Teacher Pay In Arizona, Is It Too Low?

 

An Arizona teacher in her own words:

I’ve debated about posting this but in the end want to show what a teaching salary really looks like in Az. This is my new pay after taking a few professional development classes…I actually laughed when I saw the old salary vs. the new one. I mean really, I need a college degree to make this? I paid 80,000 for a college degree, I then paid several hundred more to transfer my certification to Az. I buy every roll of tape I use, every paper clip I use, every sharpie I grade with, every snack I feed kids who don’t have them, every decorated bulletin board, the list could go on. I love teaching! BUT…the reality is without my husband’s income I could NEVER be an educator in this state! I’m sad for my single mom teacher friends working 3 jobs to make ends meet! Something must be done…otherwise our poor children will be taught by unqualified, burned out, and just plain bad teachers! P.S.No one goes into teaching for the money, by all means…but we do need to eat and have a home! #RedforEd#Azwakeupandmakesomechanges

It has been brought to my attention that the issue date says 1998…this is NOT a pay stub from then… that is the date my teaching certificate was issued and I graduated from college! I assure you this is my salary for next year!!!

The median income in Arizona is $53,558, her salary is well below the median income, and so I believe she is underpaid. There are some other issues concerning her wages.

I’ll start with parents. There is no reason that this teacher should be paying for snacks for her students, or paying for any other item that a student might need. Many parents look at school as day care. Day care that includes teachers covering the cost, or taxpayer’s paying for their child’s lunches, and their personal school supplies.

The next problem concerns the school board. The time has come for outside auditors to examine their spending. Parents have no control over how their money is spent. It should come as no surprise that when the only tax that a voter has any say in, tax property bond measures concerning schools, the answer is usually no. The next question should be how many administrators does your school district need, and how much are they paid.

Teachers unions are another problem. Are they fighting merit pay, or is their time spent protecting incompetent teachers. How much are teachers paying in union dues, which are siphoned off to write checks to politicians? How much are you as a teacher paying your union leadership?

Finally, how much she spent, or how she financed her education is not my problem or any other taxpayer’s problem. There is no doubt in my mind that to obtain a teaching certificate those who wish to teach have to pay for worthless educational theory courses. Yes, they’re expensive, and they come at the expense of courses necessary that apply to the subject matter that they wish to teach.

I still believe this teacher is underpaid.

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  1. MBF Inactive
    MBF
    @MBF

    If they posted an opening at her school tomorrow how many applicants would they get? That’s your first clue as to whether she’s underpaid or not. In my area there’s plenty of suburban districts that could post a job at $35k (plus benefits, which are almost universally more generous than the median) and get 100+ applications.

    • #1
  2. Mike-K Member
    Mike-K
    @

    I would like to know much more about this. I moved to Arizona full time last year but have been spending a lot of time here for years. My youngest daughter graduated from U of A and her tuition went up 30% while she was in school. I was paying nonresident tuition even though we paid property taxes. The quality of the education, at least in her general ed classes was left wing crap. For example, her final study guide for “US History Since 1877” included the information that “The Silent Majority” of the 1960s was made up of white people who refused to accept the 1964 Civil Rights Act. No mention of Nixon or Vietnam. Her major was OK.

    Facebook is full of angry teachers complaining to the governor and my Congresswoman, Martha McSally,  about their salary. What do they have to do with it ? Talk to the Legislature and the School Board.

    I have been told that Arizona teachers are not unionized. Not true ?

    I wonder how many Tucson school kids are ESL with nonEnglish speaking parents ?

    The administrator question is a good one. What about federal mandates ?

    My kids are grown and my grandkids are in California. I would send them all to private school, as I did their parents but can’t afford it anymore.

    I have friends in Tucson who sent their kids to Catholic school.

    • #2
  3. Z in MT Member
    Z in MT
    @ZinMT

    MBF (View Comment):
    If they posted an opening at her school tomorrow how many applicants would they get? That’s your first clue as to whether she’s underpaid or not. In my area there’s plenty of suburban districts that could post a job at $35k (plus benefits, which are almost universally more generous than the median) and get 100+ applications.

