Will We Ever Escape the Circle of Fear?

 

Apparently, we not only need to be aware of the effects of Covid-19 on our children; I’ve discovered that senior citizens are also trapped in a fear response, and I wonder if they will be able to free themselves from it.

I live in a 55+ community; during the past month residents who are 65+ years of age were able to get the Covid-19 vaccine, both doses. I received my shot earlier in another location. I was hopeful that this step would resolve the fears of many, but I know of three women who are still wearing masks, restricting their interactions with others, and staying home as much as possible.

One of these women is a friend. Yes, she does have co-morbidities. Recently another friend and I invited her to join us for a morning visit in a couple of weeks. She responded that if we met on the lanai, she would come, but if we met indoors, she would have to think about it. I have not talked to her myself, but I’m struggling with whether to ask her this question: “What would need to happen for you to feel you can return to a somewhat normal life?” My concern is that my question is (I believe) a fair and rational one; I anticipate, however, that she would not have a rational answer. I might be putting her on the spot, and I’m not even sure it would stimulate her thinking about how fear is dominating her decision-making process.

I was also at my manicurist (who is sane and practical) who also lives in this development, and she told me a story almost identical to my friend’s. She also told me about a woman who got the vaccine and won’t visit her grandchildren because she believes she carries the virus inside her and is afraid of infecting the children.

I’m not kidding.

* * * * *

From my own understanding, I realize that the vaccines don’t make me immune to the virus, but if I catch it, it will likely be a milder case. I also don’t know at this point how long the vaccine will be effective. Still, we are assessing when we will be going out, with whom, and how often. We only wear masks where they are required, and never outdoors. We’ve talked about taking small trips as soon as I’m fully recovered from my surgery, and I already have a trip to Baltimore on my calendar. So I’m looking at my neighbors and wondering what their thoughts are now about being vaccinated and how their lives will change. I may just do a little survey with them.

* * * * *

There are not only psychological but physiological factors that could affect our reaction to the pandemic and the follow-up period. I decided to investigate the role of the amygdala in our brain in our response to fear, and learned some intriguing facts. There are two systems that can determine our response to Covid-19: the amygdala and the pre-frontal lobes. Dr. Joseph LeDoux, a leading authority on neuroscience and fear, made the following observations:

‘The amygdala is not a fear centre,’ LeDoux said. ‘It’s a system in the brain that detects and responds to danger. But fear is our awareness that we’re in danger.’

But the fear is not the end of the process. The way we respond to the fear is determined by the pre-frontal lobes. The frontal lobes receive the fear message and try to deal with it rationally:

When the threat is mild or moderate, the frontal lobes override the amygdala, and you respond in the most rational, appropriate way. However, when the threat is strong, the amygdala acts quickly. It may overpower the frontal lobes, automatically triggering the fight-or-flight response.

The fight-or-flight response was appropriate for early humans because of threats of physical harm. Today, there are far fewer physical threats, but there are a lot of psychological threats caused by the pressures and stresses of modern life.

When stress makes you feel strong anger, aggression, or fear, the fight-or-flight response is activated. It often results in a sudden, illogical, and irrational overreaction to the situation.

There is no consensus over whether the amygdala responds in the same way if a person experiences a similar stimulus over and over again. For example, when a person is continually dealing with reminders of the virus, especially seeing others wearing masks or repeatedly having to don a mask, I wonder if the amygdala sees the mask as a danger and causes a reaction of fear. Or when a person sees Dr. Fauci, or someone from the CDC, or other “experts” on Covid-19, is it possible that people are continually being charged with fear, and therefore reluctant to “use their pre-frontal lobes” to consider whether they could respond differently?

As long as the government insists on mask-wearing; as long as businesses expect customers to wear masks when we enter the premises; as long as we repeatedly receive the mantra of wearing masks, social distancing, and hand-washing, will the average person be able to free himself from this overwhelming circle of fear?

