Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. What Democracy Does to Us… Part I

 

Some poor soul posted this on Medium:

“I wrote earlier about trying to express my reasons to my dad in a calm and intellectual manner. I actually thought I had been calm and well-reasoned. I thought I might even be making progress.

Today I found out he put a Trump sign in his yard.

I got pissed. Really pissed. And I sent him and my mom a text message. Hands shaking, tears in eyes. This is what it said:

Due to the signs in the yard, the kids and I will not be down. The current occupant of the White House is preaching hate and violence, endangering the lives and safety of many of my friends. This is not acceptable to me at all. There is a complete disregard for women, minorities, science, ethics, and morality. Please consider if you support Trump that much. Because I hate him that much. I wanted to be upfront and honest about my feelings.

And then I went for a walk to calm down. And the more I thought about it, the more I agreed with the message. At this point, it is not acceptable to me. You can vote for whom you wish. But I can choose who I surround myself with. I love my dad, but I can’t be around him until he understands how vital I believe this election to be and what is truly at stake. It is not easy. But it was necessary. Now to see what fallout occurs.”

Trump simply hasn’t been that bad, and I’m no MAGA hat. I’m a real Conservative. I think the Union has been too big for about 200 years. I think the South should have been allowed to leave in 1860. I think progressivism is responsible for public policies like Jim Crow. Heck, I even question the wisdom of the first war for American independence. My opinions are unpopular and weird. My opinions are actually Conservative. I’m not a Trump fan but I’m also not a fan of contemporary Conservativism. Not because of Trump but more because of Bush and the NeoCons. That’s where I’m at. I have no real political side in any of this, my politics lost a long (long) time ago (in a galaxy far far away). And that’s not even really a joke. The NeoCons actually think the Empire are the good guys and the Rebel Alliance is bad. 😱

But that being said, Trump simply hasn’t been that bad. He’s accomplished very little in terms of policy and his signature policy measure, the wall, has gone nowhere. So why does this guy think that Trump is worth crying over? Worth getting this upset over?

I think there’s a good chance he’s just not well. There’s a good chance he simply doesn’t have enough tying him to the real world. But I think it’s at least as likely that this is just what democracy does to us. It makes us unreasonable, pretentious, and unbearable. Democracy makes people worse.

Yeah, that’s the kind of Conservative I am, I’m a democracy skeptic. This is one of the dirty little secrets that mainstream Conservativism and the NeoCons don’t want you to know: Conservativism doesn’t believe in democracy.

Now anybody on the left will laugh at this point and say “that’s right, we’ve always known you guys were fascists!”

To which my response is “the fascists were Democrats.” And no I don’t mean that the DNC are Nazis, like Dinesh D’Souza. I mean the fascists were into democracy. Hitler (who wasn’t really a pure fascist anyway) was democratically elected. Mussolini had to relinquish his power before the Allies got to him. The fascists were a part of the modern experiment with democracy, not some kind of aberration. The tyrants of the last 200 years are a fundamental part of democracy, not something democracy fights against but something democracy creates. Classical political theory predicted that revolutions like the one in France, in the 1790s, would eventually lead to Napoleon style leaders. Democracy leads to tyranny and violence.

I don’t have a problem with democracy because I’m a crypto-fascist, I have problems with democracy because I think democracy logically leads to Stalin, Hitler, and George W. Bush (no he’s not THAT bad, but what he symbolizes is similar). In other words, if you hate Donald Trump, if you really truly believe he’s literally Hitler (he isn’t) I think, really, you hate democracy. Because there would be no demagogues without democracy.

And that’s why this guy was crying over Trump, not because of anything Trump has actually done, but because of his demagoguery. And he’s got some reason to be concerned. Trump’s rhetoric is pretty bad, but crying? Shaking? Not visiting your parents because of a sign?

Then again this guy probably cries when he goes into Whole Foods. He probably cries when Rachel Maddow (another demagogue) comes on. Crying and shaking over nothing is probably his “thing.”

