Minnesota City Council Stops Reciting Pledge of Allegiance

 

Is it really a big deal that a small Midwestern city stops reciting the Pledge of Allegiance? My answer is, “yes,” and I’ll tell you why. The city council of St. Louis Park voted unanimously to stop reciting the Pledge. Here were some of their remarks regarding this decision:

Ellen Hertz, a business owner in the city, says she has no problem with the change, but doesn’t think it was necessary.

‘In terms of what would offend people and what offends me, that’s not at the top of the list,’ Hertz said.

Mayor Jake Spano wasn’t at the meeting when this change was approved. He says getting rid of the pledge wasn’t a big priority for him.

Spano told CBS Minnesota via email: ‘I think there are more substantive things we should be working on to make our city more open and welcoming.’

Welcoming to whom? I checked the demographics of the city: The population is just under 50,000; the city is 81% white; 96% have attended high school, 4% have attended college; the median household income is $71,346. In other words, it’s a pretty prosperous, blue-collar, Midwestern community. So who is pushing this agenda?

Even though the vote was unanimous, they are going to revote on the issue July 8.

One Council Member had this to say:

‘I hope it’s not too controversial,’ [Tim] Brausen said. ‘Our community tends to be a very welcoming and increasingly diverse community, and we believe our citizens will understand … Unfortunately, some of us feel like patriotism has been so politicized that it’s almost used as a weapon against people.’

His comment makes me wonder about a few things: Who originally proposed this change? Why would his citizens “understand?” What makes him think their community is “increasingly diverse” when it’s not? And why does he think that’s important?

Why do so many council members seem indifferent to this decision?

(I couldn’t find a tally of other city councils that don’t recite the pledge.)

It’s too bad when patriotism is seen as a highly politicized issue.

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  1. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    Perfect. What is there to object to? Nothing. To my surprise I’m finding it more disgraceful that people on the right reject the pledge.

    I think that we have to be fair toward the people who are not comfortable with the pledge, and those people who reject it. To me, there’s a big difference. I have little problem with people who are not comfortable with the wording or the process; I always believe people are entitled to their feelings. But I would hope that if they were in a situation where the pledge was recited, they would stand respectfully.

    Let’s not be the thought police, folks. We get enough of that from the Left!

    Edit: good to see you, @manny!

    I guess I’m just sick of the disrespect people pay to our nation, no matter where it comes from and what the excuse.  Good to see you too Susan.

    • #91
  2. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Arahant (View Comment):
    But if your patriotism is of the blood and soil variety

    I’m going to quibble with you on the blood part, but I can live with excluding the soil part.

    Why?

    Because the country’s laws are only good in what they have done for a country’s people and they can only be upheld by that country’s people. God and Country is God and my people and what we have built together.

    So, yes blood. And a little bit of soil.

    • #92
  3. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    We spilled blood in 1812 to assert that America is open to new citizens. 

    Huh?

    • #93
  4. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Isn’t this a nice coordination to Susan’s post.  Just came across an article on how the words “under God” were added.  Apparently Catholics had a vital role in this.

    “In 1951, the Knights of Columbus held their national meeting. They passed a resolution to say ‘under God’ after the word ‘one nation’ at their internal meetings.

    “One year later, all Knights councils did this when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance at the beginning of every meeting. So at the next year’s meeting, they said, ‘Let’s get this on a national level. This is great!’

    “They then sent letters to the president, vice president, and the speaker of the House, but there was no response. So the following year, they sent a letter to every single member of Congress saying, “We would like to add the words ‘under God’ to the Pledge of Allegiance.

    “That year, 17 different legislators in the House of Representatives submitted a bill for its passage, adding the words ‘under God’ to the Pledge of Allegiance.

    “In 1954, a joint resolution of congress passed one of those 17 bills. Eisenhower signed it on Flag Day on June 14, 1954.”

    It doesn’t say they originally thought of the idea, but I did not realize the Knights of Columbus were so critical to it.  

    • #94
  5. RyanFalcone Member
    RyanFalcone
    @RyanFalcone

    I said “The Pledge” every day at school from the time I was five. I don’t remember a time when I didn’t understand what it symbolized. Maybe I wasn’t as stupid as everyone else but what that pledge means to school kids is that wherever you slept last night or however you got here and whoever you are, you are an American and with that title comes certain rights and responsibilities and while we are all here in this school, you will be treated as such and be held to those ideals.

