A Politically Incorrect Reflection on Traffic Stops

 

I’m no longer a police officer so you’re all safe from me.

Warning: My sarcasm filter is rather low. Do not take it personally. There were many different encounters with people that helped to hone my sense of the absurd, my sense of humor, and my sense of wonder. I cannot thank them enough.

I’ve made a list of the things I have experienced as a police officer on traffic stops, with the exception of the body in the trunk. That happened to an officer that I knew. For those of you that think I’m too acerbic you can take some comfort from the fact that I’m no longer on the road as a police officer.

I had no problem with a private citizen obtaining a concealed handgun permit. I had no problem with said citizen having the handgun in their vehicle. I believe that you have the right to defend yourself. As a police officer I assumed everyone that I approached and talked with was armed.

When I was on a traffic stop my preference was as soon as I got to the driver’s window I was told; “I have a concealed hand gun license” and then I was told where the gun was in the vehicle. Do not display the pistol and then say to me; “It’s okay, I have a permit.” I am going to ask to see the permit. Remember, I did not ask you to show me the pistol. I’m a literal person.

Even though I checked your license plate with a dispatcher I have no idea if you are the RO (Registered Owner) of the vehicle until I see your ID. All I know at that point is your license plate matches the make and model of the vehicle I pulled-over. If the plate does not match the make and model Officer Friendly (that’s me) will start our discussion by asking you to explain why your plate does not match the vehicle.

I have no idea what type of person you are. For all I know you just cleaned your garage, to include the body that had been in there for two days, that is now in your trunk. (this happened to an officer I know on a traffic stop.) I’m not going to call your sixth grade teacher, former Scoutmaster, priest, minister, or rabbi for a character reference, or to find out if you’re kind to small animals and children.

When I ask for your license, registration, and proof of insurance please do not reach into your glove box and try to hand me a stack of paperwork as thick as War and Peace. I’ll let you sort through the paperwork. This keeps your hands busy and allows me to watch you and scan the interior of your car.

If you don’t have your ID and decide to give me someone else’s name pick someone who does not have a warrant for their arrest. If you do have your ID and the dispatcher tells me you have a warrant I’m probably not going to buy into the story that you have an evil twin.

If you’re under 21 you might want to separate your falsified license from your real license. I know it’s not fair that you have to wait until you’re 21 to go night clubbing, but you now have a traffic violation and a criminal charge, and no you don’t get to keep the falsified license.

Please no tears. I’ve seen my share of intended and unintended mayhem. I’ve dealt with people who have lost family members to violence and accidents. I empathize with their tears.

I received my first traffic citation two weeks after I received my license so I’ve been in your position and I muddled through the incident without having to see a therapist.

You can tell me that you believe some traffic laws are ridiculous and should not be enforced, especially the one I stopped you for violating. I already know that, that’s how we met.

Important Tip: You can swear at me all you like, I’m not going to hit you. I am going to write down every expletive, without asterisks on the back of the judge’s copy of your citation. The judge also has a copy of your DMV history in front of him when you go to court. Do not tell the judge you have a perfect driving record unless you do. If you have collected 15 moving violations in 3 months the judge will be led to believe you have two problems. The first is your credibility and the second is you are a slow learner.
I did not write the traffic laws nor assign the amount of the fine for a traffic violation. Your elected representatives do those things. Talk to your representative.

I do not like red light cameras or photo radar vans any more than you do. Once again these are legislative issues. Talk to your city council member, or state legislator.

I abhor city council meetings. Most city council members are to the left of Bernie Sanders. I avoid them whether in a public setting or in a private setting.

If you do decide to go to a city council meeting be prepared to sit and listen before your turn comes to address the council; to a member of The Friends of Trees; to a 35 year-old skater complain that the your city isn’t building enough skate parks; or the bicyclist that has run every red light in the city and who has displayed the impudent digit to every driver that had a green light and almost hit him. His complaint, there aren’t enough bike lanes in the city, which he has no intention of using even if they were provided.

Be careful out there.

