Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. A Very Simple Answer to Impeachment Charges

 

Did President Trump pressure President Zelensky of Ukraine? The Democrats say yes he did and, because Ukraine is so dependent upon America and President Trump is so powerful, Zelensky is afraid to say he was pressured. Both Trump and Zelensky many times have publicly denied any pressure.

With Trump facing impeachment and the entire world watching, why would Zelensky be afraid? He need only say that he was pressured and Trump would be gone. Both articles of impeachment are based on that simple question. They are in the principal’s office and if Zelensky said he was bullied by Trump, the bully would be kicked out of school.

If there wasn’t any pressure, of course, the Democrats will just make up something else.

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There are 23 comments.

  1. Arahant Member

    PHCheese: Of course the Democrats would just make up something else.

    They have already said they will. If he dares to win in 2020, we will see it all again.

    • #1
    • December 13, 2019, at 8:25 AM PST
    • 3 likes
  2. Juliana Member

    Arahant (View Comment):

    PHCheese: Of course the Democrats would just make up something else.

    They have already said they will. If he dares to win in 2020, we will see it all again.

    This is so disheartening. At what point do even the democrat voters say, “Enough already, let’s move on.”

    • #2
    • December 13, 2019, at 8:30 AM PST
    • 6 likes
  3. Arahant Member

    Juliana (View Comment):
    At what point do even the democrat voters say, “Enough already, let’s move on.”

    When they win everything.

    • #3
    • December 13, 2019, at 8:36 AM PST
    • 7 likes
  4. Seawriter Member

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Juliana (View Comment):
    At what point do even the democrat voters say, “Enough already, let’s move on.”

    When they win everything.

    Which is why – until Trump started pushing back – they were always winning. 

    • #4
    • December 13, 2019, at 8:55 AM PST
    • 13 likes
  5. Bob Thompson Member

    PHCheese: The point I would like to make is with Trump facing impeachment and the entire world watching why would Zelensky be afraid? All he would need do was say he was pressured and Trump is gone.

    There is a clear record of pressure on Ukraine politicians from the Obama Administration. Vice-President Joe Biden had himself recorded bragging before the Council on Foreign Relations with a description of what method he used to coerce the firing of the Ukrainian Prosecutor-General. The method Biden used involved withholding a billion dollar loan guarantee that was to benefit Ukraine. That pressure worked. The Prosecutor-General was fired.

    Zelensky is smart to avoid going back to that Democrat regime. 

    My question to you is why in the world would he want to revert to the previous arrangement where pressure is assured?

    • #5
    • December 13, 2019, at 9:03 AM PST
    • 12 likes
  6. Stad Thatcher

    PHCheese: The point I would like to make is with Trump facing impeachment and the entire world watching why would Zelensky be afraid? All he would need do was say he was pressured and Trump is gone.

    Good point!

    • #6
    • December 13, 2019, at 9:31 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  7. Umbra Fractus, cum Insigne Lincoln
    Umbra Fractus, cum Insigne Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    The Democrats’ big mistake was going all in on impeachment. If they had settled for censure not only would it have likely passed, but they probably would have gotten a few Republican votes. To use your school metaphor: The Democrats demanded expulsion when detention would have sufficed. Because of their overreach it is likely that not only will the President get off with no punishment at all, the Democrats will likely be shamed at best. 

    This was a huge mistake on the part of the Democrats, but I’d put the likelihood of them learning their lesson at about 20% at best.

    • #7
    • December 13, 2019, at 10:43 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  8. Arahant Member

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):
    This was a huge mistake on the part of the Democrats, but I’d put the likelihood of them learning their lesson at about 20% at best.

    Why, you sunny-eyed optimist, you.

    • #8
    • December 13, 2019, at 10:46 AM PST
    • 11 likes
  9. Umbra Fractus, cum Insigne Lincoln
    Umbra Fractus, cum Insigne Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):
    This was a huge mistake on the part of the Democrats, but I’d put the likelihood of them learning their lesson at about 20% at best.

    Why, you sunny-eyed optimist, you.

    I did say, “At best.”

    • #9
    • December 13, 2019, at 10:48 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  10. Bob Thompson Member

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):
    This was a huge mistake on the part of the Democrats, but I’d put the likelihood of them learning their lesson at about 20% at best.

    Why, you sunny-eyed optimist, you.

    Yeah. None of that 20% is on the Judicial Committee or the Intelligence Committee.

    • #10
    • December 13, 2019, at 10:49 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  11. Gumby Mark (R-Meth Lab of Demo… Thatcher

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    The Democrats’ big mistake was going all in on impeachment. If they had settled for censure not only would it have likely passed, but they probably would have gotten a few Republican votes. To use your school metaphor: The Democrats demanded expulsion when detention would have sufficed. Because of their overreach it is likely that not only will the President get off with no punishment at all, the Democrats will likely be shamed at best.

    This was a huge mistake on the part of the Democrats, but I’d put the likelihood of them learning their lesson at about 20% at best.

    Same mistake the GOP made in 1998 with Clinton. 

    • #11
    • December 13, 2019, at 11:39 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  12. PHCheese Member
    PHCheese

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):
    This was a huge mistake on the part of the Democrats, but I’d put the likelihood of them learning their lesson at about 20% at best.

    Why, you sunny-eyed optimist, you.

    Yeah. None of that 20% is on the Judicial Committee or the Intelligence Committee.

    Democrats on the Intelligence Committee is an oxymoron .

    • #12
    • December 13, 2019, at 11:47 AM PST
    • 6 likes
  13. WillowSpring Member
    WillowSpring Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    PHCheese: The Democrats say yes he did and because the Ukraine is so dependent upon America and President Trump is so powerful Zelensky is afraid to say he was pressured.

