Dem Debate Wrap-up: October in Ohio

 

Twelve candidates. Three hours. And one guy dumb enough to watch it.

CNN and the New York Times teamed up Tuesday night for the latest cattle call. The contestants were Biden, Booker, Buttigieg, Castro, Gabbard, Harris, Klobuchar, O’Rourke, Sanders, Warren, Yang, and in his first debate appearance, businessman Tom Steyer. They met in Ohio at Otterbein University, which apparently is a real school.

For the first time, candidates focused most of their attacks on Sen. Elizabeth Warren instead of  Joe Biden. Her polling rise to second-place has its disadvantages. Warren gave a typically polished performance, promising free-this and free-that, but kept dodging the trillions in tax hikes required. Instead, she promised that the ultra-rich will pay for everything.

“If we put a two-cent tax on their 50 millionth and first dollar, and on every dollar after that,” Warren said, “we would have enough money to provide universal childcare for every baby in this country, age zero to five, universal pre-K for every child, raise the wages of every childcare worker and preschool teacher in America, provide for universal tuition-free college, put $50 billion into historically black colleges and universities…”

The moderator cut her off at that point and hopefully handed her a calculator.

When Warren flatly refused to say “yes” or “no” to raising everyone’s taxes, other candidates called her out. “This is why people here in the Midwest are so frustrated with Washington in general and Capitol Hill in particular,” Pete Buttigieg said. “Your signature, Senator, is to have a plan for everything. Except this.”

But CNN still likes what Warren’s selling, even protecting her from certain attacks. Tulsi Gabbard masterfully took down Kamala Harris in her last appearance and, on Tuesday, aimed for Warren.

“I’d like to start with Sen. Warren,” Gabbard asked, “what her experience and background is to serve as commander-in-chief.” CNN cut her off mid-sentence and broke for a commercial. Considering the anti-Tulsi hit pieces by both CNN and the New York Times, their treatment was unsurprising.

Castro, Yang, and Gabbard had a good night but the moderators gave them so little time, viewers likely forgot they were on stage.

Biden was his usual clunky self, fumbling phrases and gaffeing it up, but maintained his energy for all 180 minutes. (No small feat if you watched the first debate.)

He promised, “I would eliminate the capital gains tax — I would raise the capital gains tax to the highest rate, of 39.5 percent,” and said he “was able to end Roe” before abruptly praising abortion.

Even so, with all the pie-in-the-sky promises being dished out, Biden seemed like the only sober guy at the bar. He focused on legislation that could actually be accomplished instead of promising free sex changes to border-crossing leprechauns.

For being fresh off a heart attack, Bernie Sanders was still yelling about billionaires, attacking them in every answer. Review any Sanders debate line since 1927 and you’d end up with his argument Tuesday night.

Sanders reassured supporters that he’s up for the job healthwise and closed the evening with a rare moment of gratitude for his colleagues’ “love, for their prayers, for their well wishes.” After a zillion-year career of nonstop complaining, the moment was jarring and welcome.

Trump’s abandonment of Kurdish allies in Syria drew further contrasts between the candidates. In his answer, Biden sounded like he wanted to invade Syria and Turkey. Gabbard called for an end to “regime-change wars” while fellow veteran Buttigieg said we should have stayed the course.

“The slaughter going on in Syria is not a consequence of America’s presence,” he replied, “it’s a consequence of a withdrawal and betrayal by this president of American allies and values.”

Beto O’Rourke remains the ever-shrinking candidate. He confirmed his plan to eliminate every AR-15 in America but still has no clue how to accomplish it. “We don’t go door-to-door to do anything in this country to enforce the law,” O’Rourke said. “I expect Republicans, Democrats, gun-owners, non-gun-owners alike to respect and follow the law.”

Surprisingly, Julián Castro gave Beto a nearly libertarian response. “In the places that I grew up in, we weren’t exactly looking for another reason for cops to come banging on the door.”

Cory Booker kept to his peacemaker role. “I’ve had the privilege of working with or being friends with everybody on this stage,” he said, “and tearing each other down because we have a different plan to me is unacceptable.” At this point, Booker’s campaigning to be vice president.