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  1. Petty Boozswha Inactive
    Petty Boozswha
    @PettyBoozswha

    Arahant (View Comment):

    And if you got one, why were you speeding again? Most people are more cautious after they receive a ticket. PEBSWAGP.

    Because the speed limit drops from 40 to 25  without signs, or strategically hidden signs, on dual lane roads over flat empty fields where no rational person would consider such a change plausible. I note that all those stopped had out of state tags as well, but I’m sure that was just coincidence.

    • #31
  2. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Petty Boozswha (View Comment):
    or strategically hidden signs

    It’s a funny thing, but where speed signs are placed can make them nearly invisible. I grew up in Illinois. The sign placement was a certain distance from intersections. I moved to Michigan. The placement is a different distance. It took me years to change my habit as to when and where I looked for speed limit signs.

    • #32
  3. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    Allowing speed traps is dependent upon state law. Oregon does not allow speed traps, and Oregon does not permit field sobriety checkpoints.

    Houston occasionally has the latter. Though I have never been stopped in one, their mere existence infuriates me. It essentially suspends 4th Amendment protections for a day. But our judicial overlords thought that’s fine.

    SCOTUS apparently decided in 1990 that the interest of preventing drunk driving outweighed protection against unwarranted searches and detention. So a murder suspect gets 4th Amendment protection, but not anyone driving on a road favored by idiots.

    We are soul brothers, Aaron.  I’m a Minnesotan and they don’t do sobriety checkpoints here, but I’m just miles from Fargo, ND where they do them frequently.  I’ve never driven drunk in my life and I’ve never been stopped at a sobriety checkpoint.  Nevertheless, the very concept of them infuriates me for your same reasons.  It’s a dad-blasted violation of the 4th Amendment and I don’t care that Mothers Against Drunk Drivers put on an emotional display that melted the hearts of some Supreme Court Justices.

    • #33
  4. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Great advice!

    I’d like to give advice about how to avoid getting a ticket.

    Surrender and apologize and apologize.

    1.  Surrender

    Pull over ASAP.  Try to pull over in such a way that escape is impossible.  One time, I pulled in a lot between two businesses where I could not have escaped if I had wanted to.  Another time I pulled into a parking lot and drove into a space that faced a concrete barrier.  Let the officer relax and submit to his or her authority.

    Treat the  officer as the alpha, because at that moment, he or she is the alpha.

    2.  Apologize

    Don’t fight the facts.

    Officer:  You were speeding.

    Me:  You are right, I was.  I am so sorry.

    Officer:  Do you know what the speed limit is?

    Me:  I think “X” miles per hour?

    Officer:  No, it is “Y” miles per hour.

    Me:  You were right officer.  I was wrong.  I am so sorry.  It was mistake.  I should have paying attention.

    If you have an excuse, which is true, then this is the time to say it.  (Never, ever lie to an officer.)  “I am late for church.”  “I am going to see the new LDS temple while it is open to the general public.”  “I was just visiting a foster child.”  “I just helped a widow friend move stuff from storage in Phoenix, and I am so hot after being there I was not paying attention.”  And from many, many years ago, “I am late for my paper route.”

    Then, again, I am so sorry.  I was wrong.  I apologize.  That was stupid of me.  (Wash, rinse, repeat until the officer forgives you.)

    3.   Three last points

    First, for me, never ever say that I am a lawyer.  (“I work in an office downtown.”)

    Second, never argue with the officer.

    Third, if I can, I like to get out of the car and approach the officer.  But I now understand that that can be dangerous.

    I am cited only 15% of the times I am stopped.

    Gary

    P.S.  This is very, very incorrect, but talking my way out of a ticket, is the second best feeling there is.

    • #34
  5. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    I am cited only 15% of the times I am stopped.

    How often are y’all stopped? I must be doing something right. The last time I remember being stopped was December 7th, 1998. Before that must have been the late 1980’s, before I moved to Michigan. Before that, it was around 1984 on a night when I borrowed my brother’s car and the police were looking for a similar car from a hit-and-run.

    • #35
  6. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    I am cited only 15% of the times I am stopped.