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  1. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    Manny (View Comment):

    I think for me to feel it was back to an acceptable level of normal the hospitalization rate would have to come down. That’s the real criteria, how many people are getting hospitalized. Now what that number is I don’t know. Perhaps 25% of the recent peak.

    I would agree but for my concern that the data is manipulated. I am unaware of anyone publishing datasets that distinguish between asymptomatic patients who test positive for COVID and should be isolated, but who do not develop typical symptoms, from patients admitted with COVID symptoms followed by testing confirmation. 

    • #31
  2. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Rodin (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    I think for me to feel it was back to an acceptable level of normal the hospitalization rate would have to come down. That’s the real criteria, how many people are getting hospitalized. Now what that number is I don’t know. Perhaps 25% of the recent peak.

    I would agree but for my concern that the data is manipulated. I am unaware of anyone publishing datasets that distinguish between asymptomatic patients who test positive for COVID and should be isolated, but who do not develop typical symptoms, from patients admitted with COVID symptoms followed by testing confirmation.

    I don’t know. I don’t know why large swaths of people would conspire to put out manipulated information. What’s erroneously assessed one could assume the error is consistent and carried out on both ends, the peak and the low numbers. I would think it’s relative. 

    • #32
  3. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    Manny (View Comment):

    Rodin (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    I think for me to feel it was back to an acceptable level of normal the hospitalization rate would have to come down. That’s the real criteria, how many people are getting hospitalized. Now what that number is I don’t know. Perhaps 25% of the recent peak.

    I would agree but for my concern that the data is manipulated. I am unaware of anyone publishing datasets that distinguish between asymptomatic patients who test positive for COVID and should be isolated, but who do not develop typical symptoms, from patients admitted with COVID symptoms followed by testing confirmation.

    I don’t know. I don’t know why large swaths of people would conspire to put out manipulated information. What’s erroneously assessed one could assume the error is consistent and carried out on both ends, the peak and the low numbers. I would think it’s relative.

    That’s a fair point and true. But while the curves should look roughly the same, the point at which you modify public policy/make personal decisions is not. Had we understood (which we did but was not publicized) that the virus was unusually contagious but not unusually lethal for most people we would not have accepted what was done in the name of public health, or at least released the grip sooner. Given its unusual contagion masks are of limited effect and the percent of population exposed and infected is very high. So the number of normal deaths in the presence of (but not a causative factor) from infection dominates the total. This contributes to fear as do overstating hospitalizations for COVID. Overall contagion waxes and wanes, but the embedded curve of true COVID deaths and hospitalization within the reported totals is much smaller and shorter (or at least flatter). 

    • #33
  4. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    @manny, are we there yet?

    • #34
  5. Old Bathos Member
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    I also have co-morbidities. I am vulnerable to Ebola, arsenic, bullets, undiagnosed cancer, falling airplanes and an enormous array of other agents of death. I tell my wife I love her before I fall asleep. I hug my kids and grandkids as often as possible. I try to be grateful for every day because I know that one or more of my co-morbidities will get me eventually.

    The appeal of a fear-centered life has always eluded me. Once we lose sight of the truth that there are only trade- offs, not perfect solutions and we instead resent all risks as unjust impositions, both joy and sanity fade away.

    • #35
  6. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    The saddest thing to me about the past year has been the revealing of the stark partisanship divide in our country, and in our world too, frankly. 

    I have never followed a news event as closely as I followed this pandemic. I knew as soon as I saw it that New York City where my daughter is living and Boston where I live would be hit very hard by it, just because of international travel routes involved.

    When the stories started coming out of Wuhan in November 2019, people became caught up in it–doctors, scientists, government executives, reporters. Everyone was pulling together, and we needed good information. But by the time it began to play out in Lombardy in January 2020, people had already begun to see how it could fit their political agendas. It became impossible to read the news and gain much reliable truth from it. When reporters and government executives and scientists are seeking to manipulate rather than inform, they lose all credibility. 

