Sessions Out? He Never Was a Wartime Consiglieri.

 

Jeff Sessions, has recently been referred to by the president as beleaguered. Had the president known the AG would recuse himself about all matters Russia I doubt he would have hired him. Obama got away with murder by having his AGs obstruct, deny, and contempt their way through 8 years of scandals that were never looked at thoroughly.

Sessions can’t help with Russia. Sessions not investigating Clinton or the last admin. Sessions Sessions Sessions not not not helping with Trump’s Gordian knot. Bet he’s gone.

It will matter how it looks but Mueller and the dems need to be getting the same treatment as the GOP did during the Obama administration. Abuse. More abuse. Closed doors.

For all his faults Giuliani will do what is needed, he or another wartime consiglieri will be called upon.

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  1. blood thirsty neocon Inactive
    blood thirsty neocon
    @bloodthirstyneocon

    Trump should replace Sessions with someone who would head off Mueller in his wild goose chase. This is getting ridiculous.

    • #61
  2. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Sessions is focused on the wrong issues. If he were out , the new AG could look into this Russia BS and deal with it.

    Leave Mueller alone for now until we have a new AG.

    • #62
  3. outlaws6688 Member
    outlaws6688
    @

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    outlaws6688 (View Comment):

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    outlaws6688 (View Comment):

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):
    If Trump is not guilty (and I believe he is not)

    What evidence do you have for this assertion?

    What evidence do I have that Trump is not guilty?

    You said if Trump is not guilty and you believe he is not. I might be really stupid, but I understood that as saying he is guilty.

    You understood wrong.

    My apologies.

    • #63
  4. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher
    Goldwaterwoman
    @goldwaterwoman

    Yudansha (View Comment):
    Civil Asset Forfeiture allows the government to seize the property of anyone it suspects of any crime. The person from whom the property was seized does not need to be charged with a crime, (much less convicted) for the seizure to be legal and binding.

    Here’s the really Orwellian part: the property itself is presumed guilty of a crime.

    It’s bad, because it’s a blatant violation of due process, and is on its face, unconstitutional. It would be better if people had to actually be convicted of a crime before the government could confiscate their property.

    That is truly scary. I wonder why this hasn’t been taken all the way to the Supremes.

    • #64
  5. Yudansha Member
    Yudansha
    @Yudansha

    Goldwaterwoman (View Comment):

    Yudansha (View Comment):
    Civil Asset Forfeiture allows the government to seize the property of anyone it suspects of any crime. The person from whom the property was seized does not need to be charged with a crime, (much less convicted) for the seizure to be legal and binding.

    Here’s the really Orwellian part: the property itself is presumed guilty of a crime.

    It’s bad, because it’s a blatant violation of due process, and is on its face, unconstitutional. It would be better if people had to actually be convicted of a crime before the government could confiscate their property.

    That is truly scary. I wonder why this hasn’t been taken all the way to the Supremes.

    From your keyboard to God’s ear.

    • #65
  6. WI Con Member
    WI Con
    @WICon

    DocJay (View Comment):

    Addiction Is A Choice (View Comment):
    Off-center and slightly off-topic: I always thought “Judy Ruliani” would be a great drag name ?

    Genital Jeff Secession has already been taken by the TG crowd.

    I still like Lindsey ‘Grahamaphodite’ Graham

    • #66
  7. Terry Mott Member
    Terry Mott
    @TerryMott

    Goldwaterwoman (View Comment):

    Yudansha (View Comment):
    Civil Asset Forfeiture allows the government to seize the property of anyone it suspects of any crime. The person from whom the property was seized does not need to be charged with a crime, (much less convicted) for the seizure to be legal and binding.

    Here’s the really Orwellian part: the property itself is presumed guilty of a crime.

    It’s bad, because it’s a blatant violation of due process, and is on its face, unconstitutional. It would be better if people had to actually be convicted of a crime before the government could confiscate their property.

    That is truly scary. I wonder why this hasn’t been taken all the way to the Supremes.

    Just my hunch, but I suspect it’s at least partly because both sides of the aisle support it, to some degree.  Republicans tend to support the War On Drugs (Reagan signed the bill into law, after all), and Democrats don’t recognize property as being protected by the constitution.

    I once made a reference to property rights in a debate with a Democrat friend, who immediately countered with, “Property doesn’t have rights.”  Seriously.  As if that was an intelligent response.

    • #67
  8. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    Goldwaterwoman (View Comment):

    Yudansha (View Comment):
    Civil Asset Forfeiture allows the government to seize the property of anyone it suspects of any crime. The person from whom the property was seized does not need to be charged with a crime, (much less convicted) for the seizure to be legal and binding.

