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Things Could Get Out of Hand
Since the three press conferences addressing Turkey, Kurds in Syria, and U.S. forces, there has been a near-miss of US soldiers. The hostile take is from Newsweek. The Department of Defense statement, on the record, gives us the facts we know from the US side.
The facts of this situation, even taken from the Newsweek post, contradict the “abandoned” narrative. That is, US forces were in an observation post within visual distance of the Turkish border, and close to some Kurdish positions, from which there may have been mortar, light artillery fire, across the border into Turkey. It is a long border, with lots of points of contact, compared to the small, shallow border section the past days’ actions and chatter concerned.
It is true both that being within a few hundred meters of an exploding artillery shell is not risk-free and that the carefully worded DoD report, suggests either just one shell or one volley of shells, since it was “explosion,” not “explosions.” Missing from the description is whether the US and Turkish forces were in direct radio contact locally. I would guess not, from the circumstances.
Consider the whole, carefully-worded statement:
DOD Statement on Artillery Incident Near Kobani
OCT. 11, 2019Attributable to Navy Capt. Brook DeWalt, Director, Defense Press Operations:
First, this is on the record, with a name attached for accountability.
U.S. troops in the vicinity of Kobani came under artillery fire from Turkish positions at approximately 9 p.m. local Oct. 11.
So, there was not a wholesale withdrawal, let alone “abandonment.”
The explosion occurred within a few hundred meters of a location outside the Security Mechanism zone and in an area known by the Turks to have U.S. forces present.
See the Secretary of Defense and Chief of the Joint Chiefs of Staff emphatic statement about grid locations having been communicated to the Turkish military. Did the local unit commander actually have this information? See also the use of the singular form of “explosion.”
All U.S. troops are accounted for with no injuries.
If this was intentional, if it was an attack, then we should expect multiple “explosions” in volleys of shells, adjusted to walk into the US troops’ position. That is how an artillery attack works. Such attacks tend to cause injury and death.
U.S. Forces have not withdrawn from Kobani.
So, apparently we are not abandoning this set of Kurds in this town.
The United States remains opposed to the Turkish military move into Syria and especially objects to Turkish operations outside the Security Mechanism zone and in areas where the Turks know U.S. forces are present.
We gave y’all the cotton-pickin’ grid coordinates. You do know how to read standard grids, as a NATO member, right?
The U.S. demands that Turkey avoid actions that could result in immediate defensive action.
Keep it up and someone is going to get really hurt, turkeys. I refer you back to Friday’s tape and transcript, where Gen. Milley said:
GEN. MILLEY: So the no-strike — the — the Turkish military is fully aware, down to explicit grid coordinate detail, of the locations of U.S. forces, and — and we have been in coordination with them through the CAOC in CENTCOM, at various levels throughout CENTCOM and personally at my level. So all levels of the chain of command — me, McKenzie, everybody — is coordinating with the Turks to make sure that they know exactly where American forces are, and — and everyone has been told.
Q: Throughout — throughout Syria, not just (inaudible).
(CROSSTALK)
GEN. MILLEY: Throughout Syria and in the zones of incursion; and everyone is fully aware that we are the United States military. We retain the right of self-defense, and our soldier, sailors, airmen and Marines will defend themselves. That’s clear and it’s unambiguous with anybody.
The danger of starting to shoot, especially of lobbing shells and bombs, is that accidents can also happen. Sometimes friendly forces get caught. Turkish commanders really need to think through what they are doing to control their fires. Turkish commanders should be establishing direct FM radio contact with US forces at grid locations mapped in the Turkish commander’s area of operations.
Published in Foreign Policy
It really gives you no pause that everyone thinks he’s wrong? Long time FP experts, some of our most respected generals, most of the House and Senate, all of them are fallible and wrong, but Trump isn’t? What makes you so sure that a man with zero experience in such matters is right when the people who’ve given their whole lives to it say otherwise? Serious question: What would he have to do for you to question him?
Gen Mattis gave his advice and for whatever reason it wasn’t taken. I like Mattis. I respect him. I think he is great in many ways. But he’s not perfect, nor can he foresee the future. Leaving Syria is not insane. Staying in Syria would not be insane either. I trust Trump to have made a decision that will fit with his overall strategy for our nation.