    For a moment, though, I had some hope for objectivity and truth. But now I’m afraid that they are officially dead. :-) And I think there’s fault on both sides of the divide, although much much less on the reacting right than on the belligerent left. :-) 

    • #36
  7. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    MarciN (View Comment):
    For a moment, though, I had some hope for objectivity and truth. But now I’m afraid that they are officially dead. :-) And I think there’s fault on both sides of the divide, although much much less on the reacting right than on the belligerent left. :-) 

    Well said, @marcin. From our side, though, we mostly just want the facts, the truth; some of that need is realistic and sometimes the other side simply doesn’t know. So they make up facts to suit their agenda, because power is more important than the truth (to them).

    • #37
  8. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):
    For a moment, though, I had some hope for objectivity and truth. But now I’m afraid that they are officially dead. :-) And I think there’s fault on both sides of the divide, although much much less on the reacting right than on the belligerent left. :-)

    Well said, marcin. From our side, though, we mostly just want the facts, the truth; some of that need is realistic and sometimes the other side simply doesn’t know. So they make up facts to suit their agenda, because power is more important than the truth (to them).

    The reason I brought that up is that among my friends, acquaintances, and family members, the fear breaks cleanly between Republicans and Democrats. It’s so dramatically obvious. 

    The Democratic Party and its mass media have behaved shamefully this past year, and they have scared the heck out of their readers and viewers. 

    It’s immoral. When I was kid, sowing calm and hope were the highest ideals for all of us. These people have sown fear, hatred, and panic for the past year. I’m speechless in anger at them for this.  

    • #38
  9. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    MarciN (View Comment):
    The Democratic Party and its mass media have behaved shamefully this past year, and they have scared the heck out of their readers and viewers. 

    I thought that the news organizations would start rolling back the fear level after November. My reasoning was that Biden would have to be shown as the savior, the one who reopened the country, so the media would have to move the fear needle from the pegged position to ease readers into an acceptable level. Instead, they’ve kept the needle pegged as illustrated with the reports about Texas and Mississippi this week.

    • #39
  10. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    I guess it may be a function of geography plus the fact that I haven’t even slowed down working but I pretty much never think about Covid except for when I am going into a store/restaurant that wants me to wear the mask I forgot to bring from the truck.  lol  I talk to people, even around here, who have been pretty isolated and they seem to not have a grasp on how much everything is pretty much back to normal already. 

    • #40
  11. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Rodin (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Rodin (View Comment):

     

    I would agree but for my concern that the data is manipulated. I am unaware of anyone publishing datasets that distinguish between asymptomatic patients who test positive for COVID and should be isolated, but who do not develop typical symptoms, from patients admitted with COVID symptoms followed by testing confirmation.

    I don’t know. I don’t know why large swaths of people would conspire to put out manipulated information. What’s erroneously assessed one could assume the error is consistent and carried out on both ends, the peak and the low numbers. I would think it’s relative.

    That’s a fair point and true. But while the curves should look roughly the same, the point at which you modify public policy/make personal decisions is not. Had we understood (which we did but was not publicized) that the virus was unusually contagious but not unusually lethal for most people we would not have accepted what was done in the name of public health, or at least released the grip sooner. Given its unusual contagion masks are of limited effect and the percent of population exposed and infected is very high. So the number of normal deaths in the presence of (but not a causative factor) from infection dominates the total. This contributes to fear as do overstating hospitalizations for COVID. Overall contagion waxes and wanes, but the embedded curve of true COVID deaths and hospitalization within the reported totals is much smaller and shorter (or at least flatter).