    When I was a Junior in HS the NAACP came to our school and had an assembly for the black students and only the black students. Shortly after that, a black girl in my homeroom became the first person I ever saw or heard of to refuse to stand for it or recite it. She also became a virulent racist and caused a couple of my closest buddies to follow her down that path.

    As I read these comments in this thread, I find it so disappointing. These are the folks who are on  the good side and yet so many have no idea what they believe and/or why they should believe it and they are easily brainwashed  into thinking that an attempt to help them do so is somehow “fascism” or some other strange bastardization of civic responsibility.

    Maybe I’m just too emotionally connected to this issue due to the deeply painful story I shared above though.

     

    • #95
  6. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):

    I said “The Pledge” every day at school from the time I was five. I don’t remember a time when I didn’t understand what it symbolized. Maybe I wasn’t as stupid as everyone else but what that pledge means to school kids is that wherever you slept last night or however you got here and whoever you are, you are an American and with that title comes certain rights and responsibilities and while we are all here in this school, you will be treated as such and be held to those ideals.

    When I was a Junior in HS the NAACP came to our school and had an assembly for the black students and only the black students. Shortly after that, a black girl in my homeroom became the first person I ever saw or heard of to refuse to stand for it or recite it. She also became a virulent racist and caused a couple of my closest buddies to follow her down that path.

    As I read these comments in this thread, I find it so disappointing. These are the folks who are on the good side and yet so many have no idea what they believe and/or why they should believe it and they are easily brainwashed into thinking that an attempt to help them do so is somehow “fascism” or some other strange bastardization of civic responsibility.

    Maybe I’m just too emotionally connected to this issue due to the deeply painful story I shared above though.

     

    I’m so sorry, @ryanfalcone. Those early incidents can shape us in so many ways. It is tragic to see how people can be changed for the worst by people who have an agenda.

    • #96
  7. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    The history of it is a bit troubling, but the addition of the words “under God” make all the difference for me. No one will find those two words in any communist country’s government documents. Those two words are a constant reminder to the nation’s leaders that they are not gods and that our rights come not from a king or a city council member but from a truly higher authority. 

     

    • #97
  8. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    MarciN (View Comment):

    The history of it is a bit troubling, but the addition of the words “under God” make all the difference for me. No one will find those two words in any communist country’s government documents. Those two words are a constant reminder to the nation’s leaders that they are not gods and that our rights come not from a king or a city council member but from a truly higher authority.

     

    Those two words ruin it for me.  But the whole idea of a “pledge” stinks regardless of which words are used.

    • #98
  9. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Skyler (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    The history of it is a bit troubling, but the addition of the words “under God” make all the difference for me. No one will find those two words in any communist country’s government documents. Those two words are a constant reminder to the nation’s leaders that they are not gods and that our rights come not from a king or a city council member but from a truly higher authority.

    Those two words ruin it for me. But the whole idea of a “pledge” stinks regardless of which words are used.

    Even in my most agnostic moments, I want to have leaders who believe there is a God they will account to some day.

    I don’t like the idea of a loyalty oath either. That said, I like ours. It’s a nice reminder in the global community we live in that there is an important country here and that individual countries, and by extension, individuals, matter. We’re not some big formless blob.

    The Chinese Communists have a very warped view of the Chinese people. It’s hard to describe, but it’s very commoditized. We have to resist that attitude with all of our strength. The left is seducing our young people over to that viewpoint more and more.

    I respect that it’s hard for people to say those two words when they don’t believe them, but people don’t have to say them.

    I think saying it every day in classrooms is a bit much–doing so almost begs for rebellion! :-)– but it’s right and appropriate in some moments of our civic life.

    • #99
  10. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Even in my most agnostic moments, I want to have leaders who believe there is a God they will account to some day.

    Even in my least cynical moments, I never think it’s remotely possible, despite their pious claims, that political leaders believe there is any god except for themselves, or if they do they believe then they conclude that they are the hand of god.  These loyalty oaths exist only to do what people are doing here:  Force people to mouth words that they may or may not actually believe, thereby giving the worst among us a veil to hide behind.

