The McCloskey Frameup

 
Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner

Falsified evidence? It’s only a problem if you get caught!

The latest on the St. Louis couple facing weapons charges for defending their home after protestors charged through their gates, from KSDK Channel 5:

The gun Patricia McCloskey waved at protesters was inoperable when it arrived at the St. Louis police crime lab, but a member of Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner’s staff ordered crime lab experts to disassemble and reassemble it and wrote that it was “readily capable of lethal use” in charging documents filed Monday, 5 On Your Side has learned.

I’m glad to hear someone is on our side. Also, the Missouri Governor has condemned the prosecution and said he would pardon the McCloskeys if needed.

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  1. JosePluma Coolidge
    JosePluma
    @JosePluma

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    A lawyer friend once told me, “If you ever get in an accident driving drunk, immediately take your keys out of the ignition.” That supposedly makes it difficult to prove you were operating the vehicle. I guess lawyers know that if that if you are suspected of a gun crime, that you should flip the firing pin/spring *before* someone comes around to collect evidence. Was that little silver gun operational at the time it was waved around? We’ll never know, but we have to assume it was not.

    Even better.

    Run into a bar or drive home and take drink. They can no longer prove your were intoxicated while driving.

    I knew a lawyer that kept a bottle of mouth wash hanging from his mirror. If he got pulled over he said to wash your mouth out with it before the cop gets there, but where the cop can see you do it. Then any alcohol in your system can be blamed on the mouthwash.

    Yea, that works every time.  I guarantee it.

    • #61
  2. JosePluma Coolidge
    JosePluma
    @JosePluma

    Arthur Beare (View Comment):

    ctlaw (View Comment):

    That’s the least problematic thing, assuming the prosecutor did not hide the fact of the repair. There presumably will be a dispute about the meaning of “readily”.

    If this goes forward, we’ll get all sorts of legal theories for liability. I can easily imagine a theory that says she is criminally liable for casually waiving the gun around vs. carefully pointing it at the closest or otherwise most threatening demonstrator(s).

    Actually, isn’t just “brandishing” a firearm itself a crime? It doesn’t have to be loaded, it doesn’t have to be functional, and I think it doesn’t even have to be real:

    Exactly, if it is done illegally.  If someone is attacking you and you brandish a firearm at them, that’s not illegal.

    • #62
  3. Eeyore Member
    Eeyore
    @Eeyore

    Kozak (View Comment):

    That broke the gate marked “No trespass” and were on private property.

    But, but Kozak, the charging document said the protesters walked through the gate, not broke it down. they were like totally  peaceful.

    • #63
  4. Eeyore Member
    Eeyore
    @Eeyore

    JosePluma (View Comment):

    Yeah, that works every time, I guarantee it.

    Yeah, that works every time, I guarantee it.

    Yeah, that works every time, I guarantee it.

    So whatda YOU know about this DUI stuff?

    Oh, wait, yea … umm … er … uh…

    • #64
  5. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Sisyphus (hears Xi laughing) (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Didn’t the state AG throw out the case? He did have something to say. . .

    He has publicly opposed the prosecution, which guarantees that an appeal would succeed since he would be the de facto prosecutor at the appellate level.

    So the local DA is going to have his show trial, to damage these people , knowing they are going to walk on the appeal.

    The process is the punishment as Mark Steyn says.

    The prosecutor, she not he, is already under investigation for the wrongful prosecution of the former Republican governor. Gov. Eric Greitens was forced out by this lawfare, since the establishment GOP did not want the integrity and strength of a former Navy SEAL.

    • #65
  6. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Kozak (View Comment):

    PHenry (View Comment):

    Isn’t this tampering with evidence and obstruction of justice? Shouldn’t someone be prosecuted?

    Like Clinton, Strozk, Holder, etc, etc,etc,etc…..

    The prosecutor is already under criminal investigation for another high profile prosecution.

    • #66
  7. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Richard Fulmer (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):
    The McCloskeys made a lawyer’s mistake.

    What was their mistake? To protect themselves and their home when people were trespassing and threatening them with bodily harm?

    Morally, their mistake was to manipulate the evidence after the fact. Intellectually, it was to do so without knowledge of the context in which their manufactured evidence would be interpreted.

    I don’t know that they did that, of course, nor do I believe it in the customary sloppy sense. But the evidence in context tells that story.

