Actors Who Always Seem to Be Playing Actors. Specifically, Themselves.

 

Note: I’m going through old drafts, trying to clean them up. Here’s one. It doesn’t look worthless enough to pitch, nor bad enough to say, “I think I’ll save this one, and clean it up sometime in the future”. I’ll just mash the Publish button, and have one less box of stuff in my Ricochet basement.

To be honest, I’m afraid that I’ve actually published it at some point. I don’t care. It’s not staying in the basement.

= = = = = = = =

We just watched a post-WWII film, Clementine, directed by John Ford. It stars Henry Fonda.

Whenever Henry Fonda is in the scene, I forget the story and the character he is playing, and I see Henry Fonda playing the part of an actor who is portraying Henry Fonda acting in a film.

Robert Redford is another actor like that. Did he ever do what an actor has to do in a movie, get you to suspend disbelief and get into the story? Forget that he’s acting?

Not that I recall, but if he did, let me know. I may be forgetting or I may have missed the movie. If your reply mentions Butch Cassidy or The Way We Were, The Horse Whisperer, or the one about the cute Mountain Man, do not expect a response.

There are other actors like that, though I can’t think of them at the moment. If you do think of one, your comment will get at least a Like. Promise.

There are other actors who started out that way, but grew in their skills and put on some age, and got to be pretty good actors. I’m thinking of Richard Dreyfuss as an example, but don’t quote me on that. I could probably come up with some examples of movies where he did not play Richard Dreyfuss after he got older, but I would have to fall back on doing a Lifetime Database Query (asking Kate) to name one where he played the role, not the self.

[EDIT: That sentence may be the reason that I decided to save this for necessary fixes before publishing months ago. But I have no regrets. It is one less box in the Ricochet basement, and if the writing quality is horrid enough to earn me a job writing under my own byline on the front section of the WSJ, bring it on. They pay good money.]

Jack Nicholson got famous for Easy Rider. Barf me back to the Sixties. But I think he got better, and that I’ve seen at least one flick where he performed well, an old actor playing an old guy. The Marine Colonel one maybe yes, but the lefty propaganda nature of that movie prevents me from thinking of it as a movie, instead of as a brainwashing project. But if I force myself to think of it as a movie, I have to admit it was a great movie, and Nicholson did a masterful job of playing his role, with not a moment of distraction from the story. One reason is that he wasn’t playing himself, the impudent counter-culture Jester.

 

[EDIT: I fixed an error.  Memo to self: Henry Fonda. Not Henry Ford.]

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  1. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):

    Leading men tend to be like that. Sean Connery didn’t even bother with an accent while playing a Russian submarine commander. Tommy Lee Jones is calmer or wilder but always himself. Morgan Freeman rarely swerves. Mel Gibson.

    I like both kinds of actors. Some good character actors include Geoffrey Rush, Ben Kingsley, Johnny Depp, and Dustin Hoffman.

    Sean Bean is versatile within a certain range, and probably my favorite non-leading actor. He and Jean Reno carried Ronin, for instance, never mind Attitude Man DeNiro.

    • #31
  2. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    I think an actor can only act a part as well as he or she can imagine the part. So an actor changes by emphasizing some aspect or another within one’s own personality and realm of experience. It’s similar to the writer advise to write about what you know.

    When someone pretends to represent something they don’t understand, it’s obvious to those who do understand. This is most obvious with regional accents. It’s why good actors have coaches and do research. 

    All intelligent people have more going on in their heads than they choose to express. A courageous man is not without fear. A good woman is not without cruel or selfish thoughts.

    A good actor is able to let one’s guard down in front of many people and cameras, to focus amid props and gear, and do it on call, to imagine oneself as a different version of oneself. 

    There’s a reason not everyone is good at impressions. Saint Peter said “I am all things to all people. I contain multitudes.” Not everybody does. Some personalities are straightfoward. Some are full of possibilities and internal battles.

    • #32
  3. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):

    I found Jack Nicholson in The Shining to be extremely scary. He was so scary I felt as though I too was shut up in an empty over-sized hotel with a psycho who wanted to murder all of us. Plus he had to be nuts, because what right thinking man -or woman – would wanna kill Shelly Duvall?