    Exactly. Teachers seem to think they are immune from market forces.

    Also, this is for 9 months. Pro-rated for 12 months this is a salary of $46.7K

    Also, from what I have observed one of the big problems with public school teacher pay is that the range can be quite large. I am guessing that this teacher has only been in AZ school’s a couple years. I am guessing that the teacher in the class room next to hers that is near the end of her 30 year career is making >$70K.

    • #3
  4. Jimmy Carter Member
    Jimmy Carter
    @JimmyCarter

    Doug Watt: I still believe this teacher is underpaid.

    There was an opening for a position. She applied for that position. They both agreed upon the compensation or She wouldn’t have the position. Therefore, She is paid the proper amount.

    • #4
  5. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    Mike-K (View Comment):
    I would like to know much more about this. I moved to Arizona full time last year but have been spending a lot of time here for years. My youngest daughter graduated from U of A and her tuition went up 30% while she was in school. I was paying nonresident tuition even though we paid property taxes. The quality of the education, at least in her general ed classes was left wing crap. For example, her final study guide for “US History Since 1877” included the information that “The Silent Majority” of the 1960s was made up of white people who refused to accept the 1964 Civil Rights Act. No mention of Nixon or Vietnam. Her major was OK.

    Facebook is full of angry teachers complaining to the governor and my Congresswoman, Martha McSally, about their salary. What do they have to do with it ? Talk to the Legislature and the School Board.

    I have been told that Arizona teachers are not unionized. Not true ?

    I wonder how many Tucson school kids are ESL with nonEnglish speaking parents ?

    The administrator question is a good one. What about federal mandates ?

    My kids are grown and my grandkids are in California. I would send them all to private school, as I did their parents but can’t afford it anymore.

    I have friends in Tucson who sent their kids to Catholic school.

    Public school teachers are unionized in Arizona. The Arizona Teachers Union. I don’t know if they are affiliated with a national organization. They do endorse political candidates.

    Private schools are a better option. When parents write a check to a private school they have much more input on what goes on. Private schools can also count on parent involvement. If a student is too disruptive out the door they go.

    • #5
  6. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    Left unsaid in her Facebook post is has she been teaching in Arizona without a break in her career since 1998. She was certified as a teacher in Arizona in 1998.

    • #6
  7. JustmeinAZ Member
    JustmeinAZ
    @JustmeinAZ

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    Left unsaid in her Facebook post is has she been teaching in Arizona without a break in her career since 1998. She was certified as a teacher in Arizona in 1998.

    Very hard to believe that she has been teaching for 20 yrs and makes $35K. If so, her bad for not finding a better career. Also, it’s her problem that she paid 80K for school. I’m not entirely cold hearted – I suspect that there are half again as many administrators in the school district as are really needed. Which is also part of the reason why college tuition is so high. And Tucson spends way too much money on useless crap – like a downtown streetcar line. I could go on.

    Gotta go take my blood pressure meds.

    • #7
  8. Doug Kimball Thatcher
    Doug Kimball
    @DougKimball

    I have a dog in this fight; my wife is a public school teacher in AZ.  On those who like to point to the 9 mos. thing; my wife spends much of her “free” time in summer planning for the following year.  She is a high school music director, so she spends time selecting and often arranging music for her choirs for the four annual concerts in the upcoming year.  She also selects and arranges music for her jazz and madrigal choirs (after school subsets of her two large choirs) for various festivals and competitions (three weekends a year.) She also selects music for each voice type for the regional and all-state competitions (four weekends a year) so that the kids can begin learning the pieces (after school tutoring) early in the year.  She prepares a few lesson plans for those days she might be sick or off in competitions or auditions and must employ a sub for her choirs and her piano classes.  She spends a week or two in her room, cleaning, decorating, fixing risers and instruments, organizing.  This year we went through new concert uniform selection, a never ending nightmarish ordeal.  During the school year she rarely gets home before 7:00 and spends many weekends at events, competitions and as a “Guest” adjudicator or conductor.  She takes the kids to the regional auditions on select Saturdays and stays with the winners throughout the weekend of practice and performance as a “helper.”  A couple of time a year she takes one of her choirs to perform for “feeder” middle school programs.  They always perform at a few retirement homes and hospitals, usually over the holidays.  They perform at meet-ur teacher night, at freshman orientation night.  Her kids open every home football and basketball game, sometimes in small groups and sometimes solo, with the national anthem and she stays with them.  9She helps theM rehearse those gigs as well.)  I can’t tell you how much time she spends on weekends at the kitchen table catching up on the grading of tests and papers (I get roped into helping her.) She teaches well over 200 kids and they all must be graded.

