Breaking: Manafort Found Guilty on 8 of 18 Counts, Cohen Pleads Guilty to 8 Counts

 

Paul Manafort, the former campaign chairman for candidate Donald Trump, was facing 18 criminal counts. The jury found him guilty on eight of the counts, which included five counts of tax fraud, two counts of bank fraud, and one count of failure to disclose a foreign bank account. The jury said that they could not reach consensus on 10 of the counts, so those were declared a mistrial.

At about the same time the Manafort verdict came in, Trump’s former personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, pleaded guilty to eight counts. He admitted that he paid a pornographic actress for her silence during the 2016 presidential campaign and pleaded guilty to multiple charges of bank and tax fraud.

.

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  1. Guruforhire Inactive
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    Frank Soto (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):
    This won’t lead to impeachment. It’s clear that the Republicans and their base have put all their eggs in the Trump basket. There’s no political will to impeach Trump over a technical violation of the law.

    It’s a fallacy to extrapolate in a straight line.

    There may not have been the political will to impeach Trump as of yesterday morning. Things may be different on the morning of November 7.

     

    Not if this is all there is. As Jamie said, he pays the fine and goes about his business.

    That would be the reasonable answer to the question, but when in the past 3-4 years have we lived in the sane timeline?

    • #91
  2. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    I mean, everybody just glossed over when Chelsea Clinton and Robby Mook met with that Russian lawyer on the promise of getting dirt from the Russian government about Trump.

    Oh, right. That never happened.

    So Trump the non-politician was too naive to use cutouts when gathering his oppo the way the professional pols do.

    • #92
  3. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Flynn, Manafort, Cohen…it’s almost like Trump surrounded himself with crooks.

    So much for bridges.

    Googling for convictions under President Bush I ran across this handy chart from Daily Kos. It’s Daily Kos, so I do not vouch for accuracy, but i assume this much is public record and the numbers probably aren’t entirely off.

    ADMINISTRATION PARTY INDICTMENTS CONVICTIONS
    BARACK OBAMA Democratic 0 0
    GEORGE W. BUSH Republican 16 16
    BILL CLINTON Democratic 2 1
    GEORGE H. W. BUSH Republican 1 1
    RONALD REAGAN Republican 26 16
    JIMMY CARTER Democratic 1 0
    GERALD FORD Republican 1 1
    RICHARD NIXON Republican 76 55

    Now, it’s possible that only Republicans “surround themselves with crooks” including Saint Reagan and Honorable Bush. More likely, I think, is that 1) it is the Swamp so crooks are ever present, and 2) the one way weaponization of the law has been reality for far longer than we thought.

    And I don’t mind a strict adherence to law. BUT. The highest principle here, to me, is that the rule should either apply to everybody equally or nobody at all. If it applies to everybody equally then federal prosecutors and judges better plan for extra late nights, weekends, and no vacations; hire more interns – because I suspect that we’re waaaaay behind on indictments across government. HRC and all in her orbit for starters. Pay special attention to Illinois (like shooting fish in a barrel over here). Maybe the Swamp will end up draining itself.

    • #93
  4. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    EDISONPARKS (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    So now that Move On has been appropriated by the Trump crowd how long before they start asking “At this point what difference does it make?”

    Only the best people…

    So a question for the lawyers if you break the law under the direction of your boss is that not a conspiracy between you two? Is Trump then also not guilty of conspiring to break camapaign finance law?

    My friends Michael Avenati will be our next president. It will be amazing.

    Break which law? The fact that Cohen paid the porn actress to sign an NDA was never in dispute nor is it illegal.

    Cohen is now saying he arranged the NDA under the direction of Trump which to me was always apparent, and Trump denying his knowledge of the NDA with the porn actress was always highly unlikely.

    Squeezing all this normally legal sleaze into a campaign finance violation seems like a stretch, but I guess we’ll see.