    Actually, the real evidence in full context is that this prosecutor, a Democrat, is already under investigation for prosecutorial misconduct in the prosecution of the former Republican governor. There are others involved in that prosecution also facing criminal charges. So, it is more likely that her crooked team is continuing its crooked conduct.

    • #67
  8. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    JosePluma (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    A lawyer friend once told me, “If you ever get in an accident driving drunk, immediately take your keys out of the ignition.” That supposedly makes it difficult to prove you were operating the vehicle. I guess lawyers know that if that if you are suspected of a gun crime, that you should flip the firing pin/spring *before* someone comes around to collect evidence. Was that little silver gun operational at the time it was waved around? We’ll never know, but we have to assume it was not.

    Even better.

    Run into a bar or drive home and take drink. They can no longer prove your were intoxicated while driving.

    Yea, that works every time. I guarantee it.

    It worked at least 1 time I know of.

    • #68
  9. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Eeyore (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    That broke the gate marked “No trespass” and were on private property.

    But, but Kozak, the charging document said the protesters walked through the gate, not broke it down. they were like totally peaceful.

    Yeah. Totally.

    • #69
  10. ctlaw Coolidge
    ctlaw
    @ctlaw

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Talk about preference bias. I think the McCloskeys are innocent of any crimes, but this willful embrace of the ridiculous is embarrassing.

    Suppose a lefty thug, who happened to be a lawyer, had waved a pistol around and been charged with a crime for it. Suppose later the pistol was seized and found to be mis-assembled. Suppose another lefty thug, also a lawyer, had waved a rifle around and also been charged. When the rifle was seized, no ammunition for it was found.

    I, and I think most of you, would assume that the lefty thugs had hidden their ammo and mis-assembled the pistol to deflect the coming charges. After all, do you think they were really stupid enough to try to face down the mob with an empty rifle and disabled handgun? I do not.

    I think that extending any other interpretation to the evidence in plain sight (sorry, Adam, but these things really are in plain sight) is to reach so hard that one risks discrediting other arguments. Let’s stick to the argument that the McCloskeys had every right, and a moral duty, to defend their home with their guns, and let’s hope that the courts don’t assume the obvious and take a hard line on them for trying to fool people.

    Lawyers. The McCloskeys made a lawyer’s mistake.

     If there was no prior court case in which the pistol was an exhibit…, wouldn’t the prosecutors have charged the McCloskeys with making false statements?

    And if the McCloskeys were going to tamper, wouldn’t they tamper with both?

    clearly, Patricia lacked the skill to field strip her pistol. Mark should have disabled his own rifle and re-enabled the pistol. Then, while Patricia was serving her prison sentence, Mark could be banging his 25-year-old secretary.

    • #70
  11. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    ibn Abu (View Comment):

    I don’t believe the McCloskeys committed any crime. They were entitled to defend themselves and their property.

    I don’t get this obsession with the readiness condition of the pistol. Where I live brandishing a fake gun while committing a crime is essentially the same crime as brandishing a real one. I find it hard to believe it’s much different in Missouri. Either the threat of force on their part was justified or it wasn’t.

    As presented in the charging documents, there was no justification for the McCloskeys to threaten to use force.

    According to the charging documents, the McCloskeys “immediately” confronted two individuals (and “other protestors” – no mention that the “other” was hundreds) who had merely walked through the gate (as others noted, no mention that the protestors first tore down the gate) and were walking along the street. No mention of the physical and verbal threats by the protestors. No mention that some protestors may have left the street and walked onto the McCloskey’s property. The charging documents imply but do not explicitly state that Mr. McCloskey went to the street to confront the protestors (a false implication). 

    On its own, that the prosecutor had to reassemble the pistol to make it operable might not be a big deal. But, combined with other details, it becomes part of a pattern of conduct by the prosecutor that illustrates bad motives in the charging process. 

    • #71
  12. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    JosePluma (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    A lawyer friend once told me, “If you ever get in an accident driving drunk, immediately take your keys out of the ignition.” That supposedly makes it difficult to prove you were operating the vehicle. I guess lawyers know that if that if you are suspected of a gun crime, that you should flip the firing pin/spring *before* someone comes around to collect evidence. Was that little silver gun operational at the time it was waved around? We’ll never know, but we have to assume it was not.