    He made himself scary through his eyes. If you play his more psychotic moments in slow mo, you notice right away how his eyes zoom Left-Right-Left in absurdly supra human quickness.

    In many of his movies in the Eighties, he became a type: the narcissistic middle aged playboy who is blase about relationships. He nailed his performances, but acting from a template established over several years is not as impressive as nailing a character the actor has not attempted before.

    We should discuss The Shining. I’ll start – I wanted to kill Shelly Duvall when I watched her insanely stupid character. And since I couldn’t get to her, I wanted Jack to do it for me. I was hoping, when he came up the stairs with that bat, that he’d connect.

    Now that I’ve seen the movie thirty times and analyzed it way too much, I understand what Stanley was doing with her character. I don’t forgive him, tho.

    • #33
  4. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    Barfly (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):

    I found Jack Nicholson in The Shining to be extremely scary. He was so scary I felt as though I too was shut up in an empty over-sized hotel with a psycho who wanted to murder all of us. Plus he had to be nuts, because what right thinking man -or woman – would wanna kill Shelly Duvall?

    He made himself scary through his eyes. If you play his more psychotic moments in slow mo, you notice right away how his eyes zoom Left-Right-Left in absurdly supra human quickness.

    In many of his movies in the Eighties, he became a type: the narcissistic middle aged playboy who is blase about relationships. He nailed his performances, but acting from a template established over several years is not as impressive as nailing a character the actor has not attempted before.

    We should discuss The Shining. I’ll start – I wanted to kill Shelly Duvall when I watched her insanely stupid character. And since I couldn’t get to her, I wanted Jack to do it for me. I was hoping, when he came up the stairs with that bat, that he’d connect.

    Now that I’ve seen the movie thirty times and analyzed it way too much, I understand what Stanley was doing with her character. I don’t forgive him, tho.

    I knew you were gonna say that about Shelly D, Barfly. And I totally get where you are coming from. (My little friend Tony let me know.)

    • #34
  5. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Franco (View Comment):
    Most people leave off the ‘willing’ part, but it’s crucial to the concept. Audiences come to the theatre knowing its fantasy, a play. And there’s a tacit agreement: You create something I can get lost in, don’t insult my intelligence, have internal consistency, in other words, don’t shake me ‘awake’ from the reverie you create, and I will enjoy myself and give you credit.

    Though it took awhile for them to come into their own and they are painfully mainstream, Leondardo Dicaprio and the later Keanu Reeves seem to lose themselves in their roles. This discussion reminds me of a book by A.D. Nutall.

    We know what Milton thought about many things. He didn’t believe in the doctrine of the Trinity; he thought the execution of Charles I was morally right; he thought that married couples who didn’t get on should be allowed to divorce. But we have no idea what Shakespeare thought, finally, about any major question. The man is elusive.

    As Theodore Dalrymple said,

    Perhaps, then, his lack of doctrine was in itself a kind of negative doctrine: that he knew that trying to capture the whole of human existence in a theory is like trying to catch a cloud with a butterfly net—which is foredoomed to failure.

    Stories are critically important things. They help us understand things that theory or even biography don’t do. All of my philosophy fails to explain why so many politicians love power. I don’t have any empathy for actual historical figures and the psychology seems foggy to me. But I have empathy for Lady MacBeth. 

    Such is the force of fiction.

    • #35
  6. Steve C. Member
    Steve C.
    @user_531302

    John Lithgow.

    The man has tremendous range, but I’m always aware I’m watching John Lithgow. NTTAWWT

     

    • #36
  7. Steve C. Member
    Steve C.
    @user_531302

    On accents

    In defense of Marko Ramius, if you can’t do an accent well, don’t do it. The classic blunder, only slightly less well known than “never going in against a Sicilian when death is on the line, Tony Curtis’ “Yonder lies da castle of my fadduh.”.

    A different twist

    • #37
  8. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Some Call Me …Tim (View Comment):
    Did your “external storage device” get the I Love Lucy reference?

    Yes!  She did.  I was very impressed. How do people remember all this stuff?

