Hey everybody! Let’s save the planet!

 

I’m a compulsive recycler.

When I was a Boy Scout, I always collected the most newspapers in the annual fundraising drive. My mom helped establish the first recycling center in my hometown. I spent many of my weekends in high school sorting used paper, glass and metal. When driving, she would pull over and have one of us pick up any aluminum cans or returnable bottles she saw lying beside the road. I always carried a sack with me to carry any recyclable material I found.

I still recycle to this day. Every bit of aluminum I use goes into a trash bag in the garage to be turned in for cash every month or so. I still carry sacks with me when I walk the dogs or take a stroll with my wife. I have a box in my car that holds aluminum I find in parking lots, and I even pull cans out of the trash.

“That’s Gross!,” I hear you say. In my teens, I hauled truckloads of manure for my parents’ garden. I’ve been a lifeguard, bartender, and have served in the military, so I’ve cleaned out steamy swimming pool bathrooms, nauseating bar toilets, and disgusting Army latrines. As a cop, I’ve been spit on, vomited on, bled on, and had bags of urine thrown at me. I’ve cleaned blood, poop, vomit and urine out of the back of my squad. I’ve spent several hours in the presence of decaying bodies and had to sort through the contents of a reeking dumpster in July looking for evidence. As a nurse, I’ve had my hands, face and uniform splattered with every imaginable body fluid (and some you probably can’t imagine) from every known body orifice (and some you don’t want to know). I’ve also worked in a bookstore. So, no, pulling a valuable piece of metal out of a trash can is not gross.

I abhor waste.

At work, I turn off the lights and TV’s in empty rooms. I got tired of people throwing garbage in the recycling bin, so I put a funny sign on the recycling bin telling them to stop it.

I also married into the right family. My in-laws’ rule about Christmas is that all the gifts exchanged must be handmade or used, nothing bought new.

I was an enthusiastic recycler. I thought that the government taking over the recycling business was a good thing. Yes, it drove our little volunteer, non-profit recycling center out of business, but so much more was being recycled. And that can’t be bad, can it? You are taking stuff that would be just filling up landfills and turning it back into useful items.

In hindsight, I should have realized that it was not quite that simple. Collecting newspapers for the Scouts required me to spend several hours going house to house with my Radio Flyer picking them up, then storing them in the garage, transporting them to the weekly meeting, and sorting, stacking and bundling them. At the recycling center, the material was all brought to us, but we still had to sort, stack and bundle it. In both cases, there was always some material that was spoiled by water, oil or garbage. There was stuff mixed in that was not recyclable. The dumpsters outside the church where my troop met and the recycling center were full the day after a sorting.

I assume the Boy Scouts made money for this because the recycler was receiving a uniform product at a central location without having to bear the labor, transportation and storage costs prior to that. The recycling center was processing more valuable metals in addition to paper (and much less profitable glass), but still needed monetary donations to stay afloat.

An epiphany of sorts came when I read the book Rubbish! by William Rathje and Cullen Murphy. Rathje was the premier archeologist of trash, and the book is not environmental science. Even so, I learned that I had a lot of misconceptions about recycling.

The big one is that it does not matter that plastics don’t biodegrade. Nothing biodegrades in landfills. There is no light or air underground, so the stuff pretty much stays unchanged. Rubbish! has stories of two-thousand-year-old Roman dumps that began decaying only when they were excavated and recognizable fruits and vegetables pulled out of medieval middens.

I found out that household waste is actually less than half of the waste going into dumps. Most of it is industrial and construction waste. Plastics make up only about 10% of the waste stream, much less than food waste and paper.

I’ve also noticed something from simple observation. The environmentalists like to say that plastics remain in the environment for centuries. If so, where are they?

In an arroyo near my mom’s house, there is the frame of a wrecked car. The engine, wheels, body, upholstery, and every other part of the car is gone. I first noticed it in the 70’s and it was still there the last time I looked a couple of years ago. I tend to look down a lot when I’m walking (there may be cans to pick up) and I’ll still occasionally see a pull tab on the ground. Beverage cans have not had pull tabs since the mid 70’s. I also have come across trash heaps while hiking with recognizable cans and bottles from the 50’s and 60’s.

But I never see plastic waste that is more than a couple of years old. Why is that? I think that it breaks down to smaller and smaller pieces until it is indistinguishable from dirt.

