Alabama Voters Don’t Need Insults

 

This from John Podhoretz is just one of many similar comments out there:

Similarly, if you believe America has rotted away morally, the idea you’d hand enormous political power to a morally rotted person like Roy Moore reveals your own spiritual and moral rot.

What is wrong with simply saying “I disagree with your decision to vote for Roy Moore?”

Alabama voters are between a rock and a hard place. It’s not entirely their fault since Moore’s peccadilloes weren’t known until it was too late to take him off the ballot. The “establishment” offering, Luther Strange, was scandal-tainted himself.

It is true that Moore’s refusal to step down does not speak well of his character either.

But if you vote for Roy Moore, do you become him? If you vote for Doug Jones, do you become an abortion-promoting leftist?

If character should always trump political considerations, what ‘s the right choice if it were Moore versus a scandal-free Nazi?

Alabama voters have a choice between a predator and a progressive. Please, cut them some slack.

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  1. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    thelonious (View Comment):
    Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin. Is that perverted? Or just sick and wrong?

    Traditional for poets?

    • #61
  2. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    BastiatJunior (View Comment):
    There was an election many years ago, between a corrupt politician (can’t remember the name or office) and David Duke.

    There were bumper stickers that said, “Vote for the crook. It’s important.”

    In 1991 Edwin Edwards defeated David Duke in the 1991 Louisiana Governor’s race, after President George H.W. Bush endorsed Edwards.

    Edwards was a crook.  In 2001 he was found guilty of racketeering charges and sentenced to ten years in Federal prison. Edwards began serving his sentence in October 2002 in Fort Worth, Texas, and was later transferred to the federal facility in Oakdale, Louisiana. Edwards was released from federal prison in January 2011, after serving eight years.

    Yes, I would have voted for the corrupt Edwin Edwards over David Duke.

    • #62
  3. Yudansha Member
    Yudansha
    @Yudansha

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    BastiatJunior (View Comment):
    There was an election many years ago, between a corrupt politician (can’t remember the name or office) and David Duke.

    There were bumper stickers that said, “Vote for the crook. It’s important.”

    In 1991 Edwin Edwards defeated David Duke in the 1991 Louisiana Governor’s race, after President George H.W. Bush endorsed Edwards.

    Edwards was a crook. In 2001 he was found guilty of racketeering charges and sentenced to ten years in Federal prison. Edwards began serving his sentence in October 2002 in Fort Worth, Texas, and was later transferred to the federal facility in Oakdale, Louisiana. Edwards was released from federal prison in January 2011, after serving eight years.

    Yes, I would have voted for the corrupt Edwin Edwards over David Duke.

    But there are Ricochetti who’d have voted for Grand Wizard Duke in that instance.  Because RINO!  Or something.

    • #63
  4. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    BastiatJunior (View Comment):
    There was an election many years ago, between a corrupt politician (can’t remember the name or office) and David Duke.

    There were bumper stickers that said, “Vote for the crook. It’s important.”

    In 1991 Edwin Edwards defeated David Duke in the 1991 Louisiana Governor’s race, after President George H.W. Bush endorsed Edwards.

    Edwards was a crook. In 2001 he was found guilty of racketeering charges and sentenced to ten years in Federal prison. Edwards began serving his sentence in October 2002 in Fort Worth, Texas, and was later transferred to the federal facility in Oakdale, Louisiana. Edwards was released from federal prison in January 2011, after serving eight years.

    Yes, I would have voted for the corrupt Edwin Edwards over David Duke.

    I even had the bumper sticker.  1/3 of my med school class voted for Duke though.

    • #64
  5. Al Kennedy Inactive
    Al Kennedy
    @AlKennedy

    EJHill (View Comment):
    Why outside groups get involved in primaries are beyond me. They usually stir up more resentment than add something positive to the conversation.

    @ejhill I agree with this.  But doesn’t Steve Bannon also count as an “outside group”.

    • #65
  6. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Al Kennedy: I agree with this. But doesn’t Steve Bannon also count as an “outside group”.

    Not if Moore hired him. Then he just works for the campaign.

    I refer to outside groups as anyone outside of the two campaigns and not based in the state in question.

    • #66
  7. FloppyDisk90 Member
    FloppyDisk90
    @FloppyDisk90

    BastiatJunior: It’s not entirely their fault since Moore’s peccadilloes weren’t known until it was too late to take him off the ballot.

    I beg to differ.  As David French over at NRO makes perfectly clear, there was a convincing case to be made against Moore far in advance of the primary.  This man was forcibly removed from office, twice.  That alone should have been enough info and the case against him goes much deeper.  Sadly, the sexual misconduct charges are providing cover for voters who would rather not deal with the more substantive issues.

    • #67
  8. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Unsk (View Comment):
    The charges against are specious and slanderous beyond the evidence.

    A. The one charge of sexual assault has been pretty thoroughly debunked.

    B. The other charges are that he dated 17 year olds, which may or may not be true. Gee, if dating a 17 year makes you a pervert that makes Seinfeld and Justice William O Douglas a pervert too! I believe the justice married a seventeen year old!