    • #38
  9. Jon1979 Inactive
    Jon1979
    @Jon1979

    Robert Redford played Death, disguised as a wounded policeman, in an episode of “The Twilight Zone” about half a decade before he first became a star. The point of course was death wasn’t supposed to look like Robert Redford, but while the role played to his looks, since he’s just a supporting actor here, he’s not playing Robert Redford:

     

    • #39
  10. Vance Richards Inactive
    Vance Richards
    @VanceRichards

    Mark Camp: Whenever Henry Fonda is in the scene, I forget the story and the character he is playing, and I see Henry Ford playing the part of an actor who is portraying Henry Fonda acting in a film.

    I get that in a lot of things, but in Once Upon a Time in the West, I didn’t see Fonda. I just saw Frank.

    • #40
  11. Some Call Me ...Tim Coolidge
    Some Call Me ...Tim
    @SomeCallMeTim

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Some Call Me …Tim (View Comment):
    Did your “external storage device” get the I Love Lucy reference?

    Yes! She did. I was very impressed. How do people remember all this stuff?

    Mark,

    Well, Mrs. Camp is obviously a woman of great intellect and refinement.  So, of course she would know such things.

    I remember this stuff because movies interest me and it’s funny.

    Tim

     

    • #41
  12. The Scarecrow Thatcher
    The Scarecrow
    @TheScarecrow

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):

    Leading men tend to be like that. Sean Connery didn’t even bother with an accent while playing a Russian submarine commander. Tommy Lee Jones is calmer or wilder but always himself. Morgan Freeman rarely swerves. Mel Gibson.

    I like both kinds of actors. Some good character actors include Geoffrey Rush, Ben Kingsley, Johnny Depp, and Dustin Hoffman.

    I agree with the first three, and raise you Gary Oldman (possibly our finest actor) and Colin Firth.

    But Dustin Hoffman? Some good performances, but when he’s bad, it looks like he is practicing his lines in front of a mirror, trying out different voices. Cringe-central.

    • #42
  13. The Scarecrow Thatcher
    The Scarecrow
    @TheScarecrow

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Some Call Me …Tim (View Comment):

    Mark,

    Executive Suite was on TCM this evening. After watching it, but before reading your post, I thought to myself that William Holden always seemed to be playing the same type, or played his roles in the same manner. Now, I really like William Holden and cannot think of a movie he was in that I did not like (he was especially good on I Love Lucy). But I just always knew I was watching William Holden in whatever role it was. Then your post came along, and I had to write.

    On the other end of the spectrum is Daniel Day Lewis. Even though you know it is him playing a role, you see the character first, then the actor.

    Tim

    Tim,

    Regarding William Holden, I’m going to have to consult with my external storage device for cultural questions (and people’s names), the BoatWife.

    But meanwhile the main idea of your note resonates with me. My example of a William Holden will be Morgan Freeman. When someone mentioned him as an example of my “actor playing himself”, I understood right away. Morgan Freeman is always cast as a character who is…Morgan Freeman.

    But I like Morgan Freeman in his movies, just as you like Holden (maybe I like Holden too…I will get back to you on that once my inquiries are completed…”Honey, which one is William Holden, again?”)

    There are two different things going on here. Robert Redford bad, William Holden good. But for some viewers, they switch places. I think in the morning I could explain it. But if I know me, I will be thinking about something else, econ or science or music or something.

    Morgan Freeman can play quite a range of characters, from benevolent to scary.  He’s too big an actor now to stretch his muscles nowadays, and once you’ve played God, you’re in demand for the all-wise roles he is probably inundated with now.

    But the same way an actor can tarnish himself with an asshat comment about politics, forever making me wince a little when I see him, Morgan Freeman did the opposite. When asked “What shall we do to help the black man?” he replied like Frederick Douglass: “Do nothing with us. Stop helping us. We are fine.”  Or something to that effect.

    I admit it is small-minded of me, but now every time I see him, my heart skips a beat, and I smile with hope for my fellow man.

    • #43
  14. The Scarecrow Thatcher
    The Scarecrow
    @TheScarecrow

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Some movie stars are accomplished actors. However, some stars are just stars and always play according to their type. The directors simply tap them for a part that agrees with their type. Redford was so successful with his looks and counter-culture rep that they just did it over and over. Redford didn’t need to prepare much for the parts because people just wanted to see Redford anyway. Jane Fonda was like Redford. It was always just Jane Fonda, not the character. Putting them together was just a double gimmick.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #44
  15. The Scarecrow Thatcher
    The Scarecrow
    @TheScarecrow

    Barfly (View Comment):
    Sean Bean is versatile within a certain range, and probably my favorite non-leading actor. He and Jean Reno carried Ronin, for instance, never mind Attitude Man DeNiro.

