Corporations as Nations

 

Science fiction often predicts future technologies, quandaries, or at least identifies a general direction of development. These days, the genre is most often associated with off-Earth adventures, artificial intelligence, and robotics. Another common theme has elicited fewer comparisons to reality in mainstream press: government by mega-corporations.

We limited-government conservatives and libertarians recognize the problems and dangers of regulatory capture. We know that over-regulation of industries can lead to revolving doors and cozy deals that give the largest corporations unjust advantages over smaller companies.

The fictional concept of mega-corporations, perhaps most popular in the cyberpunk subgenre of sci-fi media, goes further. It proposes scenarios by which corporations become more powerful than governments; or that corporations become fully equivalent governments, complete with private militaries and exclusive control of entire cities. These companies brutally enforce obedience among their employees, battle other companies with espionage and with bullets, and either control politicians overtly or completely ignore them while acting without regard of civic laws.

Is this enduring theme predictive of future dangers or merely imaginative commentary on current concerns? Like zombie fiction, does it host real problems (ex: survival amid anarchy, such as currently witnessed in Venezuela) within an unbelievable setting? Or should we indeed worry that historical examples of corporate espionage, company towns, and the like are precursors to much more frightening developments in corporate corruption?

Some examples of all-powerful corporations are found in the Dune novels, in the films Blade Runner and The Terminator, and in video games like The Syndicate and Cyberpunk 2077.

Published in Entertainment
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  1. dnewlander Inactive
    dnewlander
    @dnewlander

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    Most corps. just die off. The longest running companies are all family owned.

    As far as I know, the oldest continually-run company is the world is Twinnings, the tea company. It started in 1706. Lloyd’s has been around since 1688, but only as an informal arrangement. Twinnings was a family-owned company that became a corporation. Lloyd’s was an informal assembly that became a corporation.

    Per Wiki:

    Historian Eric Williams notes: “Lloyd’s, like other insurance companies, insured slaves and slave ships, and was vitally interested in legal decisions as to what constituted ‘natural death’ and ‘perils of the sea’.”[5] Lloyd’s obtained a monopoly on maritime insurance related to the slave trade and maintained it until the early 19th century.

    Obviously, it must be shut down, and all the assets given to those who suffered. – AOC

    • #31
  2. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    dnewlander (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    Most corps. just die off. The longest running companies are all family owned.

    As far as I know, the oldest continually-run company is the world is Twinnings, the tea company. It started in 1706. Lloyd’s has been around since 1688, but only as an informal arrangement. Twinnings was a family-owned company that became a corporation. Lloyd’s was an informal assembly that became a corporation.

    Per Wiki:

    Historian Eric Williams notes: “Lloyd’s, like other insurance companies, insured slaves and slave ships, and was vitally interested in legal decisions as to what constituted ‘natural death’ and ‘perils of the sea’.”[5] Lloyd’s obtained a monopoly on maritime insurance related to the slave trade and maintained it until the early 19th century.

    Obviously, it must be shut down, and all the assets given to those who suffered. – AOC

    None of these have any power to tax etc.

    Companies cannot replace governments without becoming governments. 

    • #32
  3. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas Pratt
    @DouglasPratt

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    Most corps. just die off. The longest running companies are all family owned.

    As far as I know, the oldest continually-run company is the world is Twinnings, the tea company. It started in 1706. Lloyd’s has been around since 1688, but only as an informal arrangement. Twinnings was a family-owned company that became a corporation. Lloyd’s was an informal assembly that became a corporation.

    Beretta has an invoice for an order of arquebus barrels dated the week before Columbus sailed. A case could be made that they are the oldest family owned business.

    • #33
  4. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Good post.

    Aaron Miller:

    Like zombie fiction, does it host real problems (ex: survival amid anarchy, such as currently witnessed in Venezuela) within an unbelievable setting? Or should we indeed worry that historical examples of corporate espionage, company towns, and the like are precursors to much more frightening developments in corporate corruption?

    Either way, preserving the freedom of all humans to make their own dang economic choices is the way out, isn’t it?

    • #34
  5. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    Most corps. just die off. The longest running companies are all family owned.

    As far as I know, the oldest continually-run company is the world is Twinnings, the tea company. It started in 1706. Lloyd’s has been around since 1688, but only as an informal arrangement. Twinnings was a family-owned company that became a corporation. Lloyd’s was an informal assembly that became a corporation.

    Beretta has an invoice for an order of arquebus barrels dated the week before Columbus sailed. A case could be made that they are the oldest family owned business.

    Beretta was the company that came to my mind, as well.  Although according to the Beretta web site, the old invoice for barrels dates to 1526.

    Edit: forgot to put in the link.

    • #35
  6. Misthiocracy secretly Member
    Misthiocracy secretly
    @Misthiocracy

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    Most corps. just die off. The longest running companies are all family owned.

