Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. The FISA Court Finally Speaks

 

The FISA Court has issued an order in response to being deceived by the FBI, and they have rebuked the FBI for misleading them. That’s nice. I guess that makes it a tad more difficult for Schiff, Comey, et al., to lie about what the FBI did.

THEREFORE, the Court ORDERS that the government shall, no later than January 10, 2020, inform the Court in a sworn written submission of what it has done, and plans to do, to ensure that the statement of facts in each FBI application accurately and completely reflects information possessed by the FBI that is material to any issue presented by the application.

I’m sorry. This sounds a little too much like a “sternly worded letter,” if you know what I mean. No teeth. They disclose what the FBI did, but then tell the FBI to propose their own solution. Haven’t we had enough of flagrantly dishonest agencies policing themselves?

One caveat. The court demands that by today, 20 December 2019, the FBI complete a declassification review of a previous order from the court demanding answers to certain questions the court had regarding actions of an attorney in the Office of General Counsel. That’s the guy who altered the email to misrepresent the status of Carter Page as a government informant. The Court states it expects to release that document with minimal redactions subject to that declassification review.

So, today perhaps, we can expect a little more color than was provided by the IG report on what was going on at the FBI.

Reserving judgment until the details are released but, so far, not impressed!

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  1. SpiritO'78 Member

    I always wondered what the FISA court’s role was in ensuring accuracy. I can’t imagine they do much, or are expected to. The Feds investigate. The FISA judge probably gives the documents a quick look and nothing more.

    • #1
    • December 17, 2019, at 2:47 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  2. MichaelKennedy Coolidge

    This stuff all needs to be declassified. Personally, I think FISA should be repealed. Andy McCarthy has sounded close to that recently.

    • #2
    • December 17, 2019, at 2:53 PM PST
    • 10 likes
  3. DonG (skeptic) Coolidge

    The silence of the Senators is deafening. It feels like Rand Paul and Josh Hawley are the only ones paying attention.

    • #3
    • December 17, 2019, at 3:01 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  4. Randy Webster Member

    The FISA court sounds sort of rubber stampish. I don’t think they’ve ever denied the FBI a warrant.

    • #4
    • December 17, 2019, at 3:04 PM PST
    • 8 likes
  5. PHCheese Member

    The Court should call into court everyone who signed the dishonest warrants and hold them all in contempt and put them all in a hole for as long as legally possible. No questions asked.

    • #5
    • December 17, 2019, at 3:33 PM PST
    • 12 likes
  6. WillowSpring Member
    WillowSpring Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    The problem doesn’t seem to be a lack of procedures to ensure validity of the FISA applications, the problem is that the procedures are being violated in a most blatant way by those entrusted with carrying them out.

    The fix is not new procedures, it is new people and severe punishment to those who have violated the trust they held.

    • #6
    • December 17, 2019, at 3:49 PM PST
    • 11 likes
  7. DonG (skeptic) Coolidge

    Justice delayed is justice denied. Manafort is dying in jail while Comey is on a book tour. Shameful.

    • #7
    • December 17, 2019, at 3:49 PM PST
    • 14 likes
  8. DonG (skeptic) Coolidge

    Other presidents who should have been impeached according the legal standard of the DNC=Gary:

    George Washington
    John Adams
    Thomas Jefferson
    James Madison
    James Monroe
    John Quincy Adams
    Andrew Jackson
    Martin Van Buren
    William Henry Harrison
    John Tyler
    James K. Polk
    Zachary Taylor
    Millard Fillmore
    Franklin Pierce
    James Buchanan
    Abraham Lincoln
    Andrew Johnson
    Ulysses S. Grant
    Rutherford B. Hayes
    James Garfield
    Chester A. Arthur
    Grover Cleveland
    Benjamin Harrison
    Grover Cleveland
    William McKinley
    Theodore Roosevelt
    William Howard Taft
    Woodrow Wilson
    Warren G. Harding
    Calvin Coolidge
    Herbert Hoover
    Franklin D. Roosevelt
    Harry S. Truman
    Dwight D. Eisenhower
    John F. Kennedy
    Lyndon B. Johnson
    Richard M. Nixon
    Gerald R. Ford
    James Carter
    Ronald Reagan
    George H. W. Bush
    William J. Clinton
    George W. Bush
    Barack Obama

    • #8
    • December 17, 2019, at 3:58 PM PST
    • 6 likes
  9. EDISONPARKS Member
    EDISONPARKS Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    “But I’m sorry. This sounds a little too much like a “sternly worded letter” if you know what I mean.”

