Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. The Self-Destruction of Modern Feminism

 

I grew up as one might imagine the youngest and only girl in a sports-oriented family would: a tomboy who had a never-ending supply of used boys’ clothes, a competitive nature, and a healthy imagination. Role models (both of what to do, and what not to do) were in ample supply. My parents both worked full-time and gave my brothers and me the greatest childhood of which any kid would be jealous. We never had any idea of the financial struggles they dealt with as my father took a risk on starting his own business with no safety net but with a wife, young kids, and a mortgage to support. Although we grew up working-class and didn’t have name-brand … anything, we had our parents’ devotion, dedication, and support. We could do anything we could put our minds to. And I was told no differently because I was a girl.

Even though I was a girl, it wasn’t an exclusionary part of my identity. It was a formative part of my personality (and why I lost all the backyard fights), but never brought up as a weakness. My being a girl – and woman – was never to be used as an excuse for cowardice or timidity or to be a crutch for self-pity. That mindset got me through college, the Marine Corps’ Officer Candidate School, the Marines, and professional life. It’s true there have been many challenges along the way and perhaps being a woman has made some aspects of the journey more difficult, but to have resolve and determination beat into my mind (more or less a consequence of those fistfights with my brothers) makes the challenge more worthy of pursuit.

The lure and deceit of modern feminism are that of indulging victimhood. Modern feminism has turned the idea that woman were capable of pursuing the things to which they were called and twisted it into a sort of egalitarian pipe dream: feminists offered promises of unreserved happiness to the women who rejected traditional gender roles out of spite for the so-called Patriarchal American society. If a woman did not feel fulfilled by delaying marriage and a family, it must be the construct of a sexist society in which all of a woman’s needs can’t be fulfilled by pursuing some “personal enlightenment” through a career.

The feminist movement took a disastrous turn when it shifted from a message acknowledging the inherent strength of women and our capacity to contribute to the diversity of ideas and skills in society, to a herd mentality dictated by a select progressive elite, chaining women to the anchor of a perpetual victim class. It was an open invitation to use gender as a way to avoid responsibility for poor life choices, to use it as an excuse to not pursue one’s potential, and as a weapon to silence critics who happen to be of the opposite sex. Hillary Clinton mastered this technique. She has a complete deck of playing cards emblazoned with “Sexist” and the picture of 52 past and present Republican politicians. It’s now on loan to Elizabeth Warren who played a bold hand during the Iowa debate Tuesday night.

While in college, I went to a political conference by Young Americans for Freedom. One day the young men and women were grouped into separate conference rooms. They did this to speak to the different viewpoints each group would encounter as conservatives out in the political world. Us gals were given a presentation by the Clare Boothe Luce Center. It wasn’t a radical feminist screed on the evils of a patriarchal society. There were no fist-raising chants of “The future is Female.” It was a primer on the contributions of the voices of conservatism’s leading ladies. The lesson was to be strong about your convictions and your ideas. It resonated with me. It echoed the voice of my father who told me I could do anything I wanted because I was strong and determined. It echoed my mother who taught me that even though I was different than my brothers, I wasn’t less than them.

How tragic it is for women who bought into the notion that to be equal is to be exactly the same. What message is being sent by the quota-warriors who insist on filling exactly 50 percent of boardroom chairs or congressional seats with women’s … bottoms just to fulfill an arbitrary requirement? It means exactly the opposite of modern feminism’s message: you are only valuable as your gender, not your ideas. This is where the mask comes off and modern feminism is exposed as a tool of the left. It stretches from behind the desk of Bill Clinton’s Oval Office and extends to Michelle Obama criticizing women who voted for Donald Trump in 2016. She said this at The United States of Women summit: “What is going on in our heads where we let that (Trump win) happen. So I do wonder what are young girls dreaming about.”

Young girls are dreaming about being champions of their ideas because they are good ideas; that their voices are heard and valued because of their content, not their gender; that they won’t be a traitor to their sex because they don’t hold the proper progressive ideas or choose to be stay-at-home mothers who raise kids and lay the foundation for a free and prosperous young generation of thinkers and doers and fighters.

In 2006, Sen. Kyrsten Sinema said, “These women who act like staying at home, leeching off their husbands or boyfriends, and just cashing the checks is some sort of feminism because they’re choosing to live that life. That’s bull[expletive].” My Grandma Joan, who was a real-life Rosie the Riveter during WWII but went back to being a mere housewife after the war would disagree. She would probably recommend Sen. Sinema take a short walk off a long pier.

