Inconvenient Truths

 

As George Will points out in his book, The Conservative Sensibility:

America’s poverty problem is not one of material scarcities but of abundant bad behavior. Data demonstrate that there are three simple behavioral rules for avoiding poverty: finish high school, produce no child before marrying or before age twenty. Only 8 percent of families who conform to all three rules are poor; 79 percent of those who do not conform are poor.

None of this is particularly new; we’ve all heard and read the numbers before. Yet, in today’s world, to breathe these empirical truths is “racist”; it’s “blaming the victims.” Victims of what? Of failed progressive policies that dumb down education at the behest of teachers’ unions that send huge donations to progressive politicians? Of failed progressive welfare policies that reward young women for producing babies outside of marriage? Of failed progressive employment policies that penalize companies for hiring low-skilled workers? Of failed progressive housing policies that make low-income housing scarce?

No, of course not. Again, to even suggest such truths is racist. The only politically correct “truth” is that “systemic racism,” not behavior, causes poverty and inequality. The only politically correct solution, then, is to spend scarce resources that have alternative uses to fight systemic racism while continuing to spend scarce resources on progressive policies that create and sustain poverty; that is, on policies that create the inequality progressives claim is the result of systemic racism.

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  1. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Dr. Lorentz is no closed slater just as Thomas Sowell is no blank slater. This article from Quillette I think describes his beliefs. 

    Plomin, a professor of behavioral genetics at King’s College London, went first, summarizing the evidence from twin and adoption studies—his area of expertise, having designed and overseen many of those studies himself. Using slides, which is unusual in a public debate, he drew the audience’s attention to two key findings that have emerged from this research—that siblings raised together are as different from each other as siblings raised apart, and identical twins raised separately are as similar to each other as identical twins brought up in the same home. In short, genetic differences between people influence how different they are from one another, but parenting seems to have little effect.

    Plomin made it clear he wasn’t claiming genetic differences accounted for all the differences in how children turn out. He estimated that genes explain about half the variance when it comes to the Big Five personality traits, with the environment accounting for the other half. However, that doesn’t mean nurture is as important as nature. The salient environmental inputs are not those things we normally think of as “nurture,” such as parents and schools. Rather, what matters, according to Plomin, are random, serendipitous events—what he refers to as the “non-shared” environment and which are, by definition, non-systematic.

    Quoting from Blueprint: How DNA Makes Us Who We Are, his recently-published book, Plomin said: “Parenting matters, but it doesn’t make a difference.” He acknowledged that this left him feeling slightly ambivalent about the motion—”Parenting doesn’t matter”—and was at pains to make clear that he wasn’t providing deadbeat dads with a license to goof off. Parenting matters in the sense that how parents behave affects their children’s well-being in the moment, if not over the course of their lifetimes, and we have a duty to look after our children and make sure they’re happy, at least while they’re under our care. It also matters in the sense that it affects what will be among the most important relationships of our lives. Finally, he acknowledged that parents have an important role to play in helping children discover and cultivate those talents that they’ve been genetically endowed with.

    But parenting doesn’t affect how children will turn out when it comes to key psychological traits like conscientiousness—the ones correlated with important life outcomes, such as educational attainment and socio-economic status. If we think helicopter parenting will boost our children’s IQ or increase their chances of getting into Harvard, we’re kidding ourselves. So parenting matters, but not in the way that overanxious, middle-class parents imagine, according to Plomin. However, he did add one important caveat: Terrible parents—those guilty of extreme neglect or abuse—can have a long term, negative impact on their children.

    continued

    • #31
  2. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Continuation

    The evidence that I have read reaffirms Plomin’s work. I’ve never yet heard of any good counterargument that is based on empirical evidence.

    Moreover, Plomin’s work follows Arthur Brooks to a T.

    Arthur Brooks, who has studied happiness with a monomania, has constantly suggested that 50-60% of someone’s happiness level is genetic. Almost every study of I.Q. and nearly every other trait suggests this ratio. As fraternal twin studies show, there are huge differences in outcome based on someones genetic characteristics. Monozygotic twins that were raised by completely different families show remarkable similarities.

    Genetics matter immensely. Of course, being malnourished or abused also matters. But constantly over decades worth of data, (that even many of the researchers don’t like at all) suggest that genetic differences cannot be overcome.

    These two videos with Jordan Peterson do a pretty good of summing up the data and why it’s so important to understand.

    Linda Gottfredson also does a great job of discussing the flaws with Thomas Sowell’s reference to the I.Q.s of biracial black and German children. In essence, the black-Americans who had children in Germany with the same I.Q. levels as those of regular American white children were not an accurate sampling of the black-American genome in reference to I.Q. There used to be a nice youtube video of this but it was taken down.

     

    • #32
  3. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Science is complicated.