    It’s the old you’re really in trouble this time mister routine you used to get from your father recited for the benefit of your mother.

    • #9
    • December 17, 2019, at 4:03 PM PST
    • 8 likes
  10. Jim George Member

    PHCheese (View Comment):

    The Court should call into court everyone who signed the dishonest warrants and hold them all in contempt and put them all in a hole for as long as legally possible. No questions asked.

    I couldn’t possibly do better than to quote Kim Strassel’s tweets of a few hours ago, as they are so spot on:

    @KimStrassel 1) It’s great that the FISA court slammed the FBI and acknowledged the obvious–that deceiving a surveillance court is a grave thing. But the follow on order is pathetic, as it is essentially: Please tell us how you intend to do better. Really?2) Courts have the ability to discipline those who undermine the integrity of a court’s functions. They can even appoint special investigators. Is the court not curious if this behavior happened in other warrants? And if court-imposed sanction isn’t relevant here, when is it? I have made this observation before but, especially considering this Milquetoast of an “Order”, it is, in the true sense of the word, incomprehensible to me that a Federal Court would allow two years to pass after the world knew they had been lied to without uttering a single word, and then to come down with this pathetic statement telling the Members of the Bar who LIED to them to go forth and do good, or, in this case, better. I feel so strongly about this due to years of dealing with Federal Judges, and many State Judges as well, who would have, about two years ago, issued a Show Cause Order to these FBI swine to show cause why they should not be held in open and contumacious contempt of Court, followed by a disbarment Order from that particular Court, followed by a referral to the State Bar Association for the most draconian possible disciplinary action possible under the applicable Rules of Professional Conduct. And those would just be the first steps for a number of Judges I dealt with. And this Court says, in effect, now y’all are just going to have to do better or I’m just going to have to do something, sometime, some day, some how. Maybe. Inexplicable. 

    • #10
    • December 17, 2019, at 4:12 PM PST
    • 13 likes
  11. Susan Quinn Contributor

    Devin Nunes just said on Fox news that he sent two letters to the FISA court describing the omissions from the applications made by the FBI. Crickets, I guess.

    • #11
    • December 17, 2019, at 4:15 PM PST
    • 6 likes
  12. Unsk Member

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    The FISA court sounds sort of rubber stampish. I don’t think they’ve ever denied the FBI a warrant.

    Randy, Some have said ( unverified) that the denial rate is 1 in 10,000. To get a scope and magnitude of the problem in 2017 alone there were 3,100,000 702 searches on the NSA database by FBI “contractors”. That a means the government spied on American citizens over 3 million times in 2017 alone. In the Admiral Rogers audit of 2016 87% of those searches were found to be politically based. 

    • #12
    • December 17, 2019, at 4:26 PM PST
    • 12 likes
  13. Addiction Is A Choice Member

    “We will be very, very angry with you! And we will write you a letter telling you how angry we are.”

    • #13
    • December 17, 2019, at 4:27 PM PST
    • 10 likes
  14. Sweezle Member

    I remain unimpressed with the FISA court. Writing a letter was not enough.

    • #14
    • December 17, 2019, at 4:29 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  15. Unsk Member

    Susan: “Devin Nunes just said on Fox news that he sent two letters to the FISA court describing the omissions from the applications made by the FBI. Crickets, I guess.”

    According to Sundance at CTH, she did respond and downplayed the threat. She essentially told Congress and the Executive branch to work it out somehow.

    But it is not like she wasn’t warned. The only positive is that she ordered her ruling to be totally declassified and released to the public.

    • #15
    • December 17, 2019, at 4:32 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  16. Susan Quinn Contributor

    Unsk (View Comment):
    he only positive is that she ordered her ruling to be totally declassified and released to the public.

    I’m going to guess that she did that to cover her you-know-what. “I did my part . . . “

    • #16
    • December 17, 2019, at 4:36 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  17. Percival Thatcher
    Percival Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    It might be nothing, but one time Grandma sent me out to cut my own switch.

    In other words, there’s always the chance that if the court doesn’t like the response, they come up with their own solutions.

    • #17
    • December 17, 2019, at 4:40 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  18. EDISONPARKS Member
    EDISONPARKS Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Jim George (View Comment):

    PHCheese (View Comment):

    The Court should call into court everyone who signed the dishonest warrants and hold them all in contempt and put them all in a hole for as long as legally possible. No questions asked.