Modern feminists have fought to drown out and silence any dissent within their ranks and maintain their power over women’s issues by convincing women and girls they are born victims and, therefore, are entitled to special protections and privileges. We are doing irreparable damage to our young women when they hear the message that to be equal to men, women must be the same as men. We should be embracing and celebrating what makes men and women different and how each contributes to society, the community, and their families with their unique strengths.

It’s wrong to condition women into lives of low expectations by convincing them they are judged solely on their gender. The tired, worn, suffocating old notions of feminists desperately need a new generation of victims. We need to deny them their source and empower young women by encouraging them to follow their hearts and minds because they are women, not despite it.


*Please make note I consider gender to be immutable. Thank you!

Published in Policing
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There are 47 comments.

  1. Columbo Member

    Well said! I am sure that growing up and competing with brothers took away any sort of inclination toward victimhood. It did require you to be tough, resilient and independent. You weren’t given anything because of your gender and thus your strength came from within yourself. It is a shame that so many of today’s women rely upon victimhood. You are correct in saying that “the lure and deceit of modern feminism is that of indulging victimhood”. Your post exposes the contradictions throughout today’s version of “feminism” (sic). 

    This reminds me of two extremely different people, speaking about two very different woman’s movements.

    Saint Pope John II (the Great) was an advocate about women’s rights and dignity. There was not an equality of opportunity in the 1970’s and a woman’s movement to correct this was needed. Here is Pope JP2:

    “In transforming culture so that it supports life, women occupy a place, in thought and action, which is unique and decisive. It depends on them to promote a “new feminism” which rejects the temptation of imitating models of “male domination,” in order to acknowledge and affirm the true genius of women in every aspect of the life of society and overcome all discrimination, violence, and exploitation. (…) You are called to bear witness to the meaning of genuine love, of that gift of self and of that acceptance of others which are present in a special way in the relationship of husband and wife, but which ought also to be at the heart of every other interpersonal relationship.”

    The second perspective was that given to today’s “feminists” (sic) by Milo Yiannopoulos at U Mass (go to 3:10 at the video)

    Feminism is cancer.

    • #1
    • January 16, 2020, at 7:40 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  2. RyanFalcone Member

    Modern feminism is just a construct of the elites. It is built, like most of their other constructs to maximize their power. In this case, they want all the undesirables to be lesbians and gays so that they don’t reproduce.

     

    • #2
    • January 16, 2020, at 7:59 AM PST
    • 6 likes
  3. Unsk Member

    Very fine post, as Columbo said “Well Said”!

    • #3
    • January 16, 2020, at 8:58 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  4. Lilly B Coolidge

    JennaStocker:

    The lure and deceit of modern feminism is that of indulging victimhood. Modern feminism has turned the idea that woman were capable of pursuing the things to which they were called and twisted it into a sort of egalitarian pipe dream: feminists offered promises of unreserved happiness to the women who rejected traditional gender roles out of spite for the so-called Patriarchal American society, and if a woman did not feel fulfilled by delaying marriage and a family it must be the construct of a sexist society in which all of a woman’s needs can’t be fulfilled by pursuing some ‘personal enlightenment’ through a career.

    I was looking for a quote I cannot quite recall about the trick of the feminist movement being the idea of convincing half the population that they are victims, and I found a treasure-trove of fascinating statements by Camille Paglia. This one in particular seems to me to capture the flaw in the logic of feminists when they blame men or society for the inherent biological vulnerabilities of women:

    Feminism was always wrong to pretend that women could “have it all.” It is not male society but mother nature who lays the heaviest burden on woman. No husband or day care can adequately substitute for a mother’s attention. My feminist heroes are the boldly independent and childless Amelia Earhart and Katherine Hepburn, who has been outspoken in her opposition to the delusion of “having it all.”

    • #4
    • January 16, 2020, at 9:11 AM PST
    • 7 likes
  5. JennaStocker Member
    JennaStocker

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Well said! I am sure that growing up and competing with brothers took away any sort of inclination toward victimhood. It did require you to be tough, resilient and independent. You weren’t given anything because of your gender and thus your strength came from within yourself. It is a shame that so many of today’s women rely upon victimhood. You are correct in saying that “the lure and deceit of modern feminism is that of indulging victimhood”. Your post exposes the contradictions throughout today’s version of “feminism” (sic).