    Cohen’s statement was that he broke the law at the direction of the candidate. Campaign finance violations are pretty common though, Obama did it and received a fine. Trump’s campaign should probably be fined over this and we can all move on.

    Honestly I think it could go either way. I could see how it was a campaign contribution. I can also see how it wasn’t. Because of that I tend to not care too much one way or the other about it. It’s not a big deal to me, whether Trump, Republican, or Democrat.

    However, I can also see why it should be a big deal. It’s the president engaging in a “crime”. Then lying about the crime (if he did in fact lie, which, I admit, I don’t care enough to go back and parse all of the quotes – though I’m sure I’ll be forced to care soon enough).

    Most importantly, though, I worry about the political weaponization of the law. However, I do not want my side to be the one unilaterally surrendering.

    • #94
  5. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    I mean, everybody just glossed over when Chelsea Clinton and Robby Mook met with that Russian lawyer on the promise of getting dirt from the Russian government about Trump.

    Oh, right. That never happened.

    So Trump the non-politician was too naive to use cutouts when gathering his oppo the way the professional pols do.

    Allow me to clarify something:

    Most pols don’t get their opposition research from foreign governments, especially the Russians.

    You get that that’s not a normal thing right?

    And if they’re offered information from a foreign government, especially the Russians, it sets off alarm bells.  At a minimum, they run the other way.  The smart ones call the FBI.  

    What they don’t do is meet with the Russians, then lie about it repeatedly.  

    • #95
  6. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    In a Fox News interview, Michael Caputo says that Cohen earlier and publicly claimed that Trump did not order the payoff.

    I believe that in any circumstances testimony should be backed by physical evidence or otherwise be verified without reliance on trust to convict a defendant. But in a situation involving a witness who has proven a liar, anything he says should obviously be substantiated by other evidence. Is Caputo mistaken? 

    Why does Cohen’s testimony matter, if he has proven a liar? 

    • #96
  7. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Six years and three months after Nixon resigned, the Greatest President of the Twentieth Century was elected.

    Who is the Republican Governor who will stride into the Presidency in 2020 or 2024?

    Tim Pawlenty with John Kasich VP.

    • #97
  8. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Justin Hertog (View Comment):

    I’d like to see some more reporting about these so-called congressional “hush money” funds, which supposedly use taxpayer dollars to settle sexual harassment accusations against members. I’ve head these settlements involve NDAs. I wonder if they’re considered campaign contributions. Perhaps they should be. It’s late summer, but what a bumper crop of hypocrites could be harvested this fall!

    The rule should apply to everybody or nobody. I’m ok with it applying to everybody. Drain the Swamp! A special election to replace disgraced politicians in every pot! Nothing to fear but fear of NDA’s itself!

    • #98
  9. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):
    Why does Cohen’s testimony matter, if he has proven a liar? 

    That’s part of the problem.  Who do you believe, the proven liar (Cohen) or the proven liar (Trump)?

    • #99
  10. Frank Soto Member
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    I mean, everybody just glossed over when Chelsea Clinton and Robby Mook met with that Russian lawyer on the promise of getting dirt from the Russian government about Trump.

    Oh, right. That never happened.

    So Trump the non-politician was too naive to use cutouts when gathering his oppo the way the professional pols do.

    Allow me to clarify something:

    Most pols don’t get their opposition research from foreign governments, especially the Russians.

    You get that that’s not a normal thing right?

    And if they’re offered information from a foreign government, especially the Russians, it sets off alarm bells. At a minimum, they run the other way. The smart ones call the FBI.

    What they don’t do is meet with the Russians, then lie about it repeatedly.

    I agree none of this is good, but is any of it a crime?  If it’s not a crime, do you expect Republicans to hand the white house off to the left in 2020 (which is guaranteed what impeachment would do) for impropriety that is not illegal?

    • #100
  11. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Six years and three months after Nixon resigned, the Greatest President of the Twentieth Century was elected.

    Who is the Republican Governor who will stride into the Presidency in 2020 or 2024?