    How often are y’all stopped? I must be doing something right. The last time I remember being stopped was December 7th, 1998. Before that must have been the late 1980’s, before I moved to Michigan. Before that, it was around 1984 on a night when I borrowed my brother’s car and the police were looking for a similar car from a hit-and-run.

    About 20 times over the years.  I like to speed.

    • #36
  7. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Arahant (View Comment):
    PEBSWAGP

    ??

    • #37
  8. Shauna Hunt Inactive
    Shauna Hunt
    @ShaunaHunt

    If you have an excuse, which is true, then this is the time to say it. (Never, ever lie to an officer.) “I am late for church.” “I am going to see the new LDS temple while it is open to the general public.”

    I particularly like these excuses.

    I have a lead foot. A couple weeks ago, we were going to my family’s ranch which is two hours away. We took separate cars so my husband could get to work. Mr. Hunt drives the speed limit. When we left the canyon and got into open country roads, I was going 90 in a 75 zone. My son and his best friend thought it was great! Fortunately, I didn’t get stopped.

    However, when driving through small towns with one stoplight, you’re better off going the speed limit. Especially watching for speed reduction signs while entering and leaving. The police here love to catch you between speed limits.

    • #38
  9. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Shauna Hunt (View Comment):

    If you have an excuse, which is true, then this is the time to say it. (Never, ever lie to an officer.) “I am late for church.” “I am going to see the new LDS temple while it is open to the general public.”

    I particularly like these excuses.

    It’s better not to make an admission.  Exchange greetings, pleasantries about the weather and give very vague answers.  “Where are you coming from?”  answer, “I was attending to some personal affairs.”  “Do you know why I stopped you?”  answer, “Not really.”  If you say you were late for church, then that implies guilt.

    • #39
  10. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    When I am pulled over, I now lower both front windows (last I lowered just driver’s side, the officer approached on the passenger side) and keep both hands open (not gripped) on the steering wheel to put the cop at ease. 

    I’m not sure it does. Unusual behavior tends to unsettle people even when it is non-threatening. Breaking expectations raises questions. 

    Even though the policeman will almost certainly ask for ID and insurance, I wait until the officer asks. Otherwise, he might wonder what else I am reaching for. 

    The most gracious encounter I ever had with police was when I was a teenager. My BB gun had a scope which an old hunter had given me. So entering the woods across from a medical clinic, it looked like my friend and I had a real rifle… in a bit of forest between suburban subdivisions. Someone called. 

    As we walked through a clearing, a police car drove toward us on the dirt. I immediately rested the barrel on my foot with my hand on the back of the stock, away from the trigger. They told us just to be more careful. 

    In short, if you consider their perspective, they will often consider yours. 

    • #40
  11. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Shauna Hunt (View Comment):

    If you have an excuse, which is true, then this is the time to say it. (Never, ever lie to an officer.) “I am late for church.” “I am going to see the new LDS temple while it is open to the general public.”

    I particularly like these excuses.

    It’s better not to make an admission. Exchange greetings, pleasantries about the weather and give very vague answers. “Where are you coming from?” answer, “I was attending to some personal affairs.” “Do you know why I stopped you?” answer, “Not really.” If you say you were late for church, then that implies guilt.

    Last time I got pulled over (August 1991), the cop asked me why I was going so fast (65 in a 55 zone on US-51), I replied “I guess I had my head up my ass”.  

    He laughed, ran my drivers license, and then let me off with a warning. 

    • #41
  12. Shauna Hunt Inactive
    Shauna Hunt
    @ShaunaHunt

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Shauna Hunt (View Comment):

    If you have an excuse, which is true, then this is the time to say it. (Never, ever lie to an officer.) “I am late for church.” “I am going to see the new LDS temple while it is open to the general public.”

    I particularly like these excuses.

    It’s better not to make an admission. Exchange greetings, pleasantries about the weather and give very vague answers. “Where are you coming from?” answer, “I was attending to some personal affairs.” “Do you know why I stopped you?” answer, “Not really.” If you say you were late for church, then that implies guilt.