    As far as I know, the oldest continually-run company is the world is Twinnings, the tea company. It started in 1706. Lloyd’s has been around since 1688, but only as an informal arrangement. Twinnings was a family-owned company that became a corporation. Lloyd’s was an informal assembly that became a corporation.

    Beretta has an invoice for an order of arquebus barrels dated the week before Columbus sailed. A case could be made that they are the oldest family owned business.

    You’re way off.  There are dozens of companies older than that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies

    The five oldest companies in the world are all Japanese.  The oldest is 株式会社金剛組 (Kongō Gumi Share Company), a construction company founded in 578 A.D.

    One reason that Japan has so many ancient family companies is thanks to the increased value that Japanese culture places on adoption compared to other cultures.  If the company leader’s biological offspring aren’t up to the task then it’s assumed that he will adopt someone to be his heir.

    The ancient Romans operated in sorta/kinda a similar way (however, I’m not sure how often they would adopt if there was a biological son available). Only about 12 (out of 92) of the Western Roman emperors were succeeded by their biological sons or grandsons; while about 15 were succeeded by their adopted sons, grandsons, or sons-in-law.  Arguably, the adoptees tended to do a better job than the “natural” heirs.

    • #36
  7. Misthiocracy secretly Member
    Misthiocracy secretly
    @Misthiocracy

    Perhaps the most famous example of a territory that is/was governed (mostly) privately is the unincorporated town of Paradise, whose Advisory Board was originally made up of five Las Vegas casino managers (but is now appointed by the Clark County Commission).  While law enforcement is officially provided by the Clark County Sheriff, arguably back in the day it was really provided by mafia goons.

    • #37
  8. Misthiocracy secretly Member
    Misthiocracy secretly
    @Misthiocracy

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    Most corps. just die off. The longest running companies are all family owned.

    As far as I know, the oldest continually-run company is the world is Twinnings, the tea company. It started in 1706. Lloyd’s has been around since 1688, but only as an informal arrangement. Twinnings was a family-owned company that became a corporation. Lloyd’s was an informal assembly that became a corporation.

    Lloyd’s is still not a single corporation.  It’s an insurance market, where many different insurance underwriters do business.  Up until 1994, none of these insurance underwriters enjoyed limited liability the way a corporation does.  If you owned shares in a Lloyd’s underwriter, and that underwriter had to make a large payout, you’d be personally on the hook for your share of the payout.  After 1994 Lloyd’s started accepting limited liability corporations as underwriters, so today it’s vitally important for investors to know if they’re buying shares in one of the Lloyds LLCs or one of the earlier non-limited Lloyd’s members that still make up about 2% of Lloyd’s members.

    • #38
  9. Misthiocracy secretly Member
    Misthiocracy secretly
    @Misthiocracy

    The other famous example of territory that is governed (mostly) privately is the Reedy Creek Improvement Area, which is the municipal authority for Walt Disney World.

    • #39
  10. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas Pratt
    @DouglasPratt

    Misthiocracy secretly (View Comment):

    Perhaps the most famous example of a territory that is/was governed (mostly) privately is the unincorporated town of Paradise, whose Advisory Board was originally made up of five Las Vegas casino managers (but is now appointed by the Clark County Commission). While law enforcement is officially provided by the Clark County Sheriff, arguably back in the day it was really provided by mafia goons.

    Vegas is…interesting. Probably the most successful development in it was the property Howard Hughes bought to build a huge aircraft factory on, that got turned into residences after he died.

     

    • #40
  11. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Misthiocracy secretly (View Comment):

    The other famous example of territory that is governed (mostly) privately is the Reedy Creek Improvement Area, which is the municipal authority for Walt Disney World.

    Yet is still subject to the laws of America. Disney cannot murder people on its land. 

    • #41
  12. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy secretly (View Comment):

    The other famous example of territory that is governed (mostly) privately is the Reedy Creek Improvement Area, which is the municipal authority for Walt Disney World.

    Yet is still subject to the laws of America. Disney cannot murder people on its land.

    Only by animatronics or alligators.

    • #42
  13. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    I think this is all based on old realities, old assumptions. The present reality is that our federal government spent 3.7 trillion dollars in 2017. The market capitalization of Alphabet (Google) is under $900 billion, and Amazon is about the same.

    That is, if they were able to actually liquidate their entire stock issue, they could not, together, pay of just 2017. The corporations have been dwarfed by the federal government. They must buy access to limit and try to steer agencies away from the worst version of regulations. This money is not legal bribery, it is extortion payments. Peter Schweizer offered this argument in Extortion: How Politicians Extract Your Money, Buy Votes, And Line Their Own Pockets.

    • #43
  14. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    The best fiction I can think of along these lines is Max Headroom.