    This reminds me of two extremely different people, speaking about two very different woman’s movements.

    Saint Pope John II (the Great) was an advocate about women’s rights and dignity. There was not an equality of opportunity in the 1970’s and a woman’s movement to correct this was needed. Here is Pope JP2:

    “In transforming culture so that it supports life, women occupy a place, in thought and action, which is unique and decisive. It depends on them to promote a “new feminism” which rejects the temptation of imitating models of “male domination,” in order to acknowledge and affirm the true genius of women in every aspect of the life of society and overcome all discrimination, violence, and exploitation. (…) You are called to bear witness to the meaning of genuine love, of that gift of self and of that acceptance of others which are present in a special way in the relationship of husband and wife, but which ought also to be at the heart of every other interpersonal relationship.”

    The second perspective was that given to today’s “feminists” (sic) by Milo Yiannopoulos at U Mass (go to 3:10 at the video)

    Feminism is cancer.

    Thank you for the feedback! Yes, I really didn’t know how blessed I was being raised in a family hell-bent on independent thinking until college when I had my first encounter with the Womyns Group. Great addition with the link to Pope JP2. I hadn’t heard that before.

    • #5
    • January 16, 2020, at 9:12 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  6. Stad Thatcher

    JennaStocker: My being a girl – and woman – was never to be used as an excuse for cowardice or timidity or to be a crutch for self-pity. That mindset got me through college, the Marine Corps’ Officer Candidate School and the Marines, and in professional life.

    Remind me to stay on your good side.

    Nothing says a woman can’t be tough, powerful, aggressive when necessary, and still be feminine. I saw it at Navy OCS back in the winter of ’78. Most of the female OCs were all business in uniform. But when liberty call came, everyone either headed off base or to the junior officers club for fun and entertainment. And those ladies were very feminine during R&R.

    There is definitely a backlash against modern feminism, and I think it’s larger than the MSM would have you believe. Smart women analyze their choices in life, and they know all those choices involve trade-offs, mostly time with family vs. time at work. When these women get criticized as not being a “real woman” as some of the feminists have done, these women ignore the negativity and move on with their lives, a not-so-subtle middle finger to the vagina hat crowd . . .

    • #6
    • January 16, 2020, at 9:13 AM PST
    • 8 likes
  7. JennaStocker Member
    JennaStocker

    Stad (View Comment):

    JennaStocker: My being a girl – and woman – was never to be used as an excuse for cowardice or timidity or to be a crutch for self-pity. That mindset got me through college, the Marine Corps’ Officer Candidate School and the Marines, and in professional life.

    Remind me to stay on your good side.

    Nothing says a woman can’t be tough, powerful, aggressive when necessary, and still be feminine. I saw it at Navy OCS back in the winter of ’78. Most of the female OCs were all business in uniform. But when liberty call came, everyone either headed off base or to the junior officers club for fun and entertainment. And those ladies were very feminine during R&R.

    There is definitely a backlash against modern feminism, and I think it’s larger than the MSM would have you believe. Smart women analyze their choices in life, and they know all those choices involve trade-offs, mostly time with family vs. time at work. When these women get criticized as not being a “real woman” as some of the feminists have done, these women ignore the negativity and move on with their lives, a not-so-subtle middle finger to the vagina hat crowd . . .

    Ha! Noted. And yes, I think there is a certain appeal for women who are unhappy with their own lives to make certain no one else can be happy. Bitterness is a self-imposed punishment. Thank you Stad!

    • #7
    • January 16, 2020, at 9:24 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  8. Susan Quinn Contributor

    I don’t remember any warnings or criticisms about men from either of my parents. My mom worked once we started school and became an entrepreneur, selling above-ground pools first and then starting a bookkeeping and tax business. When I started my own businesses, she always encouraged me and said nothing about “working in a men’s world.” I give her great credit for leaving those issues out of my education!