    Here’s the really Orwellian part: the property itself is presumed guilty of a crime.

    It’s bad, because it’s a blatant violation of due process, and is on its face, unconstitutional. It would be better if people had to actually be convicted of a crime before the government could confiscate their property.

    That is truly scary. I wonder why this hasn’t been taken all the way to the Supremes.

    It has been, but is due for a refresher.  The justification used was actually in very old case law about seizing ships and their cargoes in cases where the ship owner was under prosecution but unable to face charges due to being in foreign parts.  Like an English ship owner in London whose vessel happened to have docked in Baltimore.

    • #68
  9. drlorentz Member
    drlorentz
    @drlorentz

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    skipsul (View Comment):
    Until you have the right team in place you have to cut out the chaff

    See I thought Sessions was the right team, at least that’s how it seemed when he was appointed. I’m not sorry to see him go if he does, but this is a dumb reason. The AG is Americas lawyer, not Trumps.

    Yeah, I’m old enough to remember when Sessions was cited as evidence that conservatives were worried about nothing, and Trump really was going to hire the best guys.

    By which I mean I’m more than a month old.

    When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?

    • #69
  10. WI Con Member
    WI Con
    @WICon

    He’s been great on illegal immigration, really don’t like the Civil Asset Forfeiture and think he was way too naive/deferential to the Democrats on the Russian Recusal  but who do you guys think the Senate would confirm that would be better and confirmed in a timely, say 3-4 months manner?

    I think Trump gets 10x more problems by firing Sessions than by letting the man continue.

     

    • #70
  11. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Buahahahahahahahaha!!!!

    I love it. All of Trumps loyal followers are falling by the way side, broken and discarded. How long before Trump finds himself disappointed in his supporters and demands new ones.  What will you all do then? I assume change your views. For the North Star of conviction is Trump, the Golden Idol of your affections. All Hail Trump!!

    Sessions will not quit he has no where to go, and can we recall what happened when Trump cut Comey loose and made fun of him? He got a special prosecutor? How much Trouble can an angry AG who was an intimate campaign adviser cause for Trump?

     

    • #71
  12. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    drlorentz (View Comment):

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    skipsul (View Comment):
    Until you have the right team in place you have to cut out the chaff

    See I thought Sessions was the right team, at least that’s how it seemed when he was appointed. I’m not sorry to see him go if he does, but this is a dumb reason. The AG is Americas lawyer, not Trumps.

    Yeah, I’m old enough to remember when Sessions was cited as evidence that conservatives were worried about nothing, and Trump really was going to hire the best guys.

    By which I mean I’m more than a month old.

    When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?

    What new information has come out that would lead one to second guess the original appointment? To be clear I was against Sessions from the beginning so I’m looking for understanding from someone who once supported him.

    • #72
  13. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Ray Kujawa (View Comment):
    If that is the way it works, that is really harsh. Defending oneself against the government can get really expensive,

    It’s worse than that.  You have to sue the government, and you have to prove that you’re innocent.  And there are a myriad ways for the government to delay.

    • #73
  14. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    Buahahahahahahahaha!!!!

    I love it

    Some people think this is funny. I think those people are sick and stupid. That either makes the world go round, or stops it from going round.

    • #74
  15. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Goldwaterwoman (View Comment):
    That is truly scary. I wonder why this hasn’t been taken all the way to the Supremes.

    I can’t imagine that it hasn’t.  It’s been around for years.  Apparently, it passed muster.

    • #75
  16. WI Con Member
    WI Con
    @WICon

    WI Con (View Comment):
    He’s been great on illegal immigration, really don’t like the Civil Asset Forfeiture and think he was way too naive/deferential to the Democrats on the Russian Recusal but who do you guys think the Senate would confirm that would be better and confirmed in a timely, say 3-4 months manner?

    I think Trump gets 10x more problems by firing Sessions than by letting the man continue.

    I should also add that should he can Sessions, the same guy (Democrat?) Rosenstien that hired Mueller would be acting AG (unless he fires him too) – then, I actually think you’re in ‘Nixon/End Times Territory’. I think this whole Russian thing has been a farce but if he does that, he’ll lose even more support on Capital Hill. It could be that camel breaking straw.

    • #76
  17. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    So my own personal glee at the missery Trump is causing to his allies aside, suppose Sessions did not recuse himself. What makes one think he would also not have approved the special prosecutor given the circumstances of Trump’s shady firing of Comey? Muller was a Trump appointment too? He was nominated by Trump, just like Sessions?