    • #100
  11. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Manny (View Comment):

    It is a big deal and this goes in line with the Colin Kaepernick line of protesting, and, indeed, hating of America. I suspect this will be a trend among Liberals. And apparently after reading some of the comments here among those on the right. I suspect they are more Libertarian than conservative. If you can’t have a communal moment of honor to the country, people, and traditions in which you live, then such a nation will surely weaken. If you can’t instill that love and honor for one’s country, people, and traditions in the youth, you are sowing the seeds of a nation’s decline. In effect, this has been going on since the late sixties, and yes the nation has declined.

    By the way, trying to find time for Ricochet. It’s just tough with my schedule, but doubly so during baseball season.

    I like you first paragraph but I doubly like your last. Baseball is the only sport that really grabs and hold my attention and it approaches perfection in the same way as the American Ideal. Every time a hitter is thrown out by half-a-step,  or beats the throw if he is fast, at first base from deep short this registers with me. And we mess with the game in the same stupid ways we mess with the nation. 

    • #101
  12. Mark Wilson Inactive
    Mark Wilson
    @MarkWilson

    Manny (View Comment):
    If you can’t instill that love and honor for one’s country, people, and traditions in the youth, you are sowing the seeds of a nation’s decline.

    Is it your view that city councilors reciting the pledge during sparsely attended meetings “instills” in our youth love and honor for our country, people, and traditions?  

    • #102
  13. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Mark Wilson (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    If you can’t instill that love and honor for one’s country, people, and traditions in the youth, you are sowing the seeds of a nation’s decline.

    Is it your view that city councilors reciting the pledge during sparsely attended meetings “instills” in our youth love and honor for our country, people, and traditions?

    That was in reference to kids at schools having to recite the pledge.  I had to as a kid.  

    • #103
  14. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    It is a big deal and this goes in line with the Colin Kaepernick line of protesting, and, indeed, hating of America. I suspect this will be a trend among Liberals. And apparently after reading some of the comments here among those on the right. I suspect they are more Libertarian than conservative. If you can’t have a communal moment of honor to the country, people, and traditions in which you live, then such a nation will surely weaken. If you can’t instill that love and honor for one’s country, people, and traditions in the youth, you are sowing the seeds of a nation’s decline. In effect, this has been going on since the late sixties, and yes the nation has declined.

    By the way, trying to find time for Ricochet. It’s just tough with my schedule, but doubly so during baseball season.

    I like you first paragraph but I doubly like your last. Baseball is the only sport that really grabs and hold my attention and it approaches perfection in the same way as the American Ideal. Every time a hitter is thrown out by half-a-step, or beats the throw if he is fast, at first base from deep short this registers with me. And we mess with the game in the same stupid ways we mess with the nation.

    Me too Bob.  The complexity and beauty of baseball is incomparable in sports, and the love one builds for one’s team rivals other loves.  (Don’t tell my wife.)  And it has to have captured your heart when you watch the Baltimore Orioles almost every night as a fan, because, man, that is suffering.  ;)  You know, I also love just throwing a baseball around with my son.  The pop of the ball smacking the pocket of the glove just feels so good.

    • #104
  15. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Mark Wilson (View Comment):
    However, when it comes to officers of the government or members of the military, I think some kind of pledge is warranted.

    Their oath is to the Constitution and laws, not the flag and “republic.” As I said earlier in the thread, that is an oath I can take without qualms.

    Would that failure in fidelity to that oath would make one a pariah. 

    • #105
  16. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    TBA (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Mark Wilson (View Comment):
    However, when it comes to officers of the government or members of the military, I think some kind of pledge is warranted.

    Their oath is to the Constitution and laws, not the flag and “republic.” As I said earlier in the thread, that is an oath I can take without qualms.

    Would that failure in fidelity to that oath would make one a pariah.

    You mean failure to have an allegiance to one’s country?  Or failure to pledge?  The first strikes me as subversive.  The second strikes me as childish, like one of those hippies from the sixties.

    • #106
  17. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Manny (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Mark Wilson (View Comment):
    However, when it comes to officers of the government or members of the military, I think some kind of pledge is warranted.

    Their oath is to the Constitution and laws, not the flag and “republic.” As I said earlier in the thread, that is an oath I can take without qualms.

    Would that failure in fidelity to that oath would make one a pariah.

