How Political Correctness Infects Religious Organizations

 

When I was in Israel just over a year ago, I had one of my most uncomfortable moments related to Judaism. I visited Beit Hatfutsot, the Diaspora Museum, on the Tel Aviv University campus. In one room, they featured small replicas from synagogues all over the world; it was a beautiful display. They also had films of international congregations conducting services from many different cities and towns. One of the films stopped me in my tracks: a group of Jewish women were being led in prayer by a small group of women—wrapped in tallitot and kipot—prayer shawls and skullcaps. As I recall, they were filming a service in the Midwest. Granted, I haven’t been in a Conservative or Reform synagogue in a very long time, but it was still a shock. I stepped away from the film and collected my bearings.

It’s not like I haven’t been exposed to the idea of women wearing tallitot previously. In fact, I had joined a Jewish group in Los Angeles that had a weekly discussion of the Torah. I also attended a silent retreat with them. At the end of the retreat, the women in the group called us all up (Aliyah) and we surrounded ourselves with prayer shawls. It was a unique and moving experience, and I decided to purchase my own prayer shawl.

The first morning I was going to say the prayers at home, I pulled out my new tallit and prayed. I was uneasy and uncomfortable the whole time. I put the tallit back in its bag and never took it out again.

In researching the use of tallitot by women, I was surprised by what I learned. The Torah does not prohibit women from wearing the tallit, but women are not obligated to do so. At the same time, Chabad, an Orthodox community, suggests that women might want to wear the tallit for the wrong reasons:

While altogether the feminist movement is to be commended for the equal rights it has secured for women, and the elevation of the woman’s social, legal and economic status, a certain aspect of this movement’s aims is questionable at best. I refer to the desire to make women masculine, rather than accentuate their feminine qualities. To evaluate a woman based on her ability to “do whatever a man can,” is to dishonor womanhood, and all the unique qualities it brings to the table. A true feminist is someone who believes and is committed to making others understand the equality and importance of a women and the natural feminine role, not someone who believes that women should forsake their femininity in favor of becoming more man-like.

Judaism has also been accused of denigrating women, but the fact is that both men and women are appreciated for their different roles. For example men have stronger bodies, and it is said that women have stronger souls :

Women are more soulful than men. While men may excel in physical prowess, women are far ahead when it comes to spiritual strength. Women are more sensitive to matters of the soul, more receptive to ideas of faith, more drawn to the divine than men. The feminine soul has an openness to the abstract and a grasp of the intangible that a male soul can only yearn for. This is why G‑d told Abraham, the first Jewish man, ‘Whatever Sarah your wife tells you, listen to voice.’ She was the greater prophet, her soul more intuitive than his.

Thus, Judaism is wrestling with its own identity in the different communities: what is required, what is appropriate, which practices honor G-d.

So I have a number of questions that I am posing in this post:

  1. Has today’s political correctness taken your church/organization in a negative or unproductive direction in general, or when it comes to men and women?
  2. Are there conflicts within the organization that compromise traditional values or beliefs?
  3. Are there practices that make you uncomfortable?
  4. Do you think women intuitively have the ability to make a stronger connection to G-d than men?

I always like to remind people that I am still exploring my Jewish roots, trying to understand the Torah, the origin of Jewish ideas and practices, and what I feel I am able to include in my own practice.

I’d love to learn more about your own struggles with your home church or the larger organization, or the ways your organization has resisted, or been co-opted by, the pressures of political correctness.

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  1. Ansonia Member
    Ansonia
    @Ansonia

    Susan Quinn,

    It’s off the subject but I just want to tell you this: A few hours before I saw this post, I had gotten up and was vegetating on the couch thinking: “Lord, I wish something would get me enough past my own laziness that I could read one of the books of the Bible I haven’t read, from start to finish, as Rosaria Butterfield recommends.” (Years ago, I resolved I would at least read all of the New and the Old Testament so that I know more for my grandchildren than I knew for my children. I’ve done very little since making myself that promise.) Since reading this post, I’ve read all of 1 Kings in the Catholic edition and a Jewish edition, all of 2nd Kings in the Catholic edition.

     Is that weird or what ?

    • #151
  2. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Ansonia (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn,

    It’s off the subject but I just want to tell you this: A few hours before I saw this post, I had gotten up and was vegetating on the couch thinking: “Lord, I wish something would get me enough past my own laziness that I could read one of the books of the Bible I haven’t read, from start to finish, as Rosaria Butterfield recommends.” (Years ago, I resolved I would at least read all of the New and the Old Testament so that I know more for my grandchildren than I knew for my children. I’ve done very little since making myself that promise.) Since reading this post, I’ve read all of 1 Kings in the Catholic edition and a Jewish edition, all of 2nd Kings in the Catholic edition.

