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Minnesota City Council Stops Reciting Pledge of Allegiance
Is it really a big deal that a small Midwestern city stops reciting the Pledge of Allegiance? My answer is, “yes,” and I’ll tell you why. The city council of St. Louis Park voted unanimously to stop reciting the Pledge. Here were some of their remarks regarding this decision:
Ellen Hertz, a business owner in the city, says she has no problem with the change, but doesn’t think it was necessary.
‘In terms of what would offend people and what offends me, that’s not at the top of the list,’ Hertz said.
Mayor Jake Spano wasn’t at the meeting when this change was approved. He says getting rid of the pledge wasn’t a big priority for him.
Spano told CBS Minnesota via email: ‘I think there are more substantive things we should be working on to make our city more open and welcoming.’
Welcoming to whom? I checked the demographics of the city: The population is just under 50,000; the city is 81% white; 96% have attended high school, 4% have attended college; the median household income is $71,346. In other words, it’s a pretty prosperous, blue-collar, Midwestern community. So who is pushing this agenda?
Even though the vote was unanimous, they are going to revote on the issue July 8.
One Council Member had this to say:
‘I hope it’s not too controversial,’ [Tim] Brausen said. ‘Our community tends to be a very welcoming and increasingly diverse community, and we believe our citizens will understand … Unfortunately, some of us feel like patriotism has been so politicized that it’s almost used as a weapon against people.’
His comment makes me wonder about a few things: Who originally proposed this change? Why would his citizens “understand?” What makes him think their community is “increasingly diverse” when it’s not? And why does he think that’s important?
Why do so many council members seem indifferent to this decision?
(I couldn’t find a tally of other city councils that don’t recite the pledge.)
It’s too bad when patriotism is seen as a highly politicized issue.
Published in Politics
His thoughts on the matter are somewhat ruff.
True, but probably more coherent than those of many politicians….
At our school board meetings the first thing we do is recite the pledge, followed by the Texas pledge. If anyone suggested eliminating either, it would be a huge problem. Said trustee would be voted out at the next opportunity.
I like Colonel Balch’s version better.
Really, it’s a loyalty oath, which I have no real issues with, but there’s something about it that sits uncomfortably with me and it doesn’t quite mirror Balch’s version.
I think a number of us, when we think about it, aren’t completely comfortable with it, @cm. The question is: do we eliminate it from government settings, because parts of it don’t sit well with us? Do we discuss (again) modifying it, and risk losing it completely? (I know you’re just voicing your own feelings, but it does raise an interesting question.)
So maybe the larger question is, should we “make do,” although it is imperfect, or would those who are uncomfortable with it elect to change it? It’s a tough issue for some of us.
@susanquinn,
Great post. I have two thoughts. First, I like the pledge just for the general point that when kids recite it we are teaching them that there is a world, a purpose, and values outside of themselves. Our culture is so self obsessed that to show allegiance to anything but your own truth creating self is considered heretical.
Two, I just got out of the Army, I’m a little older and only served one contract and I would ask the new privates, the ones that are 18,19, and 20 what their first thoughts were when they thought about American history. The vast majority of the people I asked said slavery and the extermination of Native Americans. This is what is taught to our children about their nation’s history. It is so sad and in ten or twenty years I don’t believe we’ll have a pledge anymore because who would swear allegiance to an evil, racist country? And to these young people, that’s all we are.
Excellent comment, @josephstocks (and thank you). I so appreciate your reasoning, and would love for kids to be told the general point as you describe it. What a gift that would be. Your second point and your reasoning might unfortunately be true. Why should they want to pledge their lives to such a terrible country?
Thank you for your service, too.
Well, I have no problem with the pledge or saying it.
Susan, do you know the nickname for the Minneapolis suburb under discussion?
It is Saint Jewish Park. I stayed with a distant relative there for a few days when I started grad school in 1971, and they told me that. That might shed some light on the actions of the city council, since Jews tend to be very progressive, and they are “progressive” first and everything else later, even Jewish. Howard Zinn was Jewish, and he wrote the definitive “hate America” history textbook.
Wow, I didn’t know that, @rushbabe49. Yes, I would assume they are no different than the vast majority of Jews in this country. Still fascinating.
It’s funny, because I was just thinking about how we recite the pledge, and how that might be framing some of the reaction, @eb. If we started it with this rhythm, all on the same line with no pause:
“I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America . . . “
We’re always talking about the way we say things is just as important as the words. Just wondering . . .
“My domestic policies are simple; alpo in every bowl! scritches for ALL! …thank you. And my foreign policy; invaders get barked at, pure and simple. If they bark back, we bark LOUDER! Food! Comfort! And an end to the alien menace! Reelect Master in 2020! Thank you!”
@susanquinn Could be. It makes a difference in many other areas.
To be honest, some of these comments – “I’m a classic liberal,” “it’s statist,” “it’s fascist,”it’s progressive and socialist” hit me as a little too precious by half. Have any of you actually read the pledge recently?
There is no law requiring any person to say the pledge. If your sensibilities are so tender or your support for the country so weak that you can’t say it, then just don’t say it.
