Contributor Post Created with Sketch. Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. Mostly Fair

 

I’m sure we had a “mostly fair” election this year.

Of course, this year “mostly peaceful” protests have killed a few people and done billions of dollars worth of property damage.

So let’s just look closely, take our time, and make our best effort to assure that every legal vote is counted. That doesn’t seem too much to ask.

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  1. Stad Coolidge

    Henry Racette: So let’s just look closely, take our time, and make our best effort to assure that every legal vote is counted. That doesn’t seem too much to ask.

    It’s really important to count all votes. Who knows how small the difference in the irrelevant “popular vote” would be? The left has set themselves up for reuiqring all votes to be counted with their silly (and unconsitutional) popular vote compact.

    • #1
    • November 11, 2020, at 8:55 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  2. ToryWarWriter Thatcher

    I dont mind counting legal votes.

    Its the illegal ones that get counted that I have a problem with.

    • #2
    • November 11, 2020, at 1:54 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  3. Gary Robbins Reagan

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    I dont mind counting legal votes.

    Its the illegal ones that get counted that I have a problem with.

    The burden of proof to assert that a vote is illegal is one those who would try to over-rule a State’s Secretary of State. I invite Trump to file all the lawsuits he wishes. But then he will be required to enter real evidence instead of innuendo, supposition, and anger. So far, I have seen no evidence that has been plead.

    I went nuts after Trump was elected. I hope that there would be 38 faithless Trump electors. There were two.

    The election is over.

    • #3
    • November 11, 2020, at 2:04 PM PST
    • Like
    • This comment has been edited.
  4. Stad Coolidge

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The burden of proof to assert that a vote is illegal is one those who would try to over-rule a State’s Secretary of State.

    What if the evidence is sufficient to warrant redoing the vote in that state? There’s a difference between some vote mischief and widespread fraud . . .

    • #4
    • November 11, 2020, at 2:11 PM PST
    • Like
  5. Gary Robbins Reagan

    Stad (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The burden of proof to assert that a vote is illegal is one those who would try to over-rule a State’s Secretary of State.

    What if the evidence is sufficient to warrant redoing the vote in that state? There’s a difference between some vote mischief and widespread fraud . . .

    The Constitution does not provide for a revote. If so, believe me I would be pushing for that in 2016.

    • #5
    • November 11, 2020, at 2:12 PM PST
    • Like
  6. Joshua Bissey Coolidge

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    I went nuts after Trump was elected.

    It seems it was permanent.

    Fret not. If Joe loses, you may have a chance to vote for Qusay Biden in 2024.

    • #6
    • November 11, 2020, at 2:14 PM PST
    • 2 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  7. Gary Robbins Reagan

    Joshua Bissey (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    I went nuts after Trump was elected.

    It seems it was permanent.

    Fret not. If Joe loses, you may have a chance to vote for Qusay Biden in 2024.

    I want to be on the record that I will not be voting for Hunter Biden, Donald Trump, or any of Trump’s children in 2024, 2028 or thereafter

    • #7
    • November 11, 2020, at 2:17 PM PST
    • Like
  8. The Reticulator Member

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    I dont mind counting legal votes.

    Its the illegal ones that get counted that I have a problem with.

    The burden of proof to assert that a vote is illegal is one those who would try to over-rule a State’s Secretary of State. I invite Trump to file all the lawsuits he wishes. But then he will be required to enter real evidence instead of innuendo, supposition, and anger. So far, I have seen no evidence that has been plead.

    I went nuts after Trump was elected. I hope that there would be 38 faithless Trump electors. There were two.

    The election is over.

    The burden of proof should be on the Secretary of State. I don’t know that it is, but it should be. You and I should insist on it. A Michigan apple cider producer recently had that part of its operation shut down because of unclean sanitary practices and the fact that it did not have procedures in place to prove that it was maintaining a proper operation. In other words, the burden of proof is on the producer. A lot of government regulation is done that way these days. The IRS puts the burden of proof on the taxpayer. And the burden of proof for an election should be on the electoral officials, who should maintain records to prove the trail of operations, including a visual record of the ballots. I understand that at least in one state, this is not done in spite of federal law. 

    Without that chain of evidence, it is premature to declare that the election is over. It’s not for you to decide, anyway.