    • #33
  4. drlorentz Member
    drlorentz
    @drlorentz

    Richard Fulmer (View Comment):

    drlorentz (View Comment):

    Richard Fulmer (View Comment):

    drlorentz (View Comment):
    However, the OP implies that environment is the dominant, or even sole, determinant.

    I imply no such thing. I’m clearly stating that the welfare state created perverse incentives and people responded to those incentives.

    Incentives are part of the environment. Is this point unclear to you or are you simply agreeing with me in an oblique manner?

    I understand that incentives are part of the environment. I also understand that the environment – along with innate abilities – affects how people behave. Even though you give lip service to the idea that environment matters, you reject all examples of people responding to changes in their environment. It’s sort of reverse projection. You’re claiming that Thomas Sowell and I are “blank slaters” and all the while your a “closed slater” – children pop out of the womb fully programed and that’s the end of it

    For the very last time, no. I acknowledged the effect of environment numerous times, even giving specific examples of its importance and specifically addressing your instances (e,g., North Korea) and explaining how they differ from weaker interventions. I also gave an example of a weaker intervention (Head Start) which is a proven failure. 

    Your response to this reasoning and evidence? Crickets. 

    Furthermore it is clear that you, and others on this thread, are woefully ignorant of a large body of research and knowledge accumulated over decades of careful study. One can lead a horse to water…

    • #34
  5. Richard Fulmer Inactive
    Richard Fulmer
    @RichardFulmer

    The case against Head Start is not dispositive.  What the studies show is that the program has benefits, but that the benefits are short-lived.  Once the children leave the program and go into public school systems, any “head start” they’ve gained is dissipated within a year or two.  It could be that Head Start simply doesn’t work, or it could be that public schools are so bad and so soul-crushing that they overwhelm any gains, or it could be that the “black culture” of bullying people who “act white” overwhelms any gains.

    Your North Korea “evidence” was little more than conjecture that the North Korean government applied dysgenic policies.

    Moreover, you basically ignore the evidence that I presented showing that black culture changed very radically in a very short time – one or two decades at most.  You don’t even bother to respond to the idea that paying women to have children outside of wedlock might increase the number of fatherless children – presumably because that would be “blank-slate co-religionist” thinking.

    • #35
  6. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    drlorentz (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    drlorentz (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    drlorentz (View Comment):
    The reverse doesn’t work: providing an enriched environment will not do much to overcome genetic disadvantage. This is likely why Head Start was a disastrous failure.

    What are you saying here??

    I didn’t realize it was necessary to connect those dots any more than they are already. Take a moment to review the analogy of stature and nutrition in comment #14. That was the “explainer.”

    Cliff Notes version: you can’t fix stupid.

    It sounds like you’re saying blacks are intellectually inferior.

    It sounds like you are obsessed with race.

    Nowhere did I mention race in this set of comments or in the article about Head Start that I linked. Has it occurred to you that Head Start is not a race-based program? Probably not.

    I don’t think I’m obsessed with race.  But the conversation made multiple references to Koreans so I thought that race was at issue at least in part; and the race issue is being pushed hard, and is the basis of saturating conversations these days.

    But I’m glad to hear that you are talking about all races in one, or no races at all, when discussing the socio-economically deprived and their intellectual potentials.

    • #36
  7. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    It seems to me that there are four determinants to happiness and other intellect or psychological characteristics.

    Genetics, which are relatively stable and inherited.

    Epi-genetics, which are more variable and are inherited.

    Early stimulation, upbringing and culture.

    And that God says that He visits the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

    • #37
  8. Richard Fulmer Inactive
    Richard Fulmer
    @RichardFulmer

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Quoting from Blueprint: How DNA Makes Us Who We Are, his recently-published book, Plomin said: “Parenting matters, but it doesn’t make a difference.” He acknowledged that this left him feeling slightly ambivalent about the motion—”Parenting doesn’t matter”—and was at pains to make clear that he wasn’t providing deadbeat dads with a license to goof off. Parenting matters in the sense that how parents behave affects their children’s well-being in the moment, if not over the course of their lifetimes, and we have a duty to look after our children and make sure they’re happy, at least while they’re under our care. It also matters in the sense that it affects what will be among the most important relationships of our lives. Finally, he acknowledged that parents have an important role to play in helping children discover and cultivate those talents that they’ve been genetically endowed with.

    But parenting doesn’t affect how children will turn out when it comes to key psychological traits like conscientiousness—the ones correlated with important life outcomes, such as educational attainment and socio-economic status. If we think helicopter parenting will boost our children’s IQ or increase their chances of getting into Harvard, we’re kidding ourselves. So parenting matters, but not in the way that overanxious, middle-class parents imagine, according to Plomin. However, he did add one important caveat: Terrible parents—those guilty of extreme neglect or abuse—can have a long term, negative impact on their children.