    You mean failure to have an allegiance to one’s country? Or failure to pledge? The first strikes me as subversive. The second strikes me as childish, like one of those hippies from the sixties.

    He means that politicians who take an oath of fidelity to the Constitution and laws often wipe their hindquarters with the documents instead, and suffer no penalties for doing so.

    • #107
  18. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    What occurs to me is that I have no control over what other people choose to do or not do, whether they are sincere or not, whether they will behave in a way that is productive or not–all of these situations are not up to me to enforce, monitor or even care about. So if a City Council member chooses not to say the pledge, I couldn’t care less. To eliminate the pledge, however, because some people don’t like it or don’t want to recite it is disrespectful, especially if the pledge has been recited in the past.

    • #108
  19. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Mark Wilson (View Comment):
    However, when it comes to officers of the government or members of the military, I think some kind of pledge is warranted.

    Their oath is to the Constitution and laws, not the flag and “republic.” As I said earlier in the thread, that is an oath I can take without qualms.

    Would that failure in fidelity to that oath would make one a pariah.

    You mean failure to have an allegiance to one’s country? Or failure to pledge? The first strikes me as subversive. The second strikes me as childish, like one of those hippies from the sixties.

    He means that politicians who take an oath of fidelity to the Constitution and laws often wipe their hindquarters with the documents instead, and suffer no penalties for doing so.

    Fidelity to an oath taken to defend the Constitution means the Constitution as it is written, not some non-existent version one might wish it was. We know that major league baseball pitchers who can’t throw strikes might like to have home plate made a little wider than its seventeen inches but that doesn’t happen. They get sent to the minors instead or out of the game. This is what should happen to politicians who don’t meet standards for governing according to oaths taken.

    • #109
  20. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):
    Fidelity to an oath taken to defend the Constitution means the Constitution as it is written, not some non-existent version one might wish it was. We know that major league baseball pitchers who can’t throw strikes might like to have home plate made a little wider than its seventeen inches but that doesn’t happen. They get sent to the minors instead or out of the game. This is what should happen to politicians who don’t meet standards for governing according to oaths taken.

    Amen, brother! You’re preaching to the choir here. But how do we convince those in places like New York City to get rid of their elected officials for violating their oaths of office? How do we convince them that it’s even important?

    • #110
  21. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Looking at what I wrote above, I realize that I have all Democratic representation in Washington at the moment. How do I convince my neighbors that the Constitution matters?

    • #111
  22. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):
    Fidelity to an oath taken to defend the Constitution means the Constitution as it is written, not some non-existent version one might wish it was. We know that major league baseball pitchers who can’t throw strikes might like to have home plate made a little wider than its seventeen inches but that doesn’t happen. They get sent to the minors instead or out of the game. This is what should happen to politicians who don’t meet standards for governing according to oaths taken.

    Amen, brother! You’re preaching to the choir here. But how do we convince those in places like New York City to get rid of their elected officials for violating their oaths of office? How do we convince them that it’s even important?

    Obviously, our society has taken an approach that fails to consider maintaining standards in general as important. This is openness. I don’t know how to convince them of anything beyond their experiencing the consequences. The concept of sustaining a society by keeping things that work and discarding things that don’t work gets no traction today. Have you noticed how little regard is given today to all the effort expended in America to rid us of the institution of slavery and to build instead a country in which opportunity is there for all? As if that never happened.

    • #112
  23. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Mark Wilson (View Comment):
    However, when it comes to officers of the government or members of the military, I think some kind of pledge is warranted.

    Their oath is to the Constitution and laws, not the flag and “republic.” As I said earlier in the thread, that is an oath I can take without qualms.

    Would that failure in fidelity to that oath would make one a pariah.

    You mean failure to have an allegiance to one’s country? Or failure to pledge? The first strikes me as subversive. The second strikes me as childish, like one of those hippies from the sixties.

    He means that politicians who take an oath of fidelity to the Constitution and laws often wipe their hindquarters with the documents instead, and suffer no penalties for doing so.

    If they wipe their hindquarters with the constitution they should be pariahs.  

    • #113
  24. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Manny (View Comment):
    If they wipe their hindquarters with the constitution they should be pariahs.

    Amen, brother!