    You may know him as Sean Bean.  But to me will always live in the hearts of his 95th Rifles as Captain Richard Sharpe.

    • #45
  16. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Jon1979 (View Comment):

    Robert Redford played Death, disguised as a wounded policeman, in an episode of “The Twilight Zone” about half a decade before he first became a star. The point of course was death wasn’t supposed to look like Robert Redford, but while the role played to his looks, since he’s just a supporting actor here, he’s not playing Robert Redford:

    Thanks.  I think this may count as a counter-example to my including Redford in my Bad list. I didn’t have time to watch the whole thing, because Kate read Sunday Morning Coming Down on Powerline and so we are listening to a bunch of Jimmy Webb songs.  No link, you guys all have PowerLine bookmarked.

    • #46
  17. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Playing a somewhat tipsy version of a person everyone knows – and singing live in a take, is about as good as you can get IMO.

    I have tremendous respect for actors. It’s really hard, and it’s so easy to be bad.

    • #47
  18. The Cynthonian Inactive
    The Cynthonian
    @TheCynthonian

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    John Lithgow.

    The man has tremendous range, but I’m always aware I’m watching John Lithgow. NTTAWWT

    This is partly because of his very distinctive voice, IMHO.  I would put Alan Rickman (RIP) in the same category.

    • #48
  19. Vectorman Inactive
    Vectorman
    @Vectorman

    James Gawron (View Comment):
    Jane Fonda was like Redford. It was always just Jane Fonda, not the character.

    For me, her performance in the made for TV movie The Doll Maker was somewhat outside of her character:

    She made this movie after Nine to Five, touring Appalachia with Dolly Parton.

    • #49
  20. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Regarding playing to type:

    In my view, to play to type, Redford would have to play a pretty, self-absorbed actor with limited acting ability. In all his actual roles, he is not playing to type, and he has difficulty with that.

    I’m not counting the Twilight Zone part.

    • #50
  21. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    A good way to assess the ability of an actor is to realize you didn’t know who was starring, and then discovered who they are. Christian Bale is one. Angelina Jolie. 

    And I would always recognize him, but Alan Rickman is a favorite actor. 

    • #51
  22. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):

    Leading men tend to be like that. Sean Connery didn’t even bother with an accent while playing a Russian submarine commander. Tommy Lee Jones is calmer or wilder but always himself. Morgan Freeman rarely swerves. Mel Gibson.

    I like both kinds of actors. Some good character actors include Geoffrey Rush, Ben Kingsley, Johnny Depp, and Dustin Hoffman.

    I agree with the first three, and raise you Gary Oldman (possibly our finest actor) and Colin Firth.

    But Dustin Hoffman? Some good performances, but when he’s bad, it looks like he is practicing his lines in front of a mirror, trying out different voices. Cringe-central.

    Rain Man, Hero. But yes, he usually plays himself.

    • #52
  23. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    All actors play themselves.

    Great actors, or even really good actors, almost always have a personality that is engaging — attractive, personal, glib, facile, with clear facial expressions that are varied, complex and contextually appropriate.  They are good raconteurs, personally.  It’s rare to find a really good actor who is boring in real life.

    What they do on the screen is be themselves in odd or different situations, and they themselves are most often that thing which engages the viewer.

    (And notice that comedians usually can play dramatic parts extremely well, but half of dramatic actors seem to have trouble with comedy.)

    • #53
  24. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    Flicker (View Comment):

    All actors play themselves.

    Great actors, or even really good actors, almost always have a personality that is engaging — attractive, personal, glib, facile, with clear facial expressions that are varied, complex and contextually appropriate. They are good raconteurs, personally. It’s rare to find a really good actor who is boring in real life.

    What they do on the screen is be themselves in odd or different situations, and they themselves are most often that thing which engages the viewer.