    Is that weird or what ?

    That’s wonderful! We never know when and how we might be inspired. Good for you! The Psalms are beautiful, too.

    • #152
  3. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    I wanted to say a little more about my decision to pull back here. @heavywater, I don’t have a lot of patience with people who I think are asking questions, not out of genuine curiosity, but to poke at people and consciously or not, denigrate religion. I especially have little patience when I believe (and it is my belief) that their understanding is superficial, and instead of taking the route of serious study (not just reading the Bible itself) with reputable scholars, they give their own impressions and interpretations of particular issues and work to see how people react. The questions you often ask require much more understanding of the texts for any person to give you an answer that doesn’t require a long essay. And I say that, not as a scholar but as a nascent Jew. In other words, my questions to my religious friends do not come necessarily from my judgment of a belief or practice, but from a serious desire to know more because we are all people of faith.

    Your faith, I believe is not very strong, because I think you’d rather pick questions that provoke rather than those that deepen your understanding. You may think you are a serious explorer, but your exploration seems to come more from random curiosity than a desire to truly understand a faith, any faith. That’s why I’m reluctant to engage with you; I doubt your sincerity to test your own beliefs and develop an understanding of what it means to be a person of faith, rather than dabbling. I truly don’t mean to insult you (although I may be too late to express that), but I don’t want to invest my time in an extended discussion when I don’t think you are on a heartfelt journey.

    To me, a heartfelt journey includes reading more than the Torah. It includes a weekly discussion of the reading of the week with my Torah study partner. It means pushing myself to look deeply into the reading to develop questions that will enhance my understanding. I read the commentaries of Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, a man who takes a sincere and meaningful path to understanding Torah and bringing the rest of us closer to it.

    I’m sure there are reputable scholars or teachers who could help you dive in meaningfully, if you really want to explore the role that faith plays in your life. I’m not the person to do that.

    I apologize if my comments were excessively provocative.

    Since leaving the Presbyterian Church here in the Northeastern part of the Indianapolis metro area back in 2017, I decided to study the Bible.  I began this study by doing Google searches, to see if my pastor’s husband was correct when he implied that one can not be a good Christian if one does not support the Democrat party’s agenda.

    • #153
  4. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    I didn’t start out as a committed Christian.  But I was interested in the issue because most Christians in the United States seem to vote Republican.  Whenever I have volunteered for Republican candidates for Congress, I always have rubbed elbows with Christians.

    I ended up becoming fascinated with the bible and began purchasing college textbooks on the Bible, in addition to books written for the public on the Bible.  I’ve been at this a few years.  

    In any case, I won’t comment further on this thread.  If I do decide to look into this issue further, it will be on a separate thread.  

    I apologize if my comments ended up threadjacking this conversation.  

    • #154
  5. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I didn’t start out as a committed Christian. But I was interested in the issue because most Christians in the United States seem to vote Republican. Whenever I have volunteered for Republican candidates for Congress, I always have rubbed elbows with Christians.

    I ended up becoming fascinated with the bible and began purchasing college textbooks on the Bible, in addition to books written for the public on the Bible. I’ve been at this a few years.

    In any case, I won’t comment further on this thread. If I do decide to look into this issue further, it will be on a separate thread.

    I apologize if my comments ended up threadjacking this conversation.

    It’s okay, @heavywater. The one thing about your studies is that you are doing it alone. I don’t want to discourage you from learning, but doing it with someone or others who are open to dialogue and diving deeply would be great for you.

    • #155
  6. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I didn’t start out as a committed Christian. But I was interested in the issue because most Christians in the United States seem to vote Republican. Whenever I have volunteered for Republican candidates for Congress, I always have rubbed elbows with Christians.

    I ended up becoming fascinated with the bible and began purchasing college textbooks on the Bible, in addition to books written for the public on the Bible. I’ve been at this a few years.

    In any case, I won’t comment further on this thread. If I do decide to look into this issue further, it will be on a separate thread.

    I apologize if my comments ended up threadjacking this conversation.

    It’s okay, @heavywater. The one thing about your studies is that you are doing it alone. I don’t want to discourage you from learning, but doing it with someone or others who are open to dialogue and diving deeply would be great for you.

    Actually, I am not doing it alone.

    I am a member of an online group of Bible students lead by a well-known New Testament College Professor.

    Each day we receive a new lecture to listen to or read.  We ask each other questions and we ask questions of the Professor.  We also are treated to guest lectures by other New Testament scholars.

