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Teacher Pay In Arizona, Is It Too Low?
An Arizona teacher in her own words:
I’ve debated about posting this but in the end want to show what a teaching salary really looks like in Az. This is my new pay after taking a few professional development classes…I actually laughed when I saw the old salary vs. the new one. I mean really, I need a college degree to make this? I paid 80,000 for a college degree, I then paid several hundred more to transfer my certification to Az. I buy every roll of tape I use, every paper clip I use, every sharpie I grade with, every snack I feed kids who don’t have them, every decorated bulletin board, the list could go on. I love teaching! BUT…the reality is without my husband’s income I could NEVER be an educator in this state! I’m sad for my single mom teacher friends working 3 jobs to make ends meet! Something must be done…otherwise our poor children will be taught by unqualified, burned out, and just plain bad teachers! P.S.No one goes into teaching for the money, by all means…but we do need to eat and have a home! #RedforEd#Azwakeupandmakesomechanges
It has been brought to my attention that the issue date says 1998…this is NOT a pay stub from then… that is the date my teaching certificate was issued and I graduated from college! I assure you this is my salary for next year!!!
The median income in Arizona is $53,558, her salary is well below the median income, and so I believe she is underpaid. There are some other issues concerning her wages.
I’ll start with parents. There is no reason that this teacher should be paying for snacks for her students, or paying for any other item that a student might need. Many parents look at school as day care. Day care that includes teachers covering the cost, or taxpayer’s paying for their child’s lunches, and their personal school supplies.
The next problem concerns the school board. The time has come for outside auditors to examine their spending. Parents have no control over how their money is spent. It should come as no surprise that when the only tax that a voter has any say in, tax property bond measures concerning schools, the answer is usually no. The next question should be how many administrators does your school district need, and how much are they paid.
Teachers unions are another problem. Are they fighting merit pay, or is their time spent protecting incompetent teachers. How much are teachers paying in union dues, which are siphoned off to write checks to politicians? How much are you as a teacher paying your union leadership?
Finally, how much she spent, or how she financed her education is not my problem or any other taxpayer’s problem. There is no doubt in my mind that to obtain a teaching certificate those who wish to teach have to pay for worthless educational theory courses. Yes, they’re expensive, and they come at the expense of courses necessary that apply to the subject matter that they wish to teach.
I still believe this teacher is underpaid.
Published in General
Ah, the SouthLand Urban Transit. I was stationed at D-M from 2011 to 2014 and enjoyed listening to John Justice as I got ready for work. Come downtown to ride the S.L.U.T.
I agree with that, but it’s pretty difficult (i.e. impossible) to do that with a formula. And when a system gets big it’s going to get bureaucratic. Unions are a part of that, but more of an effect than the cause. When contracts are negotiated, formulas will be the result. And formulas will be inefficient and abused.
So instead of a collective “we” doing it, the “we” needs to let go and allow it to be a community “they.” And the smaller the community, the better (up to a point).
I see a lot of grumbling from Tucson teachers. I wonder if that has to do with the mix of kids or the taxes. Tucson has lots of retirees and military families who probably aren’t that enthusiastic about high property taxes to fund schools for kids that aren’t ours. I have friends in Tucson who raised three great boys but they went to Catholic schools.
The CATO institute estimated years ago that LA Unified spends $29k per student per year K-12. Someone I know worked with Dick Reardon more recently trying to similarly estimate the cost; he said the accounting methods and books of LA Unified were so complicated and poorly done that it was impossible to come up with a number.
Let’s lowball it at $20k. 20 students x $20k is $400k. Where is all that money going after the teacher’s salary is paid ?
I refuse to vote for any increased spending for anything in my local school district. They have plenty of money, they’ll never spend it responsibly if they keep getting handed more and more
Exactly! If I thought existing money was being spent wisely I would be more than willing to pay more. Of course we can say that about all taxes.
I will be forever grateful that we were able to send our 4 to Catholic school.
About five years ago I was out drinking with some members of our school board. They admitted (after a few) that 50% of the students are just getting free daycare, 25% should be in jail and 25% get a good education.