    • #8
    • January 16, 2020, at 9:44 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  9. Tex929rr Coolidge

    I don’t know when your military service was, but I was married to my wife just before she started USAF pilot training after commissioning in 82 (I was a former enlistee civil engineering officer). She was just after the first cohort of female pilots. After observing her and her small cohort of female pilots what I saw was that the successful women wanted to fly jets – they didn’t want to be women flying jets, if that makes any sense. She rarely encountered a female pilot who would wave the woman card but when it did happen it made her see red. The same occurred when she went on the fly for FedEx after her military service. Her family upbringing (3 siblings) was a stay at home mom (with a degree in microbiology degree), and an engineer and Korean War vet father. What I found interesting was that her parents never told the kids that they could do whatever they put their mind to – they just treated them that way (and believed it), which I think ultimately made them stronger. One of her female cousins of the same age is a retired Marine Colonel.

    People do a huge injustice when they highlight the first female this or first Hispanic that, or whatever. It puts people in a box and ultimately devalues their achievements.

    When American feminists fought the notion of drafting women they proved that it was never about equality. 

    • #9
    • January 16, 2020, at 10:07 AM PST
    • 7 likes
  10. She Reagan
    She Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    What an absolutely wonderful post; one of the best I’ve ever seen on Ricochet, and certainly one of the best, if not the best ever, on this topic. Thank you.

    JennaStocker: Even though I was a girl, it wasn’t an exclusionary part of my identity. It was a formative part of my personality

    Amen. I don’t think I’ve ever heard it said better than this.

    (and why I lost all the backyard fights), but never brought up as a weakness. My being a girl – and woman – was never to be used as an excuse for cowardice or timidity or to be a crutch for self-pity. That mindset got me through college, the Marine Corps’ Officer Candidate School, the Marines, and professional life. It’s true there have been many challenges along the way and perhaps being a woman has made some aspects of the journey more difficult, but to have resolve and determination beat into my mind (more or less a consequence of those fistfights with my brothers) makes the challenge more worthy of pursuit.

    And double Amen.

    Being a “girl” was never an obstacle for me either; I’ll always remember, where I was probably four or five and living in Nigeria, Michael and Desmond Wilson (both a bit older than me) going “neener neener,” sticking their tongues out, and climbing trees to get away from “the girl.” (Most of my friends early in life were boys, because not too many colonial officers brought their very young daughters out to “the bush” at that time. M&D and their parents were good family friends, and we spent a lot of time together.)

    I went bawling to Dad (of course). Did he sit M&D down and chew them out? Or order them to play nice with his kid? Or tattle on them to their parents?

    No, of course not.

    He rounded up young Yusufu, the son of our “steward” (butler/general factotum), and told him to teach me how to climb trees. We had a marvelous time. And next time M&D tried their little game, I went with them.

    • #10
    • January 16, 2020, at 10:14 AM PST
    • 14 likes
  11. Susan Quinn Contributor

    Tex929rr (View Comment):
    What I found interesting was that her parents never told the kids that they could do whatever they put their mind to – they just treated them that way (and believed it), which I think ultimately made them stronger.

    I grew up this way, too, @tex929rr. We were just treated that way.

    • #11
    • January 16, 2020, at 11:09 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  12. Bill Nelson Member

    My daughter was #4 of 6. We were also a sports oriented family (at one time 6 kids on 6 different soccer teams). Academics were also important as was hard work.

    My daughter was an IB student in high school. Student body president, goal keeper for several state championship soccer teams (club), attend college on a soccer scholarship (until she blew out a knee), saw the WTC burn from her dorm room. Went to law school and is a lead attorney for a major insurance company.

    In third grade, my wife put her in a dress for picture day. Five minutes later she came thought the door, changed into a t-shirt and shorts, and left with her soccer ball. And she is raising her daughter the same way.

     

     

    • #12
    • January 16, 2020, at 11:20 AM PST
    • 7 likes
  13. JennaStocker Member
    JennaStocker

    Bill Nelson (View Comment):

    My daughter was #4 of 6. We were also a sports oriented family (at one time 6 kids on 6 different soccer teams). Academics were also important as was hard work.

    My daughter was an IB student in high school. Student body president, goal keeper for several state championship soccer teams (club), attend college on a soccer scholarship (until she blew out a knee), saw the WTC burn from her dorm room. Went to law school and is a lead attorney for a major insurance company.

    In third grade, my wife put her in a dress for picture day. Five minutes later she came thought the door, changed into a t-shirt and shorts, and left with her soccer ball. And she is raising her daughter the same way.

     

     

    I love this!