    Recently we enjoyed a lecture by a professor who recently wrote a book on John the Baptist.

    I’ve been a member of this group for about 18 months.

    • #156
  7. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Actually, I am not doing it alone.

    I am a member of an online group of Bible students lead by a well-known New Testament College Professor.

    Each day we receive a new lecture to listen to or read. We ask each other questions and we ask questions of the Professor. We also are treated to guest lecture by other New Testament scholars.

    Recently we enjoyed a lecture by a professor who recently wrote a book on John the Baptist.

    I’ve been a member of this group for about 18 months.

    Excellent! For those burning questions you have, I hope there are opportunities for you to ask them and get different viewpoints. I wish you much joy and reward for meeting with this group.

    • #157
  8. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Ansonia (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn,

    It’s off the subject but I just want to tell you this: A few hours before I saw this post, I had gotten up and was vegetating on the couch thinking: “Lord, I wish something would get me enough past my own laziness that I could read one of the books of the Bible I haven’t read, from start to finish, as Rosaria Butterfield recommends.” (Years ago, I resolved I would at least read all of the New and the Old Testament so that I know more for my grandchildren than I knew for my children. I’ve done very little since making myself that promise.) Since reading this post, I’ve read all of 1 Kings in the Catholic edition and a Jewish edition, all of 2nd Kings in the Catholic edition.

    Is that weird or what ?

    That’s wonderful! We never know when and how we might be inspired. Good for you! The Psalms are beautiful, too.

    Yes.

    • #158
  9. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I didn’t start out as a committed Christian. But I was interested in the issue because most Christians in the United States seem to vote Republican. Whenever I have volunteered for Republican candidates for Congress, I always have rubbed elbows with Christians.

    I ended up becoming fascinated with the bible and began purchasing college textbooks on the Bible, in addition to books written for the public on the Bible. I’ve been at this a few years.

    In any case, I won’t comment further on this thread. If I do decide to look into this issue further, it will be on a separate thread.

    I apologize if my comments ended up threadjacking this conversation.

    It’s okay, @heavywater. The one thing about your studies is that you are doing it alone. I don’t want to discourage you from learning, but doing it with someone or others who are open to dialogue and diving deeply would be great for you.

    Actually, I am not doing it alone.

    I am a member of an online group of Bible students lead by a well-known New Testament College Professor.

    Each day we receive a new lecture to listen to or read. We ask each other questions and we ask questions of the Professor. We also are treated to guest lectures by other New Testament scholars.

    Recently we enjoyed a lecture by a professor who recently wrote a book on John the Baptist.

    I’ve been a member of this group for about 18 months.

    There’s also Ricochet.

    Who’s your NT prof?

    • #159
  10. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    But in the final analysis, mainstream Christianity says that you don’t get into heaven based on how diligently you keep God’s commandments. It’s based on accepting Christ’s atonement.

    It’s based on faith, which in the biblical model includes obedience.

    Obedience to . . . . . . .

    To the commands of G-d and to Christ.

    I just re-read the book of Galatians.

    Paul does not explicitly say which of God’s commandments are no longer in force and which are still in force.

    Try re-reading chapter 5; it has a major clue.

    Jesus did say that divorce can only occur as a result of adultery. Jesus didn’t say that a woman can divorce her husband because her husband is beating her up.

    But we can use common sense, right? Or that a case of political correctness?

    We go with what we think Jesus said. Common sense is a great reason to reconsider whether we understood what he said properly, but not to disobey what we said. We can also consider alternative strategies, like separation without divorce, or like asking whether Jesus’ words are a reference to marriage as a covenant and whether violence counts as covenant unfaithfulness.

    But we’d better not disobey the Son of G-d.

    My point is that I think political correctness is based on the view, held by many (though not all) that many versus of the Bible, mostly in the Old Testament (but perhaps some in the New Testament) really don’t make any sense.

    Sure. But who has that view and actually believes that the Bible is the Word of G-d?

    Not understanding the verses we believe make perfect sense–that is another matter.

    • #160
  11. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I didn’t start out as a committed Christian. But I was interested in the issue because most Christians in the United States seem to vote Republican. Whenever I have volunteered for Republican candidates for Congress, I always have rubbed elbows with Christians.

    I ended up becoming fascinated with the bible and began purchasing college textbooks on the Bible, in addition to books written for the public on the Bible. I’ve been at this a few years.

    In any case, I won’t comment further on this thread. If I do decide to look into this issue further, it will be on a separate thread.

    I apologize if my comments ended up threadjacking this conversation.