But maybe he’s not a snowflake, maybe this is really where we are right now. Otherwise normal healthy people are waylaid by the Orange bad man. If that’s right then democracy is a mistake. Democracy makes us worse.

Democracy is a complicated concept. It has more than one meaning, but the standard definition, the one most people use, is a very bad idea. The beginning of democratic skepticism is Plato:

“Plato (Republic, Book VI) argues that democracy is inferior to various forms of monarchy, aristocracy and even oligarchy on the grounds that democracy tends to undermine the expertise necessary to properly governed societies. In a democracy, he argues, those who are expert at winning elections and nothing else will eventually dominate democratic politics. Democracy tends to emphasize this expertise at the expense of the expertise that is necessary to properly governed societies. The reason for this is that most people do not have the kinds of talents that enable them to think well about the difficult issues that politics involves. But in order to win office or get a piece of legislation passed, politicians must appeal to these people’s sense of what is right or not right. Hence, the state will be guided by very poorly worked out ideas that experts in manipulation and mass appeal use to help themselves win office.” –Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

Plato was absolutely 100% correct. No one can look at Donald Trump, Barack Obama, or most of our democratically elected leaders and honestly say that this doesn’t apply. Career politicians make bad policy and are experts at getting elected. Democracy is a bad leader factory because it isn’t actually about leadership. It’s about getting elected.

But it’s even worse than that. Plato’s logic would seem to imply that in some sense democracy doesn’t work. That the people want good leaders in theory but the system encourages bad leaders to take advantage. And while that is true Bryan Caplan has shown, In the Myth of the Rational Voter, that democracy actually does work pretty well. Not if you want good public policy, the masses are ignorant and they tend to vote terribly. Democracy isn’t good at producing good results. But democracy is good at producing the results that majorities actually want. We have this belief that our leaders lie to us then when they get in office they don’t keep their promises. And that does happen but they still basically make the policies that are popular. Caplan’s big example here is protective tariffs. Virtually all economists think that trade deficits basically don’t matter and that tariffs are really a tax on your own people. Basically tariffs are a bad idea. Yet democracies do them over and over. Democracy does actually work in the sense that the people mostly get what they want, and since the people are stupid the results aren’t good. Which is the reason for the double down on public education, the populace needs to be educated. If they’re better educated they vote better. Except that this simply doesn’t work. Our education system can’t fix stupid, and from a Christian perspective, it really can’t fix the more serious problem: sin. People are sinful, for the Christian that’s the real problem with democracy.

But this version of democracy is the most simplistic understanding, literally rule by the demos, by the masses of people. This understanding of democracy has so many theoretical problems beyond the ones Plato and Caplan have pointed out it’s ludicrous that anyone takes democracy seriously at all. It’s simply false that everyone’s voice should count the same. As I’ve already pointed out, most people are very stupid and incapable of running their own lives very well. Most people (probably 51% at least) would be better off as some kind of slave, where their decisions were already made for them (I’m only partially joking about this). I’m not excluding myself from that 51%, I do an okay job at “adulting” but I would be better off in a bunch of ways as a slave.

The best Christian defense of Democracy comes from CS Lewis. And it tweaks the basic definition somewhat.

“I am a democrat because I believe in the Fall of Man. I think most people are democrats for the opposite reason. A great deal of democratic enthusiasm descends from the ideas of people like Rousseau, who believed in democracy because they thought mankind so wise and good that everyone deserved a share in the government. The danger of defending democracy on those grounds is that they’re not true. And whenever their weakness is exposed, the people who prefer tyranny make capital out of the exposure… The real reason for democracy is just the reverse. Mankind is so fallen that no man can be trusted with unchecked power over his fellows. Aristotle said that some people were only fit to be slaves. I do not contradict him. But I reject slavery because I see no men fit to be masters.”

The real problem with slavery is with the masters, not the slaves. And the idea is that democracy is a check on the masters…and I want to agree with Lewis here. But I think history is bearing out that democracy creates more tyrants than it disposes of. There is no reason for demagoguery without democracy.