    I wouldn’t use those excuses. I’m a Latter-Day Saint so the temple excuse made me smile.

    I’ve only been pulled over for expired registration. Church is so close, I couldn’t speed to get there. :)  It’s just awkward when I get pulled over.

    • #42
  13. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    Shauna Hunt (View Comment):
    I’ve only been pulled over for expired registration. Church is so close, I couldn’t speed to get there. :) It’s just awkward when I get pulled over.

    I know people whose road rage begins before they leave the church grounds. 

    Disney had a great cartoon about such Jekyll-Hyde drivers.

    • #43
  14. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    Man, I miss Disney.

    • #44
  15. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Shauna Hunt (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Shauna Hunt (View Comment):

    If you have an excuse, which is true, then this is the time to say it. (Never, ever lie to an officer.) “I am late for church.” “I am going to see the new LDS temple while it is open to the general public.”

    I particularly like these excuses.

    It’s better not to make an admission. Exchange greetings, pleasantries about the weather and give very vague answers. “Where are you coming from?” answer, “I was attending to some personal affairs.” “Do you know why I stopped you?” answer, “Not really.” If you say you were late for church, then that implies guilt.

    I wouldn’t use those excuses. I’m a Latter-Day Saint so the temple excuse made me smile.

    I’ve only been pulled over for expired registration. Church is so close, I couldn’t speed to get there. :) It’s just awkward when I get pulled over.

    I am not LDS.  However when a new temple is built, the public is invited to see the new Temple.  I actually, really, was on my way to the new Temple outside of Snowflake, Arizona when I was stopped on Arizona 77, south of Holbrook, and I named the LDS friend who I was going to meet with.

    It had the ring of truth because it was true.

    • #45
  16. Cato Rand Inactive
    Cato Rand
    @CatoRand

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    Petty Boozswha (View Comment):

    Mr. Watt, what percentage of police officers do you think are required to participate in speed traps to generate revenue? Is there any way for an officer to ethically refuse such an order?

    Sure there is, but most officers have families to support. There are few jobs that don’t have something included that you don’t like.

    Allowing speed traps is dependent upon state law. Oregon does not allow speed traps, and Oregon does not permit field sobriety checkpoints.

     

    Aren’t sobriety checkpoints illegal?  I thought I remembered there being something about unreasonable searches and probable cause in the Constitution.  Nevermind, I just googled it and apparently SCOTUS approved the practice under the 4th Amendment (basically as a reasonable exception to it) in 1990.   I know it’s not a popular issue, but it seems to me that ruling was so obviously wrong it should be reconsidered.  Maybe our more constitution friendly modern Court will get to that after it dismantles the administrative state and overrules Roe.

    • #46
  17. Cato Rand Inactive
    Cato Rand
    @CatoRand

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: Allowing speed traps is dependent upon state law. Oregon does not allow speed traps, and Oregon does not permit field sobriety checkpoints.

    Depends on how you define “speed trap.” I live on a stretch of road that’s 25mph and regularly traveled at 40+. The residents, especially those with younger children, have had it. The city has decided to enforce our limit. If you don’t live on the street you might be tempted to call it a speed trap.

    Linndale, Ohio, on the other hand is a classic example. Surrounded by the cities of Cleveland and Brooklyn it has a 422-yard section of I-71 that it used to fill the village coffers for decades. Their officers actually had to leave town to get on the interstate. Finally, the state legislature outlawed Mayor’s Courts and forced all cases into the city court of Parma. So, they installed cameras at the village’s busiest intersection instead.

    It’s so notorious it was once featured on This American Life.

    I think “speed trap” doesn’t usually refer to reasonable limits in residential areas.  When I use the term I’m referring to a stretch of road that unaccountably goes from 55 to 35 for a mile and a half with no real change in the surrounding land uses.  We have a notorious one in Douglas, Michigan where we have a summer place.  Blue Star Hwy just unaccountably does that on a four lane state highway with nothing but commercial uses around it.  And it’s policed 24/7.  Zero safety considerations and 100% revenue.  The tiny local municipality just likes picking the pockets of out of towners.  It’s maddening, but if you’re a regular in the area, at least you’re aware of it and know how to avoid getting caught in the trap.