I’ve got many nieces and nephews that fall into the “good education” camp. They did well on their SATs and well in college – some extremely so. With only one exception, they are incapable of any sort of critical thinking; for instance the pay gap. It’s not just that they believe it exists because of gender discrimination, they literally can’t process the multitude of factors that come into play to understand why it exists.
I shudder to think what California would be like without Prop 13 (may the memory of Howard Jarvis be a blessing). My prop taxes are about $5k per year; without Prop 13 they would be at least $10k.
Of course, talk to any teacher or any administrator and they’ll claim that Prop 13 is the reason test scores are going down, blah blah blah.
When I was in HS I had a couple of teachers (English and History) who explicitly told us they were trying to teach us critical thinking. I guess that doesn’t happen much any more.
I see little evidence.
My mother taught me critical thinking. When I applied it in school, I was always asked for a source.
Independent thought requires a doctorate.
The lack of accountability, and everyone’s new favorite term “transparency”, when it comes to school spending is a big problem. Golden parachutes for executives that lose their jobs in the private sector is not an uncommon practice when school administrators lose their jobs.
Just as a side note when I witnessed the Mt. St. Helens eruption pyroclastic flow became my favorite phrase, transparency is a close second, collusion is third on my list.
I think the “good education” number might be a bit high. My grandkids were in public schools in Mission Viejo, a very high end OC suburb where houses are almost $1 million average for single family. My grandson’s math teacher told his mother that she could not do the 4th grade math problems sing Common Core Math. She suggested his mother teach him at home using traditional math.
The kids are now in a charter school and much happier.
I wish I could send them all to the private school I sent their father but it is now $25,000 per year per student. It was about $300/ month when I sent him there. He graduated in a high school class of 25, most of whom are still life long friends.
Their mother would probably do better home schooling them but she runs a very successful business from home.
A lot of smart kids would do well no matter what the school.
You underestimate. In 1978, before Prop 13, a friend had bought a house for $250,000. His taxes were $7,000. That was in Laguna Niguel where $250k would not buy a one bedroom condo today.
I don’t think all public school teachers are enamored with Common Core methods. When Common Core was first rolled out Catholic schools were not buying into the program.
Common Core math is interesting, at least in the beginning it wasn’t finding the right answer that mattered, it was the method you used to come up with the wrong answer that mattered. My advice would be to not drive across a bridge that an engineer designed who excelled in Common Core Mathematics.
I think she was saying the teacher was unable (lacked know-how) to teach common core and passed the baton to the parent at home.
Common core math is interesting and I kinda like it. K-level has been some fun, though I dislike the book’s formatting.
It’s more manipulative math in the beginning. Judging by the books I have sent home with my kids, our school isn’t widely using it, though.
I have the CC workbooks at home.
You are correct. What I should have said is that anyone buying my house now would pay about $10K.
I found my mother’s housing payments. Her house payment was $187/month. Her taxes before Prop 13 were over $2,000/year. Prop taxes were supposed to be based upon home valuation, which was arbitrary. If the state/muni needed more money, they simply raised your valuation and your taxes.
$250K would not buy you a garage now in Laguna Niguel.
I agree with this. My town borders Arcadia, which has a world famous school system. I have friends who have seen advertisements for it in China. I don’t know the percentage of Asian students, but it’s very, very high.
Arcadia is now too pricey for even well-to-do people and we’re catching the spill over in Monrovia. It’s no wonder our test scores are improving.
As an aside, my kids’ Catholic school also had its share of Asian students. Son #3 was competing against a little girl to see who first would first pass their “times table test”. (He was not in the least competitive, I’ve never understood why it was so important to him. But that award stayed on his bedroom wall through high school)
Anyway, on the day he won, his exact comment to me was, “I won! I beat *****! And she goes to two schools; I barely go to one.”
People with an affinity for math break numbers down to manipulate them, usually by place values or common factors. These shortcuts can make mental math practical, and permits rapid non-precise estimation. Common Core math attempts to teach these shortcuts to everyone. Unfortunately, not everyone can really do this, but political correctness (and outright progressive ignorance) doesn’t let it be said in a teaching environment.