    Tim Pawlenty with John Kasich VP.

    No.  Pawlenty is done.  His career is over.

    Kasich is obviously going to make a run in 2020.  The question is whether it’ll be against Trump or Pence.

    • #101
  12. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Justin Hertog (View Comment):
    Honestly? A lot longer. Like, forever. It’s called opposition research and a “nothing burger” when Democrats do it.

    You’re right, of course.

    I mean, everybody just glossed over when Chelsea Clinton and Robby Mook met with that Russian lawyer on the promise of getting dirt from the Russian government about Trump.

    Oh, right. That never happened.

    Funny how the people rationalizing it for Trump would be the ones [defecating] bricks in it had though.

    No, HRC just paid (through intermediaries) foreign agents to actually obtain and disseminate political dirt from Russians. It’s either all a crime or none of it is. I honestly don’t think that should be a crime either, though. 

    • #102
  13. Guruforhire Inactive
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Justin Hertog (View Comment):
    Honestly? A lot longer. Like, forever. It’s called opposition research and a “nothing burger” when Democrats do it.

    You’re right, of course.

    I mean, everybody just glossed over when Chelsea Clinton and Robby Mook met with that Russian lawyer on the promise of getting dirt from the Russian government about Trump.

    Oh, right. That never happened.

    Funny how the people rationalizing it for Trump would be the ones [defecating] bricks in it had though.

    No, HRC just paid (through intermediaries) foreign agents to actually obtain and disseminate political dirt from Russians. It’s either all a crime or none of it is. I honestly don’t think that should be a crime either, though.

    Yeah the Steele Dossier is still sitting out there polluting the environment like the elephants foot.

    • #103
  14. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    Frank Soto (View Comment):
    I agree none of this is good, but is any of it a crime? If it’s not a crime, do you expect Republicans to hand the white house off to the left in 2020 (which is guaranteed what impeachment would do) for impropriety that is not illegal?

    It would most certainly be a crime if they lied about it under oath.  Or if they obstructed justice, or engaged in a conspiracy, to attempt to cover it up.  

     

    • #104
  15. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Six years and three months after Nixon resigned, the Greatest President of the Twentieth Century was elected.

    Who is the Republican Governor who will stride into the Presidency in 2020 or 2024?

    Tim Pawlenty with John Kasich VP.

    No. Pawlenty is done. His career is over.

    Kasich is obviously going to make a run in 2020. The question is whether it’ll be against Trump or Pence.

    Oh right. So Charlie Crist with Jeff Flake VP. 

    • #105
  16. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Six years and three months after Nixon resigned, the Greatest President of the Twentieth Century was elected.

    Who is the Republican Governor who will stride into the Presidency in 2020 or 2024?

    Tim Pawlenty with John Kasich VP.

    No. Pawlenty is done. His career is over.

    Kasich is obviously going to make a run in 2020. The question is whether it’ll be against Trump or Pence.

    Oh right. So Charlie Crist with Jeff Flake VP.

    Speculating on who Kasich might pick as his veep two years from now if he were to run for President and win the Republican nomination seems a little … premature?

    • #106
  17. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Frank Soto (View Comment):
    I agree none of this is good, but is any of it a crime? If it’s not a crime, do you expect Republicans to hand the white house off to the left in 2020 (which is guaranteed what impeachment would do) for impropriety that is not illegal?

    It would most certainly be a crime if they lied about it under oath. Or if they obstructed justice, or engaged in a conspiracy, to attempt to cover it up.

    Obstruction of justice. What justice and which obstruction? Conspiracy to………? Cover up what exactly?

    Never mind. This is also a well worn rut.

    • #107
  18. Frank Soto Member
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Frank Soto (View Comment):
    I agree none of this is good, but is any of it a crime? If it’s not a crime, do you expect Republicans to hand the white house off to the left in 2020 (which is guaranteed what impeachment would do) for impropriety that is not illegal?