    • #13
    • January 16, 2020, at 11:39 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  14. JennaStocker Member
    JennaStocker

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    I don’t remember any warnings or criticisms about men from either of my parents. My mom worked once we started school and became an entrepreneur, selling above-ground pools first and then starting a bookkeeping and tax business. When I started my own businesses, she always encouraged me and said nothing about “working in a men’s world.” I give her great credit for leaving those issues out of my education!

    That’s great- what an powerful example of the strength of good role models and positive attitudes.

    • #14
    • January 16, 2020, at 11:44 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  15. JennaStocker Member
    JennaStocker

    She (View Comment):

    What an absolutely wonderful post; one of the best I’ve ever seen on Ricochet, and certainly one of the best, if not the best ever, on this topic. Thank you.

    JennaStocker: Even though I was a girl, it wasn’t an exclusionary part of my identity. It was a formative part of my personality

    Amen. I don’t think I’ve ever heard it said better than this.

    (and why I lost all the backyard fights), but never brought up as a weakness. My being a girl – and woman – was never to be used as an excuse for cowardice or timidity or to be a crutch for self-pity. That mindset got me through college, the Marine Corps’ Officer Candidate School, the Marines, and professional life. It’s true there have been many challenges along the way and perhaps being a woman has made some aspects of the journey more difficult, but to have resolve and determination beat into my mind (more or less a consequence of those fistfights with my brothers) makes the challenge more worthy of pursuit.

    And double Amen.

    Being a “girl” was never an obstacle for me either; I’ll always remember, where I was probably four or five and living in Nigeria, Michael and Desmond Wilson (both a bit older than me) going “neener neener,” sticking their tongues out, and climbing trees to get away from “the girl.” (Most of my friends early in life were boys, because not too many colonial officers brought their very young daughters out to “the bush” at that time. M&D and their parents were good family friends, and we spent a lot of time together.)

    I went bawling to Dad (of course). Did he sit M&D down and chew them out? Or order them to play nice with his kid? Or tattle on them to their parents?

    No, of course not.

    He rounded up young Yusufu, the son of our “steward” (butler/general factotum), and told him to teach me how to climb trees. We had a marvelous time. And next time M&D tried their little game, I went with them.

    I am humbled beyond words for your kind thoughts and feedback. And what a story you have! My dad would’ve shamed the self-pity out of me too if my brothers didn’t beat it out of me first 😉

    • #15
    • January 16, 2020, at 11:46 AM PST
    • 6 likes
  16. JennaStocker Member
    JennaStocker

    Tex929rr (View Comment):

    I don’t know when your military service was, but I was married to my wife just before she started USAF pilot training after commissioning in 82 (I was a former enlistee civil engineering officer). She was just after the first cohort of female pilots. After observing her and her small cohort of female pilots what I saw was that the successful women wanted to fly jets – they didn’t want to be women flying jets, if that makes any sense. She rarely encountered a female pilot who would wave the woman card but when it did happen it made her see red. The same occurred when she went on the fly for FedEx after her military service. Her family upbringing (3 siblings) was a stay at home mom (with a degree in microbiology degree), and an engineer and Korean War vet father. What I found interesting was that her parents never told the kids that they could do whatever they put their mind to – they just treated them that way (and believed it), which I think ultimately made them stronger. One of her female cousins of the same age is a retired Marine Colonel.

    People do a huge injustice when they highlight the first female this or first Hispanic that, or whatever. It puts people in a box and ultimately devalues their achievements.

    When American feminists fought the notion of drafting women they proved that it was never about equality.

    Well said! I felt the same sentiment in the Corps. We we were all Marines-not hyphenated Marines. There’s no room for that in a fighting hole.

    • #16
    • January 16, 2020, at 11:48 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  17. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    Jenna, than you for the post, and thank you for your service to our country. My oldest son is a Marine, so I have a great fondness for the Corps.

    This post puts me in a quandary. I do not want to disrespect your service, or your motives. But I’ve been increasingly inclined to believe that female service in the military presents very serious difficulties, and that we do not generally deal with these honestly. I do not think that it is appropriate for women to be in combat roles. I am open to argument on the point, and I am certainly not an expert in the area.

    I have some questions:

    (1) Were you physically capable of leading Marines in combat?

    (2) Of the women that you knew in the Marines, what proportion do you think were physically capable of participating in combat?

    (3) Would you have passed the physical fitness requirements that would have applied if you had been a male Marine?

