Major Advance in 3D Metal Printing

 

I just got emails about this earlier today.  I have no idea on the cost (I’m waiting for my rep to quote it) and it won’t be released for sale until 2018, but if this tech works out then we’re looking at a truly massive breakthrough in affordable (for businesses anyway, not yet consumers) 3D metal printing.  Probably still out of the price range for my business, but this is a significant move towards affordable 3D printing of high-quality metal parts.

First up we have a desktop (really benchtop) metal printing system.  Nothing like this has been out before.

Next up we have a high-volume version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUOCiRktuCo

The second video demonstrates the mass printing of an impeller, with an estimated cost of under $5.00 a part.  If they are correct, that is a very affordable price.

Amazing.

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  1. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    cirby (View Comment):

    Joseph Eagar (View Comment):
    I’ve had a mania for taking stuff apart since I was a small child, especially plastic stuff (I find it fascinating). And let me tell you, having decent plastics does make a difference. Injection-molded engineering plastics are so much tougher and nicer.

    Compared to plain ABS from a printer? Yeah.

    But there are some newer and better printer plastics out there, and some of them are quite strong. PLA is what, 2.5 times the strength of ABS? The only issue would be getting that slick finish you get from injection molding, and for the vast majority of uses, that’s certainly not critical. I’d much rather have a not-as-perfect but perfectly functional item in my hand in a few minutes than a somewhat nicer one that I have to spend a day making – or a couple of days waiting for a shipment from the manufacturer.

    If you need even higher strength, there’s always nylon-carbon fiber. Right now, it’s mostly for the more expensive printers, but give it time. It’s nice looking, and pretty damned strong – approaching machined aluminum in raw strength.

    PLA is hard but brittle and has a low tolerance for heat.  That’s why it’s used in the low-buck printers.  ABS is tougher in that it maintains flexibility and has a better tolerance for hot and cold.  PLA can be directly printed in a room temperature environment, but ABS requires a heated chamber that controls for shrink and peel.

    The Mojo printers I linked above print in ABS and those parts are very strong, which they ought to be for a $6000 printer.  The printer has a locked and heated chamber, and uses PLA in a 2nd print head as a support material, which is then removed using a wash process.  Your consumer grade printers primarily use PLA, the commercial and industrial ones done.

    The exciting stuff, though, is nylon, along with some more rubbery elastomers available, but those printers start at $20k and only go up from there.

    • #91
  2. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Hank Rhody (View Comment):
    We were just using it to replicate the mass production system we had previously. But we weren’t constrained to mass produced product anymore; you get the same speeds and efficiencies producing a thousand units or ony one. I’ve thought a lot about that since. I think the future’s in that direction, where you can make things that are both cheap and unique.

    What would be really cool would be to have men’s clothes that fit again instead of one or two sizes that fit all, badly. I’ve often wondered why we don’t have it already.

    The tech is actually there, it’s just that the equipment is pricey due to its size.  Gerber Scientific makes equipment for designing and routing out fabric, plastic sheeting, and so forth, but the fabric routers are all very large.

    • #92
  3. cirby Inactive
    cirby
    @cirby

    skipsul (View Comment):
    The exciting stuff, though, is nylon, along with some more rubbery elastomers available, but those printers start at $20k and only go up from there.

    There are aftermarket hot heads for a lot of printers that can handle nylon now, and a few printers for under $2000 than can do it out of the box.

    The Robo C2 can use nylon and other “advanced” materials, and it’s $1499.

     

     

    • #93
  4. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    What would be really cool would be to have men’s clothes that fit again instead of one or two sizes that fit all, badly. I’ve often wondered why we don’t have it already.

    It’s on the way. 3D mapping of your (naked) body. There are places in China that then laser cut the fabric, liners etc.

    • #94
  5. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    cirby (View Comment):

    skipsul (View Comment):
    The exciting stuff, though, is nylon, along with some more rubbery elastomers available, but those printers start at $20k and only go up from there.

    There are aftermarket hot heads for a lot of printers that can handle nylon now, and a few printers for under $2000 than can do it out of the box.

    The Robo C2 can use nylon and other “advanced” materials, and it’s $1499.

    Do you have a link to that one?  Nylon has even more difficult cure and shrink issues than ABS, so I’m curious how they handle that.

    • #95
  6. Joseph Eagar Member
    Joseph Eagar
    @JosephEagar

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):

    Joseph Eagar: I have a simple question for those who disagree: how can you love a country where a plurality of the population openly encourages another, bigger plurality to kill themselves, such is their hatred? Please, enlighten me. What part of America is so awesome and morally good to compensate for that.

    From your loathe America post. Don’t mean to divert (I got another comment coming up on actual fabbers), but:

    I love this country with a breadth, depth, and density that is neither scale-able nor negotiable, and mostly (for me, ’cause I always end up crying like a [CoC]) indescribable. But this country is well worth loving. I grew up a TCK, so ‘pon my return to the US of A, I had to compare and contrast what I saw in the US with what I’d grown up with. I fell in love. And do so over and over again.