    She quite literally works until she falls asleep.   I work hard, but when I leave my office, I’m done.  She is in motion, on the job, constantly.

    BYW, I buy instruments, supplies and music for her kids.  I also max out my AZ tax credit ($400) which I donate.  I am her AV guy and record all her concerts for her on video.

    Her job is incredibly difficult, consuming, demanding and underappreciated.  A full time job consists of 1960-2080 hours per year.  I’ll bet my wife doubles that.  Other teachers may not be quite as dedicated as my wife is, but they all certainly work as many hours as any full time job requires.

    So let’s put a stake in the heart of that that part-time bromide, please.  Teachers work very hard and many hours.  Their work year may have gaps, but they make up for that in uncompensated OT and then some.

    • #8
  9. Doug Kimball Thatcher
    Doug Kimball
    @DougKimball

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Mike-K (View Comment):
    I would like to know much more about this. I moved to Arizona full time last year but have been spending a lot of time here for years. My youngest daughter graduated from U of A and her tuition went up 30% while she was in school. I was paying nonresident tuition even though we paid property taxes. The quality of the education, at least in her general ed classes was left wing crap. For example, her final study guide for “US History Since 1877” included the information that “The Silent Majority” of the 1960s was made up of white people who refused to accept the 1964 Civil Rights Act. No mention of Nixon or Vietnam. Her major was OK.

    Facebook is full of angry teachers complaining to the governor and my Congresswoman, Martha McSally, about their salary. What do they have to do with it ? Talk to the Legislature and the School Board.

    I have been told that Arizona teachers are not unionized. Not true ?

    I wonder how many Tucson school kids are ESL with nonEnglish speaking parents ?

    The administrator question is a good one. What about federal mandates ?

    My kids are grown and my grandkids are in California. I would send them all to private school, as I did their parents but can’t afford it anymore.

    I have friends in Tucson who sent their kids to Catholic school.

    Public school teachers are unionized in Arizona. The Arizona Teachers Union. I don’t know if they are affiliated with a national organization. They do endorse political candidates.

    Private schools are a better option. When parents write a check to a private school they have much more input on what goes on. Private schools can also count on parent involvement. If a student is too disruptive out the door they go.

    Most if not all teachers in AZ opt out of the Union.  Most have separate contracts.  Being in the Union is not a requirement.

    • #9
  10. Doug Kimball Thatcher
    Doug Kimball
    @DougKimball

    JustmeinAZ (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    Left unsaid in her Facebook post is has she been teaching in Arizona without a break in her career since 1998. She was certified as a teacher in Arizona in 1998.

    Very hard to believe that she has been teaching for 20 yrs and makes $35K. If so, her bad for not finding a better career. Also, it’s her problem that she paid 80K for school. I’m not entirely cold hearted – I suspect that there are half again as many administrators in the school district as are really needed. Which is also part of the reason why college tuition is so high. And Tucson spends way too much money on useless crap – like a downtown streetcar line. I could go on.

    Gotta go take my blood pressure meds.

    The downtown streetcar line was funded in great part by Obamamoney from the feds.

    • #10
  11. JustmeinAZ Member
    JustmeinAZ
    @JustmeinAZ

    Doug Kimball (View Comment):
    The downtown streetcar line was funded in great part by Obamamoney from the feds.