    • #114
  25. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):
    As I read these comments in this thread, I find it so disappointing. These are the folks who are on the good side and yet so many have no idea what they believe and/or why they should believe it and they are easily brainwashed into thinking that an attempt to help them do so is somehow “fascism” or some other strange bastardization of civic responsibility.

    Recently I was baptized into the Baptist church. If any here had been following my frustrations with my church and my personal journey, you might be surprised (I am far too orthodox for the Baptist church).

    One woman was surprised I was struggling with it. “She knows her Bible,” she said to a friend. My friend answered, “it’s because she knows it so well that she is struggling.”

    Point being, maybe its because we DO understand it and are not brainwashed that we struggle with saying the pledge of allegiance.

    • #115
  26. Mark Wilson Inactive
    Mark Wilson
    @MarkWilson

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Looking at what I wrote above, I realize that I have all Democratic representation in Washington at the moment. How do I convince my neighbors that the Constitution matters?

    The Constitution is primarily an impediment to most progressive causes.  Amendment 1 blocks hate speech laws, protects Christian bakers, and guarantees the right to create political literature and films.  Amendment 2 blocks gun bans.  Amendments 5 and 14 block attempts to subvert due process.  Article 1 is supposed to prevent the President from spending money without Congressional approval.

    The president who shares my last name was the quintessential progressive and he openly rejected the Constitution.

    • #116
  27. RyanFalcone Member
    RyanFalcone
    @RyanFalcone

    Stina (View Comment):

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):
    As I read these comments in this thread, I find it so disappointing. These are the folks who are on the good side and yet so many have no idea what they believe and/or why they should believe it and they are easily brainwashed into thinking that an attempt to help them do so is somehow “fascism” or some other strange bastardization of civic responsibility.

    Recently I was baptized into the Baptist church. If any here had been following my frustrations with my church and my personal journey, you might be surprised (I am far too orthodox for the Baptist church).

    One woman was surprised I was struggling with it. “She knows her Bible,” she said to a friend. My friend answered, “it’s because she knows it so well that she is struggling.”

    Point being, maybe its because we DO understand it and are not brainwashed that we struggle with saying the pledge of allegiance.

    I think you are placing baggage onto the Pledge that ought not be there. I understand not trusting Gov’t but the basic ideal of the Pledge and why it is said in a place like a council chambers is that folks need to be reminded that before we discuss contentious topics, we need to acknowledge what unites us. It is the same reason we sing the Anthem before sporting events. 

    It is very interesting that you are a Baptist in that they place a very high value on independence from centralized, man-made authority and yet almost all individual churches in the denomination are very strong on fundamental principles. 

    The point is, if we don’t have a Pledge or a flag or borders……what’s the point? America is a word without any meaning at all or any purpose. Its over. 

    • #117
  28. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):
    if we don’t have a Pledge or a flag or borders……what’s the point?

    Two of these things are not like the other.

    The pledge, as has been explained, does not have a pristine history and comes out of the Progressive/Christian Socialist movement.

    The flag is a symbol. Every country has one. States and provinces have them. Cities and towns have them. Regiments and other military units often have their own. The flag is not important. It is the Constitution and laws of this country that are important. The Rule of Law is important. But the flag? It’s only importance is as a symbol of all that other stuff. In fact, vexillologically, Old Glory is rather a poor design, although there is plenty of meaning behind it.

    The borders, on the other hand, are important in and of themselves. And our laws reflect that. It is the administration (including funding) of those laws that is the problem.

    • #118
  29. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Arahant (View Comment):
    vexillologically

    For those of you wondering what our erudite Arahant is saying:

    Vexillology (/ˌvɛksɪˈlɒləi/) is the study of the history, symbolism and usage of flags or, by extension, any interest in flags in general.[1] The word is a synthesis of the Latin word vexillum (“flag”) and the Greek suffix -logia (“study”).[2]

    • #119
  30. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):
    vexillologically

    For those of you wondering what our erudite Arahant is saying:

    Vexillology (/ˌvɛksɪˈlɒlədʒi/) is the study of the history, symbolism and usage of flags or, by extension, any interest in flags in general.[1] The word is a synthesis of the Latin word vexillum (“flag”) and the Greek suffix -logia (“study”).[2]

    For the use of that word, I demand Arahant give us a Sheldon-esque series of Vexillology =p

    • #120
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