Demagogue: a political leader who seeks support by appealing to the desires and prejudices of ordinary people rather than by using rational argument.

What reason does a Monarch have to demagogue? He/she doesn’t need to. But if you want democratically based power you have no choice. You can’t campaign on the right thing, you have to campaign on the popular thing. The thing that will get you elected, and keep you elected.

I think that’s what really scares our crying man: the people who like what Trump says. He’s worried that Nazis are about to jump out from the bushes and start burning crosses again. And if you’re a fan of anecdotal evidence I guess that has actually kind of happened…but not really. If anything Trump’s lack of popularity shows how controversial even pale echoes of genuine racism are in contemporary America. The crypto Nazis, if there are still thousands and thousands of them, have not really come out of hiding.

But as many right-wing Twitter trolls have gleefully pointed out the “Nazis” did sorta reappear under Trump, they’re just the leftist SJWs who burnt Portland to the ground and are doing naked yoga in public. It’s been four years of Trump, and while parts of America are certainly ruined right now that’s been mostly due to leadership from the left, and more importantly the actions of leftist mobs. Yet crying man isn’t crying over that, he’s crying over words from the bad man.

This post has gone on much longer than I intended it to, and I will do a follow up where I detail some “solutions” to our current democratic problems. But for now it’s important to see that if all we mean by democracy is rule by the masses it’s hard to find anything good to say about this political theory. And the irony is that the solution put forward is always more democracy, especially by the people in power. Look at the response to 2016. Most Americans seemed to be under the impression that the President was elected directly by the people of all the states by popular vote en masse. Obama recently reiterated this in a speech saying that electing the president is the only election Americans all do together. But 4 years ago many people had the rude awakening that the electoral college is actually what elects the president, not all of us together, but rather the states elect the president. The response to this realization has been to get rid of the electoral college. It’s anti-democratic, and according to the media, it produced the wrong result. But Clinton wouldn’t have been the right result, the truth is that democracy gave us two bad choices and neither result was good. And again Trump simply hasn’t been that bad. What has been really bad under Trump is the left. They’ve become entirely insufferable because they’re starting to realize that America actually has a lot more checks on democracy. Their march up the mountain was halted in 2016, and it broke their brains.

The democratic solution to democratic problems is always more democracy. More books favoring democracy. More documentaries about voter suppression. More voting! More tweeting from very ignorant celebrities about how we can’t let our democracy be stolen! Just more democracy! We don’t have enough of it, we gotta have more!

Caplan rightly calls this democratic fundamentalism. Like all fundamentalism, it doubles down on its fundamental no matter what. No evidence, no argument can dissuade Captain Ahab that the white whale of democracy is the highest good possible. No matter how miserable it makes Ahab, or the crying man, they are going to get that democracy or die trying.

Paul Gottfried has been addressing this problem for years. He calls it the god word of liberal democracy. But its very hard to define what constitutes liberal democracy, and it gets thrown around carelessly all the time. Really liberal democracy just means the good, it has very little content except as a term of political-religious devotion. This mirrors the left’s use of fascism. They never mean actual fascism because that went virtually extinct after WWII. When they use the word fascist they just mean the bad stuff, the bad people. Liberal democracy is the good, even if its not liberal or democratic, and fascism is the bad even when the “fascists” are actually libertarians. This is what democracy does to us, it makes us worse. It makes it more difficult for us to actually think freely because our very minds and conviction are brought into warfare. We are brought into the political whirlwind along with all the people who have actual privilege and power, this is a place where power is what matters most of all and the truth can thrown out in place of politics.

Next time I’ll try to explain how we might be able to “fix” our democratic systems, but sadly most of those solutions are already in place vis a vis the constitution and the American political tradition. But we’ve been running from those things for a long time.