Oh, and Amy Klobuchar was there. She was fine. She’s always fine. She just never says anything memorable.

Not fine was Tom Steyer. It’s unclear how he ended up on stage instead of the dozen other no-chance Dems, but he made zero impact.

Published in Politics
Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 84 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. DrewInWisconsin, Influencer Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Influencer
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Jeff Hawkins (View Comment):

    Which is why I cringe when I see someone like Jonathan V Last of the Bulwark, he of the virtuous wing of Conservatism, who opined this morning:

    So let’s clear a couple things up: I’m not anti-Warren by any means. I like her!

    We need to stop pretending these people are conservative.

    • #31
  2. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Jeff Hawkins (View Comment):

    She wasn’t fired due to a pregnancy, and she rose above her station by lying about her ethnicity. She was never a victim and worse yet, she stole someone else’s

    Which is why I cringe when I see someone like Jonathan V Last of the Bulwark, he of the virtuous wing of Conservatism, who opined this morning:

    So let’s clear a couple things up: I’m not anti-Warren by any means. I like her!

    Jeff,

    You are totally on target here. Jonathan V Last needs to have his head examined if he likes her?! Anyone with an ounce of integrity left would loathe her.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #32
  3. DrewInWisconsin, Influencer Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Influencer
    @DrewInWisconsin

    James Gawron (View Comment):
    You are totally on target here. Jonathan V Last needs to have his head examined if he likes her?! Anyone with an ounce of integrity left would loathe her.

    But OrAnGe MaN bAd.

    • #33
  4. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    DrewInWisconsin, Influencer (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):
    You are totally on target here. Jonathan V Last needs to have his head examined if he likes her?! Anyone with an ounce of integrity left would loathe her.

    But OrAnGe MaN bAd.

    Drew,

    Yes, you have stated the prime postulate that never-Trump will never give up. Even if the Democrats announce that they are repealing the Law of Gravity. Even if the Democrats decide to solve the population/environment problem with a new updated version of soylent green.

    It just doesn’t matter. ORANGE MAN BAD!

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #34
  5. Jeff Hawkins Inactive
    Jeff Hawkins
    @JeffHawkins

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Anyone with an ounce of integrity left would loathe her.

    Regards,

    Jim

    To be fair to Last, his statement is that he and Warren share cynical views on the virtues of “pure” capitalism although I assume Last’s issue is the displacement of organizations of traditional values.

    • #35
  6. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Influencer (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):
    You are totally on target here. Jonathan V Last needs to have his head examined if he likes her?! Anyone with an ounce of integrity left would loathe her.

    But OrAnGe MaN bAd.

    Drew,

    Yes, you have stated the prime postulate that never-Trump will never give up. Even if the Democrats announce that they are repealing the Law of Gravity. Even if the Democrats decide to solve the population/environment problem with a new updated version of soylent green.

    It just doesn’t matter. ORANGE MAN BAD!

    Regards,

    Jim

    Y’know all those movies where the upper class person can’t abide the manners of the lower class suitor such that even the sounds of his or her voice causes wincing? And how the viewer can plainly see the suitor’s good qualities, but the delicate sensibilities of class prevent the natural and desired marriage? 

    Never-Trump. 

    • #36
  7. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Jeff Hawkins (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Anyone with an ounce of integrity left would loathe her.

    Regards,

    Jim

    To be fair to Last, his statement is that he and Warren share cynical views on the virtues of “pure” capitalism although I assume Last’s issue is the displacement of organizations of traditional values.

    Jeff,

    What a stretch. Maybe Last shared Stalin’s enjoyment of smoking a pipe. He just missed the part about murdering 30 million people.  That she is trivially correct about “pure capitalism” which crudely agrees with Last’s view, makes Last look all the more of an idiot.

    Warren’s economic policies could put an end to this country but Jonathan likes her. Just great.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #37
  8. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Regarding all the talk of making “the rich” pay for everything – has there ever been a tax on rich (or high income) people that hasn’t ended up impacting a lot of other people?