So, I have come to the conclusion that most “recycling” is wasteful and counterproductive. Recycling of metals and most paper works and makes a profit. Recycling of glass and plastic actually hurts the environment, since you are generating greenhouse gasses to transport and process the stuff.

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  1. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Rational understanding of what is cost and environmentally effective makes perfect sense. I certainly feel a moral desire to not be a filthy pig to our planet. But some things use more energy to recycle than any good can come from it. Glass is mainly silica, which is sand. Sand is one of the most common entities that form Earth. Recycling it is costly. Finding alternative secondary uses for old glass makes perfect sense…sometimes. I was once invited to join a capital venture using recycled glass to make countertops. It sounded very promising until I went to the plant to observe the process and view the end product. I was shocked to walk through the plant and see silica dust thick in the air from the grinding process. The plant workers weren’t even wearing protective breathing apparatus, nor was I offered one as I roamed through the plant. The final product wasn’t even very pretty. Maybe they have made improvements, but I had to pass on any personal involvement. Just the liability for the health of the plant workers scared the heck out of me. At home we recycle. The amount of acceptable recycled products has increased dramatically, it seems to me. I have often wondered how the tubs of foam containers, aluminum foil, paper of a billion different types, and now even steel cans, get sorted out. Is this all just a con? In the meantime, landfills have emerged as beautiful recreation areas and golf courses. I think there is still much to figure out about our waste.

    • #31
  2. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Fusion Reactors will solve all these problems. Plasma Torch is the ultimate! Break it all down into elements!

     

    • #32
  3. JosePluma Coolidge
    JosePluma
    @JosePluma

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    I know someone who remembered the story about the East Coast garbage barge that couldn’t find a place to unload, and still think we’ve run out of landfill space. Even if we haven’t, the idea of burying things is just . . . morally wrong! Wrong! Everything should be recycled, for the sake of the planet.

    As for “Rubbish” the book, and landfill decomposition, I seem to recall that the book discussed a town powered by methane generated by landfill emissions. This also infuriated my friend, who insisted that such things Did. Not. Happen.

    I recycle everything, but when I set out the cans I remember this entry from wikipedia: “By mass, aluminium makes up about 8% of the Earth’s crust; it is the third most abundant element after oxygen and silicon and the most abundant metal in the crust.”

    So it might be okay if you toss away a can or two.

    The thing about aluminum is that it is very hard (and energy intensive) to convert bauxite to useable metal.  Once it has been “freed,” it requires much less effort to melt down and reuse.  I read somewhere that you are save the equivalent energy of 1/2 a can of gasoline for every can you recycle.

    Iron is about half as common as aluminum but about 1/30th of the value a scrap.  Why is that?  Iron ore is much less energy intensive to convert to useable metal.  Iron is a lot easier to recover from the trash stream-all you need is a magnet.

    • #33
  4. JosePluma Coolidge
    JosePluma
    @JosePluma

    Qoumidan (View Comment):

    JosePluma: I also married into the right family. My in-laws’ rule about Christmas is that all the gifts exchanged must be handmade or used, nothing bought new.

    Blech! Gag! Hurk! I think I would just opt out of giving or receiving, which I suppose would be even better for the environment.

    It just requires you to be more creative.  I make my own aromatic bitters and vodka infusions and my wife knits.  We also go to Goodwill and the Salvation Army to find stuff.  We usually get books in return-believe it or not, they are just as easy to read used.

    • #34
  5. JosePluma Coolidge
    JosePluma
    @JosePluma

    cdor (View Comment):

    Rational understanding of what is cost and environmentally effective makes perfect sense. I certainly feel a moral desire to not be a filthy pig to our planet. But some things use more energy to recycle than any good can come from it. Glass is mainly silica, which is sand. Sand is one of the most common entities that form Earth. Recycling it is costly. Finding alternative secondary uses for old glass makes perfect sense…sometimes. I was once invited to join a capital venture using recycled glass to make countertops. It sounded very promising until I went to the plant to observe the process and view the end product. I was shocked to walk through the plant and see silica dust thick in the air from the grinding process. The plant workers weren’t even wearing protective breathing apparatus, nor was I offered one as I roamed through the plant. The final product wasn’t even very pretty. Maybe they have made improvements, but I had to pass on any personal involvement. Just the liability for the health of the plant workers scared the heck out of me. At home we recycle. The amount of acceptable recycled products has increased dramatically, it seems to me. I have often wondered how the tubs of foam containers, aluminum foil, paper of a billion different types, and now even steel cans, get sorted out. Is this all just a con? In the meantime, landfills have emerged as beautiful recreation areas and golf courses. I think there is still much to figure out about our waste.

