida has done, or if forced, real independence from Washington, California, Minnesota, New York etc. what would the crazies do who run those places? Are they capable of waking up and allowing real elections? Would the military go along with suppression of such a move? Does the risk grow with time? Similarly, the Chinese are behind them so what is the risk and does that risk grow with time? Do we wait until the next elections prove it can’t be fixed or should states do what Florida has done, and open dialogue with each other in case free elections are no longer possible and Washington is made into a state as the first step in the destruction.

    This is deserving of a post in itself. It raises the question of whether resistance is sufficient or whether restoration is in order. The former involves different strategies at different times for various threats. The latter acknowledges a full out commitment to take measures to recapture and rehabilitate.

    Our best resistance is their resistance at the moment. Columbus is either rioting or threatening rioting because police shot a black girl with a knife trying to stab another girl. I haven’t followed the story that much because such stories are repetitive. LeBron has been shamed into removing a tweet. Are the taking this too far? If they are and there is pushback, that will be a good sign. If there is no pushback but only more kneeling at their alter, then I would start urging like-minded states to start talking to each other. Once Dems take over your governor’s office, you are toast. Democrats are eyeing SC. One Dem black woman has announced she will run against Sen Tim Scott next year, so you can bet big Dem money will be behind her. Cunningham, a Dem white male, who Mace just defeated for the Low Country House seat has announced he will run for Governor against McMaster.  They play the long game. They already have a plan to control us. We are still running in circles trying to decide what to do.

    • #17
  18. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    Rodin (View Comment):
    xistory

    Nice :-)

    • #18
  19. GlennAmurgis Coolidge
    GlennAmurgis
    @GlennAmurgis

    As most things awful, it started with Woodrow Wilson 

    His push make the executive branch more powerful than the others  has gotten worse and worse over the next 100+ years

     

    • #19
  20. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    GlennAmurgis (View Comment):

    As most things awful, it started with Woodrow Wilson Abraham Lincoln.

    His push make the executive branch more powerful than the others  has gotten worse and worse over the next 100+ years

    FTFY

    • #20
  21. Ansonia Member
    Ansonia
    @Ansonia

    Arahant (View Comment):

    We knew in 1789. We just didn’t know how long the fall would take.

    Okay, Ricochet exists to help ignorant people like me. So I’ll ask: Why 1789 ?

    And, while I’m at it, what does “FTFY” mean ?

    • #21
  22. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    Ansonia (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    We knew in 1789. We just didn’t know how long the fall would take.

    Okay, Ricochet exists to help ignorant people like me. So I’ll ask: Why 1789 ?

    And, while I’m at it, what does “FTFY” mean ?

    Constitution. 

    • #22
  23. Roderic Reagan
    Roderic
    @rhfabian

    When will we know we have lost our country?  

    Currently interest rates remain low.  If the national debt continues to climb toward 200% of the GDP and interest rates go back up to 4% or so then debt service on the national debt will be larger than the GDP, and high taxes on the wealthy even including a wealth tax won’t make up the difference.  That’s when we’ll know.

    That’s when we’ll see a 20% VAT and 60% taxes on income for all of the middle class.  Owning one small car and a small house will be out of reach for most young families.  Smart phones, flat screen TVs, etc., will toys of the rich.    We will have become Europe.

    Right now neither political party has an interest in putting a brake on this.

    • #23
  24. Roderic Reagan
    Roderic
    @rhfabian

    Arahant (View Comment):

    GlennAmurgis (View Comment):

    As most things awful, it started with Woodrow Wilson Abraham Lincoln.

    His push make the executive branch more powerful than the others has gotten worse and worse over the next 100+ years

    FTFY

    If Lincoln had not acted we’d have no United States now, so I’ll cut him some slack.  By the same token, if FDR didn’t have the power to conduct the war that he did I can’t see how WWII would have come out in our favor.  

    Congress has been far too willing to hand the executive branch power.  That’s been the problem during peace time.

    • #24
  25. JoshuaFinch Coolidge
    JoshuaFinch
    @JoshuaFinch

    Rodin: Think of it another way, say you line up Usain Bolt 50 meters closer to the finish line than everyone else. You fire the pistol and sure enough, Usain Bolt crosses the line first. Do you count that as a win? Do you doubt that for any field of 10 or so runners that Usain Bolt wouldn’t beat them in a 100-meter dash? So Usain wins! Hoorah! What’s the problem?

    The way things are going, if Bolt ran the race and lost to a white competitor, he would still be declared the winner because he’s black.

    • #25
  26. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Ansonia (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    We knew in 1789. We just didn’t know how long the fall would take.

    Okay, Ricochet exists to help ignorant people like me. So I’ll ask: Why 1789 ?

    That was when the current Constitution of the United States was adopted. Wise members of the Founding Fathers knew all along that it would not and could not last forever, but they were willing to give it a good go anyway.

    And, while I’m at it, what does “FTFY” mean ?

    Fixed That For You. Another version is FTFM: Fixed That For Me.

    • #26
  27. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

     I remember after Bill Clinton was acquitted of perjury charges a lot of conservatives were saying that the country was all over.  I’m sure Arahant is right, that people have been declaring it over since the very beginning.

    • #27
  28. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    I remember after Bill Clinton was acquitted of perjury charges a lot of conservatives were saying that the country was all over. I’m sure Arahant is right, that people have been declaring it over since the very beginning.

    And some of us think that was kind of the turning point that led us to where we are now.

    • #28
  29. JoshuaFinch Coolidge
    JoshuaFinch
    @JoshuaFinch

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    I remember after Bill Clinton was acquitted of perjury charges a lot of conservatives were saying that the country was all over. I’m sure Arahant is right, that people have been declaring it over since the very beginning.

    And some of us think that was kind of the turning point that led us to where we are now.

    Or his exploits with Monica that degraded the presidency and brought behavior standards to a new low.

    • #29
  30. Jimmy Carter Member
    Jimmy Carter
    @JimmyCarter

    JoshuaFinch (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    I remember after Bill Clinton was acquitted of perjury charges a lot of conservatives were saying that the country was all over. I’m sure Arahant is right, that people have been declaring it over since the very beginning.

    And some of us think that was kind of the turning point that led us to where we are now.

    Or his exploits with Monica that degraded the presidency and brought behavior standards to a new low.

    Or when He was elected.

    • #30