But you really might want to think about why you would find it hard to pledge allegiance and support to the U.S. Isn’t the fact that we want to protect and defend America and its ideals the main reason we are all reading and posting on Ricochet?
We ask our new citizens to swear to “support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” I watched my husband say that proudly almost twenty years ago. Are we who are born here supposed to do less?
Beautifully said, @eb. Maybe the Progressive agenda is starting to work on us . . .
I, the Bob dog, am a neoclassic liberal. That means I don’t care what you do with one another in bed, as long as I get my treats and walks in the evening.
Forget I said that. I got confused. I thought we were talking about the gay pride thing. That was another thread I was following.
I’m not smart enough to have an opinion about the Pledge. All I know is that Arahant is wrong. I don’t know what he’s wrong about, but I know he’s barking up the wrong tree.
Supporting/defending the Constitution and law against enemies is something I can get behind. Allying with physical object is, if not idolatrous, at least risky as that symbol is used by people as reprehensible as car salesmen and politicians.
‘Under God’ is not something atheists or polytheists should be required to say – I can’t imagine Christians et. al. being cool with ‘under Gods’, and the tenor of the resistance to taking ‘under God’ out is self-explanatory.
In the ’70s I got corporal punshiment in Jr HS for not saying the pledge – so I have personally witnessed it being compulsory.
50 years ago.
The above paragraphs each address something almost every American gets at least one opportunity to say. The Pledge is mostly ritual with little damage likely to result regardless of how an individual views it and engages. The second is an oath and is frequently the beginning of an endeavor where many Americans are depending on how seriously one is about taking the oath. I consider the oath a much more substantive act about which I care because a failure to abide by the oath may have a future deleterious effect on Americans.
Late ’70s. I’m not old, or, y’know…old-old.
Reparations? I’m kidding, I agree with you. I doubt it’s mandatory anywhere now.
Does someone named Omar ring a bell and does she represent Minnesota? Here is part of a story from Feb. 2019:
“For over a decade, Islamist terror groups have been able to recruit from Minnesota. This is, in part, because Minnesota has a large Muslim population compared to other parts of the U.S,” said Robin Simcox, a terrorism and national security expert at The Heritage Foundation. “However, it is also because there have been small segments of the Somali community there that have struggled to integrate into the U.S. Al-Shabaab and ISIS have exploited this – upon religious, political cultural and identity issues to offer a compelling alternative to Western democracy.”
https://www.foxnews.com/us/how-rep-ilhan-omars-minnesota-district-became-the-terrorist-recruitment-capital-of-the-us-officials-highly-concerned
Minnesota has drawn a lot of attention in that it seems to be a hornet’s nest for controversy. I think of Minnesota as the heartland, all American, bread and butter – so your story causes me concern. The fact that the leadership is so flippant and nonchalant about discarding the Pledge of Allegiance is something that should not be ignored – thank you Susan for flagging it – no pun intended!!
Deciding that the Pledge is divisive, is surrendering to division.
If this is what you object to, then you are an agent of division and chaos.
Actually, Susan, you got a lot of interest in your presentation of this topic considering how little information was available regarding why and how this action came about. And they are going to take another vote. Don’t propositions such as this, when presented for a vote, usually get some material to support why it is being motioned and seconded for a vote?
I have no problem with that statement. I would happily pledge that every day. That is supporting the Rule of Law.
Pledging to a flag and an amorphous republic doesn’t convey that. North Korea’s official name is “Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.” Hey, they have a flag, too. The Roman Empire called itself the Roman Republic for a thousand years after the republic had fallen. We shall no doubt have a “republic” in name long after the Constitution is revoked or replaced by something more Progressive. But even if it retains the name, it will no longer be the United States of America that I would pledge to defend. I’m here to support and defend the ideas embedded in the original Constitution and in the Rule of Law, not the rule of Man.
The two are not equivalent. Our Founding Fathers went through a lot to make that happen. I preserve the tradition.
😜
Pledging allegiance to a symbol does, actually, alter what you tolerate.
I pledge allegiance to God and country. Why place the symbol there instead? What happens when the flag stops being a symbol of God and our nation? Like it being a symbol of an empire, for instance? So no, what a symbol symbolizes changes.*
Our church’s vbs did pledges to the bible, the cross, and the Christian flag. Every one of those rubbed me wrong. I mean, all those should represent the SAME thing, right? And yet there were three pledges of allegiance to 3 different symbols. Where was the pledge to God?
@eb, your “precious by half” is insulting to people who actually care what pledge or oath they are making. They take it seriously, it’s not just a meaningless gesture to them. Seems that should mean something.
*I say this as someone who puts a lot of stock in symbols and symbolism – I don’t count them as empty or worthless; they communicate as much as they represent.
I too am an agent of chaos. I joined the division division as a force multiplier.
I don’t think they expected all the pushback, especially from the Leftist press.
I’m sure not. I reckon most city councils don’t do a pledge in the first place, so these guys figured no one would really care.
Someone always cares.