    Again, I think we should just dump waste glass into the ocean.  If nothing else, it will make the beaches pretty.

    • #35
  6. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    JosePluma (View Comment):

    cdor (View Comment):

    Rational understanding of what is cost and environmentally effective makes perfect sense. I certainly feel a moral desire to not be a filthy pig to our planet. But some things use more energy to recycle than any good can come from it. Glass is mainly silica, which is sand. Sand is one of the most common entities that form Earth. Recycling it is costly. Finding alternative secondary uses for old glass makes perfect sense…sometimes. I was once invited to join a capital venture using recycled glass to make countertops. It sounded very promising until I went to the plant to observe the process and view the end product. I was shocked to walk through the plant and see silica dust thick in the air from the grinding process. The plant workers weren’t even wearing protective breathing apparatus, nor was I offered one as I roamed through the plant. The final product wasn’t even very pretty. Maybe they have made improvements, but I had to pass on any personal involvement. Just the liability for the health of the plant workers scared the heck out of me. At home we recycle. The amount of acceptable recycled products has increased dramatically, it seems to me. I have often wondered how the tubs of foam containers, aluminum foil, paper of a billion different types, and now even steel cans, get sorted out. Is this all just a con? In the meantime, landfills have emerged as beautiful recreation areas and golf courses. I think there is still much to figure out about our waste.

    Again, I think we should just dump waste glass into the ocean. If nothing else, it will make the beaches pretty.

    • #36
  7. JosePluma Coolidge
    JosePluma
    @JosePluma

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    A very interesting topic, and one that is rapidly becoming a crisis issue. Some of the recycling that you mention, independent paper drives and aluminum can recycling are very good, because of the purity of the stream. The state and city mandated household recycling programs are, like most liberal agenda programs, designed with good intentions and create more issues than they solve.

    In the past, most recycling streams were containerized and sold to China for processing. China has since ceased to accept almost all recycling streams from the US. The issue is the percentage of contamination in the recycled trash. In effect, we were shipping 30%+ trash along with >70% recyclables to China. China is now demanding product streams with less than 1% contaminants. https://fox2now.com/2018/04/20/china-refuses-to-recycle-more-of-the-worlds-trash/

    My wife’s first cousin is manager of Lowell Mass’s recycling programs. Lowell is the second largest city in Massachusetts. NPR recently did an in-depth report on this issue, and if you are interested, Gunther Wellenstein, the cousin, is part of the interview. http://www.wbur.org/news/2018/08/20/cities-cleaner-recycling

    This year, the company that processes their recycling is demanding a 300% increase in fees, as they need to add significant personnel and capital equipment to sort the product. Even with that increase in cost, they are still not able to meet the purity standards, and the recycling is being either stored in warehouses, or simply added to the landfills, as regular refuse. One of the alternate uses of the glass recycling, is they crush it, and use it as the daily cover in the landfill.

    Lowell has also recently added inspectors who look at people’s curbside recycling bins’ contents prior to pickup and give the homeowners reports and grades on how well they are doing to have a zero contamination recycling stream. If a family continues to put contaminants in the recycling bins, they will be fined. Lowell has also added RFID chips to every bin, and a camera on the truck that takes photos of the contents as they are being dumped into the truck. These pics are then used for enforcement of contaminated recycling.

    In the end, a clear look at the true costs of recycling vs simply landfilling all refuse, might reveal that we can not afford the expense and waste of our current mandated single stream recycling. Regardless of how good it makes us feel to pretend we are saving the planet.

    Thanks for the links.  The article about Lowell is a perfect illustration of what recycling has become–virtue signaling and make-work.  Petty bureaucrats scrutinizing your every action and penalizing you for not following picayune regulations.  All of in service of a program that is useless at best and may actually harm the environment at worst.  A great microcosm of government as a whole.

    • #37
  8. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    JosePluma (View Comment):
    One of the alternate uses of the glass recycling, is they crush it, and use it as the daily cover in the landfill.

    This is a great example of why I feel so virtuous when I recycle.