    Whatever part Tucson paid for was too much. I am very grumpy today.

    • #11
  12. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    Thanks @dougkimball for weighing-in there are two sides to this story.

    • #12
  13. sawatdeeka Member
    sawatdeeka
    @sawatdeeka

    Doug Kimball (View Comment):
    So let’s put a stake in the heart of that that part-time bromide, please. Teachers work very hard and many hours. Their work year may have gaps, but they make up for that in uncompensated OT and then some.

    Yep.

    • #13
  14. Juliana Member
    Juliana
    @Juliana

    Teacher salaries are public information. Here is a link to the pay schedule for the Tuscon Unified School District. The starting pay is $32,300 plus $3,600 for classroom site funding (not sure what this is) contingent upon legislative approval. But if you look at the contract (consensus agreement), it is quite complex and there seem to be a lot of ways to increase the base salary. For example, if you hold a master’s degree you add an additional $2000.

    http://www.tusd1.org/Departments/Human-Resources/Certified-Pay-Schedule

    In my district (MN) the step and lane pay schedule (step is years of experience, lane is amount of education you have) goes to Masters + 60 hours and up to 15 years of experience. Someone at the farthest lane and 15 years  could earn $90,000 per year (minus $900 per year union dues for all members regardless of your salary). The AZ contract has 81 steps, so I’m not sure how the actual salary is calculated. If she has truly been there for 20 years, the $35,621 does not seem accurate.

    I’m not a teacher, but I am covered by their bargaining unit and contract. I have seen most teachers work very hard, above and beyond their contracted hours. (How long do you think it would take you to correct 150 to 200 three page research papers?) I have also seen teachers ‘run out the clock’ by using years-old lessons and clearly demonstrating their loss of enthusiasm for the job. Add in the pressures from admin to do more with less, stuff a few more kids into already full classrooms, and deal with the societal breakdown in the form of mental health issues and a lack of respect from students for any type of authority and I would say that we may not be far away from a teacher shortage. In the last few years I have personally known several promising teachers with around 3-5 years of experience just chuck it all and get out of education. I’m not sure an increase in salary will be enough to draw and keep good teachers.

    • #14
  15. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    By the way here is a link to administrator salaries, and teacher salaries in Arizona. The median income is not the same in every county, I presented an average in my essay. There is quite a large disparity between teacher pay, and administrator pay.

    • #15
  16. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Juliana (View Comment):
    I have also seen teachers ‘run out the clock’ by using years-old lessons and clearly demonstrating their loss of enthusiasm for the job.

    A lot of that would seem to depend on what subject you are teaching. F has equaled ma for a while now.

    • #16
  17. sawatdeeka Member
    sawatdeeka
    @sawatdeeka

    sawatdeeka (View Comment):

    Doug Kimball (View Comment):
    So let’s put a stake in the heart of that that part-time bromide, please. Teachers work very hard and many hours. Their work year may have gaps, but they make up for that in uncompensated OT and then some.

    Yep.

    At the very least, the work very hard part.

    • #17
  18. Mike-K Member
    Mike-K
    @

    Juliana (View Comment):
    I have also seen teachers ‘run out the clock’ by using years-old lessons and clearly demonstrating their loss of enthusiasm for the job.

    That is probably more common than the account of being a music teacher.

    My ex-wife (divorced 40 years ago) had a lifetime teaching credential in California. Back in the 90s, she got laid off in a bank merger. She had been a VP in mortgage banking. She decided to take up Pete Wilson when he was trying to reduce class size by hiring more teachers. She went back as a long term sub. They had to take a test called CBEST, which she said was an 8th grade level exam. Of course, there was a big fuss in the LA Times about it being “racist” etc.

    She taught 3rd grade for about 6 months until she got another bank job.

    She was appalled at what she saw. The teachers did not care about the kids. She was in a middle class district east of LA not inner city. They would make fun of them in the teacher room. She told one 2nd grade teacher that she was doing a good job getting kids ready to read.