    The federal income tax was initially to apply only to a few of the riches people (and was to be “just a couple of percent”)

    The federal Alternative Minimum Tax that initially applied to something like 50 people, but ended up applying to millions of people

    The federal “luxury” goods tax on airplanes, boats, and cars that ended up mostly putting out of work middle income skilled craftsmen who were building nice boats (that tax was for that reason ended before it could be extended to cover every car and boat)

    Etc.

    Everyone should assume that whatever tax is proposed for “millionaires and billionaires” will find its way to the $300,000 retirement account held by the engineer, the teacher, the nurse, or the plumber.

    • #38
  9. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Gary McVey (View Comment):
    In the top three: Sanders was sharper and more energetic than before. When people say “At least Bernie is honest”, it sounds condescending, but it’s accurate; compared to dishonest leftists like Harris, it stands out.

    Bernie’s only partially honest. He does at least acknowledge that his plans would hit everybody, not just the “billionaires” (now that it has been so widely reported that he is a millionaire and so he has had to stop demonizing “millionaires and billionaires”).

    But he is dishonest in that he keeps saying he’s going to make the United States like Denmark but his policy descriptions are more Soviet Union than Denmark.

    Even if he were actually proposing turning the United States into Denmark, he hasn’t specified what he’s going to do with all the brown and black people he’ll have to get rid of to make the United States as racially and culturally uniform as Denmark is.

    • #39
  10. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Regarding all the talk of making “the rich” pay for everything – has there ever been a tax on rich (or high income) people that hasn’t ended up impacting a lot of other people?

    The federal income tax was initially to apply only to a few of the riches people (and was to be “just a couple of percent”)

    The federal Alternative Minimum Tax that initially applied to something like 50 people, but ended up applying to millions of people

    The federal “luxury” goods tax on airplanes, boats, and cars that ended up mostly putting out of work middle income skilled craftsmen who were building nice boats (that tax was for that reason ended before it could be extended to cover every car and boat)

    Etc.

    Everyone should assume that whatever tax is proposed for “millionaires and billionaires” will find its way to the $300,000 retirement account held by the engineer, the teacher, the nurse, or the plumber.

    Soak the rich; drown the middle class. 

    • #40
  11. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    TBA (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Regarding all the talk of making “the rich” pay for everything – has there ever been a tax on rich (or high income) people that hasn’t ended up impacting a lot of other people?

    The federal income tax was initially to apply only to a few of the riches people (and was to be “just a couple of percent”)

    The federal Alternative Minimum Tax that initially applied to something like 50 people, but ended up applying to millions of people

    The federal “luxury” goods tax on airplanes, boats, and cars that ended up mostly putting out of work middle income skilled craftsmen who were building nice boats (that tax was for that reason ended before it could be extended to cover every car and boat)

    Etc.

    Everyone should assume that whatever tax is proposed for “millionaires and billionaires” will find its way to the $300,000 retirement account held by the engineer, the teacher, the nurse, or the plumber.

    Soak the rich; drown the middle class.

    Because the point of the exercise is after-tax income, the “rich” will shift away from productive investments and toward tax shelters.

    The end result is more damage to the economy and less revenue raised than expected.

    And, because of the latter, middle class taxpayers are stuck with the bill, as in the Scandinavian countries.

    • #41
  12. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):

    Warren and the rest of the bunch had the same talking points they have every campaign – and yet, when they’re in charge, they accomplish none of it, except multi-gender bathrooms. Maybe because none of it is achievable, desirable or fair – a disheveled pile of nothingness.

    I don’t know. They seem to accomplish a lot.  Like Obama Care.  They don’t waste an opportunity when they have one.

    • #42
  13. Ralphie Inactive
    Ralphie
    @Ralphie

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Regarding all the talk of making “the rich” pay for everything – has there ever been a tax on rich (or high income) people that hasn’t ended up impacting a lot of other people?