Published in Elections
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  1. PHCheese Member

    For all intents and purpose our choice is Trump or Biden. In 2016 it was Trump or Clinton. In my book Trump is the only choice. Biden is a ghost. I wouldn’t know for whom I am actually voting.

    • #1
    • September 20, 2020, at 6:08 PM PDT
    • 9 likes
  2. kedavis Member

    Interesting. My first thought was from:

    And then I went for a walk to calm down. And the more I thought about it, the more I agreed with the message. At this point, it is not acceptable to me. You can vote for whom you wish. But I can choose who I surround myself with. I love my dad, but I can’t be around him until he understands how vital I believe this election to be and what is truly at stake. It is not easy. But it was necessary. Now to see what fallout occurs.”

    Why doesn’t this person – he or she or xhe or whatever – consider the possibility that this election could be just as important to their father? Indeed, my assumption would be that anyone who puts any such sign in their yard, thinks it’s more serious than most people, who don’t.

    • #2
    • September 20, 2020, at 6:11 PM PDT
    • 17 likes
  3. JoelB Member

    I love my dad, but I can’t be around him until he understands how vital I believe this election to be and what is truly at stake.

    Because politics is more important than one’s closest family ties. (NOT)

    • #3
    • September 20, 2020, at 6:32 PM PDT
    • 13 likes
  4. kedavis Member

    JoelB (View Comment):

    I love my dad, but I can’t be around him until he understands how vital I believe this election to be and what is truly at stake.

    Because politics is more important than one’s closest family ties. (NOT)

    So the father should vote for Biden because junior insists? Otherwise there will be no peace?

    Clearly it’s junior that needs to cool his/her/xhis/xher jets.

    • #4
    • September 20, 2020, at 6:35 PM PDT
    • 13 likes
    • This comment has been edited.
  5. Concretevol Thatcher

    Wait……this was a GUY having this emotional breakdown??? That pretty much says it all right there.

    • #5
    • September 20, 2020, at 6:48 PM PDT
    • 15 likes
  6. Saint Augustine Member

    A.C. Gleason:

    I think there’s a good chance he’s just not well. There’s a good chance he simply doesn’t have enough tying him to the real world. But I think it’s at least as likely that this is just what democracy does to us. It makes us unreasonable, pretentious, and unbearable. Democracy makes people worse.

    The way we do it, it sure does.

    With some checks and balances, some fundamental rights protected by written law and not vulnerable to democratic attack (a Jonah Goldberg point, as I recall), with a religious and moral people, and with a functional education system–democracy would be a lot better.

    Democracy is a complicated concept. It has more than one meaning, but the standard definition, the one most people use, is a very bad idea. The beginning of democratic skepticism is Plato:

    “Plato (Republic, Book VI) argues that democracy is inferior to various forms of monarchy, aristocracy and even oligarchy on the grounds that democracy tends to undermine the expertise necessary to properly governed societies. In a democracy, he argues, those who are expert at winning elections and nothing else will eventually dominate democratic politics. Democracy tends to emphasize this expertise at the expense of the expertise that is necessary to properly governed societies. The reason for this is that most people do not have the kinds of talents that enable them to think well about the difficult issues that politics involves. But in order to win office or get a piece of legislation passed, politicians must appeal to these people’s sense of what is right or not right. Hence, the state will be guided by very poorly worked out ideas that experts in manipulation and mass appeal use to help themselves win office.” –Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

    A very simple way of reading the Republic. But probably not wrong.

    Our education system can’t fix stupid, and from a Christian perspective it really can’t fix the more serious problem: sin. People are sinful, for the Christian that’s the real problem with democracy.

    Yes.

    They’ve become entirely insufferable because they’re starting to realize that America actually has a lot more checks on democracy. Their march up the mountain was halted in 2016, and it broke their brains.

    Well said.

    • #6
    • September 20, 2020, at 7:07 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  7. JoelB Member

    kedavis (View Comment):

    JoelB (View Comment):

    I love my dad, but I can’t be around him until he understands how vital I believe this election to be and what is truly at stake.