    • #47
  18. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    Cato Rand (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: Allowing speed traps is dependent upon state law. Oregon does not allow speed traps, and Oregon does not permit field sobriety checkpoints.

    Depends on how you define “speed trap.” I live on a stretch of road that’s 25mph and regularly traveled at 40+. The residents, especially those with younger children, have had it. The city has decided to enforce our limit. If you don’t live on the street you might be tempted to call it a speed trap.

    Linndale, Ohio, on the other hand is a classic example. Surrounded by the cities of Cleveland and Brooklyn it has a 422-yard section of I-71 that it used to fill the village coffers for decades. Their officers actually had to leave town to get on the interstate. Finally, the state legislature outlawed Mayor’s Courts and forced all cases into the city court of Parma. So, they installed cameras at the village’s busiest intersection instead.

    It’s so notorious it was once featured on This American Life.

    I think “speed trap” doesn’t usually refer to reasonable limits in residential areas. When I use the term I’m referring to a stretch of road that unaccountably goes from 55 to 35 for a mile and a half with no real change in the surrounding land uses. We have a notorious one in Douglas, Michigan where we have a summer place. Blue Star Hwy just unaccountably does that on a four lane state highway with nothing but commercial uses around it. And it’s policed 24/7. Zero safety considerations and 100% revenue. The tiny local municipality just likes picking the pockets of out of towners. It’s maddening, but if you’re a regular in the area, at least you’re aware of it and know how to avoid getting caught in the trap.

    I wish I could remember where this happened.  Several years ago I read about a small town that did this and a frustrated motorist paid for a billboard advising people to boycott the town.  It probably didn’t make much difference because I think it was a dinky little town with little commerce going on, anyway.

    • #48
  19. Cato Rand Inactive
    Cato Rand
    @CatoRand

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    Cato Rand (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: Allowing speed traps is dependent upon state law. Oregon does not allow speed traps, and Oregon does not permit field sobriety checkpoints.

    Depends on how you define “speed trap.” I live on a stretch of road that’s 25mph and regularly traveled at 40+. The residents, especially those with younger children, have had it. The city has decided to enforce our limit. If you don’t live on the street you might be tempted to call it a speed trap.

    Linndale, Ohio, on the other hand is a classic example. Surrounded by the cities of Cleveland and Brooklyn it has a 422-yard section of I-71 that it used to fill the village coffers for decades. Their officers actually had to leave town to get on the interstate. Finally, the state legislature outlawed Mayor’s Courts and forced all cases into the city court of Parma. So, they installed cameras at the village’s busiest intersection instead.

    It’s so notorious it was once featured on This American Life.

    I think “speed trap” doesn’t usually refer to reasonable limits in residential areas. When I use the term I’m referring to a stretch of road that unaccountably goes from 55 to 35 for a mile and a half with no real change in the surrounding land uses. We have a notorious one in Douglas, Michigan where we have a summer place. Blue Star Hwy just unaccountably does that on a four lane state highway with nothing but commercial uses around it. And it’s policed 24/7. Zero safety considerations and 100% revenue. The tiny local municipality just likes picking the pockets of out of towners. It’s maddening, but if you’re a regular in the area, at least you’re aware of it and know how to avoid getting caught in the trap.

    I wish I could remember where this happened. Several years ago I read about a small town that did this and a frustrated motorist paid for a billboard advising people to boycott the town. It probably didn’t make much difference because I think it was a dinky little town with little commerce going on, anyway.

    It frustrates the bejesus out of business owners in Douglas because while tiny, it’s a resort town with a fair amount going on and entirely dependent on visitors.

    • #49
  20. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas Pratt
    @DouglasPratt

    The few times I have been pulled over, I behaved as though I was now in the officer’s place of business, and acted as I would have wanted him to act if he came to my office. Never argued, accepted his decision with good grace, and never had a problem.

