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On Family Men
My dad was a family man. He wasn’t necessarily the warmest of dudes when I was growing up, but he believed then and now in family. He raised his three kids to the best of his ability, and everything he did was for his family. He never cheated on his wife, never divorced (50+ years of marriage), never abused her. He whooped us kids when we needed it, but I can’t say that I was abused.
I, too, am a family man. Family comes before work, church, pleasure. The only thing I put before my kids is my wife, and the only thing I put before her is God. Most of the time anyway. I’ve been married 25 years, never cheated, never abused her or the kids. I’ve always worked to put food on the table, cleats on the feets, and gas in the car. I’m a good dad and husband. I’m a family man.
That’s why it bothers me when I read someone say they think Donald Trump is a good family man. Now, I realize I’ve already lost some of you. You are already typing your response. That’s ok. For the rest of you, let me just put aside politics and Hillary and all that and say: I’m happy with most of the accomplishments of the past 18 months. I’m absolutely glad Trump won instead of Hillary. I do not need a good family man to be President. In one sense, I wouldn’t want one. I want someone who will put his job ahead of his wife and kids. Because we need that in the White House. So, let’s put all the TDS, NeverTrump, Trumpkin, etc., aside. Let’s just talk morality.
Trump may love his kids and the wives he’s had. But he’s not a family man. Good family men don’t cheat on their kid’s mothers. They don’t go for stripper sex right after one of their children is born. We have plenty of evidence that Trump is not a moral man. So it boggles the mind that someone would say he is. Prove me wrong.
Published in General
Standards and punishment are two different things and I did not mention punishment in my comment. It’s quite telling that no one has yet to provide an answer for why moral standards should be lowered to this “European” alternative. Surely someone among those that agreed with the statement can provide a compelling argument in its favor. After all Ricochet exists for discussion.
I assume the European model just means civil partnerships.
I did answer your challenge to elaborate on why lowering standards for moral behavior is good by challenging your premises 1) that there remain standards to be lowered and 2) that extramarital sex is necessarily even a moral question anymore.
I’ll further answer it more directly: trying to impose your moral standard on someone who disagrees is itself immoral and freeing someone to live by their own standard is better morally. Also, clarity can be a moral question to the extent that liberty can be moral a question and to the extent that law should be aligned with culture and to the extent that culture and law should both align with nature. Randy and wandering men are certainly built into nature, and if a man or woman has means and if the risk of unplanned pregnancy can approach zero then the bigger moral hazard would be restricting pursuit of happiness.
Of course I probably actually agree with your premises, but I recognize that not everyone does and that these approaches above are probably reasonable positions to take in that case.
Um, kind of. I guess, but did Jesus really die on the cross to raise moral standards? If anything, He lowered them. He said that the tax collectors and prostitutes are the Kingdom of Heaven: Jesus was not a straightforward advocate of high moral standards. He was a straightforward advocate of mercy, forgiveness, and not judging others.
Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future.
Now we are veering off in to difficult territory, because it requires some discussion of theology. Before I comment further, may I ask: are you a Christian? And if so, are you aware of something called the “bridal paradigm”?
I did provide an answer. You totally ignored it. This is why I try my best to avoid you. Goodbye.
I am a cafeteria Catholic, by which I mean, I agree with the Catholic Church about almost everything, but they kind of lose me when they come out against condoms: my disagreements with the Church are fairly minor.
I have never heard of the bridal paradigm.
You really think there is a possibility he is repentant? That is funny. I suspect he is proud of his infidelities.
I think there’s a misapprehension, here. Christ himself said two things that are relevant here:
First, he said that He came not to abolish the law but to uphold it.
Second, he said that the only grounds for divorce were sexual immorality.
While I agree with your final sentence, I cannot agree that Christ lowered the standards of behavior with respect to marriage. This play in to the bridal paradigm…
The bridal paradigm is a way of looking at the Gospel. There are many passages in the Bible in which Christ is referred to as the bridegroom, the Church (you and I) as His bride. Some say the entire book of Songs of Solomon refers to this paradigm. Women understand it far better than men, for obvious reasons.
I think the reason Christ speaks so strongly about marriage is because the marriage on earth between a man and woman is supposed to reflect the relationship between Christ and the church. “For this reason a man will leave his family and cling to his wife…and the two shall become one…” “Men love your wife as Christ loved the church…laying His life down for her…”
I totally get that we all fall short, that not everyone is a Christian, etc. etc. I totally understand that. But that said, dang it, marriage is important. Really important. I would even go so far as to say that unhealthy marriages are the number one problem in America today.