    The federal income tax was initially to apply only to a few of the riches people (and was to be “just a couple of percent”)

    The federal Alternative Minimum Tax that initially applied to something like 50 people, but ended up applying to millions of people

    The federal “luxury” goods tax on airplanes, boats, and cars that ended up mostly putting out of work middle income skilled craftsmen who were building nice boats (that tax was for that reason ended before it could be extended to cover every car and boat)

    Etc.

    Everyone should assume that whatever tax is proposed for “millionaires and billionaires” will find its way to the $300,000 retirement account held by the engineer, the teacher, the nurse, or the plumber.

    I think when it was 90% tax rate only a handful of people paid it. I can’t find the reference now, but it was so small as to be effectively 0. And as someone said, you have to question the intelligence of those that paid it.

    • #43
  14. Reformed_Yuppie Inactive
    Reformed_Yuppie
    @Reformed_Yuppie

    Jeff Hawkins (View Comment):

    Warren’s marketing hook is brilliant “I have a plan” but she lives in a world where if asked about details or a “and then what” she’s like “well, I’ll have to go look at it”

    She has a narrative problem, and a bigger one than people prone to support her think. White liberals are all on board with another Wilsonian autocrat who is smart so they can turn to people like us and say “see, we’re the smart ones.” Her whole campaign image and selling point is that the system is rigged against you the little guy.

    But her personal tales of struggle are all based on lies or ways she’s gamed the same system to get ahead of the little guys doing things the right way.

    She wasn’t fired due to a pregnancy, and she rose above her station by lying about her ethnicity. She was never a victim and worse yet, she stole someone else’s

    Which is why I cringe when I see someone like Jonathan V Last of the Bulwark, he of the virtuous wing of Conservatism, who opined this morning:

    So let’s clear a couple things up: I’m not anti-Warren by any means. I like her!

    JVL, whose work I’m intimately familiar with, has some deeply held reservations about the excesses of modern American capitalism. He’s pretty anti-Warren on social issues, but he has talked at length about how her message of being against crony capitalism hits home for him. I know a number of conservatives who have similar views (and all of them voted for Trump). People are complicated. I don’t agree with those people’s conclusions, but I kind of understand it.

    • #44
  15. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Taras (View Comment):
    Because the point of the exercise is after-tax income, the “rich” will shift away from productive investments and toward tax shelters.

    Put another way, sheltering money from taxes stagnates it.  Putting money into investments makes it grow (hopefully), which means saleries for employees, profits for the investors, and tax revenue for the government.

    • #45
  16. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Taras (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Regarding all the talk of making “the rich” pay for everything – has there ever been a tax on rich (or high income) people that hasn’t ended up impacting a lot of other people?

    The federal income tax was initially to apply only to a few of the riches people (and was to be “just a couple of percent”)

    The federal Alternative Minimum Tax that initially applied to something like 50 people, but ended up applying to millions of people

    The federal “luxury” goods tax on airplanes, boats, and cars that ended up mostly putting out of work middle income skilled craftsmen who were building nice boats (that tax was for that reason ended before it could be extended to cover every car and boat)

    Etc.

    Everyone should assume that whatever tax is proposed for “millionaires and billionaires” will find its way to the $300,000 retirement account held by the engineer, the teacher, the nurse, or the plumber.

    Soak the rich; drown the middle class.

    Because the point of the exercise is after-tax income, the “rich” will shift away from productive investments and toward tax shelters.

    The end result is more damage to the economy and less revenue raised than expected.

    And, because of the latter, middle class taxpayers are stuck with the bill, as in the Scandinavian countries.

    And the rich will find some friendly tax haven to move their wealth too.  They are not stupid.

    • #46
  17. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Ralphie (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Regarding all the talk of making “the rich” pay for everything – has there ever been a tax on rich (or high income) people that hasn’t ended up impacting a lot of other people?

    The federal income tax was initially to apply only to a few of the riches people (and was to be “just a couple of percent”)

    The federal Alternative Minimum Tax that initially applied to something like 50 people, but ended up applying to millions of people

    The federal “luxury” goods tax on airplanes, boats, and cars that ended up mostly putting out of work middle income skilled craftsmen who were building nice boats (that tax was for that reason ended before it could be extended to cover every car and boat)

    Etc.