    It would most certainly be a crime if they lied about it under oath. Or if they obstructed justice, or engaged in a conspiracy, to attempt to cover it up.

     

    Trump hasn’t given testimony, so he obviously hasn’t lied under oath.

    • #108
  19. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    Frank Soto (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Frank Soto (View Comment):
    I agree none of this is good, but is any of it a crime? If it’s not a crime, do you expect Republicans to hand the white house off to the left in 2020 (which is guaranteed what impeachment would do) for impropriety that is not illegal?

    It would most certainly be a crime if they lied about it under oath. Or if they obstructed justice, or engaged in a conspiracy, to attempt to cover it up.

     

    Trump hasn’t given testimony, so he obviously hasn’t lied under oath.

    That would be perjury.  He hasn’t done that … yet.  Obstruction of justice on the other hand…

    • #109
  20. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Six years and three months after Nixon resigned, the Greatest President of the Twentieth Century was elected.

    Who is the Republican Governor who will stride into the Presidency in 2020 or 2024?

    Tim Pawlenty with John Kasich VP.

    No. Pawlenty is done. His career is over.

    Kasich is obviously going to make a run in 2020. The question is whether it’ll be against Trump or Pence.

    Oh right. So Charlie Crist with Jeff Flake VP.

    Speculating on who Kasich might pick as his veep two years from now if he were to run for President and win the Republican nomination seems a little … premature?

    Heh, not once did I speculate on who would be Kasich’s VP pick. No matter. I’m on board the Gary Robbins train! Who will be Reagan to Trump’s Nixon? Now is exactly the right time to discuss that. It was always the right time, and it will be for ever, and ever, and ever, and ever and ever……………………………………………. All work and no play make Ed G. a dull boy.

    • #110
  21. Frank Soto Member
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Frank Soto (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Frank Soto (View Comment):
    I agree none of this is good, but is any of it a crime? If it’s not a crime, do you expect Republicans to hand the white house off to the left in 2020 (which is guaranteed what impeachment would do) for impropriety that is not illegal?

    It would most certainly be a crime if they lied about it under oath. Or if they obstructed justice, or engaged in a conspiracy, to attempt to cover it up.

     

    Trump hasn’t given testimony, so he obviously hasn’t lied under oath.

    That would be perjury. He hasn’t done that … 

    I am giving you the world’s biggest eye roll right now.  He has not been disposed, nor even spoken to investigators.  He cannot have lied under oath.  If you are going to be that pedantic about my speech, you need to be more precise in yours.

    • #111
  22. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    I mean, everybody just glossed over when Chelsea Clinton and Robby Mook met with that Russian lawyer on the promise of getting dirt from the Russian government about Trump.

    Oh, right. That never happened.

    So Trump the non-politician was too naive to use cutouts when gathering his oppo the way the professional pols do.

    Allow me to clarify something:

    Most pols don’t get their opposition research from foreign governments, especially the Russians.

    You get that that’s not a normal thing right?

    And if they’re offered information from a foreign government, especially the Russians, it sets off alarm bells. At a minimum, they run the other way. The smart ones call the FBI.

    What they don’t do is meet with the Russians, then lie about it repeatedly.

    You’re familiar with the provenance of the Steele Dossier, aren’t you?

     

    • #112
  23. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    You’re familiar with the provenance of the Steele Dossier, aren’t you?

    Did it come from an enemy foreign government?

    • #113
  24. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    I mean, everybody just glossed over when Chelsea Clinton and Robby Mook met with that Russian lawyer on the promise of getting dirt from the Russian government about Trump.

    Oh, right. That never happened.

    So Trump the non-politician was too naive to use cutouts when gathering his oppo the way the professional pols do.

    Allow me to clarify something:

    Most pols don’t get their opposition research from foreign governments, especially the Russians.

    You get that that’s not a normal thing right?

    And if they’re offered information from a foreign government, especially the Russians, it sets off alarm bells. At a minimum, they run the other way. The smart ones call the FBI.