    The real issue here is whether the new Senator from Alabama will take on the GOP Establishment and it’s policy perversions. RINO’s, including John Podhoretz are aghast and frightened that someone would actually dare to represent the people instead of special interests, so they have resorted to slander, and thoroughly beclowned themselves.

    The more RINO’s say stupid stuff about Moore, the less credible they become. If you are more concerned about Roy Moore’s ethics and morals that the sleazy state of Washington DC’s corrupt rule, you are ethically and morally bankrupt. The pain and suffering the Washington elite is inflicting on their fellow Americans is just beyond the pale. No amount of highbrow, condescending rhetoric can change that.

    The primary reason to vote against Moore is that he was twice removed from the Alabama Supreme Court for not obeying higher courts.  The secondary reason to vote against Moore is that he is a Birther and Truther who agreed that we would be better off if all of the amendments after the 10th Amendment were repealed, which would have included the prohibition against slavery, blacks being able to vote and women being able to vote.  The tertiary reason to vote against Moore is his womanizing.

    • #68
  9. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    DocJay (View Comment):

    BastiatJunior (View Comment):
    There was an election many years ago, between a corrupt politician (can’t remember the name or office) and David Duke.

    There were bumper stickers that said, “Vote for the crook. It’s important.”

    I voted for him. Edwin Edwards. He is a pig but I helped stop Duke. I draw my bold line at Nazi.

    Thank you.

    • #69
  10. Al Kennedy Inactive
    Al Kennedy
    @AlKennedy

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Al Kennedy: I agree with this. But doesn’t Steve Bannon also count as an “outside group”.

    Not if Moore hired him. Then he just works for the campaign.

    I refer to outside groups as anyone outside of the two campaigns and not based in the state in question.

    @ejhill I can’t find any reference that Moore hired Bannon or is paying him.  Bloomberg’s long article makes it sound like Bannon intervened on his own volition.  Do you know if Moore’s campaign documents on financial expense indicate that Bannon is being paid?

    • #70
  11. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    FloppyDisk90 (View Comment):
    This man was forcibly removed from office, twice. That alone should have been enough info and the case against him goes much deeper.

    Now, we’re talking about real issues.

    • #71
  12. Guruforhire Inactive
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    I intend to give jpod the same consideration he intended to give other.

     

    • #72
  13. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    Arahant (View Comment):
    Okay, so he liked ’em young. An older man who could snag younger women used to be considered a lucky dog.

    When I was in *college,* any peer who dated a high school girl was considered a loser who couldn’t get the attention of his peers. “Boy, that lucky dog – he’s seeing someone inexperienced, emotionally undeveloped, intellectually unformed and unable to go out to the bars.”

    • #73
  14. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):
    Okay, so he liked ’em young. An older man who could snag younger women used to be considered a lucky dog.

    When I was in *college,* any peer who dated a high school girl was considered a loser who couldn’t get the attention of his peers. “Boy, that lucky dog – he’s seeing someone inexperienced, emotionally undeveloped, intellectually unformed and unable to go out to the bars.”

    I resemble that remark. I did nothing but date college aged guys when I was in high school. So that’s what all you jerks were saying behind my back? (think it made a difference that I looked about 30)?

     

    • #74
  15. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):
    Okay, so he liked ’em young. An older man who could snag younger women used to be considered a lucky dog.

    When I was in *college,* any peer who dated a high school girl was considered a loser who couldn’t get the attention of his peers. “Boy, that lucky dog – he’s seeing someone inexperienced, emotionally undeveloped, intellectually unformed and unable to go out to the bars.”

    My view of “used to be” goes back far before the day I was born. You should try it sometimes, James.

    • #75
  16. Weeping Inactive
    Weeping
    @Weeping

    thelonious (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    With respect to the semantics of perversion, I think the issue is the changing nature of the word.

    Are you saying the word pervert has been perverted?

    Yes. By modern sensibilities 40 years ago, maybe Moore’s tastes were controversial (see Jerry Lee Lewis), but not perverted.

    The first thing the Left does to destroy the old order is pervert language.

    Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin. Is that perverted? Or just sick and wrong?

    Acording to Wikipedia, it was a huge controversy at the time.

    • #76
  17. Doctor Bass Monkey Inactive
    Doctor Bass Monkey
    @WhiskeySam

    Weeping (View Comment):

    thelonious (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    With respect to the semantics of perversion, I think the issue is the changing nature of the word.

    Are you saying the word pervert has been perverted?

    Yes. By modern sensibilities 40 years ago, maybe Moore’s tastes were controversial (see Jerry Lee Lewis), but not perverted.

    The first thing the Left does to destroy the old order is pervert language.

    Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin. Is that perverted? Or just sick and wrong?

    Acording to Wikipedia, it was a huge controversy at the time.

    How much of that was because she was 13, how much because she was his cousin, and how much because it came out at the same time he was still married to another woman?  That was a perfect storm of caca.

    • #77
  18. Weeping Inactive
    Weeping
    @Weeping

    Doctor Bass Monkey (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):

    thelonious (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    With respect to the semantics of perversion, I think the issue is the changing nature of the word.