    I couldn’t possibly do better than to quote Kim Strassel’s tweets of a few hours ago, as they are so spot on:

    @KimStrassel 1) It’s great that the FISA court slammed the FBI and acknowledged the obvious–that deceiving a surveillance court is a grave thing. But the follow on order is pathetic, as it is essentially: Please tell us how you intend to do better. Really?2) Courts have the ability to discipline those who undermine the integrity of a court’s functions. They can even appoint special investigators. Is the court not curious if this behavior happened in other warrants? And if court-imposed sanction isn’t relevant here, when is it? I have made this observation before but, especially considering this Milquetoast of an “Order”, it is, in the true sense of the word, incomprehensible to me that a Federal Court would allow two years to pass after the world knew they had been lied to without uttering a single word, and then to come down with this pathetic statement telling the Members of the Bar who LIED to them to go forth and do good, or, in this case, better. I feel so strongly about this due to years of dealing with Federal Judges, and many State Judges as well, who would have, about two years ago, issued a Show Cause Order to these FBI swine to show cause why they should not be held in open and contumacious contempt of Court, followed by a disbarment Order from that particular Court, followed by a referral to the State Bar Association for the most draconian possible disciplinary action possible under the applicable Rules of Professional Conduct. And those would just be the first steps for a number of Judges I dealt with. And this Court says, in effect, now y’all are just going to have to do better or I’m just going to have to do something, sometime, some day, some how. Maybe. Inexplicable.

    Could be the FISA Court know they are culpable for rubber stamping FISA applications and they don’t want to get into a tit for tat with the FBI/DOJ who may push back and expose the FISA judges ineptitude/malpractice?

    • #18
    • December 17, 2019, at 5:53 PM PST
    • 6 likes
  19. TBA Coolidge
    TBA

    WillowSpring (View Comment):

    The problem doesn’t seem to be a lack of procedures to ensure validity of the FISA applications, the problem is that the procedures are being violated in a most blatant way by those entrusted with carrying them out.

    The fix is not new procedures, it is new people and severe punishment to those who have violated the trust they held.

    Agreed. The FISA courts should refuse all FISA requests until the violators are removed from government and measures are put in place to prevent these abuses from happening in the future. 

    If they can do this to a president, what have they been doing all along to We the Little Peoople. Anyone with extraordinary powers must receive extraordinary punishment for the abuse of those powers. 

    • #19
    • December 18, 2019, at 2:54 AM PST
    • 8 likes
  20. TBA Coolidge
    TBA

    Jim George (View Comment):

    PHCheese (View Comment):

    The Court should call into court everyone who signed the dishonest warrants and hold them all in contempt and put them all in a hole for as long as legally possible. No questions asked.

    I couldn’t possibly do better than to quote Kim Strassel’s tweets of a few hours ago, as they are so spot on:

    @KimStrassel 1) It’s great that the FISA court slammed the FBI and acknowledged the obvious–that deceiving a surveillance court is a grave thing. But the follow on order is pathetic, as it is essentially: Please tell us how you intend to do better. Really?2) Courts have the ability to discipline those who undermine the integrity of a court’s functions. They can even appoint special investigators. Is the court not curious if this behavior happened in other warrants? And if court-imposed sanction isn’t relevant here, when is it? I have made this observation before but, especially considering this Milquetoast of an “Order”, it is, in the true sense of the word, incomprehensible to me that a Federal Court would allow two years to pass after the world knew they had been lied to without uttering a single word, and then to come down with this pathetic statement telling the Members of the Bar who LIED to them to go forth and do good, or, in this case, better. I feel so strongly about this due to years of dealing with Federal Judges, and many State Judges as well, who would have, about two years ago, issued a Show Cause Order to these FBI swine to show cause why they should not be held in open and contumacious contempt of Court, followed by a disbarment Order from that particular Court, followed by a referral to the State Bar Association for the most draconian possible disciplinary action possible under the applicable Rules of Professional Conduct. And those would just be the first steps for a number of Judges I dealt with. And this Court says, in effect, now y’all are just going to have to do better or I’m just going to have to do something, sometime, some day, some how. Maybe. Inexplicable.

    Black holes are detected through other objects behaving oddly around them; what is it that is invisible to us that makes government people behave so unnaturally?