The traditional method of teaching math facts by drilling, drilling, and drilling some more, delivers basic skills to everyone. Along the way, those blessed with the cognitive pathways will notice the underlying patterns in the drills and start outperforming their peers. Once the basics are drilled in, a few more peers can be prompted to notice the patterns, too, though they generally won’t be as proficient as those who noticed on their own. But everyone ends up able to do basic math. Not so with Common Core.
Anyways, Common Core math is just another progressive reversal of cause and effect, in their endless crusade to establish equality of outcomes. It reminds of the progressive efforts to get the poor to buy a home to make them middle class, instead of recognizing that owning a home is a common choice for those who earn their place in the middle class. (Owning a home is a terrible burden on a person without the means to maintain it — progressives are doing no favors to the recipients of home-buying assistance.)
I need a copy of that poster of Nathan Hale saying, “I regret that I have but one like to give.”
What you have proposed is a common core. Unfortunately, Common Core includes a lot more rind, bruised flesh, and apple-picking machinery than core.
Are you suggesting anything about this Bridge ?
Maybe that explains it.
I also like Dennis Prager’s book “Think a Second Time”.
Not only that, it’s trying to write down into English personal mental process, by people who probably have trouble expressing things in writing in the first place. I like to think I’m good at math, but even I was having trouble getting it, until I understood what they were actually trying to express.
I’ve stolen it from another Ricochet member, you can too:
The Common Core math is probably fun for college math majors playing around with number theory and sets. The trouble is that kids learn to read by phonics and math by repetition. Teachers with Ed degrees are bored by that.
The other things that are not factored into this conversation are the pension and benefits that teachers earn. Gross salary doesn’t reflect this. The health coverage, while shrinking and getting more expensive (whose isn’t?), is still better than most except maybe the largest businesses or other government units benefits. Also, teacher retirement pensions and retiree health insurance are still better than most private sector jobs. Those pensions are still defined benefits with a guaranteed payment for the rest of your life. The rest of us hope our 401k lasts as long as we do. I get tired of hearing teachers and retired teachers gripe about salary and benefits! Those things may not be quite as golden as in the past, but they are still a darn sight better than what most employees have access to. Based on my experience, the very best teaching job for salary and benefits is to teach in a federal prison. Federal salary, federal Blue Cross Blue Shield and generous time credits toward retirement.
As to cost of college to become a teacher, you should always choose the cheapest school. If you go to community college and a regional university (which are often just renamed and expanded teacher’s colleges anyway), you should come out way less than 80K. I went to a private university for grad school and I always thought the education majors I met were silly for choosing to go to a private school for an undergrad degree in education. As discussed, the step program salary schedules for educators in school districts do not take into account the reputation of the conferring university so you get paid the same whether you went to South Central Louisiana State University or Columbia Teachers’ College.
I’ve been thinking about this post all evening. The free market approach, the comments saying “Well, she gets aid what the market will bear”, etc. haven’t sat well with me, and I couldn’t figure out why. But then it hit me. We aren’t talking about the free market, here.
See, the consumer doesn’t pay for the service. Now, don’t jump on me: I know the tax payer foots most of the bill. The point is, the consumer (that’s the parents) don’t pay for the service directly, they have a limited ability to “shop” for the best product, there is no profit motive, and there is no accountability to the consumer. That’s why the free market approach doesn’t work.
If each of us went and found a teacher to teach our kids, we’d shop around, get recommendations, and buy the best teacher we could afford. We could evaluate the performance very quickly, and we’d only pay for the level of service we wanted. None of that happens, and so it’s broken.
Claiming things are equal is just a way to dodge the fact that systemic patriarchal bias means that F makes 25% less than ma.
Nonsense. Many teachers claim to be trying to teach critical thinking.
I wonder if the teacher in question is from the left, or from the right? Because if she’s from the left, I simply say: from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs.
I wrote this a few years back. Our problem with schools in AZ is difficult, and teacher pay has little to do with it.