    It’s okay, @heavywater. The one thing about your studies is that you are doing it alone. I don’t want to discourage you from learning, but doing it with someone or others who are open to dialogue and diving deeply would be great for you.

    Actually, I am not doing it alone.

    I am a member of an online group of Bible students lead by a well-known New Testament College Professor.

    Each day we receive a new lecture to listen to or read. We ask each other questions and we ask questions of the Professor. We also are treated to guest lectures by other New Testament scholars.

    Recently we enjoyed a lecture by a professor who recently wrote a book on John the Baptist.

    I’ve been a member of this group for about 18 months.

    There’s also Ricochet.

    Who’s your NT prof?

    I won’t divulge the name.  But here are some clues.  He graduated from Wheaton College.  Then he graduated from Moody Bible College.  Then he graduated from Princeton Theological Seminary.  

    • #161
  12. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I didn’t start out as a committed Christian. But I was interested in the issue because most Christians in the United States seem to vote Republican. Whenever I have volunteered for Republican candidates for Congress, I always have rubbed elbows with Christians.

    I ended up becoming fascinated with the bible and began purchasing college textbooks on the Bible, in addition to books written for the public on the Bible. I’ve been at this a few years.

    In any case, I won’t comment further on this thread. If I do decide to look into this issue further, it will be on a separate thread.

    I apologize if my comments ended up threadjacking this conversation.

    It’s okay, @heavywater. The one thing about your studies is that you are doing it alone. I don’t want to discourage you from learning, but doing it with someone or others who are open to dialogue and diving deeply would be great for you.

    Actually, I am not doing it alone.

    I am a member of an online group of Bible students lead by a well-known New Testament College Professor.

    Each day we receive a new lecture to listen to or read. We ask each other questions and we ask questions of the Professor. We also are treated to guest lectures by other New Testament scholars.

    Recently we enjoyed a lecture by a professor who recently wrote a book on John the Baptist.

    I’ve been a member of this group for about 18 months.

    There’s also Ricochet.

    Who’s your NT prof?

    I won’t divulge the name. But here are some clues. He graduated from Wheaton College. Then he graduated from Moody Bible College. Then he graduated from Princeton Theological Seminary.

    I’ve found him, based on those clues.  Considering his ouvre and his own abandonment of any faith, it may be possible that he’s got his own agenda going.  Food for thought anyway.

    • #162
  13. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Who’s your NT prof?

    I won’t divulge the name. But here are some clues. He graduated from Wheaton College. Then he graduated from Moody Bible College. Then he graduated from Princeton Theological Seminary.

    I’ve found him, based on those clues. Considering his ouvre and his own abandonment of any faith, it may be possible that he’s got his own agenda going.

    Another victim of the mentality that orthodox faith couldn’t possibly coexist with academic study?

    • #163
  14. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I didn’t start out as a committed Christian. But I was interested in the issue because most Christians in the United States seem to vote Republican. Whenever I have volunteered for Republican candidates for Congress, I always have rubbed elbows with Christians.

    I ended up becoming fascinated with the bible and began purchasing college textbooks on the Bible, in addition to books written for the public on the Bible. I’ve been at this a few years.

    In any case, I won’t comment further on this thread. If I do decide to look into this issue further, it will be on a separate thread.

    I apologize if my comments ended up threadjacking this conversation.

    It’s okay, @heavywater. The one thing about your studies is that you are doing it alone. I don’t want to discourage you from learning, but doing it with someone or others who are open to dialogue and diving deeply would be great for you.

    Actually, I am not doing it alone.

    I am a member of an online group of Bible students lead by a well-known New Testament College Professor.

    Each day we receive a new lecture to listen to or read. We ask each other questions and we ask questions of the Professor. We also are treated to guest lectures by other New Testament scholars.

    Recently we enjoyed a lecture by a professor who recently wrote a book on John the Baptist.

    I’ve been a member of this group for about 18 months.

    There’s also Ricochet.

    Who’s your NT prof?

    I won’t divulge the name. But here are some clues. He graduated from Wheaton College. Then he graduated from Moody Bible College. Then he graduated from Princeton Theological Seminary.

    I’ve found him, based on those clues. Considering his ouvre and his own abandonment of any faith, it may be possible that he’s got his own agenda going. Food for thought anyway.

    Hey, everybody’s got their own agenda.  

    I prefer to study the Bible using the Historical-Critical method rather than using a devotional method. 

    We study the Bible without assuming that is the inspired word of God and is inerrant.

    • #164
  15. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Here is another quote from the scriptures that, from what I can tell, most Jews and Christians no longer apply to their lives.