    Everyone should assume that whatever tax is proposed for “millionaires and billionaires” will find its way to the $300,000 retirement account held by the engineer, the teacher, the nurse, or the plumber.

    I think when it was 90% tax rate only a handful of people paid it. I can’t find the reference now, but it was so small as to be effectively 0. And as someone said, you have to question the intelligence of those that paid it.

    At the time there were lots of loopholes to use.  Most of those were removed when the rates became more rational.

    • #47
  18. DonG Coolidge
    DonG
    @DonG

    Franco (View Comment):
    Elizabeth Warren is jerky, pleading and hectoring at the same time. She’s way to reactive physically. 

    somebody asked me today, why Liz was leading in the polls.  I was kind of stumped.  I could not think of anything she offered other than being the most Hillary-looking. 

    • #48
  19. DrewInWisconsin, Influencer Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Influencer
    @DrewInWisconsin

    DonG (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):
    Elizabeth Warren is jerky, pleading and hectoring at the same time. She’s way to reactive physically.

    somebody asked me today, why Liz was leading in the polls. I was kind of stumped. I could not think of anything she offered other than being the most Hillary-looking.

    Because she’s the media’s chosen one. The polls are probably dishonest.

    • #49
  20. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Taras (View Comment):

    Because the point of the exercise is after-tax income, the “rich” will shift away from productive investments and toward tax shelters.

    The end result is more damage to the economy and less revenue raised than expected.

    And, because of the latter, middle class taxpayers are stuck with the bill, as in the Scandinavian countries.

    It worked so well for the French in the Eighteenth Century, though.

    • #50
  21. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Taras (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Regarding all the talk of making “the rich” pay for everything – has there ever been a tax on rich (or high income) people that hasn’t ended up impacting a lot of other people?

    The federal income tax was initially to apply only to a few of the riches people (and was to be “just a couple of percent”)

    The federal Alternative Minimum Tax that initially applied to something like 50 people, but ended up applying to millions of people

    The federal “luxury” goods tax on airplanes, boats, and cars that ended up mostly putting out of work middle income skilled craftsmen who were building nice boats (that tax was for that reason ended before it could be extended to cover every car and boat)

    Etc.

    Everyone should assume that whatever tax is proposed for “millionaires and billionaires” will find its way to the $300,000 retirement account held by the engineer, the teacher, the nurse, or the plumber.

    Soak the rich; drown the middle class.

    Because the point of the exercise is after-tax income, the “rich” will shift away from productive investments and toward tax shelters.

    The end result is more damage to the economy and less revenue raised than expected.

    And, because of the latter, middle class taxpayers are stuck with the bill, as in the Scandinavian countries.

    Yep. 

    POLITICIAN: “Hey everyone, let’s stab that rich guy and watch him bleed!” 

    POPULACE: “Yeah! Do it!” 

    RICH GUY STEPS OUT OF THE WAY, POLITICIAN SHIVS MIDDLE CLASS 

    POLITICIAN: “Don’t forget to vote for me in 2020!” 

    • #51
  22. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Ralphie (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Regarding all the talk of making “the rich” pay for everything – has there ever been a tax on rich (or high income) people that hasn’t ended up impacting a lot of other people?

    The federal income tax was initially to apply only to a few of the riches people (and was to be “just a couple of percent”)

    The federal Alternative Minimum Tax that initially applied to something like 50 people, but ended up applying to millions of people

    The federal “luxury” goods tax on airplanes, boats, and cars that ended up mostly putting out of work middle income skilled craftsmen who were building nice boats (that tax was for that reason ended before it could be extended to cover every car and boat)

    Etc.

    Everyone should assume that whatever tax is proposed for “millionaires and billionaires” will find its way to the $300,000 retirement account held by the engineer, the teacher, the nurse, or the plumber.

    I think when it was 90% tax rate only a handful of people paid it. I can’t find the reference now, but it was so small as to be effectively 0. And as someone said, you have to question the intelligence of those that paid it.

    Maybe they were feeling that patriotism Biden talks about. 