    (4) Of the women that you knew in the Marines, what proportion do you think were capable of meeting the physical fitness requirements applicable to male Marines?

    (5) Do you think that it is appropriate for women to serve in combat roles in the Marines in particular, and in the US military in general?

    (6) Do you think that the same physical fitness requirements should apply to both men and women in the US military?

    (7) Is it fair that a woman can serve in the military, in an exclusively non-combat role, without meeting the physical fitness requirements that would apply if she were a man? If so, why shouldn’t men who wish to serve, but do not wish to have a combat role and do not meet the male physical fitness requirements, have the same opportunity to serve?

    (8) I’ve heard of studies indicating that the inclusion of women in combat units results in lower unit effectiveness, even if the women are physically capable of such activities. Do you have an opinion about this, or additional information?

    These are difficult issues. Female service in the military is a very new phenomenon, and my impression is that honest discussion of the issues that it presents has been seriously suppressed by feminists (not meaning you, Jenna — I’m thinking about people like former Colorado Rep. Patricia Schroeder).

    Sorry to be such a grouchy old man. I think that these are legitimate concerns, and I’d appreciate your correction if you think that I am wrong about any (or all) of them.

    • #17
    • January 16, 2020, at 12:04 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  18. GrannyDude Member

    One of the manifold disconnects in modern feminism is the emphasis on “childcare.” I think it was Pete Buttigieg who said that a female constituent complained that she was basically working just to make enough money to pay for childcare so she could work. His takeaway? Someone/the government should provide “high quality daycare” to our children so that women like this one can join the workforce and spend the money she earns on…well, something more important than childcare, presumably.

     Who do they think is going to provide that “high-quality” care?

    95% of childcare workers are women. Children are still being raised by women and doubtless also by mothers. Just not their own. 

     

    • #18
    • January 16, 2020, at 12:42 PM PST
    • 11 likes
  19. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    JennaStocker: *Please make note I consider gender to be immutable. Thank you!

    This is a great comment, though as a grouch, I refuse to use the Leftist term “gender” to refer to sex. People do not have a gender. People have a sex, which I agree is immutable.

    Words in certain foreign languages have a gender, which is also immutable.

    Jenna, I don’t say this as a criticism of you. This is part of my personal campaign, no doubt quixotic, to encourage my fellow conservatives to reject Orwellian Leftist terminology.

    • #19
    • January 16, 2020, at 1:46 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  20. Lilly B Coolidge

    I’m interested in the answers to the questions @arizonapatriot asks.

    Separately, it seems like many people in general and on this thread are so congratulatory of women having more typically masculine interests and pursuits. That’s great for those women, but there doesn’t seem to be a similar enthusiasm for women who don’t want to play sports all the time or work in finance, law, or some other demanding field. I have 3 daughters who are very smart and competitive in their own ways, but I cannot get them to play sports outside of scheduled practices. However, they sing, draw, write, and play music constantly. They’re just girly. Isn’t that okay, too?

    A relative recently lamented that she was the only woman of a dozen people at a business dinner (she’s in finance). It’s great that she’s doing what she does, but why do other women have to follow her path until there’s at least 50% women at the dinner? I don’t think it’s sexism, but just the result of preferences. I wanted to point out that she is in her late 40s and doesn’t have children, so maybe that’s why she’s in a field that most women with children don’t choose.

    • #20
    • January 16, 2020, at 2:05 PM PST
    • 6 likes
  21. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    Lilly B (View Comment):

    I’m interested in the answers to the questions @arizonapatriot asks.

    Separately, it seems like many people in general and on this thread are so congratulatory of women having more typically masculine interests and pursuits. That’s great for those women, but there doesn’t seem to be a similar enthusiasm for women who don’t want to play sports all the time or work in finance, law, or some other demanding field. I have 3 daughters who are very smart and competitive in their own ways, but I cannot get them to play sports outside of scheduled practices. However, they sing, draw, write, and play music constantly. They’re just girly. Isn’t that okay, too?

    A relative recently lamented that she was the only woman of a dozen people at a business dinner (she’s in finance). It’s great that she’s doing what she does, but why do other women have to follow her path until there’s at least 50% women at the dinner? I don’t think it’s sexism, but just the result of preferences. I wanted to point out that she is in her late 40s and doesn’t have children, so maybe that’s why she’s in a field that most women with children don’t choose.

    Lilly, thanks for the comment.