    Deuteronomy 23:2

    Those born of an illicit union shall not be admitted to the assembly of the Lord. Even to the tenth generation, none of their descendants shall be admitted to the assembly of the Lord.

    These days we don’t believe in treating people in such a cruel way.

    It seems that “Biblical values” aren’t really values that most of us want to uphold.

    That’s why religious institutions are vulnerable to political correctness.  There is a desire for moral progress.

    • #165
  16. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I won’t divulge the name. But here are some clues. He graduated from Wheaton College. Then he graduated from Moody Bible College. Then he graduated from Princeton Theological Seminary.

    I’ve found him, based on those clues. Considering his ouvre and his own abandonment of any faith, it may be possible that he’s got his own agenda going. Food for thought anyway.

    Hey, everybody’s got their own agenda.

    I prefer to study the Bible using the Historical-Critical method rather than using a devotional method.

    We study the Bible without assuming that is the inspired word of God and is inerrant.

    Emphasis on “Critical,” right?  Wikipedia’s “The primary goal of historical criticism is to discover the text’s primitive or original meaning in its original historical context and its literal sense or sensus literalis historicus” is precisely what a good many inerrantists have always done.

    Even allegorists like the real Augustine thought the original historical sense was very important.

    My undergrad theology teacher, William E. Bell, didn’t even assume the Bible was inerrant.  Knowledge has a structure, he well knew.  He looked at the evidence, and I couldn’t find any flaws in his argument for the authority of the Bible.

    (If you wanna get technical, he left out some points on the structure of knowledge.  I’m more thorough in my forthcoming article in Themelios on the subject.  I seem to have become the foremost expert on the subject.  Not too surprising: Philosophers who understand the structure of knowledge and have also studied the arguments for inerrancy and care about both are pretty rare.)

    • #166
  17. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I won’t divulge the name. But here are some clues. He graduated from Wheaton College. Then he graduated from Moody Bible College. Then he graduated from Princeton Theological Seminary.

    I’ve found him, based on those clues. Considering his ouvre and his own abandonment of any faith, it may be possible that he’s got his own agenda going. Food for thought anyway.

    Hey, everybody’s got their own agenda.

    I prefer to study the Bible using the Historical-Critical method rather than using a devotional method.

    We study the Bible without assuming that is the inspired word of God and is inerrant.

    Emphasis on “Critical,” right? Wikipedia’s “The primary goal of historical criticism is to discover the text’s primitive or original meaning in its original historical context and its literal sense or sensus literalis historicus” is precisely what a good many inerrantists have always done.

    Not really.

    • #167
  18. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Here is another quote from the scriptures that, from what I can tell, most Jews and Christians no longer apply to their lives.

    Deuteronomy 23:2

    Those born of an illicit union shall not be admitted to the assembly of the Lord. Even to the tenth generation, none of their descendants shall be admitted to the assembly of the Lord.

    These days we don’t believe in treating people in such a cruel way.

    It seems that “Biblical values” aren’t really values that most of us want to uphold.

    That’s why religious institutions are vulnerable to political correctness. There is a desire for moral progress.

    Christians aren’t supposed to apply it if it’s a ritual law; see @Manny et al back on page 4.

    I don’t know how Jews who believe the Tanakh would get around it, however.  (Maybe they’re sinning in not applying it; maybe some laws are only to be applied when there’s a functioning tabernacle or temple in Palestine.  Maybe the precise meaning of “assembly” in the original context makes a difference.  I don’t know.)

    • #168
  19. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I won’t divulge the name. But here are some clues. He graduated from Wheaton College. Then he graduated from Moody Bible College. Then he graduated from Princeton Theological Seminary.

    I’ve found him, based on those clues. Considering his ouvre and his own abandonment of any faith, it may be possible that he’s got his own agenda going. Food for thought anyway.

    Hey, everybody’s got their own agenda.

    I prefer to study the Bible using the Historical-Critical method rather than using a devotional method.

    We study the Bible without assuming that is the inspired word of God and is inerrant.

    Emphasis on “Critical,” right? Wikipedia’s “The primary goal of historical criticism is to discover the text’s primitive or original meaning in its original historical context and its literal sense or sensus literalis historicus” is precisely what a good many inerrantists have always done.

    Not really.

    You mean it’s not really what a good many inerrantists have done?

    Finding the original meaning in context is precisely the requirement of the doctrine of inerrancy.  (It can be misleading to refer to the original meaning as “literal,” however.)

    My observation is also based on what I’ve personally seen, done, and studied.  If you know so much about that, maybe you can remind me what I ate for lunch yesterday.

    • #169
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