    What would Trump have done then? What would you all be doing now?

    If during the  campaign Trump had not been such a indefatigable Putin lover, defending him against all charges and reason no one would have thought to connect the two. Putting aside the amorality of Trump’s Putin love how was it politically wise?

    • #77
  18. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    WI Con (View Comment):
    He’s been great on illegal immigration, really don’t like the Civil Asset Forfeiture and think he was way too naive/deferential to the Democrats on the Russian Recusal but who do you guys think the Senate would confirm that would be better and confirmed in a timely, say 3-4 months manner?

    I think Trump gets 10x more problems by firing Sessions than by letting the man continue.

    You may be right there.

    • #78
  19. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    cdor (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    Buahahahahahahahaha!!!!

    I love it

    Some people think this is funny. I think those people are sick and stupid. That either makes the world go round, or stops it from going round.

    How is this not funny? Granted it is a bit of a dark comedy, but the irony of all of this is just too much not to laugh. He will hire the best people!

    • #79
  20. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    skipsul (View Comment):

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):
    You celebrated his appointment just like everybody else did, but now that Dear Leader has decided he’s no longer useful, all of a sudden he never should have been hired.

    It could also be that he’s just reached his Peter Principle level. Was just fine as a senator, but at this level he can’t play the game. You can’t always tell with people how they’ll react once they get that promotion.

    Seen that happen pretty regularly in business – guy has ambitions well beyond his skill level but plateaus for years because everyone around him knows he’s not capable of that next job up the rungs. Well, he eventually gets his shot, nice promotion along with a pay raise, but fumbles badly. Either has to take a demotion (which many people cannot easily do) or leave.

    I have and may still be, living this with hires.

    • #80
  21. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):
    Sessions’ stance on civil asset forfeiture is deplorable. But perhaps the threat of replacement could make him back down on that. If his priorities are the crux of the problem, then the President might be able to direct them.

    If I thought for one second that Civil Asset Forfeiture was the reason that Sessions was in trouble* I’d agree with the majority.

    But we all know it’s not.

    Sessions is in trouble* with Trump because he won’t make the Russia thing go away. Any other flaws Trump’s defenders bring up are a smoke screen.


    *This assumes he actually is on his way out, of course. How many times have we heard that Bannon and/or Priebus are hanging on by a thread.

    Trump is too big a coward to fire Sessions, just like he was too big a coward to fire Speicer so he will just treat him like dirt in the hope he quits. Of course unlike Speicer he can’t slowly push him out of a job, so he just has to say mean things.

    Sessions view on Asset forfeitures is abhorrent, and while I had no issue with him as AG when nominated (because I did not know this about him) I kind of hope he gets canned. Though as you say it won’t be on the merits. But then again Comey wasn’t fired on the merits either. I just hope when Sessions goes he will put another knife in Trumps back Comey style. That should make for some fun reading and podcasting for a week or two.

    I think the better Godfather line is that you never discuss your family problems in front of strangers. That all of this is happening out in the open is amazing.

    • #81
  22. Mike LaRoche Inactive
    Mike LaRoche
    @MikeLaRoche

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    Buahahahahahahahaha!!!!

    I love it. All of Trumps loyal followers are falling by the way side, broken and discarded. How long before Trump finds himself disappointed in his supporters and demands new ones. What will you all do then? I assume change your views. For the North Star of conviction is Trump, the Golden Idol of your affections. All Hail Trump!!

    Sessions will not quit he has no where to go, and can we recall what happened when Trump cut Comey loose and made fun of him? He got a special prosecutor? How much Trouble can an angry AG who was an intimate campaign adviser cause for Trump?

    Grow up.

    • #82
  23. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    So my own personal glee at the missery Trump is causing to his allies aside. Suppose Sessions did not recuse what make one think he would also not have approved the special prosecutor given the circumstances of Trump’s shady firing of Comey? Muller was a Trump appointment too? He was nominated by Trump, just like Sessions?

    What would Trump have done then? What would you all be doing now?

    If during the campaign Trump had not been such a indefatigable Putin lover, defending him against all charges and reason no one would have thought to connect the two. Putting aside the amorality of Trump’s Putin love how was it politically wise?

    One thing I like about Trump, even with his exaggerations, hyperbole, and lies, is you can usually tell what he is thinking about people and their actions when the issue gets intense.

    Oh, did you mean Rosenstein?

    • #83
  24. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    I think the better Godfather line is that you never discuss your family problems in front of strangers. That all of this is happening out in the open is amazing.