    I think that the feminism movement went badly astray with 2nd wave feminism in the 1960s, and that we haven’t dealt with the issues very well. There were many factors involved, including important technological advances that made physical strength much less important in most jobs. As the economy shifted, there were an increasing number of jobs in which women could compete quite effectively with men.

    Even the non-radical 2nd wave feminists were naive and unrealistic, in my view. They insisted, incorrectly as it turns out, that men and women are equally suited for (and interested in) all fields, creating a quota mentality. Worse, they simply refused to face the biological facts, and the difficult trade-offs between motherhood and full-time work. Anyone pointing this out was vilified as a male chauvinist pig.

    There is a painful trade-off between motherhood and work. I think that you are correct in your observation that working women, especially of the Leftist and feminist variety, tend to denigrate motherhood. Not all of them, but many of them. I think that there is often guilt behind this dynamic, either for not having children at all, or for prioritizing career over motherhood to the detriment of spending additional time with the children.

    The problem is exacerbated by the fact that the key years for career development, and the key period in a woman’s biological clock, occur at the same time.

    I think that there are some creative solutions to this, but they would require recognizing the major biological differences between men and women, which generally puts them outside the bounds of permissible discussion.

    • #21
    • January 16, 2020, at 2:25 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  22. MarciN Member

    I read a book years ago by feminist scholar Mary Anne Ferguson called Images of Women in Literature. I read the first edition that came out in the 1970s. At the time, I could not bear to read novels or watch television or movies. I simply could not relate to the women pictured. Ferguson did a fantastic job identifying the poor image of women in the media. Her descriptions of the stereotypes come back to me often. They were so accurate. All negative. It’s better today, thank goodness. Women want exciting careers that command respect from society.

    • #22
    • January 16, 2020, at 2:29 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  23. She Reagan
    She Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Lilly B (View Comment):

    I’m interested in the answers to the questions @arizonapatriot asks.

    Separately, it seems like many people in general and on this thread are so congratulatory of women having more typically masculine interests and pursuits. That’s great for those women, but there doesn’t seem to be a similar enthusiasm for women who don’t want to play sports all the time or work in finance, law, or some other demanding field. I have 3 daughters who are very smart and competitive in their own ways, but I cannot get them to play sports outside of scheduled practices. However, they sing, draw, write, and play music constantly. They’re just girly. Isn’t that okay, too?

    That is totally OK! I don’t think anyone on this thread would disagree.

    A relative recently lamented that she was the only woman of a dozen people at a business dinner (she’s in finance). It’s great that she’s doing what she does, but why do other women have to follow her path until there’s at least 50% women at the dinner? I don’t think it’s sexism, but just the result of preferences. I wanted to point out that she is in her late 40s and doesn’t have children, so maybe that’s why she’s in a field that most women with children don’t choose.

    I didn’t get a “all women should pursue masculine pursuits,” or “we must have 50% women in the boardroom” vibe from this OP at all. In fact, I think the OP explicitly says just the opposite.

    • #23
    • January 16, 2020, at 2:32 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  24. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    Let me float an idea. Perhaps it’s not a good idea, so I’d like your responses.

    I propose that we should teach our daughters that being a good wife and a good mother should be their top priority in life. 

    I’d particularly like the reaction of the mature, wise ladies here at Ricochet. If you disagree, it strikes me that there are two possibilities, and I’d like your thoughts about whether: (1) we should teach our daughters that something else should be their top priority in life, or (2) whether we shouldn’t teach our daughters that they should have any particular top priority in life, or (3) whether there is some other possibility that I haven’t considered (nothing comes to mind, but perhaps I’m missing something).

    • #24
    • January 16, 2020, at 3:06 PM PST
    • Like
  25. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    MarciN (View Comment):
    I read a book years ago by feminist scholar Mary Anne Ferguson called Images of Women in Literature. I read the first edition that came out in the 1970s. At the time, I could not bear to read novels or watch television or movies. I simply could not relate to the women pictured. Ferguson did a fantastic job identifying the poor image of women in the media. Her descriptions of the stereotypes come back to me often. They were so accurate. All negative. It’s better today, thank goodness. But only because the media exalt women in the glamorous professions.

    Marci, could you elaborate? I would expect a “feminist scholar” to cherry-pick portrayals to support her point.