    (And notice that comedians usually can play dramatic parts extremely well, but half of dramatic actors seem to have trouble with comedy.)

    Some actors are quite shy and are not engaging in person. DeNiro is one actor in that category.

    Many actors have commented that playing comedy is much harder than doing drama. There was a great 2 minute segment  on “Friends” where Joey explained to a class he was teaching how you it is you react, cry, or act deeply serious  when doing the drama of a soap opera.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQzQRaQINns

    Richard Burton once turned to some cast member in the stage play “Camelot” and said, “Tonight I will recite the King’s speech so that the audience cries.” And that was the effect he got.

    The next night he announced “Tonight I will recite the King’s speech and make the audience laugh.” And they found the speech hilarious.

    • #54
  25. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):

    Richard Burton once turned to some cast member in the stage play “Camelot” and said, “Tonight I will recite the King’s speech so that the audience cries.” And that was the effect he got.

    The next night he announced “Tonight I will recite the King’s speech and make the audience laugh.” And they found the speech hilarious.

    And that is acting.

    • #55
  26. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    All actors play themselves.

    Great actors, or even really good actors, almost always have a personality that is engaging — attractive, personal, glib, facile, with clear facial expressions that are varied, complex and contextually appropriate. They are good raconteurs, personally. It’s rare to find a really good actor who is boring in real life.

    What they do on the screen is be themselves in odd or different situations, and they themselves are most often that thing which engages the viewer.

    (And notice that comedians usually can play dramatic parts extremely well, but half of dramatic actors seem to have trouble with comedy.)

    Some actors are quite shy and are not engaging in person. DeNiro is one actor in that category.

    Many actors have commented that playing comedy is much harder than doing drama. There was a great 2 minute segments on “Friends” where Joey explained to a class he was teaching how you react, cry, or act deeply serious when doing the drama of a soap opera.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQzQRaQINns

    Richard Burton once turned to some cast member in the stage play “Camelot” and said, “Tonight I will recite the King’s speech so that the audience cries.” And that was the effect he got.

    The next night he announced “Tonight I will recite the King’s speech and make the audience laugh.” And they found the speech hilarious.

    You can be both engaging and emotive and facile, and shy.

    • #56
  27. Steve C. Member
    Steve C.
    @user_531302

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):
    Sean Bean is versatile within a certain range, and probably my favorite non-leading actor. He and Jean Reno carried Ronin, for instance, never mind Attitude Man DeNiro.

    You may know him as Sean Bean. But to me will always live in the hearts of his 95th Rifles as Captain Richard Sharpe.

    King George commands and we obey.

    • #57
  28. Steve C. Member
    Steve C.
    @user_531302

    Arahant (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):

    Richard Burton once turned to some cast member in the stage play “Camelot” and said, “Tonight I will recite the King’s speech so that the audience cries.” And that was the effect he got.

    The next night he announced “Tonight I will recite the King’s speech and make the audience laugh.” And they found the speech hilarious.

    And that is acting.

    • #58
  29. Tocqueville Inactive
    Tocqueville
    @Tocqueville

    I had to scroll all the way down to see if anyone had said Woody Allen already. The most obvious example of someone always playing themselves. And now that he is too old to play a romantic role, a given actor fills in and plays Woody Allen in all his most recent (terrible) movies.

    Also Matthew McConaughy generally plays rakish sexy Southerners, but I love that man so I am happy to see him anytime. And Viggo Mortensen is another, dark, dangerous ethical men. And Cillian Murphy from Peaky Blinders generally plays characters that are sensitive and twisted, thus offsetting his looks.

    • #59
  30. The Scarecrow Thatcher
    The Scarecrow
    @TheScarecrow

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    A good way to assess the ability of an actor is to realize you didn’t know who was starring, and then discovered who they are. Christian Bale is one. Angelina Jolie.

    And I would always recognize him, but Alan Rickman is a favorite actor.

    Gary Oldman is the one I found to disappear into a role – without crazy make up usually (well, Dracula).  Sid Vicious, Sirious Black, Lee Harvey Oswald, Beethoven, the bad guy from Fifth Element, George Smiley, Churchill, and lots of other bad guys.

    He’s been a fav of mine since Sid and Nancy, and the very odd Track 29.

    • #60
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