    Pounds and pounds of glass that would have been

    1. collected in a grey receptacle (yuch!)
    2. transported in a grey truck (eww!)
    3. ended up in an ugly landfill (gack!)

    is now

    1. collected in a green-colored receptacle (yay!)
    2. transported in a green-colored recycling trucks (woo-WOO!)
    3. etc., etc., and so forth and so on (as Sue Heck would nervously say at this point, and then change the subject.  Quickly.)

    Creating jobs for Americans, jobs which can’t be stolen from us by the Chinese.  Just one more example of why we need government to create jobs.

    • #38
  9. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    I know someone who remembered the story about the East Coast garbage barge that couldn’t find a place to unload, and still think we’ve run out of landfill space. Even if we haven’t, the idea of burying things is just . . . morally wrong! Wrong! Everything should be recycled, for the sake of the planet.

    As for “Rubbish” the book, and landfill decomposition, I seem to recall that the book discussed a town powered by methane generated by landfill emissions. This also infuriated my friend, who insisted that such things Did. Not. Happen.

    I recycle everything, but when I set out the cans I remember this entry from wikipedia: “By mass, aluminium makes up about 8% of the Earth’s crust; it is the third most abundant element after oxygen and silicon and the most abundant metal in the crust.”

    So it might be okay if you toss away a can or two.

    Users of aluminum want your cans because melting down refined aluminum is much less expensive, less energy intensive, than breaking it out of ore. This is also why aluminum ore smelters are located where the cheapest electricity is available.

    • #39
  10. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    cdor (View Comment):

    […]I was once invited to join a capital venture using recycled glass to make countertops. It sounded very promising until I went to the plant to observe the process and view the end product. I was shocked to walk through the plant and see silica dust thick in the air from the grinding process. The plant workers weren’t even wearing protective breathing apparatus, nor was I offered one as I roamed through the plant. […]

    From the Texas study I linked above:

    • Since glass contains silica rather than crystalline silica, it does not have the health risks associated with natural sand.

    Can someone make sense of this?

     

    • #40
  11. JosePluma Coolidge
    JosePluma
    @JosePluma

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    cdor (View Comment):

    […]I was once invited to join a capital venture using recycled glass to make countertops. It sounded very promising until I went to the plant to observe the process and view the end product. I was shocked to walk through the plant and see silica dust thick in the air from the grinding process. The plant workers weren’t even wearing protective breathing apparatus, nor was I offered one as I roamed through the plant. […]

    From the Texas study I linked above:

    • Since glass contains silica rather than crystalline silica, it does not have the health risks associated with natural sand.

    Can someone make sense of this?

     

    Try this article.

    • #41
  12. JosePluma Coolidge
    JosePluma
    @JosePluma

    JosePluma:

    I spent many of my weekends in high school sorting used paper, glass and metal. 

    I always carried a sack with me to carry any recyclable material I found.

    I even pull cans out of the trash.

    In my teens, I hauled truckloads of manure for my parents’ garden.

    As you can tell, in high school, I was a real social butterfly.

    • #42
  13. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    There is an irrational compulsion to recycle in America today. The motivation is not to make the best possible tradeoffs, but the desire to feel virtuous, coupled with an intense, K through 12 – to the grave system of social false moral indoctrination.

    I would favor a research program to determine whether or not the desire to feel virtuous is a significant motivation, and if so, whether this desire differs between the pro-recycling and anti-recycling sides.

    As to the system of moral indoctrination in K-12, I don’t think there is any need for such research. There is such a system.

    I’ve researched it.  My sample size was 100% of the cohort for whom reliable data is available on motives.  Here are my results.

    “Do I recycle stuff when I know it’s probably stupid because I am self-righteous?”

    I would say “no” if I had to guess. Or maybe “yes”.  No,  I think it is just a simple compulsive need to “not waste”.   Not a self-righteous thing, though not rational, either.  (For what it’s worth, the progUI’s overwhelmingly give “saving the planet” as their motive: effectively, they’ve already told us that self-righteousness is their motive.)

    “Does this desire differ between your pro-recycling and anti-recycling sides?”

    Absolutely.  My anti-recycling side is completely objective and completely non-ideological:  Market-driven recycling’s good.  Coercive recycling is good when and only when the social benefits exceed the costs of massive stupidity, cold indifference to humanity, resistance to reform, and corruption that comes built-in with government action.

    “Do Conservatives as well as leftists desire such a system, but differ in the moral values in which they want children indoctrinated?”