    The woman burst into tears. No one had ever complimented her.

    My ex was glad to get back to banking.

    • #18
  19. Phil Turmel Inactive
    Phil Turmel
    @PhilTurmel

    Doug Watt: The median income in Arizona is $53,558, her salary is well below the median income, and so I believe she is underpaid.

    She may be underpaid, but that isn’t a reason. That’s just an observation.  I hope you realize that if she were paid more than the median, someone else is going to be pushed below the median.  Median just means half of all people are above or below that line.

    However, I don’t think she’s overpaid.  As others have noted, if the position can be filled at a given salary, it is an abuse of the taxpayers to pay more.  If there’s too many teachers bidding on the jobs available at those pay levels, that means the combination of working conditions and pay is considered appropriate by enough teachers to make that the market value.  It seems to me that this woman is unsuited to this career and needs to admit it to herself.  Which will also make way for someone better suited to take that job.

    • #19
  20. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Juliana (View Comment):
    promising teachers with around 3-5 years of experience just chuck it all and get out of education.

    This is a significant problem. Teachers are not staying long enough to become true master teachers. And too often, those least effective in the classroom jump into the administrative track early on, then presume to lead a team of staff in a task they never mastered.

    It is a house of cards…

    • #20
  21. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    I used to work with our local teachers’ union in their political efforts to get more money into our school budgets. I would never do so again. I discovered that the unions in my school district set the salary and benefit bands such that the new teachers were making much less than the older teachers. Whenever the unions needed rabble rousers, they used the new teachers because, frankly, they had a legitimate complaint with their salary in relation to what other teachers were making in our district. And if we had to cut teachers, the new (and sometimes better) teachers were cut first. We had no say in this selection process at all. Teachers need to look into how their salaries are set by their own school district.

    That said, every school district is competing against every other school district for teachers. And that’s the way it should be. School districts have to pay what other surrounding school districts are paying to attract and keep their good teachers. Without good teachers, you might as well close up the schools. The good teachers, especially through middle school, are the ones who have good relationships with the kids, relationships based on mutual trust and respect. Those teachers are essential in inspiring the kids to do the work of learning.

    There is no one more important, no one who does more good, in our communities than our top teachers.

     

     

    • #21
  22. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    here’s a concept.  Let’s bring in illegals immigrants and H1Bs to do these teachers jobs that Americans just do not want to do.  That way teachers can be like the rest of us and get even less salary than they already get.

    • #22
  23. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Doug Kimball (View Comment):
    I have a dog in this fight; my wife is a public school teacher in AZ. On those who like to point to the 9 mos. thing; my wife spends much of her “free” time in summer planning for the following year. She is a high school music director, so she spends time selecting and often arranging music for her choirs for the four annual concerts in the upcoming year. She also selects and arranges music for her jazz and madrigal choirs (after school subsets of her two large choirs) for various festivals and competitions (three weekends a year.) She also selects music for each voice type for the regional and all-state competitions (four weekends a year) so that the kids can begin learning the pieces (after school tutoring) early in the year. Se prepares a few lesson plans for those days she might be sick or off in competitions or auditions and must employ a sub for her choirs and her piano classes. She spends a week or two in her room, cleaning, decorating, fixing risers and instruments, organizing. This year we went through new concert uniform selection, a never ending nightmarish ordeal. During the school year she rarely gets home before 7:00 and spends many weekends at events, competitions and as a “Guest” adjudicator or conductor. She takes the kids to the regional auditions on select Saturdays and stays with the winners throughout the weekend of practice and performance as a “helper.” A couple of time a year she takes one of her choirs to perform for “feeder” middle school programs. They always perform at a few retirement homes and hospitals, usually over the holidays. They perform at meet-ur teacher night, at freshman orientation night. Her kids open every home football and basketball game, sometimes in small groups and sometimes solo, with the national anthem and she stays with them. 9She helps theM rehearse those gigs as well.) I can’t tell you how much time she spends on weekends at the kitchen table catching up on the grading of tests and papers (I get roped into helping her.) She teaches well over 200 kids and they all must be graded.