    • #52
  23. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    DrewInWisconsin, Influencer (View Comment):

    DonG (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):
    Elizabeth Warren is jerky, pleading and hectoring at the same time. She’s way to reactive physically.

    somebody asked me today, why Liz was leading in the polls. I was kind of stumped. I could not think of anything she offered other than being the most Hillary-looking.

    Because she’s the media’s chosen one. The polls are probably dishonest.

    And she’s precisely the kind of white-lady liberal that black folks intuitively distrust.

    My fear is that this whole group is so bad someone like Bloomberg or Hillary might jump in. I want to keep Biden and Warren alive. I find myself kinda rooting for them.

     

    • #53
  24. Reformed_Yuppie Inactive
    Reformed_Yuppie
    @Reformed_Yuppie

    Franco (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Influencer (View Comment):

    DonG (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):
    Elizabeth Warren is jerky, pleading and hectoring at the same time. She’s way to reactive physically.

    somebody asked me today, why Liz was leading in the polls. I was kind of stumped. I could not think of anything she offered other than being the most Hillary-looking.

    Because she’s the media’s chosen one. The polls are probably dishonest.

    And she’s precisely the kind of white-lady liberal that black folks intuitively distrust.

    My fear is that this whole group is so bad someone like Bloomberg or Hillary might jump in. I want to keep Biden and Warren alive. I find myself kinda rooting for them.

     

    After her condescending, canned “joke” about SSM opponents I wonder how many black, churchgoing democrats will take her seriously. 

    • #54
  25. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Pinched from The Libertarian Party of Kentucky – 4th District‘s Facebook page:

    • #55
  26. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Percival (View Comment):

    Pinched from The Libertarian Party of Kentucky – 4th District‘s Facebook page:

    And they call that “a great weekend.”

    • #56
  27. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    DrewInWisconsin, Influencer (View Comment):

    DonG (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):
    Elizabeth Warren is jerky, pleading and hectoring at the same time. She’s way to reactive physically.

    somebody asked me today, why Liz was leading in the polls. I was kind of stumped. I could not think of anything she offered other than being the most Hillary-looking.

    Because she’s the media’s chosen one. The polls are probably dishonest.

    It’s her turn.  She patiently sat out 2016 and let Hillary take her shot, and now she’s next in line.

    • #57
  28. Richard O'Shea Coolidge
    Richard O'Shea
    @RichardOShea

    At one time last night, they all seemed to agree that the opioid manufacturers should be jailed for making such an addictive product and having it over prescribed.   Then most of them thought that opioids should be legalized, which I guess means available without a prescription.

    They also wanted to break up monopolies by big tech, because monopolies are bad, but also create a new government monopoly for health care, because that is good.

     

    • #58
  29. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Richard O’Shea (View Comment):
    hey all seemed to agree that the opioid manufacturers should be jailed for making such an addictive product and having it over prescribed.

    Did any of them say that nobody should be jailed for non-violent crimes?

    Because that one’s my favorite.

    • #59
  30. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Ralphie (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Regarding all the talk of making “the rich” pay for everything – has there ever been a tax on rich (or high income) people that hasn’t ended up impacting a lot of other people?

    The federal income tax was initially to apply only to a few of the riches people (and was to be “just a couple of percent”)

    The federal Alternative Minimum Tax that initially applied to something like 50 people, but ended up applying to millions of people

    The federal “luxury” goods tax on airplanes, boats, and cars that ended up mostly putting out of work middle income skilled craftsmen who were building nice boats (that tax was for that reason ended before it could be extended to cover every car and boat)

    Etc.

    Everyone should assume that whatever tax is proposed for “millionaires and billionaires” will find its way to the $300,000 retirement account held by the engineer, the teacher, the nurse, or the plumber.

    I think when it was 90% tax rate only a handful of people paid it. I can’t find the reference now, but it was so small as to be effectively 0. And as someone said, you have to question the intelligence of those that paid it.

    Yes. My wife worked as an accountant just before the 1986 tax changes, and she encountered many very odd arrangements by her high income clients to not show high income for tax purposes.

    • #60
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.