    Yep. 

     

    • #43
  14. Cow Girl Thatcher
    Cow Girl
    @CowGirl

    JosePluma: I’m a compulsive recycler.

    Heh…me too! I learned it at my mother’s knee. But here is how we “recycled” on the farm.

    1. Any left-over food scraps were collected in a bin that, when filled, went out to the pig pen, where they recycled it into bacon, ham, and pork chops.
    2. Any paper scraps were collected in another bin, and that was burned in a big barrel when it was filled. The ashes ended up spread over the plowed ground in the spring.
    3. There wasn’t much plastic. If there was a plastic bag, from store-bought hamburger buns or something, it was washed out, dried and reused, and reused, and reused, and reused.
    4. If your jeans got a hole in them, Mother would take another pair of worn jeans and cut out some of the fabric, and patch the hole. (Yes, yes, I do know that NOW jeans often come with premade holes.)
    5. When clothing was worn out beyond patching, then it was turned into a rug. My mom knew a person who’d take bags of fabric, and somehow created rag rugs.
    6. The hay that we spent all summer hauling into the big sheds, then all winter hauling back out to feed the cows with, was then converted into manure. Which we hauled back out and piled up till spring. Then, the manure was spread back over the fields to energize, and revitalize the soil to grow more hay. Which we spent all summer hauling into big sheds, then all winter——-ad nauseam.
    7. The by-product — or rather PURPOSE — of the hay recycling was to collect the milk from those cows, so my dad could sell it to the cheese factory. Voila: our income. Plus, we’d eat one of the cows (actually a steer) every year.

    Farming: the ultimate recycling experience. As a result of this “Use It Up, Wear It Out, Make It Do, Or Do Without” attitude was that I learned how to live with very little cash, and waste. It was a valuable lesson to learn, and I passed it on to my children, who have been passing it on to their children.

    • #44
  15. Nohaaj Coolidge
    Nohaaj
    @Nohaaj

    Cow Girl (View Comment):

    JosePluma: I’m a compulsive recycler.

    Heh…me too! I learned it at my mother’s knee. But here is how we “recycled” on the farm.

    1. Any left-over food scraps were collected in a bin that, when filled, went out to the pig pen, where they recycled it into bacon, ham, and pork chops.
    2. Any paper scraps were collected in another bin, and that was burned in a big barrel when it was filled. The ashes ended up spread over the plowed ground in the spring.
    3. There wasn’t much plastic. If there was a plastic bag, from store-bought hamburger buns or something, it was washed out, dried and reused, and reused, and reused, and reused.
    4. If your jeans got a hole in them, Mother would take another pair of worn jeans and cut out some of the fabric, and patch the hole. (Yes, yes, I do know that NOW jeans often come with premade holes.)
    5. When clothing was worn out beyond patching, then it was turned into a rug. My mom knew a person who’d take bags of fabric, and somehow created rag rugs.
    6. The hay that we spent all summer hauling into the big sheds, then all winter hauling back out to feed the cows with, was then converted into manure. Which we hauled back out and piled up till spring. Then, the manure was spread back over the fields to energize, and revitalize the soil to grow more hay. Which we spent all summer hauling into big sheds, then all winter——-ad nauseam.
    7. The by-product — or rather PURPOSE — of the hay recycling was to collect the milk from those cows, so my dad could sell it to the cheese factory. Voila: our income. Plus, we’d eat one of the cows (actually a steer) every year.

    Farming: the ultimate recycling experience. As a result of this “Use It Up, Wear It Out, Make It Do, Or Do Without” attitude was that I learned how to live with very little cash, and waste. It was a valuable lesson to learn, and I passed it on to my children, who have been passing it on to their children.

    that life style sounds sooo… sustainable. You were uber cool, before uber was cool. 

     

    • #45
  16. Nohaaj Coolidge
    Nohaaj
    @Nohaaj

    JosePluma (View Comment):

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    https://fox2now.com/2018/04/20/china-refuses-to-recycle-more-of-the-worlds-trash/

     http://www.wbur.org/news/2018/08/20/cities-cleaner-recycling

     

    Thanks for the links. The article about Lowell is a perfect illustration of what recycling has become–virtue signaling and make-work. Petty bureaucrats scrutinizing your every action and penalizing you for not following picayune regulations. All of in service of a program that is useless at best and actually may harm the environment. Actually a great microcosm of government as a whole.