    I knew you preferred the GOPe approach capped with deception.

    • #84
  25. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Mike LaRoche (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    Buahahahahahahahaha!!!!

    I love it. All of Trumps loyal followers are falling by the way side, broken and discarded. How long before Trump finds himself disappointed in his supporters and demands new ones. What will you all do then? I assume change your views. For the North Star of conviction is Trump, the Golden Idol of your affections. All Hail Trump!!

    Sessions will not quit he has no where to go, and can we recall what happened when Trump cut Comey loose and made fun of him? He got a special prosecutor? How much Trouble can an angry AG who was an intimate campaign adviser cause for Trump?

    Grow up.

    Trump first.

    • #85
  26. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    I think the better Godfather line is that you never discuss your family problems in front of strangers. That all of this is happening out in the open is amazing.

    I knew you preferred the GOPe approach capped with deception.

    Oh! Refreshing honesty is how we shall spin this? Give me a break. Keeping it private is how adults would handle this. Does having it out in the open help his agenda? Is it good to publicly under cut your own AG. You think this will cause more or less order in the ranks of the administration?

    • #86
  27. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    So my own personal glee at the missery Trump is causing to his allies aside. Suppose Sessions did not recuse what make one think he would also not have approved the special prosecutor given the circumstances of Trump’s shady firing of Comey? Muller was a Trump appointment too? He was nominated by Trump, just like Sessions?

    What would Trump have done then? What would you all be doing now?

    If during the campaign Trump had not been such a indefatigable Putin lover, defending him against all charges and reason no one would have thought to connect the two. Putting aside the amorality of Trump’s Putin love how was it politically wise?

    One thing I like about Trump, even with his exaggerations, hyperbole, and lies, is you can usually tell what he is thinking about people and their actions when the issue gets intense.

    Oh, did you mean Rosenstein?

    Yes I did mean Roesenstein. My mistake. His level of openness is great. Which is why I don’t trust him alone with Putin. It is clear to me Trump loves him and will sellout big to get a pat on the back from big brother.

    • #87
  28. Jeff Peterson Member
    Jeff Peterson
    @PatJefferson

    Goldwaterwoman (View Comment):
    During the campaign two candidates for AG stood out: Rudy Giuliani and Chris Christie. Don’t know what happened to Giuliani, but Christie seems to be mired in all sorts of problems in New Jersey.

    Seems dubious that 50 senators will vote for Guiliani, Christie, or anyone noted for great loyalty to Trump. To get Senate confirmation, he’ll need to nominate another above-reproach, Gorsuch type.

    • #88
  29. Doug Kimball Thatcher
    Doug Kimball
    @DougKimball

    Sessions is a Senator, bloated ego, harrumphing honor, deferential blowhard.  As Senators go though, he’s shown some backbone at times.  His Russia recusal threatened his appointment right out of the gate, so he capitulated; those Senatorial tendencies are hard to unlearn.  Government officials are conditioned to recuse themselves at the remotest hint of a possible conflict; with the press turning every anthill into a spewing Vesuvius, why take a chance?  On the other hand, Donald expects his lieutenants to fall on their own swords as necessary to preserve him.  Senators are never a good choice if you expect them to act out of anything other than their own self interest first, second and last.   It is Trump’s naivete that is so striking here.  He’s shocked, shocked that Sessions did not step up to take his blows!

    The evaluation of Sessions is another matter entirely.  Asset forfeiture law and policy are in need of reform.  They are truly out of control and need to be ratcheted back, along with RICO, which is also misused.  Neither of these things are high on the legislative agenda, but they should be.  In the meantime Trump could reign Sessions in on these things as a matter of policy, but I doubt he will.  It would be considered anti-cop and I doubt Trump can appreciate the subtlety of the constitutional/philosophical argument.

    Rudy is simply old.  He’s not a man for the battlefield any more.  He’s at a point where tending his backyard tomatoes and basil are more his speed.

     

     

    • #89
  30. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Jeff Peterson (View Comment):

    Goldwaterwoman (View Comment):
    During the campaign two candidates for AG stood out: Rudy Giuliani and Chris Christie. Don’t know what happened to Giuliani, but Christie seems to be mired in all sorts of problems in New Jersey.

    Seems dubious that 50 senators will vote for Guiliani, Christie, or anyone noted for great loyalty to Trump. To get Senate confirmation, Trump will need to nominate another above-reproach, Gorsuch type.

    I don’t particularly see that as a bad thing.

    • #90
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