    There is no doubt a we may have over reacted too.  But there is no question people are dying from it.  I wrote about my experience back in May here.  You can read it.  I mentioned several people I know who have died.  Since then I have now known at least two more people who died.  In my post I mention a ICU nurse, Florence, who was an acquaintance, and we frequently communicate about this.  She said she was flooded with patients, and I believe her words were “it was hell.”  If governments have over reacted, that’s a sort of policy that makes sense.  When we’re dealing with this amount of deaths, I think it’s best to be safe.  I can understand the complaints to limited business capacity because that effects the economics.  But I can’t believe all the whining about wearing masks.  Even if masks have very little benefit, so what?  It doesn’t hurt, and maybe it actually makes people feel safer to venture out.  I have to say I am now even in greater awe of the Greatest Generation.  They made huge sacrifices for a goal.  Today, either on the left or the right, this is not anywhere near the greatest generation.  It’s a whiny generation at best.

    • #41
  12. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):
    For a moment, though, I had some hope for objectivity and truth. But now I’m afraid that they are officially dead. :-) And I think there’s fault on both sides of the divide, although much much less on the reacting right than on the belligerent left. :-)

    Well said, marcin. From our side, though, we mostly just want the facts, the truth; some of that need is realistic and sometimes the other side simply doesn’t know. So they make up facts to suit their agenda, because power is more important than the truth (to them).

    The reason I brought that up is that among my friends, acquaintances, and family members, the fear breaks cleanly between Republicans and Democrats. It’s so dramatically obvious.

    The Democratic Party and its mass media have behaved shamefully this past year, and they have scared the heck out of their readers and viewers.

    It’s immoral. When I was kid, sowing calm and hope were the highest ideals for all of us. These people have sown fear, hatred, and panic for the past year. I’m speechless in anger at them for this.

    Let me point out Susan that general public wants safety.  It is my opinion that Donald Trump lost the election when he got cavalier with the Covid seriousness at the first debate with Biden.  His family showed up in the audience without masks and then within a few days Trump got the virus.  That’s where he lost the election.  He may have kept Republicans but he lost the general public.  Biden understood the general public on this.  

    • #42
  13. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Manny (View Comment):
    Let me point out Susan that general public wants safety.

    Actually, if you drill down, Manny, I think they want “zero risk.” And that can create all kinds of complications.

    • #43
  14. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    Let me point out Susan that general public wants safety.

    Actually, if you drill down, Manny, I think they want “zero risk.” And that can create all kinds of complications.

    I don’t know if they expect zero risks but they want policies that acknowledge the risk and are taking the threat seriously.  In talking this over to non political people, they react negatively to those who just shrug it off.

    • #44
  15. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Manny (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    Let me point out Susan that general public wants safety.

    Actually, if you drill down, Manny, I think they want “zero risk.” And that can create all kinds of complications.

    I don’t know if they expect zero risks but they want policies that acknowledge the risk and are taking the threat seriously. In talking this over to non political people, they react negatively to those who just shrug it off.

    It’s tempting to address the issues of covid and try to characterize perceptions. Some folks tend to describe people’s attitudes as falling into the extremes: you are either paranoid with fear and locked down in your home, or you don’t observe any restrictions. There are lots of us, even maybe most of us, who “acknowledge the risk and are taking the threat seriously,”  with a variety of perceptions that are shifting all the time. It’s a tough subject to discuss.

    • #45
  16. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    Let me point out Susan that general public wants safety.

    Actually, if you drill down, Manny, I think they want “zero risk.” And that can create all kinds of complications.

    I don’t know if they expect zero risks but they want policies that acknowledge the risk and are taking the threat seriously. In talking this over to non political people, they react negatively to those who just shrug it off.

    It’s tempting to address the issues of covid and try to characterize perceptions. Some folks tend to describe people’s attitudes as falling into the extremes: you are either paranoid with fear and locked down in your home, or you don’t observe any restrictions. There are lots of us, even maybe most of us, who “acknowledge the risk and are taking the threat seriously,” with a variety of perceptions that are shifting all the time. It’s a tough subject to discuss.

    It’s a tough subject that is fluid, I agree.  To be clear about myself, I am neither filled with fear and I acknowledge the seriousness of what has and continues to happen.  And the difficulty in creating public policy under these circumstances.  I just don’t whine when politicians are over managing.  I understand the difficulties in resolving people’s fears while trying to get the economy moving.  And I do not believe there is a conspiracy to keep these restrictions in place for personal power.  I have no idea what that would gain.  