    In the small town where I grew up the teenagers were remarkably good drivers. This was due to the fact that my dad taught driver education, and he was also Justice of the Peace. His students knew that if they screwed up they would wind up in his courtroom, and since they had been in his classroom, they had a good idea of what it would be like.

    I had a parent’s nightmare moment once. My son was on his way to his job and was running late, so he ran a stoplight and got pulled over. His car was licensed to me at the time (he was 17) and I had a Virginia concealed carry permit. (A year later we would both get certified as NRA Instructors and start teaching Basic Pistol.) When the Fairfax County cops pulled him over and ran the plate, they decided to search the car.

    I was out and about, and decided to head to the Starbucks where Brian worked to get my usual. Turned a corner, and there is Brian, in cuffs, on the side of the road with two cruisers in full bloom and stuff from Brian’s trunk spread around. Pulled over, walked over, introduced myself and asked what was up. While I was doing that an officer removed the cuffs and started loading stuff back into the trunk. The second officer explained what was going on, said he would be ticketed for failure to yield rather than reckless driving, praised Brian’s cooperative attitude, and said he would be on his way shortly. As I turned to go, he said, “That’s a fine young man you’ve got there.” Not the way I expected the incident to play out, but I’m grateful for it.

    • #50
  21. Suspira Member
    Suspira
    @Suspira

    A couple of years back, I turned right on red at an intersection that was clearly marked “No Right Turn on Red.” I forget why I was in a hurry, but I did it knowingly, after checking for traffic. I failed to check for traffic cops, however.

    I was pulled over and spent quite some time on the roadside while the officer checked my paperwork and consulted whoever they consult over the radio. It turned out that my registration did not exactly match my license plate. The plate was in error! It came back to some other car and some other owner. 

    This was my duly issued state license plate. Somehow I was given the wrong one. Who checks the number against the registration when they get new plates? I will in the future.

    I was so nonplussed by the situation, as well as looking like the harmless granny I am, complete with toddler grandson in the backseat, that the officer just told me I needed to get it straightened out ASAP.

    I shudder to think if that situation should occur to someone whose appearance isn’t so completely innocuous.

    • #51
  22. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    The few times I have been pulled over, I behaved as though I was now in the officer’s place of business, and acted as I would have wanted him to act if he came to my office. Never argued, accepted his decision with good grace, and never had a problem.

    In the small town where I grew up the teenagers were remarkably good drivers. This was due to the fact that my dad taught driver education, and he was also Justice of the Peace. His students knew that if they screwed up they would wind up in his courtroom, and since they had been in his classroom, they had a good idea of what it would be like.

    I had a parent’s nightmare moment once. My son was on his way to his job and was running late, so he ran a stoplight and got pulled over. His car was licensed to me at the time (he was 17) and I had a Virginia concealed carry permit. (A year later we would both get certified as NRA Instructors and start teaching Basic Pistol.) When the Fairfax County cops pulled him over and ran the plate, they decided to search the car.

    I was out and about, and decided to head to the Starbucks where Brian worked to get my usual. Turned a corner, and there is Brian, in cuffs, on the side of the road with two cruisers in full bloom and stuff from Brian’s trunk spread around. Pulled over, walked over, introduced myself and asked what was up. While I was doing that an officer removed the cuffs and started loading stuff back into the trunk. The second officer explained what was going on, said he would be ticketed for failure to yield rather than reckless driving, praised Brian’s cooperative attitude, and said he would be on his way shortly. As I turned to go, he said, “That’s a fine young man you’ve got there.” Not the way I expected the incident to play out, but I’m grateful for it.

    First, how could anyone not get speeding tickets when the national limit was 55mph?   No one drove that limit and tickets were a crap shoot. 

    Fairfax.  Enough said, but why would you be saying anything nice at all for the police searching your car.  It’s down right unamerican. Perhaps there’s a clause for your concealed handgun license that implies consent, but it’s still unwarranted thuggery on the part of the police to turn a traffic stop into a search.  What were they expecting to find?  A gun?  