    • #8
    • November 11, 2020, at 4:45 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  9. Gary Robbins Reagan

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    I dont mind counting legal votes.

    Its the illegal ones that get counted that I have a problem with.

    The burden of proof to assert that a vote is illegal is one those who would try to over-rule a State’s Secretary of State. I invite Trump to file all the lawsuits he wishes. But then he will be required to enter real evidence instead of innuendo, supposition, and anger. So far, I have seen no evidence that has been plead.

    I went nuts after Trump was elected. I hope that there would be 38 faithless Trump electors. There were two.

    The election is over.

    The burden of proof should be on the Secretary of State. I don’t know that it is, but it should be. You and I should insist on it. A Michigan apple cider producer recently had that part of its operation shut down because of unclean sanitary practices and the fact that it did not have procedures in place to prove that it was maintaining a proper operation. In other words, the burden of proof is on the producer. A lot of government regulation is done that way these days. The IRS puts the burden of proof on the taxpayer. And the burden of proof for an election should be on the electoral officials, who should maintain records to prove the trail of operations, including a visual record of the ballots. I understand that at least in one state, this is not done in spite of federal law.

    Without that chain of evidence, it is premature to declare that the election is over. It’s not for you to decide, anyway.

    It doesn’t work that way, at least not at this time. The Secretary of State makes a determination which can be attacked. The Secretary of State does not have to initially prove the validity of their certifications. The legislature could enact a law for the showing of proof as you outlined, however that is not our system of law.

    I understand that in at least one case, the lawyer attacking the count was chided by the Court. Rule of 11(b) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure provides:

    (b) Representations to the Court. By presenting to the court a pleading, written motion, or other paper—whether by signing, filing, submitting, or later advocating it—an attorney or unrepresented party certifies that to the best of the person’s knowledge, information, and belief, formed after an inquiry reasonable under the circumstances:

    (1) it is not being presented for any improper purpose, such as to harass, cause unnecessary delay, or needlessly increase the cost of litigation;

    (2) the claims, defenses, and other legal contentions are warranted by existing law or by a nonfrivolous argument for extending, modifying, or reversing existing law or for establishing new law;

    (3) the factual contentions have evidentiary support or, if specifically so identified, will likely have evidentiary support after a reasonable opportunity for further investigation or discovery; and

    (4) the denials of factual contentions are warranted on the evidence or, if specifically so identified, are reasonably based on belief or a lack of information.

    The lawyers who are filing these b.s. lawsuits are putting themselves in real peril.

    • #9
    • November 11, 2020, at 4:53 PM PST
    • Like
  10. MichaelKennedy Coolidge

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    I dont mind counting legal votes.

    Its the illegal ones that get counted that I have a problem with.

    The burden of proof to assert that a vote is illegal is one those who would try to over-rule a State’s Secretary of State. I invite Trump to file all the lawsuits he wishes. But then he will be required to enter real evidence instead of innuendo, supposition, and anger. So far, I have seen no evidence that has been plead.

    I went nuts after Trump was elected. I hope that there would be 38 faithless Trump electors. There were two.

    The election is over.

    The NTs are trying the same tactic the Democrats use. Which stands to reason as they have abandoned the Republican Party. They delude themselves that they will somehow take over the new GOP which supports Trump and the new legislators. More and more is coming out about the fraud that these people endorse.

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/391233.php

    The postal inspector, Strasser (what a great German name, huh?) tried to convince the whistleblower, Hopkins, that Hopkins had hallucinated the entire incident, and that if he could just “shave” his memory — whatever that means — he might recall a different version of reality. One that would not put his job in jeopardy.

    “I’m not while I am, actually, I am trying to twist you a little bit because in that believe it or not, your mind will kick in,” Strasser said to Hopkins. �We like to control our mind and when we do that, we can convince ourselves of a memory, but when you’re under a little bit of stress, which is what I’m doing to you purposely, your mind can be a little bit clear.”

    He’s claiming that by stressing a witness with threads can “clear” someone’s mind and cause a better recollection of the past?

    Threatening someone’s job can help clear up the mind so they remember better?

    Nice tactics. They have recorded his two hours of badgering Hopkins who has NOT retracted his affidavit. You know, Gary. Those things they file in court It’s called “Evidence.”