    Because politics is more important than one’s closest family ties. (NOT)

    So the father should vote for Biden because junior insists? Otherwise there will be no peace?

    Clearly it’s junior that needs to cool his/her/xhis/xher jets.

    No, No, No, No. Perhaps my sarcasm was unclear. There’s clearly something wrong with Junior.

    • #7
    • September 20, 2020, at 7:31 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  8. Flicker Coolidge

    A.C. Gleason: So why does this guy think that Trump is worth crying over?

    He? Why did he write that in a 22-year-old’s girl’s voice?

    • #8
    • September 20, 2020, at 8:08 PM PDT
    • 8 likes
  9. kedavis Member

    Flicker (View Comment):

    A.C. Gleason: So why does this guy think that Trump is worth crying over?

    He? Why did he write that in a 22-year-old’s girl’s voice?

    22? I was thinking 12 or 13.

    • #9
    • September 20, 2020, at 8:20 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  10. Henry Castaigne Member

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    A.C. Gleason: So why does this guy think that Trump is worth crying over?

    He? Why did he write that in a 22-year-old’s girl’s voice?

    22? I was thinking 12 or 13.

    22 year olds are about 13 years olds a generation ago. 

    • #10
    • September 20, 2020, at 8:37 PM PDT
    • 9 likes
  11. Flicker Coolidge

    I sort of agree, but name a couple other countries you’d rather live in. I won’t quote Churchill, but what other country is even 1% better? Where on earth has a better system of government with a happier, freer people??

    • #11
    • September 20, 2020, at 8:40 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  12. Arahant Member

    A.C. Gleason: I think the Union has been too big for about 200 years. I think the South should have been allowed to leave in 1860. I think progressivism is responsible for public polices like Jim Crow. Heck I even question the wisdom of the first war for American independence. My opinions are unpopular and weird.

    What’s unpopular or weird about that? Also:

    • #12
    • September 20, 2020, at 8:41 PM PDT
    • 10 likes
  13. Henry Castaigne Member

    Arahant (View Comment):

    A.C. Gleason: I think the Union has been too big for about 200 years. I think the South should have been allowed to leave in 1860. I think progressivism is responsible for public polices like Jim Crow. Heck I even question the wisdom of the first war for American independence. My opinions are unpopular and weird.

    What’s unpopular or weird about that? Also:

    Well if the slaves had guns and a right to vote, I wouldn’t have minded the severing of the Union so much.

    • #13
    • September 20, 2020, at 8:54 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  14. kedavis Member

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    A.C. Gleason: I think the Union has been too big for about 200 years. I think the South should have been allowed to leave in 1860. I think progressivism is responsible for public polices like Jim Crow. Heck I even question the wisdom of the first war for American independence. My opinions are unpopular and weird.

    What’s unpopular or weird about that? Also:

    Well if the slaves had guns and a right to vote, I wouldn’t have minded the severing of the Union so much.

    The way things were, they wouldn’t have had the right to vote at first. But if they had guns, they might have achieved it.

    • #14
    • September 20, 2020, at 9:08 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  15. TBA Coolidge

    A.C. Gleason: Our education system can’t fix stupid

    Our education system manufactures stupid. 

    • #15
    • September 20, 2020, at 9:09 PM PDT
    • 11 likes
  16. Flicker Coolidge

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    A.C. Gleason: So why does this guy think that Trump is worth crying over?

    He? Why did he write that in a 22-year-old’s girl’s voice?

    22? I was thinking 12 or 13.

    Well, you’re right. I really was thinking 19 or 20, but then again I gave her credit for being 18 before she started having kids. My bad.

    • #16
    • September 20, 2020, at 9:40 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
  17. MeandurΦ Member
    MeandurΦJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    JoelB (View Comment):

    I love my dad, but I can’t be around him until he understands how vital I believe this election to be and what is truly at stake.

    Because politics is more important than one’s closest family ties. (NOT)

    Politics is religion for the godless.