    I’m glad your son behaved but what a horrible lesson for those cops to teach him.  

    • #52
  23. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas Pratt
    @DouglasPratt

    Skyler (View Comment)

    Fairfax. Enough said, but why would you be saying anything nice at all for the police searching your car. It’s down right unamerican. Perhaps there’s a clause for your concealed handgun license that implies consent, but it’s still unwarranted thuggery on the part of the police to turn a traffic stop into a search. What were they expecting to find? A gun?

    I’m glad your son behaved but what a horrible lesson for those cops to teach him.

    There’s a dynamic related to gun ownership in the suburbs of DC that is important background. Virginia, where open carry is in the state constitution and permits are only necessary to carry concealed, is a pretty good place for gun people. Drive into DC, and you can be jailed for having a fired brass case in your car; it happened to the wife of a VA cop who had been practicing with a .22LR handgun and had some cases catch in her pants cuffs. Maryland is equally fruity. So, by driving 20 miles from our home at the time, you could be violating the law as soon as you crossed a state border. We kept the cars scrupulously clean because of this.

    Add to this the variation in local police departments. All interactions I ever had with Fairfax County police were professional and satisfactory. Manassas, not so much.

    I think that the lesson is that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

    • #53
  24. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Arahant (View Comment):
    . The police departments are usually small, and may only have a few part-time officers who have nothing else to do. These towns are often on US routes where it slows from 55 mph to 20-25 mph, like Bainbridge, Indiana on US 36. Do not speed in Bainbridge. Like Richard Fulmer suggested above, use you cruise control or a steady eye on your speedometer if you go through a place like that.

    Add Augusta, Michigan to the list of towns where you should use your cruise control. You might get by a mph or two above the posted speed limit, but even that is not risk-free.

    • #54
  25. jaWes Member
    jaWes
    @jaWesofTX

    Police departments should consider the effects on civilian perceptions of the police when deciding what kind of tickets to write. I had a very negative perception of the police department in the low-crime suburb I used to live in, because it seemed they spent all their time writing tickets over trivial infractions.

    My wife received a ticket for going 45 in a 35. We traveled that road frequently and no one drove 35 on that road. No one. There were no residences or business on that stretch of road so 45 was not an unreasonable speed at all. But the police department would on rare occasions decide to enforce the 35 limit.

    I received a ticket for “running” a stop sign in our neighborhood… meaning my car only slowed to 0.1 mph instead of 0.0 mph. It was the only time I’ve ever been pulled over for a traffic violation in my 24 years of driving. It was a 4-way stop and the cop was hiding down the cul-de-sac. No other cars were approaching the intersection. There was nothing remotely dangerous about my driving. There was no discussion, he just took my license and came back with my ticket. It was very clearly a revenue generating or quota fulfilling activity.

    My neighbor received a ticket for having an expired registration on his trailer that was parked on the road. He wasn’t even towing it. I’m sure it was technically illegal to have it parked on the road with an expired registration, but maybe a simple “sir, you’ll need to move your trailer into your driveway or get the registration renewed” could have sufficed.

    I heard other examples too and the net effect was that I assumed the police were primarily out to write tickets for any tiny little infraction so I preferred not to have any interactions at all with them. I liken it to sitting on the side of the US highway that ran through town and writing flat rate tickets for going 1 mph above the posted speed limit. After all, the speed limit is 45, so if you’re going 46 you’re speeding and you should get a speeding ticket.

    • #55
  26. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    jaWes (View Comment):

    Police departments should consider the effects on civilian perceptions of the police when deciding what kind of tickets to write. I had a very negative perception of the police department in the low-crime suburb I used to live in, because it seemed they spent all their time writing tickets over trivial infractions.

    My wife received a ticket for going 45 in a 35. We traveled that road frequently and no one drove 35 on that road. No one. There were no residences or business on that stretch of road so 45 was not an unreasonable speed at all. But the police department would on rare occasions decide to enforce the 35 limit.