    • #10
    • November 11, 2020, at 4:59 PM PST
    • 5 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  11. MichaelKennedy Coolidge

    Stad (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The burden of proof to assert that a vote is illegal is one those who would try to over-rule a State’s Secretary of State.

    What if the evidence is sufficient to warrant redoing the vote in that state? There’s a difference between some vote mischief and widespread fraud . . .

    Soros spent a lot of money the past few years electing radicals to minor offices like Sec of State and local DAs. Th AZ SoS is one of them.

    • #11
    • November 11, 2020, at 5:01 PM PST
    • 1 like
  12. Gary Robbins Reagan

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The burden of proof to assert that a vote is illegal is one those who would try to over-rule a State’s Secretary of State.

    What if the evidence is sufficient to warrant redoing the vote in that state? There’s a difference between some vote mischief and widespread fraud . . .

    Soros spent a lot of money the past few years electing radicals to minor offices like Sec of State and local DAs. Th AZ SoS is one of them.

    Here is an interesting irony. In 2018, I voted for only a few Democrats. However, the Republican candidate for Secretary of State Steve Gaynor made a point of saying how he was the Trumpist candidate running that year for office. That was a bridge too far for me. I made an exception to my rule that year, and voted for the Democrat, Katie Hobbs.

    I have not heard any Arizona Ricochetti state that the election process in Arizona has been anything less than totally and completely non-partisan and professional.

    • #12
    • November 11, 2020, at 5:10 PM PST
    • Like
  13. The Reticulator Member

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    I dont mind counting legal votes.

    Its the illegal ones that get counted that I have a problem with.

    The burden of proof to assert that a vote is illegal is one those who would try to over-rule a State’s Secretary of State. I invite Trump to file all the lawsuits he wishes. But then he will be required to enter real evidence instead of innuendo, supposition, and anger. So far, I have seen no evidence that has been plead.

    I went nuts after Trump was elected. I hope that there would be 38 faithless Trump electors. There were two.

    The election is over.

    The burden of proof should be on the Secretary of State. I don’t know that it is, but it should be. You and I should insist on it. A Michigan apple cider producer recently had that part of its operation shut down because of unclean sanitary practices and the fact that it did not have procedures in place to prove that it was maintaining a proper operation. In other words, the burden of proof is on the producer. A lot of government regulation is done that way these days. The IRS puts the burden of proof on the taxpayer. And the burden of proof for an election should be on the electoral officials, who should maintain records to prove the trail of operations, including a visual record of the ballots. I understand that at least in one state, this is not done in spite of federal law.

    Without that chain of evidence, it is premature to declare that the election is over. It’s not for you to decide, anyway.

    It doesn’t work that way, at least not at this time. The Secretary of State makes a determination which can be attacked. The Secretary of State does not have to initially prove the validity of their certifications. The legislature could enact a law for the showing of proof as you outlined, however that is not our system of law.

    I understand that in at least one case, the lawyer attacking the count was chided by the Court. Rule of 11(b) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure provides:

    (b) Representations to the Court. By presenting to the court a pleading, written motion, or other paper—whether by signing, filing, submitting, or later advocating it—an attorney or unrepresented party certifies that to the best of the person’s knowledge, information, and belief, formed after an inquiry reasonable under the circumstances:

    (1) it is not being presented for any improper purpose, such as to harass, cause unnecessary delay, or needlessly increase the cost of litigation;

    (2) the claims, defenses, and other legal contentions are warranted by existing law or by a nonfrivolous argument for extending, modifying, or reversing existing law or for establishing new law;

    (3) the factual contentions have evidentiary support or, if specifically so identified, will likely have evidentiary support after a reasonable opportunity for further investigation or discovery; and

    (4) the denials of factual contentions are warranted on the evidence or, if specifically so identified, are reasonably based on belief or a lack of information.

    The lawyers who are filing these b.s. lawsuits are putting themselves in real peril.

    It looks like there’s a lot of wiggle room there. Judges respond to public pressure, and it would be good if any pressure from you helped them wiggle in the right direction.

    • #13
    • November 11, 2020, at 5:11 PM PST
    • 1 like
  14. MarciN Member

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    A lot of government regulation is done that way these days. The IRS puts the burden of proof on the taxpayer. And the burden of proof for an election should be on the electoral officials, who should maintain records to prove the trail of operations, including a visual record of the ballots. I understand that at least in one state, this is not done in spite of federal law. 