    What they don’t do is meet with the Russians, then lie about it repeatedly.

    This is the nut of the matter.  

    Here are the remaining links that may have been solved but are not public.  (Yes, I am speculating, based upon the available evidence.)  

    1.  Donald Trump, Jr. got a call from a blocked line after the meeting.  I believe that it is likely that that call was from his father.  That can be shown by phone records, and/or the indictment of Don Jr.
    2. Trump requests that Russia obtain Hillary’s email.  The indictments show that Russia took actions that same day.
    3. Roger Stone suggests that emails would be forthcoming.
    4. Hillary is bombarded with negative, stolen emails, which appear to have been obtained by Russia, who sends them to Wikileaks.
    5. Hillary’s numbers go down.
    6. Trump barely wins by 80,000 votes scattered over 3 states.
    7. The public concludes that but for the Trump Campaign conspiring with the Russians, he would have lost.  Ergo, while Trump is the legally elected President, he is illegitimate.
    • #114
  25. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Six years and three months after Nixon resigned, the Greatest President of the Twentieth Century was elected.

    Who is the Republican Governor who will stride into the Presidency in 2020 or 2024?

    Tim Pawlenty with John Kasich VP.

    But for Pawlenty losing his primary a week ago, I would have agreed.

    • #115
  26. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Frank Soto (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Frank Soto (View Comment):
    I agree none of this is good, but is any of it a crime? If it’s not a crime, do you expect Republicans to hand the white house off to the left in 2020 (which is guaranteed what impeachment would do) for impropriety that is not illegal?

    It would most certainly be a crime if they lied about it under oath. Or if they obstructed justice, or engaged in a conspiracy, to attempt to cover it up.

     

    Trump hasn’t given testimony

    [Yet.]

    , so he obviously hasn’t lied under oath.

     

    • #116
  27. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    You’re familiar with the provenance of the Steele Dossier, aren’t you?

    Did it come from an enemy foreign government?

    Yes. High ranking Russians close to Putin, according to Steele. 

    That is, of course, if you consider Russia to be an enemy. That’s some strong stuff there, escalating (or degrading) relations with a nuclear nation like Russia. I suppose it’s worth it, though, if we get rid of Trump in the process.

    • #117
  28. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Six years and three months after Nixon resigned, the Greatest President of the Twentieth Century was elected.

    Who is the Republican Governor who will stride into the Presidency in 2020 or 2024?

    Tim Pawlenty with John Kasich VP.

    No. Pawlenty is done. His career is over.

    Kasich is obviously going to make a run in 2020. The question is whether it’ll be against Trump or Pence.

    Oh right. So Charlie Crist with Jeff Flake VP.

    Speculating on who Kasich might pick as his veep two years from now if he were to run for President and win the Republican nomination seems a little … premature?

    Heh, not once did I speculate on who would be Kasich’s VP pick. No matter. I’m on board the Gary Robbins train! Who will be Reagan to Trump’s Nixon? Now is exactly the right time to discuss that. It was always the right time, and it will be for ever, and ever, and ever, and ever and ever……………………………………………. All work and no play make Ed G. a dull boy.

    Brian Sandoval, the beloved Hispanic Governor of Nevada who has stayed far away from DC?

    Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, a man of unquestioned decency?

     

    • #118
  29. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    You’re familiar with the provenance of the Steele Dossier, aren’t you?

    Did it come from an enemy foreign government?

    Yes. High ranking Russians close to Putin, according to Steele.

    That is, of course, if you consider Russia to be an enemy. That’s some strong stuff there, escalating (or degrading) relations with a nuclear nation like Russia. I suppose it’s worth it, though, if we get rid of Trump in the process.

    Is the CIA engaged with collusion with foreign governments when it solicits information from foreign government officials? 

    • #119
  30. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    We are in the Second Quarter, just before the Two Minute Warning.  Mueller has the ball on the 20, with all three timeouts available.

    • #120
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