    Even better.

    Run into a bar or drive home and take drink. They can no longer prove your were intoxicated while driving.

    I knew a lawyer that kept a bottle of mouth wash hanging from his mirror. If he got pulled over he said to wash your mouth out with it before the cop gets there, but where the cop can see you do it. Then any alcohol in your system can be blamed on the mouthwash.

    Yea, that works every time. I guarantee it.

    Really?  I thought it sounded stupid but you never know with law.  

    • #72
  13. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Terry Mott (View Comment):
    I would not wish to confront a mob with a non-functional weapon, myself. What if someone calls my bluff?

    I agree.  It’s dumb not to be ready for the worst.

    Terry Mott (View Comment):
    But the fact that I find that to be a foolish choice doesn’t mean it’s illegal to do so, nor that it should be illegal.

    Using an unloaded or non-functioning weapon or replica is illegal and should be.  Just because a bank reobber uses a replica doesn’t mean the tellers and customers aren’t terrified, and doesn’t get him off the hook for committing a crime.  In the McCloskey’s case, their “brandishing” weapons was justified because they were responding to a direct threat.  If they did have to use dealy force, brandishing the weapon first shows they gave the rioters an opportunity to back off, which they did.

    The prosecutor who files charges against these two should be publically tarred and feathered (actually a very painful punishment) and run out of town.  Better yet, DOX his address . . .

    • #73
  14. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Kozak (View Comment):

    JosePluma (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    A lawyer friend once told me, “If you ever get in an accident driving drunk, immediately take your keys out of the ignition.” That supposedly makes it difficult to prove you were operating the vehicle. I guess lawyers know that if that if you are suspected of a gun crime, that you should flip the firing pin/spring *before* someone comes around to collect evidence. Was that little silver gun operational at the time it was waved around? We’ll never know, but we have to assume it was not.

    Even better.

    Run into a bar or drive home and take drink. They can no longer prove your were intoxicated while driving.

    Yea, that works every time. I guarantee it.

    It worked at least 1 time I know of.

    Was it a case where the prosecutors wanted it to work?  

    • #74
  15. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    I read where the McCloskeys had used the pistol in court as a prop and had to get the firing pin disabled to do so. 

    Based on their handling skills or, rather, the lack thereof, neither one of them is capable of doing that on their own. (Note: Keep your booger picker off the bang switch!) 

    And speaking of being picky… one does not “field strip” a firearm in one’s home. When you disassemble a weapon for routine post-fire cleaning or repair it’s just stripping. When you’re away from that environment, it’s a field strip. 

    • #75
  16. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    EJHill (View Comment):

    I read where the McCloskeys had used the pistol in court as a prop and had to get the firing pin disabled to do so.

    Based on their handling skills or, rather, the lack thereof, neither one of them is capable of doing that on their own. (Note: Keep your booger picker off the bang switch!)

    And speaking of being picky… one does not “field strip” a firearm in one’s home. When you disassemble a weapon for routine post-fire cleaning or repair it’s just stripping. When you’re away from that environment, it’s a field strip.

    Maybe they like to practice in their back yard?

    I am woeful butterfingers when it comes to everything, including guns. 

    Fortunately, I married me an army girl and she can field strip an M-16. 

    • #76
  17. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    JosePluma (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    A lawyer friend once told me, “If you ever get in an accident driving drunk, immediately take your keys out of the ignition.” That supposedly makes it difficult to prove you were operating the vehicle. I guess lawyers know that if that if you are suspected of a gun crime, that you should flip the firing pin/spring *before* someone comes around to collect evidence. Was that little silver gun operational at the time it was waved around? We’ll never know, but we have to assume it was not.

    Even better.

    Run into a bar or drive home and take drink. They can no longer prove your were intoxicated while driving.

    Yea, that works every time. I guarantee it.

    It worked at least 1 time I know of.

    Was it a case where the prosecutors wanted it to work?

    Nope. Dude had an accident, left the scene, went to a bar.  When the cops arrived he was drinking, said he had anxiety and needed a drink to “calm him down”.  They did get him for the accident and leaving the scene, had to drop the drunk driving charge because they couldn’t prove “beyond a reasonable doubt” he was over the limit when he was behind the wheel.