    I received a ticket for “running” a stop sign in our neighborhood… meaning my car only slowed to 0.1 mph instead of 0.0 mph. It was the only time I’ve ever been pulled over for a traffic violation in my 24 years of driving. It was a 4-way stop and the cop was hiding down the cul-de-sac. No other cars were approaching the intersection. There was nothing remotely dangerous about my driving. There was no discussion, he just took my license and came back with my ticket. It was very clearly a revenue generating or quota fulfilling activity.

    My neighbor received a ticket for having an expired registration on his trailer that was parked on the road. He wasn’t even towing it. I’m sure it was technically illegal to have it parked on the road with an expired registration, but maybe a simple “sir, you’ll need to move your trailer into your driveway or get the registration renewed” could have sufficed.

    I heard other examples too and the net effect was that I assumed the police were primarily out to write tickets for any tiny little infraction so I preferred not to have any interactions at all with them. I liken it to sitting on the side of the US highway that ran through town and writing flat rate tickets for going 1 mph above the posted speed limit. After all, the speed limit is 45, so if you’re going 46 you’re speeding and you should get a speeding ticket.

    Yes, but you should be thankful that these men in blue are the only thing between you and the complete collapse of all society.   Or else you’re a pinko commie.

    • #56
  27. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):
    In short, if you consider their perspective, they will often consider yours. 

    Reminds me of the time as a teenager I was a passenger in a car after TPing someone’s house. Police stopped the car for a taillight issue. When driver opened the trunk so he and police officer could see if it was a fixable loose wire (completely forgetting that the remainder of our toilet paper supplies were in the trunk), the [young] police officer saw the packages of toilet paper and asked, “On your way, or are you already done?” We assured him we were already done. He didn’t do anything official to us, but his question let us know that he was aware of what we were doing, and he would be keeping an eye out for us around town that night if we weren’t telling the truth. 

    • #57
  28. Slow on the uptake Coolidge
    Slow on the uptake
    @Chuckles

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    I am cited only 15% of the times I am stopped.

    How often are y’all stopped? I must be doing something right. The last time I remember being stopped was December 7th, 1998. Before that must have been the late 1980’s, before I moved to Michigan. Before that, it was around 1984 on a night when I borrowed my brother’s car and the police were looking for a similar car from a hit-and-run.

    About 20 times over the years. I like to speed.

    Is that an admission of criminal behavior by someone sworn to uphold the law?  :)

    • #58
  29. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Slow on the uptake (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    I am cited only 15% of the times I am stopped.

    How often are y’all stopped? I must be doing something right. The last time I remember being stopped was December 7th, 1998. Before that must have been the late 1980’s, before I moved to Michigan. Before that, it was around 1984 on a night when I borrowed my brother’s car and the police were looking for a similar car from a hit-and-run.

    About 20 times over the years. I like to speed.

    Is that an admission of criminal behavior by someone sworn to uphold the law? :)

    Ah!  But under A.R.S. Section 28-701A, a driver needs to be going only a “reasonable and prudent” speed.  It that is in excess of the posted speed limit, the burden of proof is on the driver to show that it is reasonable and prudent.  In other words, the posted speed “limit” should be called the posted speed “presumption.”

    • #59
  30. Slow on the uptake Coolidge
    Slow on the uptake
    @Chuckles

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Slow on the uptake (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    I am cited only 15% of the times I am stopped.

    How often are y’all stopped? I must be doing something right. The last time I remember being stopped was December 7th, 1998. Before that must have been the late 1980’s, before I moved to Michigan. Before that, it was around 1984 on a night when I borrowed my brother’s car and the police were looking for a similar car from a hit-and-run.

    About 20 times over the years. I like to speed.

    Is that an admission of criminal behavior by someone sworn to uphold the law? :)

    Ah! But under A.R.S. Section 28-701A, a driver needs to be going only a “reasonable and prudent” speed. It that is in excess of the posted speed limit, the burden of proof is on the driver to show that it is reasonable and prudent. In other words, the posted speed “limit” should be called the posted speed “presumption.”

    Ha!  Teach me to harass a lawyer!

    • #60
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