    I’m surveying my limited knowledge of great literature, thinking of positive and negative portrayals of women. I can think of a number on both sides, and it’s the same for the men, going all the way back to Homer and the Bible.

    I generally find feminists to be shameless liars. Right, women are portrayed negatively in the media. It’s all oppressive patriarchy. Never mind Katherine Hepburn, Maureen O’Hara, and Debbie Reynolds, just to name three of my favorites.

    • #25
    • January 16, 2020, at 3:33 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  26. Lilly B Coolidge

    She (View Comment):

    Lilly B (View Comment):

    A relative recently lamented that she was the only woman of a dozen people at a business dinner (she’s in finance). It’s great that she’s doing what she does, but why do other women have to follow her path until there’s at least 50% women at the dinner? I don’t think it’s sexism, but just the result of preferences. I wanted to point out that she is in her late 40s and doesn’t have children, so maybe that’s why she’s in a field that most women with children don’t choose.

    I didn’t get a “all women should pursue masculine pursuits,” or “we must have 50% women in the boardroom” vibe from this OP at all. In fact, I think the OP explicitly says just the opposite.

    Sorry that I wasn’t clear. It was the relative who was lamenting the lack of women in her field to whom I was attributing those conclusions. I agree that the OP is very supportive of all women to choose their own paths. I still see so much of the culture affirming the “strong is the new pretty” mindset. I want to stick up for my girly girls (not that they’re into makeup and fashion; they’re just not tomboys).

    I’m also in the middle of raising children and have at various times been a full-time working mom, a part-time working mom, a stay-at-home mom and an active volunteer. I know lots of great women managing the balance, but working women definitely get more accolades from society. I think I get more appreciation from my daughters when I am not juggling home and work. 

    • #26
    • January 16, 2020, at 3:48 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  27. Skyler Coolidge

    Semper fi, Jenna, and well said.

    On a side note, has anyone figured out how those pink hats are supposed to resemble any part of anyone’s anatomy?

    • #27
    • January 16, 2020, at 3:53 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  28. She Reagan
    She Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Semper fi, Jenna, and well said.

    On a side note, has anyone figured out how those pink hats are supposed to resemble any part of anyone’s anatomy?

    I’m deeply offended by those hats. Not so much because of their purported identity, but because most of them are so badly knit. Gives us knitters a bad name.

    Love
    Mme DeFarge

    • #28
    • January 16, 2020, at 3:57 PM PST
    • 9 likes
  29. MarciN Member

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):
    I read a book years ago by feminist scholar Mary Anne Ferguson called Images of Women in Literature. I read the first edition that came out in the 1970s. At the time, I could not bear to read novels or watch television or movies. I simply could not relate to the women pictured. Ferguson did a fantastic job identifying the poor image of women in the media. Her descriptions of the stereotypes come back to me often. They were so accurate. All negative. It’s better today, thank goodness. But only because the media exalt women in the glamorous professions.

    Marci, could you elaborate? I would expect a “feminist scholar” to cherry-pick portrayals to support her point.

    I’m surveying my limited knowledge of great literature, thinking of positive and negative portrayals of women. I can think of a number on both sides, and it’s the same for the men, going all the way back to Homer and the Bible.

    I generally find feminists to be shameless liars. Right, women are portrayed negatively in the media. It’s all oppressive patriarchy. Never mind Katherine Hepburn, Maureen O’Hara, and Debbie Reynolds, just to name three of my favorites.

    My favorites too. 

    I’m going back to the seventies in saying that the image of women in the media was really awful. The last thing any young girl would want to grow up to be was a “housewife” or “secretary.” :-)

    Katharine Hepburn was the person I most aspired to be like. (Never succeeded. :-) ) But men adored her for her incisive wit as much as anything else. She was a really cool person in every way. 

    I haven’t read the most current revisions of Ferguson’s book, but in the seventies, the image of women in the media was pretty negative. 

    It is much better today, thank goodness.

     

     

    • #29
    • January 16, 2020, at 4:22 PM PST
    • 1 like
  30. Skyler Coolidge

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    (3) Would you have passed the physical fitness requirements that would have applied if you had been a male Marine?

    Passing the physical fitness requirements of men by women is fairly rare, but possible. The thing is that male Marine officers do not simply pass the physical fitness requirements. Marine officers are expected to get a near maximum score on fitness tests.

     

    • #30
    • January 16, 2020, at 4:59 PM PST
    • 2 likes