    Not surprised.  I had to testify in  a drunk driving case ( which was on Court TV).  Guy was driving drunk lost control hit and hit a tree, causing his dad to die.  In the hospital he clearly stated he was driving.  When he was told his dad had died the  A hole said ” thats how dad would have wanted to go”. (Uh, huh. I’m sure as his dad was ejected from the vehicle though the windshield the last thought he had was “this is how I want to die”).

    Was offered a plea deal for 1 year in prison. He decided to fight it. At the trial the guy claimed his dad was driving. All the physical evidence pointed to sonny as the driver. Witness statements from me and a nurse.   A key point in my testimony was noting he had a bruise on his L shoulder, across his abdomen and to his L hip, indicated a seat belt mark on the L side of the vehicle.  Prosecution also had a photo from the next day clearly demonstrating the bruise.    Apparently  a couple of the jurors watched too much TV and wanted to know why the cops didn’t take fingerprints or DNA from the steering wheel to prove who was driving. So the jury let him walk.

    • #77
  18. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Bryan G. Stephens: I am woeful butterfingers when it comes to everything, including guns. 

    Good to know. I will not go into surgery or the foxhole with you then. 

    • #78
  19. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens: I am woeful butterfingers when it comes to everything, including guns.

    Good to know. I will not go into surgery or the foxhole with you then.

    Foxhole with my wife.

    • #79
  20. ctlaw Coolidge
    ctlaw
    @ctlaw

    Hearings set for August 31.

    • #80
  21. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Bryan G. Stephens: Foxhole with my wife.

    I don’t believe I’ve ever received such an offer before. But on the safe side we better stick with our own wives…

    • #81
  22. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):

    I read where the McCloskeys had used the pistol in court as a prop and had to get the firing pin disabled to do so.

    Based on their handling skills or, rather, the lack thereof, neither one of them is capable of doing that on their own. (Note: Keep your booger picker off the bang switch!)

    And speaking of being picky… one does not “field strip” a firearm in one’s home. When you disassemble a weapon for routine post-fire cleaning or repair it’s just stripping. When you’re away from that environment, it’s a field strip.

    Maybe they like to practice in their back yard?

    I am woeful butterfingers when it comes to everything, including guns.

    Fortunately, I married me an army girl and she can field strip an M-16.

    No wonder you’re such a good husband.  Hehe . . .

    • #82
  23. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens: Foxhole with my wife.

    I don’t believe I’ve ever received such an offer before. But on the safe side we better stick with our own wives…

    I confess, I don’t even know what it means.

    • #83
  24. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Flicker (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens: Foxhole with my wife.

    I don’t believe I’ve ever received such an offer before. But on the safe side we better stick with our own wives…

    I confess, I don’t even know what it means.

    Hey!  Aren’t you that Dos Equis guy?

    • #84
  25. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    DonG (skeptic) (View Comment):

    A lawyer friend once told me, “If you ever get in an accident driving drunk, immediately take your keys out of the ignition.” That supposedly makes it difficult to prove you were operating the vehicle. I guess lawyers know that if that if you are suspected of a gun crime, that you should flip the firing pin/spring *before* someone comes around to collect evidence. Was that little silver gun operational at the time it was waved around? We’ll never know, but we have to assume it was not.

    Even better.

    Run into a bar or drive home and take drink. They can no longer prove your were intoxicated while driving.

    I knew a lawyer that kept a bottle of mouth wash hanging from his mirror. If he got pulled over he said to wash your mouth out with it before the cop gets there, but where the cop can see you do it. Then any alcohol in your system can be blamed on the mouthwash.

    A lot of mouthwash these days is no-alcohol, and in any event, how would that fool a blood test, vs a breath test?

    • #85
  26. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    • #86
  27. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Stad (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens: Foxhole with my wife.

    I don’t believe I’ve ever received such an offer before. But on the safe side we better stick with our own wives…

    I confess, I don’t even know what it means.

    Hey! Aren’t you that Dos Equis guy?

    Our corresemblance is uncanny, my friend.

    • #87
  28. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens: Foxhole with my wife.

    I don’t believe I’ve ever received such an offer before. But on the safe side we better stick with our own wives…

    I confess, I don’t even know what it means.

    Hey! Aren’t you that Dos Equis guy?

    Our corresemblance is uncanny, my friend.

    I guess we’ll both stay thirsty then . . .

    • #88
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