    Rollerball. 1975. Except it’s too prescient to be considered pure fiction.

    Rollerball’s action takes place after the world’s nations have gone “bankrupt,” and after the destructive “Corporate Wars” have come and gone.

    Now, corporations “take care of everyone,” and the violent, team sport of Rollerball has been created by big business “to demonstrate the futility of individual effort.” The goal of the corporations is to be essential to every individual’s life, and for “the few” to make important decisions on “a global basis.”

    Quite possibly the most underrated film of the 20th Century. Watch it.

    Excellent sci fi book along the lines of mega corporations being the New World Government: Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson.

    • #44
  15. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Hank Rhody, Meddling Cowpoke (View Comment):

    ExcitableBoy (View Comment):
    We just wouldn’t have to deal with taxes.

    Optimist.

    Instead of taxes, we would be required to buy chocolate-covered cotton. 

    • #45
  16. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    dnewlander (View Comment):

    Matt Balzer, Imperialist Claw (View Comment):

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):
    The East India Trading Company endured for generations.

    The original megacorp.

    They had an army.

    I hope no one told them about that little tea incident in Boston. 

    • #46
  17. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Hank Rhody, Meddling Cowpoke (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Hank Rhody, Meddling Cowpoke (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    I thought this was going to be about Facebook taking over the government’s role as Big Brother.

    Spying? The government don’t mind that, long as they get to wet their whistle. Private security forces complete with blue thumbs up armbands? Odds are they’ll have words about that.

    I was thinking more of their role as the nation’s censor and good-behavior enforcer.

    Why should the government worry about us oppressing each other? It saves them trouble.

    Some others are more equal than other others.

    • #47
  18. Misthiocracy secretly Member
    Misthiocracy secretly
    @Misthiocracy

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    I think this is all based on old realities, old assumptions. The present reality is that our federal government spent 3.7 trillion dollars in 2017. The market capitalization of Alphabet (Google) is under $900 billion, and Amazon is about the same.

    That is, if they were able to actually liquidate their entire stock issue, they could not, together, pay of just 2017. The corporations have been dwarfed by the federal government. They must buy access to limit and try to steer agencies away from the worst version of regulations. This money is not legal bribery, it is extortion payments. Peter Schweizer offered this argument in Extortion: How Politicians Extract Your Money, Buy Votes, And Line Their Own Pockets.

    In virtually every fictional cyberpunk history, megacorporations are able to assume Corporate Sovereignty because some large (and usually implausible) historical event has resulted in the economic collapse of the federal government.  It’s usually something like World War III, or the replacement of US economic dominance by Japan somehow, or in the case of the Shadowrun mythos the re-emergence of honest-to-goodness magic on Earth!

    My point being, even among fabulists, something incredibly massive and implausible has to happen before corporations obtain sovereignty.  It’s not simply the natural progression of economic development.

    • #48
  19. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    Misthiocracy secretly (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    I think this is all based on old realities, old assumptions. The present reality is that our federal government spent 3.7 trillion dollars in 2017. The market capitalization of Alphabet (Google) is under $900 billion, and Amazon is about the same.

    That is, if they were able to actually liquidate their entire stock issue, they could not, together, pay of just 2017. The corporations have been dwarfed by the federal government. They must buy access to limit and try to steer agencies away from the worst version of regulations. This money is not legal bribery, it is extortion payments. Peter Schweizer offered this argument in Extortion: How Politicians Extract Your Money, Buy Votes, And Line Their Own Pockets.

    In virtually every fictional cyberpunk history, megacorporations are able to assume Corporate Sovereignty because some large (and usually implausible) historical event has resulted in the economic collapse of the federal government. It’s usually something like World War III, or the replacement of US economic dominance by Japan somehow, or in the case of the Shadowrun mythos the re-emergence of honest-to-goodness magic on Earth!

    My point being, even among fabulists, something incredibly massive and implausible has to happen before corporations obtain sovereignty. It’s not simply the natural progression of economic development.

    I am sorry but I still see some corporations as having obtained sovereignty. Until there are actual Anti Trust measures that swoop down on the likes of Amazon, which basically bought our US Post Office back in 2007, I will remain convinced that there is way too many sovereign abilities held firmly by  the most elite of corporations.

    Don’t forget, Bezos also bought up the Washington Post, and has been shielding Democrats from any true investigative reporting ever since. (Why would he ever bite the hand that fed him?) Also don;’t forget how friendly the CIA is to Bezos – some 600 million bucks ended up in his coffers thru a deal with them.

    I wouldn’t mind seeing some hard hitting Price Fixing lawsuits brought forth against such entities as cable and internet providers either.

    • #49
  20. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):
    I wouldn’t mind seeing some hard hitting Price Fixing lawsuits brought forth against such entities as cable and internet providers either.