    I don’t buy this.  There are too many studies showing that children from single-parent homes are far more likely to drop out of school, use drugs, end up in prison, and commit suicide than are children from intact families.  How does Plomin account for this?

    • #38
  9. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Richard Fulmer (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Quoting from Blueprint: How DNA Makes Us Who We Are, his recently-published book, Plomin said: “Parenting matters, but it doesn’t make a difference.” He acknowledged that this left him feeling slightly ambivalent about the motion—”Parenting doesn’t matter”—and was at pains to make clear that he wasn’t providing deadbeat dads with a license to goof off. Parenting matters in the sense that how parents behave affects their children’s well-being in the moment, if not over the course of their lifetimes, and we have a duty to look after our children and make sure they’re happy, at least while they’re under our care. It also matters in the sense that it affects what will be among the most important relationships of our lives. Finally, he acknowledged that parents have an important role to play in helping children discover and cultivate those talents that they’ve been genetically endowed with.

    But parenting doesn’t affect how children will turn out when it comes to key psychological traits like conscientiousness—the ones correlated with important life outcomes, such as educational attainment and socio-economic status. If we think helicopter parenting will boost our children’s IQ or increase their chances of getting into Harvard, we’re kidding ourselves. So parenting matters, but not in the way that overanxious, middle-class parents imagine, according to Plomin. However, he did add one important caveat: Terrible parents—those guilty of extreme neglect or abuse—can have a long term, negative impact on their children.

    I don’t buy this. There are too many studies showing that children from single-parent homes are far more likely to drop out of school, use drugs, end up in prison, and commit suicide than are children from intact families. How does Plomin account for this?

    Keep in mind that it isn’t an either or proposition. 50% of every outcome is genetic. That leaves half of outcomes to the environment. It does not seem unreasonable to suggest that children of single parent households come from a genetic stock that is more susceptible to crime and criminality.   

    I still want to the disciples of Thomas Sowell to hash out the genetic studies with the charter school studies. There does seem to be a disparity in two data-centric approaches to viewing the world. 

    • #39
  10. Richard Fulmer Inactive
    Richard Fulmer
    @RichardFulmer

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    I still want to the disciples of Thomas Sowell to hash out the genetic studies with the charter school studies.

    There are some studies that may serve the purpose.  The New York City charter schools accept applicants on the basis of a lottery.  Even after being picked, however, the parents have to jump through a lot of hoops (attend meetings, agree to monitor their kids’ work, agree to show up to meetings, etc.).  So, the parents have to be motivated.  The studies followed children who made it into the charter schools and the children who were entered in the lottery but weren’t selected.  They found that both sets of children did better than their peers, though the ones that made it into the charter schools did better.  So, that suggests that the charter schools really do a better job.

    Now, here’s the tricky part.  Can we assume that at least some of the children who were entered in the lottery have low IQs?  If so, then charter schools work.  I vaguely remember a podcast (City Block?) with the founder of the charter schools, and I think she said that they do have special needs kids.

    • #40
  11. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Is there anyone who’d like to counter the proposition that: 

    about two thirds, say 40 to 80%, of the variation of intelligence across the population of the western world is attributable with high confidence to genetic inheritance.

    • #41
  12. MISTER BITCOIN Inactive
    MISTER BITCOIN
    @MISTERBITCOIN

    Steven Pinker, in his book, How the Mind Works, has a chapter called Family Values which discusses child development and personalities. 

    Variations in personality

    1. genetic/hereditary = 50%
    2. parental environment/home = 5%
    3. peer group = 45%

    The biggest influence that parents have on their children is at the moment of conception.

    Judith Harris has amassed evidence that children everywhere are socialized by their peer group, not by their parents.

     

    • #42
  13. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Steven Pinker, in his book, How the Mind Works, has a chapter called Family Values which discusses child development and personalities.

    Variations in personality

    1. genetic/hereditary = 50%
    2. parental environment/home = 5%
    3. peer group = 45%

    The biggest influence that parents have on their children is at the moment of conception.

    Judith Harris has amassed evidence that children everywhere are socialized by their peer group, not by their parents.

     

    Sounds like a good argument for private schools where peer groups can be controlled to some degree.

    • #43
  14. MISTER BITCOIN Inactive
    MISTER BITCOIN
    @MISTERBITCOIN

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    MISTER BITCOIN (View Comment):

    Steven Pinker, in his book, How the Mind Works, has a chapter called Family Values which discusses child development and personalities.

    Variations in personality

    1. genetic/hereditary = 50%
    2. parental environment/home = 5%
    3. peer group = 45%

    The biggest influence that parents have on their children is at the moment of conception.

    Judith Harris has amassed evidence that children everywhere are socialized by their peer group, not by their parents.

     

    Sounds like a good argument for private schools where peer groups can be controlled to some degree.

    Peer groups in school but also outside school: neighbors, sports, boy/girl scouts, church, summer camp, etc.

     

    • #44
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