    Don’t forget that Trump is also taller than Zelensky – adding even more pressure according to Hank (“Will Guam tip over”) Johnson.

    • #13
    • December 13, 2019, at 12:02 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  14. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    The Democrats’ big mistake was going all in on impeachment. If they had settled for censure not only would it have likely passed, but they probably would have gotten a few Republican votes. To use your school metaphor: The Democrats demanded expulsion when detention would have sufficed. Because of their overreach it is likely that not only will the President get off with no punishment at all, the Democrats will likely be shamed at best.

    This was a huge mistake on the part of the Democrats, but I’d put the likelihood of them learning their lesson at about 20% at best.

    Because censure does not remove Trump from office and that is the goal.

    • #14
    • December 13, 2019, at 12:40 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  15. OkieSailor Member
    OkieSailor Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Juliana (View Comment):
    At what point do even the democrat voters say, “Enough already, let’s move on.”

    When they win everything.

    No actually there is no end to Socialism except the grave since there can never be enough funding for any give away program. So if they win everything they will just accelerate their demands not end them.

    • #15
    • December 13, 2019, at 1:32 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  16. OkieSailor Member
    OkieSailor Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):
    I’d put the likelihood of them learning their lesson at about 20%

    That seems a bit high to me ;>)

    • #16
    • December 13, 2019, at 1:34 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  17. OkieSailor Member
    OkieSailor Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    PHCheese (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):
    This was a huge mistake on the part of the Democrats, but I’d put the likelihood of them learning their lesson at about 20% at best.

    Why, you sunny-eyed optimist, you.

    Yeah. None of that 20% is on the Judicial Committee or the Intelligence Committee.

    Democrats on the Intelligence Committee is an oxymoron .

    No there were actual reasons to impeach Clinton, perjury comes to mind.

    • #17
    • December 13, 2019, at 1:35 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  18. OkieSailor Member
    OkieSailor Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    The Democrats’ big mistake was going all in on impeachment. If they had settled for censure not only would it have likely passed, but they probably would have gotten a few Republican votes. To use your school metaphor: The Democrats demanded expulsion when detention would have sufficed. Because of their overreach it is likely that not only will the President get off with no punishment at all, the Democrats will likely be shamed at best.

    This was a huge mistake on the part of the Democrats, but I’d put the likelihood of them learning their lesson at about 20% at best.

    Because censure does not remove Trump from office and that is the goal.

    The real goal is to prevent re-election.

    • #18
    • December 13, 2019, at 1:36 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  19. PHCheese Member
    PHCheese

    OkieSailor (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    The Democrats’ big mistake was going all in on impeachment. If they had settled for censure not only would it have likely passed, but they probably would have gotten a few Republican votes. To use your school metaphor: The Democrats demanded expulsion when detention would have sufficed. Because of their overreach it is likely that not only will the President get off with no punishment at all, the Democrats will likely be shamed at best.

    This was a huge mistake on the part of the Democrats, but I’d put the likelihood of them learning their lesson at about 20% at best.

    Because censure does not remove Trump from office and that is the goal.

    The real goal is to prevent re-election.

    This is true but I think their long game is to also win back the Senate. They will use the up coming Republican exoneration of Trump against them next year.

    • #19
    • December 13, 2019, at 2:21 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  20. Franco Member
    Franco Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    The Democrats are flying blind and flailing. It looks to me that their left wing base were clamoring for blood, their media overlords/enablers wanted it also. Nancy tried to finesse it by holding ‘hearings’ but she couldn’t control it. They didn’t expect the Republicans to be so unified and put up such a fuss ( hopefully those days of appeasement are over) and they thought they could score damage points on Trump.

    Trouble was, they’ve already spent all their ammunition on the Mueller thing and 24/7 media vilification, so this was just more of the same. Americans have chosen sides already, and those few who hadn’t got disgusted. 

    Now they’ve given us a concrete reason and teal incentives to flip the House back. Massive fail! I love it!!!

     

    • #20
    • December 13, 2019, at 2:42 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  21. PHCheese Member
    PHCheese

    Franco (View Comment):

    The Democrats are flying blind and flailing. It looks to me that their left wing base were clamoring for blood, their media overlords/enablers wanted it also. Nancy tried to finesse it by holding ‘hearings’ but she couldn’t control it. They didn’t expect the Republicans to be so unified and put up such a fuss ( hopefully those days of appeasement are over) and they thought they could score damage points on Trump.

    Trouble was, they’ve already spent all their ammunition on the Mueller thing and 24/7 media vilification, so this was just more of the same. Americans have chosen sides already, and those few who hadn’t got disgusted.

    Now they’ve given us a concrete reason and teal incentives to flip the House back. Massive fail! I love it!!!

     

    Democrats might be happy to give up the House for the Senate because of the supreme court picks. Just saying.

    • #21
    • December 13, 2019, at 4:15 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  22. Stad Thatcher

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    The Democrats’ big mistake was going all in on impeachment. If they had settled for censure not only would it have likely passed, but they probably would have gotten a few Republican votes. To use your school metaphor: The Democrats demanded expulsion when detention would have sufficed. Because of their overreach it is likely that not only will the President get off with no punishment at all, the Democrats will likely be shamed at best.

    This was a huge mistake on the part of the Democrats, but I’d put the likelihood of them learning their lesson at about 20% at best.

    Because censure does not remove Trump from office and that is the goal.

    True, but when the goal changes to saving House seats, then censure will be the solution . . .

    • #22
    • December 14, 2019, at 7:41 AM PST
    • 3 likes
  23. PHCheese Member
    PHCheese

    The charge of obstruction of Congress is nullified because SCOTUS agreed to hear three cases brought by the Trump Administration regarding subpoenas from Congress on Friday.

    • #23
    • December 15, 2019, at 5:19 PM PST
    • 1 like