    • #46
  17. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Manny (View Comment):
    And I do not believe there is a conspiracy to keep these restrictions in place for personal power. I have no idea what that would gain.

    So my question for you is, do you think the government is working toward making this a socialist country? If you do, then over-regulating, restricting our freedoms, making mandates could be preparing us for that outcome. Covid is just one way they are gaining control over our lives. I spoke to a Leftie friend today who couldn’t see how we were moving toward socialism, so she asked me the same question: what would be their motives. 

    I am generally not a paranoid person, but I seldom perceive a benevolent side of the government. I wasn’t always so jaded, but that’s where I am now. I’m so glad we can talk about this, Manny.

    • #47
  18. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    And I do not believe there is a conspiracy to keep these restrictions in place for personal power. I have no idea what that would gain.

    So my question for you is, do you think the government is working toward making this a socialist country? If you do, then over-regulating, restricting our freedoms, making mandates could be preparing us for that outcome. Covid is just one way they are gaining control over our lives. I spoke to a Leftie friend today who couldn’t see how we were moving toward socialism, so she asked me the same question: what would be their motives.

    I am generally not a paranoid person, but I seldom perceive a benevolent side of the government. I wasn’t always so jaded, but that’s where I am now. I’m so glad we can talk about this, Manny.

    I do think that’s just being jaded.  The Covid restrictions basically come down to wearing of masks and limiting the human capacity of space, which effects small businesses.  Trust me local governments are losing a lot of tax revenue from which to fund their pet projects.  Cuts will have to be made at some point.  They want business revenue too.  Am I missing some other restriction?

    • #48
  19. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Manny (View Comment):
    I do think that’s just being jaded. The Covid restrictions basically come down to wearing of masks and limiting the human capacity of space, which effects small businesses. Trust me local governments are losing a lot of tax revenue from which to fund their pet projects. Cuts will have to be made at some point. They want business revenue too. Am I missing some other restriction?

    I don’t think so, but those specific categories affect many people. Every facility has been restricted, occupancy limits are absurd, insisting on masks, shorter hours, and some businesses have closed due to the lack of customers. I think there are some local governments that haven’t thought out the longer-term implications, and then will scream for more and higher taxes, justifying that demand due to the virus and trying to protect us. Virtue signalling. 

    • #49
  20. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Southern Pessimist (View Comment):
    they fear that everyone will say that they have been vaccinated even if they haven’t been.

    Have you seen Cuomo’s vaccine passports?

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/cuomo-covid-passport-sporting-events

    “Papers, please” is coming to a blue state near you . . .

    • #50
  21. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Vance Richards (View Comment):
    I just went for a walk and at one point I noticed an attractive woman coming towards me. As we got closer to each other she walked out into the middle of the street rather than share the sidewalk with me.

    That always happened to me before COVID . . .

    • #51
  22. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    I do think that’s just being jaded. The Covid restrictions basically come down to wearing of masks and limiting the human capacity of space, which effects small businesses. Trust me local governments are losing a lot of tax revenue from which to fund their pet projects. Cuts will have to be made at some point. They want business revenue too. Am I missing some other restriction?

    I don’t think so, but those specific categories affect many people. Every facility has been restricted, occupancy limits are absurd, insisting on masks, shorter hours, and some businesses have closed due to the lack of customers. I think there are some local governments that haven’t thought out the longer-term implications, and then will scream for more and higher taxes, justifying that demand due to the virus and trying to protect us. Virtue signalling.

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    I do think that’s just being jaded. The Covid restrictions basically come down to wearing of masks and limiting the human capacity of space, which effects small businesses. Trust me local governments are losing a lot of tax revenue from which to fund their pet projects. Cuts will have to be made at some point. They want business revenue too. Am I missing some other restriction?