    She quite literally works until she falls asleep. I work hard, but when I leave my office, I’m done. She is in motion, on the job, constantly.

    -snip

    Her job is incredibly difficult, consuming, demanding and underappreciated. A full time job consists of 1960-2080 hours per year. -snip

    So let’s put a stake in the heart of that that part-time bromide, please. Teachers work very hard and many hours. Their work year may have gaps, but they make up for that in uncompensated OT and then some.

    Some teachers do. I’ve had / have several friends whose work habits as public teachers I have witnessed; their days and months bear no resemblance to your wife’s

     

    • #23
  24. Vectorman Inactive
    Vectorman
    @Vectorman

    Juliana (View Comment):
    n my district (MN) the step and lane pay schedule (step is years of experience, lane is amount of education you have) goes to Masters + 60 hours and up to 15 years of experience. Someone at the farthest lane and 15 years could earn $90,000 per year (minus $900 per year union dues for all members regardless of your salary).

    In Illinois, the numbers can be even higher. At my wife’s Catholic High School, there is about a  50% rate increase (from ~30K to 45K) between a new teacher to a 20 year experience teacher. And she earns extra money for sponsoring the Key Club, running the Math department, etc.

    MarciN (View Comment):
    I discovered that the unions in my school district set the salary and benefit bands such that the new teachers were making much less than the older teachers. Whenever the unions needed rabble rousers, they used the new teachers because, frankly, they had a legitimate complaint with their salary in relation to what other teachers were making in our district. And if we had to cut teachers, the new (and sometimes better) teachers were cut first.

    Unions are not a good idea for teaching – are experienced teachers really worth over 50% more? In some subjects, such as Math and Science, the answer might be yes, but why should students suffer with bad teachers anytime?

    • #24
  25. ChrisShearer Coolidge
    ChrisShearer
    @ChrisShearer

    2 comments (Note: I live in AZ, all my kids went to public schools, I have several teacher friends)

    1.  In spite of the emotional appeal of hard working teachers getting low pay there is little correlation between total per pupil dollars spent and educational outcomes.
    2. Mr. Kimball, your wife is an example of why you don’t have to pay more for good teachers.  I assume she teaches for reason beyond the pay.  I have friends who are missionaries in Africa.  Both are highly educated professional who now earn little.  They would have no other life.  Are they underpaid?  Please don’t misunderstand me, I applaud your wife’s dedication but it sounds like she does it for more than just the pay.
    • #25
  26. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    The money that actually goes into classrooms is some fraction of what is collected by property taxes.

    I don’t think teachers, at this point, want a raise in taxes as much as they want to see the money promised them come their way. I know a couple teachers and that seems to be their biggest frustration.

    If it’s true, that after all building costs and reasonable administration costs are accounted for, that they are actually getting a fraction of what should be allotted per student, then I think it could be winning issue, politically.

    • #26
  27. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Former Lutheran elementary school teacher here, from a life long, long ago.

    I don’t know how Arizona’s K-12 system is financed, but I’ll bet if I dug into it I’d say that if Arizona broke up its big schools and decentralized its system, returning power and most financing to the local communities, giving more power and responsibility to the classroom teachers, and more power over hiring and firing to the parents, then I would also favor higher salaries for teachers.

    The problem with that is as someone else noted, people at the local level will strike back at government where they have some influence, which is at the local level.  Which means they will give up their influence in order to save money through the promised (though never realized) benefits of scaling up, which will mean re-centralizing everything and turning teachers back into lackeys of the educational establishment.

    This is basically how the nation’s community schools got consolidated in the first place.

    • #27
  28. Songwriter Inactive
    Songwriter
    @user_19450

    Great post.  There are no simple answers, are there? It would seem the system is screwed up. But there is no easy fix for it.