    Without that chain of evidence, it is premature to declare that the election is over. It’s not for you to decide, anyway.

    I like this. Good idea. 

    • #14
    • November 11, 2020, at 5:47 PM PST
    • Like
  15. James Gawron Thatcher
    James GawronJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Henry,

    Mostly peaceful and mostly fair are mostly h#rsesh*t.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #15
    • November 11, 2020, at 7:25 PM PST
    • Like
  16. MichaelKennedy Coolidge

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The burden of proof to assert that a vote is illegal is one those who would try to over-rule a State’s Secretary of State.

    What if the evidence is sufficient to warrant redoing the vote in that state? There’s a difference between some vote mischief and widespread fraud . . .

    Soros spent a lot of money the past few years electing radicals to minor offices like Sec of State and local DAs. Th AZ SoS is one of them.

    Here is an interesting irony. In 2018, I voted for only a few Democrats. However, the Republican candidate for Secretary of State Steve Gaynor made a point of saying how he was the Trumpist candidate running that year for office. That was a bridge too far for me. I made an exception to my rule that year, and voted for the Democrat, Katie Hobbs.

    I have not heard any Arizona Ricochetti state that the election process in Arizona has been anything less than totally and completely non-partisan and professional.

    She has tried to block the GOP legislature’s attempts to inquire about the vote issues.

    https://www.abc15.com/news/election-2020/arizona-secretary-of-state-we-wont-need-to-recount-presidential-results

    Soros spent his money wisely, with the help of a few clueless NTs.

    • #16
    • November 12, 2020, at 8:15 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  17. Dbroussa Coolidge

    Perhaps it was 94% fair? 

    • #17
    • November 12, 2020, at 11:39 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  18. Henry Racette Contributor
    Henry Racette

    Dbroussa (View Comment):

    Perhaps it was 94% fair?

    That’s an interesting question. Suppose we asked it this way?

    “If this election was as fair as the protests were peaceful, would we feel confident of the outcome?”

    • #18
    • November 12, 2020, at 11:41 AM PST
    • 1 like
  19. James Gawron Thatcher
    James GawronJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Dbroussa (View Comment):

    Perhaps it was 94% fair?

    That’s an interesting question. Suppose we asked it this way?

    “If this election was as fair as the protests were peaceful, would we feel confident of the outcome?”

    Henry,

    Along that line of thought, if the same media which declared burning cities and two billion dollars of property damage “mostly peaceful”, is now declaring Biden the winner, what level of confidence do you have in the reality of their second declaration.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #19
    • November 12, 2020, at 12:13 PM PST
    • Like
  20. Henry Racette Contributor
    Henry Racette

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Dbroussa (View Comment):

    Perhaps it was 94% fair?

    That’s an interesting question. Suppose we asked it this way?

    “If this election was as fair as the protests were peaceful, would we feel confident of the outcome?”

    Henry,

    Along that line of thought, if the same media which declared burning cities and two billion dollars of property damage “mostly peaceful”, is now declaring Biden the winner, what level of confidence do you have in the reality of their second declaration.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Right?

    Personally, I’m reasonably confident that Biden actually won. But I’m also reasonably confident that there was a lot of misbehavior and fraud, and I’d like it to be thoroughly explored.

    There’s plenty of time to declare the old scoundrel the winner and announce the Biden/Harris-Harris/Biden presidency.

    • #20
    • November 12, 2020, at 12:47 PM PST
    • Like
  21. James Gawron Thatcher
    James GawronJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Dbroussa (View Comment):

    Perhaps it was 94% fair?

    That’s an interesting question. Suppose we asked it this way?

    “If this election was as fair as the protests were peaceful, would we feel confident of the outcome?”

    Henry,

    Along that line of thought, if the same media which declared burning cities and two billion dollars of property damage “mostly peaceful”, is now declaring Biden the winner, what level of confidence do you have in the reality of their second declaration.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Right?

    Personally, I’m reasonably confident that Biden actually won. But I’m also reasonably confident that there was a lot of misbehavior and fraud, and I’d like it to be thoroughly explored.

    There’s plenty of time to declare the old scoundrel the winner and announce the Biden/Harris-Harris/Biden presidency.