    I don’t think so, but those specific categories affect many people. Every facility has been restricted, occupancy limits are absurd, insisting on masks, shorter hours, and some businesses have closed due to the lack of customers. I think there are some local governments that haven’t thought out the longer-term implications, and then will scream for more and higher taxes, justifying that demand due to the virus and trying to protect us. Virtue signalling.

    Virtue signaling is engrained in politicians of both sides, right and left.  It all depends on which virtue they want to signal…lol.  Limited revenue cuts both ways, potentially cutting government and raising taxes.  Every election cycle there is a fight over the size of government.  

    Look I side with getting the economy too.  But those who criticize Andrew Cuomo for being wrong by expediting the elderly into nursing homes are being hypocritical.  He did what you would normally have done under regular circumstances, and it was horrendously wrong.  Let’s step our way through this virus without horrendous, impulsive decisions and if we have to be on the more cautious side, so be it.  Cuomo should have been on the cautious side.  Anyway, this is the engineer in me talking who performs risk analysis and puts together plans to address risks.  

    • #52
  23. Weeping Inactive
    Weeping
    @Weeping

    Manny (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    And I do not believe there is a conspiracy to keep these restrictions in place for personal power. I have no idea what that would gain.

    So my question for you is, do you think the government is working toward making this a socialist country? If you do, then over-regulating, restricting our freedoms, making mandates could be preparing us for that outcome. Covid is just one way they are gaining control over our lives. I spoke to a Leftie friend today who couldn’t see how we were moving toward socialism, so she asked me the same question: what would be their motives.

    I am generally not a paranoid person, but I seldom perceive a benevolent side of the government. I wasn’t always so jaded, but that’s where I am now. I’m so glad we can talk about this, Manny.

    I do think that’s just being jaded. The Covid restrictions basically come down to wearing of masks and limiting the human capacity of space, which effects small businesses. Trust me local governments are losing a lot of tax revenue from which to fund their pet projects. Cuts will have to be made at some point. They want business revenue too. Am I missing some other restriction?

    The closing of schools and churches. Patients not being allowed to have family with them. Nursing home residents not being allowed to have family visit them.

    • #53
  24. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Weeping (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    And I do not believe there is a conspiracy to keep these restrictions in place for personal power. I have no idea what that would gain.

    So my question for you is, do you think the government is working toward making this a socialist country? If you do, then over-regulating, restricting our freedoms, making mandates could be preparing us for that outcome. Covid is just one way they are gaining control over our lives. I spoke to a Leftie friend today who couldn’t see how we were moving toward socialism, so she asked me the same question: what would be their motives.

    I am generally not a paranoid person, but I seldom perceive a benevolent side of the government. I wasn’t always so jaded, but that’s where I am now. I’m so glad we can talk about this, Manny.

    I do think that’s just being jaded. The Covid restrictions basically come down to wearing of masks and limiting the human capacity of space, which effects small businesses. Trust me local governments are losing a lot of tax revenue from which to fund their pet projects. Cuts will have to be made at some point. They want business revenue too. Am I missing some other restriction?

    The closing of schools and churches. Patients not being allowed to have family with them. Nursing home residents not being allowed to have family visit them.

    Good points.  Schools and churches are part of human capacity.  I agree that putting extra restrictions on churches that are not put on supermarkets is wrong.  That should not be allowed under freedom of religion.  But limiting to whatever percent capacity as businesses is both fair and appropriate.  At this point we’ve learned that children are not at a big risk.  They can go back to school but what about teachers?  They’re human beings too…lol.  Teachers are afraid.  Perhaps they shouldn’t be.  Perhaps they can set up a plexiglass screen in front of the teacher.  I don’t know.  How do you resolve that?  Hopefully with vaccination this will all go away.  I can’t speak to nursing homes being restricted.  I can see that being along the same risk as what Cuomo did.  Let’s get everyone vaccinated and I think most issues will go away.