     

     

    • #28
  29. Doug Kimball Thatcher
    Doug Kimball
    @DougKimball

    Juliana (View Comment):
    Teacher salaries are public information. Here is a link to the pay schedule for the Tuscon Unified School District. The starting pay is $32,300 plus $3,600 for classroom site funding (not sure what this is) contingent upon legislative approval. But if you look at the contract (consensus agreement), it is quite complex and there seem to be a lot of ways to increase the base salary. For example, if you hold a master’s degree you add an additional $2000.

    http://www.tusd1.org/Departments/Human-Resources/Certified-Pay-Schedule

    In my district (MN) the step and lane pay schedule (step is years of experience, lane is amount of education you have) goes to Masters + 60 hours and up to 15 years of experience. Someone at the farthest lane and 15 years could earn $90,000 per year (minus $900 per year union dues for all members regardless of your salary). The AZ contract has 81 steps, so I’m not sure how the actual salary is calculated. If she has truly been there for 20 years, the $35,621 does not seem accurate.

    I’m not a teacher, but I am covered by their bargaining unit and contract. I have seen most teachers work very hard, above and beyond their contracted hours. (How long do you think it would take you to correct 150 to 200 three page research papers?) I have also seen teachers ‘run out the clock’ by using years-old lessons and clearly demonstrating their loss of enthusiasm for the job. Add in the pressures from admin to do more with less, stuff a few more kids into already full classrooms, and deal with the societal breakdown in the form of mental health issues and a lack of respect from students for any type of authority and I would say that we may not be far away from a teacher shortage. In the last few years I have personally known several promising teachers with around 3-5 years of experience just chuck it all and get out of education. I’m not sure an increase in salary will be enough to draw and keep good teachers.

    In most districts, step increases have been suspended for several years.  Also, if you move from one district to the next, there is no requirement that the new district give you any credit for experience at another district.  You have to negotiate with them to arrive at an agreed upon “step.”  Most allow no more than 5 years of “accrued” tenure, so a 15 year teacher “loses” ten years with a move.  If your experience is not current (my wife taught for a few years when we first married, and again in the early 90s when I took a sabbatical from the corporate world) you will not get any credit at all.  When my wife went back to work she was forced into a “first year” position with a masters credit.  It paid less than $35K a year and the district had no money at all.  So if the teacher referenced moved from one district to another, she may well be paid the salary she cited.  Also, there is great disparity among school districts.  A poor rural district (low property tax contribution) could pay 10-20K less than an urban or suburban district for the same position with the same tenure and credentials.   Whey would a teacher move, you ask?  Because some districts are just plain awful for all the reasons you could surmise.

    • #29
  30. Doug Kimball Thatcher
    Doug Kimball
    @DougKimball

    ChrisShearer (View Comment):
    2 comments (Note: I live in AZ, all my kids went to public schools, I have several teacher friends)

    1. In spite of the emotional appeal of hard working teachers getting low pay there is little correlation between total per pupil dollars spent and educational outcomes.
    2. Mr. Kimball, your wife is an example of why you don’t have to pay more for good teachers. I assume she teaches for reason beyond the pay. I have friends who are missionaries in Africa. Both are highly educated professional who now earn little. They would have no other life. Are they underpaid? Please don’t misunderstand me, I applaud your wife’s dedication but it sounds like she does it for more than just the pay.

    CS – I was not arguing that my wife was underpaid.  I never once mentioned it.  Pay is obviously a small part in this equation for her at least. I was merely pointing out that teaching is not a part-time gig as some would imagine.  The good ones work extremely hard, put in many hours, even when the rest of us are watching “Hannity” late in the evening.  What we need to do is attract and keep teachers like my wife in the system.  That’s the key.  Too many get burnt out and move on.  Some districts in AZ doe a great job of retaining teachers; Kyrene Elementary and Middle Schools, Tempe High Schools, the Chandler Unified School District.  It’s competitive, but not just in terms of salary and benefits.  It’s about support from the community (boosters, volunteers), physical plant, administration, funding (other than compensation) and performance.  It’s also about demographics.  AZ’s school districts compete for the best teachers, which is as it should be.

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