    • #17
    • September 20, 2020, at 9:52 PM PDT
    • 8 likes
  18. Hank Rhody, Freelance Philosop… Contributor

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Wait……this was a GUY having this emotional breakdown??? That pretty much says it all right there.

    You ever get the feeling that Pecos Bill was right to give up on humanity and go back to being a coyote?

    • #18
    • September 21, 2020, at 12:24 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  19. Henry Castaigne Member

    Hank Rhody, Freelance Philosop… (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Wait……this was a GUY having this emotional breakdown??? That pretty much says it all right there.

    You ever get the feeling that Pecos Bill was right to give up on humanity and go back to being a coyote?

    When don’t I get that feeling?

    • #19
    • September 21, 2020, at 12:29 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  20. Arahant Member

    Hank Rhody, Freelance Philosop… (View Comment):
    You ever get the feeling that Pecos Bill was right to give up on humanity and go back to being a coyote?

    Ayup!

    • #20
    • September 21, 2020, at 12:30 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  21. Hank Rhody, Freelance Philosop… Contributor

    A.C. Gleason: What reason does a Monarch have to demagogue? He/she doesn’t need to. But if you want democratically based power you have no choice. You can’t campaign on the right thing, you have to campaign on the popular thing. The thing that will get you elected, and keep you elected.

    The Soviet Union made an awful lot of propaganda (or a lot of awful propaganda) for a society that didn’t need to demagogue. Monarchs still need to demagogue, it’s just that occasionally they can do the unpleasant but right thing and tell the common voter to suck it up, buttercup.

    A.C. Gleason: This post has gone on much longer than I intended it to

    Don’t sweat it. Happens to all of us.

    The American experiment is nearing the end of it’s life. Take a collection of philosophers. Let them design a new government on a new continent with the freest people yet seen on this Earth to people it. Give them every advantage nature can give them. How long will it take for democracy to die in darkness?

    • #21
    • September 21, 2020, at 12:36 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  22. Arahant Member

    Hank Rhody, Freelance Philosop… (View Comment):
    How long will it take for democracy to die in darkness?

    Usually a couple of hundred years.

    • #22
    • September 21, 2020, at 12:42 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  23. Hank Rhody, Freelance Philosop… Contributor

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Hank Rhody, Freelance Philosop… (View Comment):
    How long will it take for democracy to die in darkness?

    Usually a couple of hundred years.

    Have you checked your watch recently?

    • #23
    • September 21, 2020, at 12:44 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  24. Arahant Member

    Hank Rhody, Freelance Philosop… (View Comment):
    Have you checked your watch recently?

    Trust me, I’ve been saying we were in the last century since before you were born.

    • #24
    • September 21, 2020, at 12:47 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  25. kedavis Member

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Hank Rhody, Freelance Philosop… (View Comment):
    Have you checked your watch recently?

    Trust me, I’ve been saying we were in the last century since before you were born.

    It can’t be the end yet! I’m still here!

    • #25
    • September 21, 2020, at 10:28 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  26. Full Size Tabby Member

    As others have said in many places, democracy is not the principal principle of the United States. Individual liberty is. 

    Democracy is a tool to help preserve individual liberty. Because democracy eventually turns into mob rule, the Founding Fathers set up mechanisms to limit democracy and the problems that democracy brings. We the American people corrupted one of those mechanisms by changing the manner of selecting U.S. Senators from state selection to direct election. Congress and we the people acquiesced as we let the courts claim legislative and policy-making roles. Congress abdicated its role as legislative body in favor of letting Presidents vastly exceed the Constitutional role of President.

    Many of today’s particular divisions and hysteria is because too many people now consider the President a de facto King or Emperor in possession of vast powers that the President has no basis claiming. Now many want to remove one more check on the excesses of democracy by eliminating the Electoral College.

    Democracy is not the ultimate goal. But too many people seem to think it is.