    • #54
  25. EB Thatcher
    EB
    @EB

    Manny (View Comment):
    He did what you would normally have done under regular circumstances

    Actually @manny – NO.  Given the same situation and before he made a decision, Gov. DeSantis looked at the data that was publicly available at that time (some from Europe, some from the US).  The vast majority of people who were dying were people who were elderly and people who had underlying health problems.  That is the very definition of people in nursing homes.

    So he made the decision to keep COVID patients out of nursing homes.  So Florida did not have 10,000 nursing home patients dying of COVID and he didn’t “have to cover up” the number of deaths – as Cuomo did.

    • #55
  26. KCVolunteer Lincoln
    KCVolunteer
    @KCVolunteer

    Manny (View Comment):

    I do think that’s just being jaded. The Covid restrictions basically come down to wearing of masks and limiting the human capacity of space, which effects small businesses. Trust me local governments are losing a lot of tax revenue from which to fund their pet projects. Cuts will have to be made at some point. They want business revenue too. Am I missing some other restriction?

    You’re missing something. There has been 4 Trillion in Covid spending. Money being funneled to such things as Planned Parenthood from the Federal government. They’re doing their best to keep the socialist programs funded and even expanded. The Democrats will also try to use the “crisis” to help Blue States make good on their pension plans that they have been under funding for decades. Never let a crisis go to waste.

    • #56
  27. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    EB (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    He did what you would normally have done under regular circumstances

    Actually @ manny – NO. Given the same situation and before he made a decision, Gov. DeSantis looked at the data that was

    @eb “NO” -what?  DeSantis looked at the data and did not make what “would normally have [been] done under regular circumstances.”  Unlike Cuomo, DeSantis did not make an impulsive decision.  He made a sound one.  Where is the disagreement?

    • #57
  28. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    KCVolunteer (View Comment):
    There has been 4 Trillion in Covid spending. Money being funneled to such things as Planned Parenthood from the Federal government.

    What?  Where did you get that from?  Some citation please.

    • #58
  29. KCVolunteer Lincoln
    KCVolunteer
    @KCVolunteer

    Manny (View Comment):

    KCVolunteer (View Comment):
    There has been 4 Trillion in Covid spending. Money being funneled to such things as Planned Parenthood from the Federal government.

    What? Where did you get that from? Some citation please.

    Here it is at USATODAY Stimulus check: Critics say Biden’s $1.9T stimulus goes too far (usatoday.com)

    So there’s no question of biased reporting. Read the whole thing if you like.

    Questionable spending

    Auditors at OpenTheBooks.com also cite examples of what they consider dubious spending in the bill, including: $1.5 million earmarked for the Seaway International Bridge connecting New York to Canada; $50 million for family planning groups such as Planned Parenthood; $852 million for civic volunteer agencies such as AmeriCorps, AmeriCorps Vista, and the National Senior Service Corps; and $470 million for libraries, museums, arts and humanities agencies.

    • #59
  30. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    KCVolunteer (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    KCVolunteer (View Comment):
    There has been 4 Trillion in Covid spending. Money being funneled to such things as Planned Parenthood from the Federal government.

    What? Where did you get that from? Some citation please.

    Here it is at USATODAY Stimulus check: Critics say Biden’s $1.9T stimulus goes too far (usatoday.com)

    So there’s no question of biased reporting. Read the whole thing if you like.

    Questionable spending

    Auditors at OpenTheBooks.com also cite examples of what they consider dubious spending in the bill, including: $1.5 million earmarked for the Seaway International Bridge connecting New York to Canada; $50 million for family planning groups such as Planned Parenthood; $852 million for civic volunteer agencies such as AmeriCorps, AmeriCorps Vista, and the National Senior Service Corps; and $470 million for libraries, museums, arts and humanities agencies.

    Gotcha. I wasn’t thinking about the Bill going through now. He used passed tense. Typical Dem Bill. It is atrocious. 

    • #60
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