    In Gunther’s defense, he is tasked with the mandated, by law required, recycling stream process. He does not have the clout to change law, therefore, he must rationally provide the best method of implementing it.  He does his best at minimizing the cost impact to the overall community.  The task is monumental.  You are required by law to pick up and process recycling, from a community where some are willing, most comply, and few are diligent enough (can you say “CDO” – which, BTW,  is the alphabetically correct form of “OCD”, but I digress) to provide an uncontaminated recycling stream. So the education and enforcement procedures (fines) are enacted to “tax” the citizens who are responsible for excess contamination – and increased processing costs. The goal of the fines is to enlighten the citizens to learn and obey a law.  An additional interesting aside: straws are not recyclable, which might be part of the recent panic and outrage directed at the simple and innocuous straw. 

    • #46
  17. JosePluma Coolidge
    JosePluma
    @JosePluma

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    JosePluma (View Comment):

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    https://fox2now.com/2018/04/20/china-refuses-to-recycle-more-of-the-worlds-trash/

    http://www.wbur.org/news/2018/08/20/cities-cleaner-recycling

     

    Thanks for the links. The article about Lowell is a perfect illustration of what recycling has become–virtue signaling and make-work. Petty bureaucrats scrutinizing your every action and penalizing you for not following picayune regulations. All of in service of a program that is useless at best and actually may harm the environment. Actually a great microcosm of government as a whole.

    In Gunther’s defense, he is tasked with the mandated, by law required, recycling stream process. He does not have the clout to change law, therefore, he must rationally provide the best method of implementing it. He does his best at minimizing the cost impact to the overall community. The task is monumental. You are required by law to pick up and process recycling, from a community where some are willing, most comply, and few are diligent enough (can you say “CDO” – which, BTW, is the alphabetically correct form of “OCD”, but I digress) to provide an uncontaminated recycling stream. So the education and enforcement procedures (fines) are enacted to “tax” the citizens who are responsible for excess contamination – and increased processing costs. The goal of the fines is to enlighten the citizens to learn and obey a law. An additional interesting aside: straws are not recyclable, which might be part of the recent panic and outrage directed at the simple and innocuous straw.

    I’m not criticizing him.  He’s obviously working hard and I’m sure he’s doing the best job he can.  When I was a cop I had to enforce all the laws, not just the ones I agreed with.  The trouble is with the elitists who institute these asinine policies, then delegate the actual work to poor schmucks like him.  Then when the market changes, China stops accepting stuff, transportation costs get too high and all the useless garbage starts piling up in storage, it’s because of the incompetent underlings and stupid citizens who don’t know how to do socialism recycle correctly.

     

     

     

    • #47
  18. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    JosePluma (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    cdor (View Comment):

    […]I was once invited to join a capital venture using recycled glass to make countertops. It sounded very promising until I went to the plant to observe the process and view the end product. I was shocked to walk through the plant and see silica dust thick in the air from the grinding process. The plant workers weren’t even wearing protective breathing apparatus, nor was I offered one as I roamed through the plant. […]

    From the Texas study I linked above:

    • Since glass contains silica rather than crystalline silica, it does not have the health risks associated with natural sand.

    Can someone make sense of this?

     

    Try this article.

    Ah:

    Bottle glass is a silicate containing various other ingredients which have been melted and upon cooling forms an amorphous, or noncrystalline structure. Although SiO2 is a primary ingredient in the manufacturing of bottle glass, when glass is formed the crystalline SiO2 structure is changed to an amorphous structure and the SiO2 is no longer considered crystalline.

    […]OSHA classifies glass dust as a “nuisance dust” [ . . . ] However, even though a dust may be considered generally innocuous and not be recognized as the cause of serious pathological conditions, its level should be kept as low as is practical.

    • #48
  19. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    JosePluma (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    cdor (View Comment):

    […]I was once invited to join a capital venture using recycled glass to make countertops. It sounded very promising until I went to the plant to observe the process and view the end product. I was shocked to walk through the plant and see silica dust thick in the air from the grinding process. The plant workers weren’t even wearing protective breathing apparatus, nor was I offered one as I roamed through the plant. […]

    From the Texas study I linked above:

    • Since glass contains silica rather than crystalline silica, it does not have the health risks associated with natural sand.

    Can someone make sense of this?

     

    Try this article.