    • #26
    • September 21, 2020, at 10:28 AM PDT
    • 12 likes
  27. Full Size Tabby Member

    kedavis (View Comment):

    JoelB (View Comment):

    I love my dad, but I can’t be around him until he understands how vital I believe this election to be and what is truly at stake.

    Because politics is more important than one’s closest family ties. (NOT)

    So the father should vote for Biden because junior insists? Otherwise there will be no peace?

    Clearly it’s junior that needs to cool his/her/xhis/xher jets.

    A.C. Gleason:

    Some poor soul posted this on Medium

    “I wrote earlier about trying to express my reasons to my dad in a calm and intellectual manner. I actually thought I had been calm and well-reasoned. I thought I might even be making progress.

    Today I found out he put a Trump sign in his yard.

    I got pissed. Really pissed. And I sent him and my mom a text message. Hands shaking, tears in eyes. This is what it said:

    Due to the signs in the yard, the kids and I will not be down. The current occupant of the White House is preaching hate and violence, endangering the lives and safety of many of my friends. This is not acceptable to me at all. There is a complete disregard for women, minorities, science, ethics, and morality. Please consider if you support Trump that much. Because I hate him that much. I wanted to be upfront and honest about my feelings.

    And then I went for a walk to calm down. And the more I thought about it, the more I agreed with the message. At this point, it is not acceptable to me. You can vote for whom you wish. But I can choose who I surround myself with. I love my dad, but I can’t be around him until he understands how vital I believe this election to be and what is truly at stake. It is not easy. But it was necessary. Now to see what fallout occurs.”

    Junior needs someone to help him examine who’s really exhibiting hate. 

    • #27
    • September 21, 2020, at 10:35 AM PDT
    • 9 likes
  28. kedavis Member

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    JoelB (View Comment):

    I love my dad, but I can’t be around him until he understands how vital I believe this election to be and what is truly at stake.

    Because politics is more important than one’s closest family ties. (NOT)

    So the father should vote for Biden because junior insists? Otherwise there will be no peace?

    Clearly it’s junior that needs to cool his/her/xhis/xher jets.

    A.C. Gleason:

    Some poor soul posted this on Medium

    “I wrote earlier about trying to express my reasons to my dad in a calm and intellectual manner. I actually thought I had been calm and well-reasoned. I thought I might even be making progress.

    Today I found out he put a Trump sign in his yard.

    I got pissed. Really pissed. And I sent him and my mom a text message. Hands shaking, tears in eyes. This is what it said:

    Due to the signs in the yard, the kids and I will not be down. The current occupant of the White House is preaching hate and violence, endangering the lives and safety of many of my friends. This is not acceptable to me at all. There is a complete disregard for women, minorities, science, ethics, and morality. Please consider if you support Trump that much. Because I hate him that much. I wanted to be upfront and honest about my feelings.

    And then I went for a walk to calm down. And the more I thought about it, the more I agreed with the message. At this point, it is not acceptable to me. You can vote for whom you wish. But I can choose who I surround myself with. I love my dad, but I can’t be around him until he understands how vital I believe this election to be and what is truly at stake. It is not easy. But it was necessary. Now to see what fallout occurs.”

    Junior needs someone to help him examine who’s really exhibiting hate.

    And like I wrote earlier, Junior is assuming that the election isn’t just as important to his father, perhaps even for the same reasons. Junior just assumes that his father is being… unnecessarily “difficult,” or something…

    • #28
    • September 21, 2020, at 11:06 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  29. OmegaPaladin Moderator

    Mr. Gleason,

    I trust you would prefer rule under my benevolent dictatorship to this messy democratic republic? Never mind chicken, I’ll have roast antifa in every pot!

    • #29
    • September 21, 2020, at 11:25 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  30. TBA Coolidge

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Mr. Gleason,

    I trust you would prefer rule under my benevolent dictatorship to this messy democratic republic? Never mind chicken, I’ll have roast antifa in every pot!

    And pot in every antiafa! 

    • #30
    • September 21, 2020, at 2:04 PM PDT
    • 5 likes