Look, I’m not even talking about Trump here, at this point. I’m just talking about how critical it is for a family that the mother and father commit to each other, until death do they part. That’s all.
Ok, does this mean that if my husband is beating me bloody every day, I can’t divorce him unless he cheats on me? There are many things-slavery, for instance, that Jesus did not address, maybe because He didn’t come to just offer us a list of what we could or couldn’t do?
As for adultery, sure, it’s grounds for divorce, but that doesn’t mean that divorce is required in every case.
That’s a good question, and I’ll tell you my opinion. I think when Christ said “sexual immorality” he was referring to “infidelity.” And if a man is beating you, he’s not being faithful to you. But that is just my opinion, so I’d encourage you to research it further.
Of course not, and I never argued that it did.
He has indeed.
So I agree wholeheartedly with your theology here on the Bridal Paradigm. I actually had a post on it promoted to main feed! Never heard of the term, though.
However, the church is an unfaithful bride and Christ will not divorce us.
Unless you think God divorced the Whore of Babylon and made the Christian church his new bride… and that is a whole new can of worms.
So Christ said that marriage is eternal, but out of mercy he would allow for divorce for sexual immorality. I think when a husband or wife forgive each other for sexual immorality, they are more fully embracing the intent of Christian marriage.
Wow, Judith, great line. Is that yours? One of the best summations of one of the basic tenants of Christianity I’ve ever read. If Jesus had said this, it would be included in half the Sunday sermons around the world. He did say similar things, of course: “All have sinned and fallen short. . . .” And of course, “You who are without sin. . . .”
Couldn’t agree more. Unlike my ruptured Achilles, which won’t be stronger than it was before, a broken marriage healed by the grace of God is stronger than it was before the break. You guys have said I need humility, and that I must think I’m better than everyone else, the truth is just the opposite. I know first hand the power of Christ for a healed marriage, though I will say I never fell into infidelity.
Are you being sarcastic, @kentforrester? It is definitely not my line; don’t know whose it is :)
No, no, Judith. I’ve been very snarky lately, so I can understand why you might think that.
I’m entirely serious. It’s a great thought expressed greatly. (Your response persuades me that I should lay off the snark and irony for awhile. I think I’ve overdone it. From now on I’m serious. For a few days, at least. Then back to snark.)
Don’t worry about it, no offense taken, it’s just a very common saying among Christians :)
A twenty year old video clip?
Well done.
I believe the European model may mean that man and wife don’t divorce, but may stay together for the sake of the family while agreeing to take lovers.
I don’t know how often the wife takes a lover, and what happens if she falls pregnant by him. But for the husband to take a mistress, even fairly openly, to the point where the wife and the mistress become friends over managing the same man, is not unheard of. I have some family from France, who find it odd that American politicians can’t openly have a wife and a mistress.
These days, of course, skipping the wife and just keeping the mistress is also an option. I think some British politicians have done that.
Just a funny story that I feel like telling.
Years ago my husband, kids and I were sharing a cabin with my folks. We were watching some mini-series with Jason Robarbs, who had a wife and a mistress (Rebecca De Mornay). The mistress was obviously living very well.
My husband turned to my mom and said, “Good Lord, how much money do you need to make to afford a mistress?”
pause
“You don’t know how hard it is to find a hot mistress willing to live on a budget. Thank God it’s not as hard to find a hot wife willing to do so.”
Wink and a nod to me.
My mom was wrapped pretty tight on all things moral, but she laughed at that story til she died.
There is a track record on this. Did Trump ever mention regret for any past discrepancies (like the grabbing tape)? To my knowledge he has not. He has also publicly stated that he believes he has not made any mistakes and thus does not need to ask for forgiveness nor repent.
Needless to say it’s quite arrogant to presume that one never makes mistakes. After all several people on this thread were making that very charge against Spin.
My earlier comment was personal experience. You said why would it be hard. I spent most of my young life pursuing God and not much else. It led to alienation and loneliness. No one wants to be friends with goody-two-shoes, no matter how earnest she is.
Well, I was being facetious, of course. If I were actually better than everyone else, it’d be great,
I have no idea what your personal story is, but I know that Christ says to seek His kingdom first, and everything else shall be added unto you. Of course, for many of us seeking God really means trying to follow a bunch of rules in hopes that we’ll be good enough for God to love us. That’s a recipe for…well…bad stuff.