    I’d be afraid that would lead to price fixing by the government, or by the government in collaboration with the internet providers. You’d probably end up with some cost-plus deal that would make them like the electric utilities, which would make them fat, rich, and lazy. 

    • #50
  21. LibertyDefender Member
    LibertyDefender
    @LibertyDefender

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):
    I wouldn’t mind seeing some hard hitting Price Fixing lawsuits brought forth against such entities as cable and internet providers either.

    The price fixing is only possible due to government.  I’ve been pointing this out for decades: there is no legitimate economic basis for granting exclusive monopoly franchises to cable and/or internet service providers.  Unlike electric, gas, and water utility services, there is no large physical plant investment required to provide cable and internet services.  In the case of cable, you need some satellite dishes and amplifiers.  In the case of internet, a bank of servers.  We should have competition in cable and internet services as robust as the competition for long distance services was in the 90s.

    Prohibit local cable monopolies and the whole nonsense about “net neutrality” goes away too.

    • #51
  22. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy secretly (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    I think this is all based on old realities, old assumptions. The present reality is that our federal government spent 3.7 trillion dollars in 2017. The market capitalization of Alphabet (Google) is under $900 billion, and Amazon is about the same.

    That is, if they were able to actually liquidate their entire stock issue, they could not, together, pay of just 2017. The corporations have been dwarfed by the federal government. They must buy access to limit and try to steer agencies away from the worst version of regulations. This money is not legal bribery, it is extortion payments. Peter Schweizer offered this argument in Extortion: How Politicians Extract Your Money, Buy Votes, And Line Their Own Pockets.

    In virtually every fictional cyberpunk history, megacorporations are able to assume Corporate Sovereignty because some large (and usually implausible) historical event has resulted in the economic collapse of the federal government. It’s usually something like World War III, or the replacement of US economic dominance by Japan somehow, or in the case of the Shadowrun mythos the re-emergence of honest-to-goodness magic on Earth!

    My point being, even among fabulists, something incredibly massive and implausible has to happen before corporations obtain sovereignty. It’s not simply the natural progression of economic development.

    I am sorry but I still see some corporations as having obtained sovereignty. Until there are actual Anti Trust measures that swoop down on the likes of Amazon, which basically bought our US Post Office back in 2007, I will remain convinced that there is way too many sovereign abilities held firmly by the most elite of corporations.

    Don’t forget, Bezos also bought up the Washington Post, and has been shielding Democrats from any true investigative reporting ever since. (Why would he ever bite the hand that fed him?) Also don;’t forget how friendly the CIA is to Bezos – some 600 million bucks ended up in his coffers thru a deal with them.

    I wouldn’t mind seeing some hard hitting Price Fixing lawsuits brought forth against such entities as cable and internet providers either.

    In the alternative, consider that Alphabet (Google) and the big social media corporations are aligned with the deep state, with Big Education, with the Democrats and the corporatist wing of the Republican party. This may be why they are not already under serious legal sanctions, not for “price fixing” but for behaving as publishers while failing to comply with copyright and libel laws. They were given the legal safe harbor of choosing to be neutral forums, in which case they would not face liability.

    • #52
  23. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):
    I am sorry but I still see some corporations as having obtained sovereignty. Until there are actual Anti Trust measures that swoop down on the likes of Amazon, which basically bought our US Post Office back in 2007, I will remain convinced that there is way too many sovereign abilities held firmly by the most elite of corporations. [….]

    I think what you’re getting at is that there are dangerous degrees of influence and autonomy before a point of total domination. Even if a corporation is not completely free of legal oversight or consumer resistance, one can exercise extraordinary power over both politicians and consumers.

    • #53
  24. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    Am I alone in wishing the government were run by Amazon?  Maybe we wouldn’t be $21 trillion in debt.

    • #54
  25. dnewlander Inactive
    dnewlander
    @dnewlander

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    Am I alone in wishing the government were run by Amazon? Maybe we wouldn’t be $21 trillion in debt.

    Better them than Netflix. They are burning money.

    • #55
  26. CarolJoy, Above Top Secret Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret
    @CarolJoy

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Above Top Secret (View Comment):
    I wouldn’t mind seeing some hard hitting Price Fixing lawsuits brought forth against such entities as cable and internet providers either.

    The price fixing is only possible due to government. I’ve been pointing this out for decades: there is no legitimate economic basis for granting exclusive monopoly franchises to cable and/or internet service providers. Unlike electric, gas, and water utility services, there is no large physical plant investment required to provide cable and internet services. In the case of cable, you need some satellite dishes and amplifiers. In the case of internet, a bank of servers. We should have competition in cable and internet services as robust as the competition for long distance services was in the 90s.

    Prohibit local cable monopolies and the whole nonsense about “net neutrality” goes away too.

    I had totally forgotten about that entire and  true premise. Thank you.

    • #56
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