What would he have to do for you to not question him? And tell me again about these great experts and moral giants in light of the past decades. By the way, the same crowd was against a B-movie actor, second banana to a chimp, who was also a reckless nuclear cowboy, until after he turned out to be right.
You didn’t answer the question, which is an answer in its own way I suppose.
Reformed_Yuppie (View Comment):
No. History is filled with examples of “everyone” being wrong.
Clifford wrote quite well: “By the way, the same crowd was against a B-movie actor, second banana to a chimp, who was also a reckless nuclear cowboy, until after he turned out to be right.”
Because those people haven’t solved anything there yet. What gives them credibility beyond having a title?
That’s a pretty odd question. Let’s see, I would question his actions if he suddenly started drooling, taking off his clothes during speeches and playing with himself. That would be one reason, though there are probably other situations.
An early example of the lying sack of ….. media. Tet was a disaster for the Viet Cong. After Tet the cadres of the VC were destroyed and it fell on the NVA to fight the war. But thanks to Walter Cronkite and his pals it was a major loss for the South and US.
So strap up and go protect them.
That’s not a defense of policy. It’s intellectually lazy misdirection.
No. You are concerned that Kurdish civilians are going to be massacred. You think it’s our job to defend them.
That’s going to involve someone standing in that breach.
True in part. The story sold by the Johnson Administration was one of continuous improvement in the military and political spheres. Characterized as “We can see the light at the end of the tunnel.” And yet we woke up one morning to discover an enemy we thought was if not on the run, at least in check, had executed a nation wide offensive.
In 1944, by the time the American public heard about to the Battle of the Bulge, the German offensive had failed. In 1969, within hours we saw televised film of Viet Cong raiders occupying the American Embassy.
–How many times have those people have to be wrong before you can admit there wrong? The USA is still in Afghanistan 18 years later. Because of these same people.
–There were plenty of well educated experts running the Soviet Union. Didnt make them any less wrong.
–There were plenty of well educated experts who were running the economy right into the ground of 2008.
–There were plenty of generals who were saying Viet Nam was contained and the war was over in 1968.
–The Chinese would never intervene in Korea.
–Saddam Hussein had weapons of Mass Destruction and thats why he had to be invaded.
–What do you propose we do? Are we going to declare war on Turkey? Please explain to me the plan? Turkey was going to enter the area regardless of Trumps statements. Do you want to put US Soldiers in the way of Turkish Tanks with the orders to shoot them? Cause thats what it seems to take right now?
Most things do these days and you know it.
This is the kind of cr#p being shoveled by the media on this.
Now. Compare that “Syrian” footage to this
But calling 50 troops getting out of the way of being killed “abandonment”, isn’t.
Well. Comfy in that perch?
We just can’t believe anything they show anymore.
I never said anything about abandonment. Try again.
A sad state of affairs in terms of our ability to discuss issues. If people insist on every argument getting boiled down to Trump: Good or Bad, then I see no point in even beginning the discussion.
For my part, I’m serious when I say my point stands regardless of who the president is.
No.
The level of dishonesty here is astounding. If you’re going to make things up about people at least have the stones to defend it.
Is that rhetorical? Must be. When you’re killing it, as you usually do, you oft times use rhetorical questions.
Here’s a rhetorical bet: I will bet a month’s pay check that you could grab any Turkish officer (in the US, it would be an NCO’s job) in any Turkish Fire Direction Center, and give him a pop quiz on map reading.
Hand him a 1:50,000 scale MGRS map, and have him perform practical exercises on map reading, to include finding grids (skill level 1 task), identification of terrain features, intersection and resection. Heck, ask him questions about the angle of declination.
He’ll fail.
Accidents are going to happen.
And. It is on the Turks for any failure to maintain skill level 1 (every private in the U.S. Army) tasks. And incompetence may well lead to bad things. I think it is in our interest to help the Turks avoid the subset of bad things that involve our own troops. Not sure how that looks.
That’s it in a nutshell.
Let’s not forget the guys cutting the charges.
For those not conversant in artillery speak, the propellant for larger cannons is separate from the projectile. Cutting charges refers to selecting and loading the right amount of powder, in premeasured combustible bags. The wrong charge means the shell lands short or long.