    Henry,

    They call them pivot counties. The pivot counties went for Obama in 2008 and 2012. These pivot counties have predicted the last ten election winners. In 2020, Trump won in the pivot counties and was stronger in them than in 2016. I believe Donald Trump won the election. We are seeing an information age “Black Hand”.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #21
    • November 12, 2020, at 1:12 PM PST
    • Like
  22. Gary Robbins Reagan

    Arizona’s Republican Attorney General has said that Biden won Arizona. He denies any voter fraud. From Arizona’s largest newspaper the Arizona Republic (formerly the Arizona Republican):

    “Attorney General Mark Brnovich on Wednesday dismissed ongoing claims of election fraud in Arizona, arguing that ‘if indeed there was some great conspiracy’ to steal votes from fellow Republicans, ‘it apparently didn’t work.’

    “What happened instead was simple and legitimate, Brnovich said during an appearance on Fox Business: Voters split their tickets, voting for Democrats in the presidential and U.S. Senate races and for Republicans down-ballot.

    “‘In Arizona, there was a prediction that the (Republican-controlled) Legislature would flip. It didn’t,’ said Brnovich, the No. 2 Republican in the state behind the governor. ‘There were some congressional districts that supposedly leaned Democrat. They didn’t flip. The county recorder here who oversees elections went from Democrat to Republican. The county attorney remained Republican.’

    “‘That’s the reality,’ he said. ‘There is no evidence, there are no facts that would lead anyone to believe that the election results will change.'”

    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/11/arizona-attorney-general-mark-brnovich-dismisses-election-fraud-claims/6258889002/

    • #22
    • November 12, 2020, at 2:11 PM PST
    • Like
  23. The Reticulator Member

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    “‘That’s the reality,’ he said. ‘There is no evidence, there are no facts that would lead anyone to believe that the election results will change.’”

    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/11/arizona-attorney-general-mark-brnovich-dismisses-election-fraud-claims/6258889002/

    If he really believe that and expected people to believe it, he would encourage investigations and recounts in order to demonstrate his own confidence in the integrity of the electoral process. Such investigations and recounts are expensive, but they would be worth it at twice the expense. 

    • #23
    • November 12, 2020, at 2:38 PM PST
    • 1 like
  24. The Reticulator Member

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    If he really believe that and expected people to believe it, he would encourage investigations and recounts in order to demonstrate his own confidence in the integrity of the electoral process. Such investigations and recounts are expensive, but they would be worth it at twice the expense. 

    And besides, Biden wants more government spending in order to stimulate the economy. This can be a down payment.

    • #24
    • November 12, 2020, at 2:39 PM PST
    • Like
  25. Gary Robbins Reagan

    CNN just called Arizona for Biden. I think that the only two states left are Georgia and North Carolina.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/politics/biden-wins-arizona/index.html

    • #25
    • November 12, 2020, at 8:27 PM PST
    • Like
  26. The Reticulator Member

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    CNN just called Arizona for Biden. I think that the only two states left are Georgia and North Carolina.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/politics/biden-wins-arizona/index.html

    Which government office does CNN report to?

    • #26
    • November 12, 2020, at 9:20 PM PST
    • Like
  27. Joshua Bissey Coolidge

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    CNN just called Arizona for Biden. I think that the only two states left are Georgia and North Carolina.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/politics/biden-wins-arizona/index.html

    Which government office does CNN report to?

    If Trump loses, they will be the government. 

    • #27
    • November 12, 2020, at 9:51 PM PST
    • Like
  28. Stad Coolidge

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The Constitution does not provide for a revote.

    Not being explicitly stated in the Constitution hasn’t stopped judges from making rulings before. I’d love to see the conservatives on SCOTUS give the left a little taste of a “living” Constitution.

    Bottom line: The Constitution doesn’t provide for a lot of things. However, a lot of things are just so . . .

    • #28
    • November 14, 2020, at 6:21 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  29. Stad Coolidge

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    The burden of proof to assert that a vote is illegal is one those who would try to over-rule a State’s Secretary of State.

    What if the evidence is sufficient to warrant redoing the vote in that state? There’s a difference between some vote mischief and widespread fraud . . .

    The Constitution does not provide for a revote. If so, believe me I would be pushing for that in 2016.

    And furthermore, where the Constitution is silent, it means the states and the people have the power . . .

    • #29
    • November 15, 2020, at 7:42 AM PST
    • 1 like