    Are you saying the word pervert has been perverted?

    Yes. By modern sensibilities 40 years ago, maybe Moore’s tastes were controversial (see Jerry Lee Lewis), but not perverted.

    The first thing the Left does to destroy the old order is pervert language.

    Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin. Is that perverted? Or just sick and wrong?

    Acording to Wikipedia, it was a huge controversy at the time.

    How much of that was because she was 13, how much because she was his cousin, and how much because it came out at the same time he was still married to another woman? That was a perfect storm of caca.

    Certainly a fair question.

    • #78
  19. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    who agreed that we would be better off if all of the amendments after the 10th Amendment were repealed,

    That’s not exactly what he said.

    • #79
  20. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Doctor Bass Monkey (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):

    thelonious (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    With respect to the semantics of perversion, I think the issue is the changing nature of the word.

    Are you saying the word pervert has been perverted?

    Yes. By modern sensibilities 40 years ago, maybe Moore’s tastes were controversial (see Jerry Lee Lewis), but not perverted.

    The first thing the Left does to destroy the old order is pervert language.

    Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin. Is that perverted? Or just sick and wrong?

    Acording to Wikipedia, it was a huge controversy at the time.

    How much of that was because she was 13, how much because she was his cousin, and how much because it came out at the same time he was still married to another woman? That was a perfect storm of caca.

    Also, it’s not even remotely what Moore is accused of. Getting down to your skivvies and touching a 14-year-old over her clothes isn’t quite like marrying a 13-year-old cousin in an act of bigamy, is it?

    But, the moral issues aren’t what we’re fighting over. The issue is, which party and its candidates best represent your values — and, therefore, where is your vote best placed to retain or win a majority. It’s not just crucial for the votes, but for the committee chairs and even what is allowed to come up for a vote. Roy Moore best represents the values of the large majority of conservative voters in Alabama. What else is there to say?

    • #80
  21. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    James Lileks (View Comment):
    When I was in *college,* any peer who dated a high school girl was considered a loser who couldn’t get the attention of his peers. “Boy, that lucky dog – he’s seeing someone inexperienced, emotionally undeveloped, intellectually unformed and unable to go out to the bars.”

    Yup, that sounds exactly like what his peers would say… as they sat at home alone Friday night, dateless…

     

    • #81
  22. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    Annefy (View Comment):
    I resemble that remark. I did nothing but date college aged guys when I was in high school. So that’s what all you jerks were saying behind my back

    It wasn’t about you, it would have been about the guy. The difference between, say, 17 and 21 is quite large; 16 and 30 is a chasm. I’m sure it’s the true meeting of souls from time to time, but most of the time it’s an older guy who likes younger girls and may – coincidently! – having a difficult time with grown-up women.

    • #82
  23. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    Arahant (View Comment):
    My view of “used to be” goes back far before the day I was born. You should try it sometimes, James.

    I can be fairly accused of many lapses and failures, but I don’t think that one works here. 

    • #83
  24. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):
    My view of “used to be” goes back far before the day I was born. You should try it sometimes, James.

    I can be fairly accused of many lapses and failures, but I don’t think that one works here.

    Exactly why I said it.

    • #84
  25. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

     

     

    • #85
  26. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Annefy (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):
    “Boy, that lucky dog – he’s seeing someone inexperienced, emotionally undeveloped, intellectually unformed and unable to go out to the bars.”

     

    From my husband: yes, it was very common for guys in college to check out another guy’s high school date and say: look at the formed intellectuals on that one.

     

    • #86
  27. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Wait, no, I was supposed to say, “But James, I thought you were alive back then. It must be that old man deep voice of yours.”

    • #87
  28. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):
    I resemble that remark. I did nothing but date college aged guys when I was in high school. So that’s what all you jerks were saying behind my back

    It wasn’t about you, it would have been about the guy. The difference between, say, 17 and 21 is quite large; 16 and 30 is a chasm. I’m sure it’s the true meeting of souls from time to time, but most of the time it’s an older guy who likes younger girls and may – coincidently! – having a difficult time with grown-up women.

    So college women are now grown up? Wasn’t the case even in the 70s.

    Although depending on the state and whether she was a junior or a senior, she might have been able to get into a bar.

    So at least the guy had that going for him …

     

    • #88
  29. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    Arahant (View Comment):
    Exactly why I said it.

    Then I’m confused.

    • #89
  30. Z in MT Member
    Z in MT
    @ZinMT

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):
    I resemble that remark. I did nothing but date college aged guys when I was in high school. So that’s what all you jerks were saying behind my back

    It wasn’t about you, it would have been about the guy. The difference between, say, 17 and 21 is quite large; 16 and 30 is a chasm. I’m sure it’s the true meeting of souls from time to time, but most of the time it’s an older guy who likes younger girls and may – coincidently! – having a difficult time with grown-up women.

    Moore definitely seems to have violated the Age/2 + 7 rule, but from the Three Martini Lunch podcast from Friday, I think the Alabama GOP royally screwed up. Yeah! for the stupid party!

    • #90
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