    • #20
    • December 18, 2019, at 3:05 AM PST
    • 3 likes
  21. Stad Thatcher

    JesseMcVay: Reserving judgement until 20 December

    I am too, but who knows? Things just keep getting weirder, so maybe something will actually happen, like the FISA court boycotting all FBI requests until the issue is resolved.

    • #21
    • December 18, 2019, at 6:42 AM PST
    • 1 like
  22. PHenry Member

    Randy Webster (View Comment):
    The FISA court sounds sort of rubber stampish. I don’t think they’ve ever denied the FBI a warrant.

    Unsk (View Comment):
    Randy, Some have said ( unverified) that the denial rate is 1 in 10,000.

    But incredibly, the initial Carter Page warrant was denied. Only after they added the Steel ‘dossier’ was it awarded. Which shows how flimsy it was, it needed unverified lies to make it sound credible enough even for the rubber stamp!

    • #22
    • December 18, 2019, at 7:31 AM PST
    • 3 likes
  23. The Reticulator Member

    TBA (View Comment):
    Black holes are detected through other objects behaving oddly around them; what is it that is invisible to us that makes government people behave so unnaturally?

    Double-very good. 

    • #23
    • December 18, 2019, at 7:38 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  24. JesseMcVay Coolidge
    JesseMcVay

    TBA (View Comment):
    Black holes are detected through other objects behaving oddly around them; what is it that is invisible to us that makes government people behave so unnaturally?

    That’s a great analogy and a really good question. I’d like to think it was knowledge of details of which we are unaware. I think it is more likely to be corruption. For instance, I’m really disappointed in the lackluster response by Director Wray to the revelations of how poorly the FBI performed regarding this FISA scandal. I’d like to think that he is waiting for John Durham to complete his work and file indictments against the perpetrators. But I’m worried that the real reason for his less than forceful response is that he is trying to protect the reputation of his institution.

    • #24
    • December 18, 2019, at 8:04 AM PST
    • 6 likes
  25. Stad Thatcher

    JesseMcVay (View Comment):
    I’d like to think it was knowledge of details of which we are unaware.

    Or fear they’ll end up wearing stripes and being called “sweetheart” by their cell mates . . .

    • #25
    • December 18, 2019, at 2:23 PM PST
    • 1 like
  26. Clifford A. Brown Contributor

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    The FISA court sounds sort of rubber stampish. I don’t think they’ve ever denied the FBI a warrant.

    Sorta:

    The secretive surveillance court President Trump has accused of authorizing warrants improperly targeting his 2016 election campaign rejected a record number of applications during his first year in office, Congress learned Wednesday.

    The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court last year denied 26 applications in full and 50 applications in part, the director of the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts wrote in a report sent to lawmakers.

    Established by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) of 1978, the court rejected a combined total of only 21 applications in the roughly 40 years it existed before Mr. Trump’s inauguration, earning it a reputation over the decades as a “rubber stamp” court that rarely refuses to let authorities secretly surveil individuals in the U.S. accused of being spies or terrorists.

    • #26
    • December 19, 2019, at 7:50 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  27. Clifford A. Brown Contributor

    JesseMcVay (View Comment):
    he is trying to protect the power reputation of his institution.

    Yes. Accountability would restore a rightful level of positive reputation, based in facts and observable behavior.

    • #27
    • December 19, 2019, at 7:52 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  28. Clifford A. Brown Contributor

    Stad (View Comment):

    JesseMcVay: Reserving judgement until 20 December

    I am too, but who knows? Things just keep getting weirder, so maybe something will actually happen, like the FISA court boycotting all FBI requests until the issue is resolved.

    Kabuki theater, unless and until they order the lawyers who appeared before them in the past to appear and show cause why they should not be referred for disbarment. 

    • #28
    • December 19, 2019, at 7:54 PM PST
    • 1 like
  29. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge

    At this point they need to be closed and any cases that were made from info collected from it need to retried without that information or dismissed.

    • #29
    • December 19, 2019, at 8:40 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  30. colleenb Member
    colleenb Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    The FISA court sounds sort of rubber stampish. I don’t think they’ve ever denied the FBI a warrant.

    At the very least it would be interesting to see the statistics. I do think the Senate Intelligence committee needs to have a closed session with all current and previous judges and (1) take them to task and (2) ask how things need to be changed. The fact that none of the judges (that we know of) have expressed any outrage up to now does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

    • #30
    • December 20, 2019, at 7:16 AM PST
    • 3 likes