    Thanks for the article @josepluma and your input @cliffordbrown. I am surprised but not encouraged. The article says they are still studying the effects of ground glass dust. I would expect they will find something worthy of litigation before long.

    • #49
  20. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    Thanks for the info on aluminum – didn’t know that. 

    • #50
  21. JosePluma Coolidge
    JosePluma
    @JosePluma

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Thanks for the info on aluminum – didn’t know that.

    You are welcome. 

    • #51
  22. Al French, sad sack Moderator
    Al French, sad sack
    @AlFrench

    Qoumidan (View Comment):

    JosePluma: I also married into the right family. My in-laws’ rule about Christmas is that all the gifts exchanged must be handmade or used, nothing bought new.

    Blech! Gag! Hurk! I think I would just opt out of giving or receiving, which I suppose would be even better for the environment.

    More on topic, way back in the pre-internet dark ages every year for a few weeks in late winter there was smelt dipping at the river near our house. People would dip early in the day and after everyone had gone home in the afternoon my mother would gather all her spawn and we would walk along the river collecting all the bear cans to recycle. I don’t quite remember but I suspect we also cleaned up some random bits of garbage as well. When we took the cans in, we also took in newspapers we had collected. I don’t recall how much money we got for it but after several years of doing this the recycling place started demanding we do all the sorting ourselves and lowered price they were willing to pay to nearly nothing. So we stopped bothering. It wasn’t like we made money before but at least we weren’t paying to do all that work. That was one of my first clues that recycling was not what they claimed.

    You must have grown up in Oregon.

    • #52
  23. Qoumidan Coolidge
    Qoumidan
    @Qoumidan

    Al French, sad sack (View Comment):

    Qoumidan (View Comment):

    JosePluma: I also married into the right family. My in-laws’ rule about Christmas is that all the gifts exchanged must be handmade or used, nothing bought new.

    Blech! Gag! Hurk! I think I would just opt out of giving or receiving, which I suppose would be even better for the environment.

    More on topic, way back in the pre-internet dark ages every year for a few weeks in late winter there was smelt dipping at the river near our house. People would dip early in the day and after everyone had gone home in the afternoon my mother would gather all her spawn and we would walk along the river collecting all the bear cans to recycle. I don’t quite remember but I suspect we also cleaned up some random bits of garbage as well. When we took the cans in, we also took in newspapers we had collected. I don’t recall how much money we got for it but after several years of doing this the recycling place started demanding we do all the sorting ourselves and lowered price they were willing to pay to nearly nothing. So we stopped bothering. It wasn’t like we made money before but at least we weren’t paying to do all that work. That was one of my first clues that recycling was not what they claimed.

    You must have grown up in Oregon.

    Washington.  But not far from the border.

    • #53
  24. Al French, sad sack Moderator
    Al French, sad sack
    @AlFrench

    Qoumidan (View Comment):

    Al French, sad sack (View Comment):

    Qoumidan (View Comment):

    JosePluma: I also married into the right family. My in-laws’ rule about Christmas is that all the gifts exchanged must be handmade or used, nothing bought new.

    Blech! Gag! Hurk! I think I would just opt out of giving or receiving, which I suppose would be even better for the environment.

    More on topic, way back in the pre-internet dark ages every year for a few weeks in late winter there was smelt dipping at the river near our house. People would dip early in the day and after everyone had gone home in the afternoon my mother would gather all her spawn and we would walk along the river collecting all the bear cans to recycle. I don’t quite remember but I suspect we also cleaned up some random bits of garbage as well. When we took the cans in, we also took in newspapers we had collected. I don’t recall how much money we got for it but after several years of doing this the recycling place started demanding we do all the sorting ourselves and lowered price they were willing to pay to nearly nothing. So we stopped bothering. It wasn’t like we made money before but at least we weren’t paying to do all that work. That was one of my first clues that recycling was not what they claimed.

    You must have grown up in Oregon.

    Washington. But not far from the border.

    Picking up beer cans is a lot more renumerative in Oregon.

    • #54
  25. Qoumidan Coolidge
    Qoumidan
    @Qoumidan

    Al French, sad sack (View Comment):

    You must have grown up in Oregon.

    Washington. But not far from the border.

    Picking up beer cans is a lot more renumerative in Oregon.

    It was 25-30 years ago.  I don’t know how much has changed since then.

    • #55
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