    We have sharp, jagged, ragged differences about what our body politic should do, is doing, will do. But as passionate (or histrionic/vitriolic/venomized) as our public discourse has been, you would be hard pressed to find any countries that have handled it as well as we have, at any point in history.

    Was going to post a post (that’s either really good writing, or really bad) on The Things That Bring Me Joy. I was headed home and transitioned from the Dixie Highway to the Overseas Highway.

    I saw a kid, pumping hard on a bike, back-pack on, long hair flowing in the wind, with a crazy grin on his face.

    I love this country because, as bitter as our internecine disputes are, no one is looking to trash that kid’s bike, or hack his arm off with a machete, or execute him because of national politics, state politics, or municipal politics. I love this country.

    I worked with a guy named Sar. He had an amazing “tattoo” of silvered flesh from the knuckles of his hand up to his shoulder. Kind of like how hipsters get sleeve tattoos without even knowing who they are, except not. Counter-sniper fire had hit his arm and traveled up; the result was glistening, silvery scars. He earned those amazing scars whilst serving as a sniper. At the age of 13.

    Sar willingly tied his fate and destiny to the United States. Has put his life on the line for these United States again, and again, and again. He exemplifies diversity, patriotism and love of liberty.

    That’s why I love these United States, and will never loathe us. Or US.

    Okay, I am going to link the apology post in the original one.

    • #96
  7. Joseph Eagar Member
    Joseph Eagar
    @JosephEagar

    skipsul (View Comment):

    cirby (View Comment):

    skipsul (View Comment):
    The exciting stuff, though, is nylon, along with some more rubbery elastomers available, but those printers start at $20k and only go up from there.

    There are aftermarket hot heads for a lot of printers that can handle nylon now, and a few printers for under $2000 than can do it out of the box.

    The Robo C2 can use nylon and other “advanced” materials, and it’s $1499.

    Do you have a link to that one? Nylon has even more difficult cure and shrink issues than ABS, so I’m curious how they handle that.

    When I’ve used nylon it was much, much, much easier than ABS.  That said, it could be a quirk of my printer (my heated bed kind of sucks).

    • #97
  8. Joseph Eagar Member
    Joseph Eagar
    @JosephEagar

    cirby (View Comment):

    Joseph Eagar (View Comment):
    I’ve had a mania for taking stuff apart since I was a small child, especially plastic stuff (I find it fascinating). And let me tell you, having decent plastics does make a difference. Injection-molded engineering plastics are so much tougher and nicer.

    Compared to plain ABS from a printer? Yeah.

    But there are some newer and better printer plastics out there, and some of them are quite strong. PLA is what, 2.5 times the strength of ABS? The only issue would be getting that slick finish you get from injection molding, and for the vast majority of uses, that’s certainly not critical. I’d much rather have a not-as-perfect but perfectly functional item in my hand in a few minutes than a somewhat nicer one that I have to spend a day making – or a couple of days waiting for a shipment from the manufacturer.

    If you need even higher strength, there’s always nylon-carbon fiber. Right now, it’s mostly for the more expensive printers, but give it time. It’s nice looking, and pretty damned strong – approaching machined aluminum in raw strength.

    Seems like it shouldn’t be hard to make a nylon staple carbon fiber blend. If you did it with the right length of fibers than they should align themselves during extrusion. I’ve always wanted to try it, but I have no idea where you’d get staple style carbon fiber (staple fibers are the shore hairy ones used for cotton thread etc).

    • #98
  9. Steve C. Member
    Steve C.
    @user_531302

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    What would be really cool would be to have men’s clothes that fit again instead of one or two sizes that fit all, badly. I’ve often wondered why we don’t have it already.

    It’s on the way. 3D mapping of your (naked) body. There are places in China that then laser cut the fabric, liners etc.

    The future is almost here, just have a little patience

     

    • #99
  10. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    What would be really cool would be to have men’s clothes that fit again instead of one or two sizes that fit all, badly. I’ve often wondered why we don’t have it already.

    It’s on the way. 3D mapping of your (naked) body. There are places in China that then laser cut the fabric, liners etc.

    The future is almost here, just have a little patience.

    Patience? The sign said 2073.  I’ll be 125 by then and will have lost interest.

     

    • #100
  11. cirby Inactive
    cirby
    @cirby

    skipsul (View Comment):

    cirby (View Comment):

    skipsul (View Comment):
    The exciting stuff, though, is nylon, along with some more rubbery elastomers available, but those printers start at $20k and only go up from there.

    There are aftermarket hot heads for a lot of printers that can handle nylon now, and a few printers for under $2000 than can do it out of the box.

    The Robo C2 can use nylon and other “advanced” materials, and it’s $1499.

    Do you have a link to that one? Nylon has even more difficult cure and shrink issues than ABS, so I’m curious how they handle that.

     

    Sorry, I said “Robo C2”, but meant Robo R2. That’s the $1499 one with the heated bed.

    https://robo3d.com/robor2/

    From one of their fact sheets:

    “More than 15 specialty materials can be used with all Robo printers, from PLA and ABS plastic to Carbon Fiber PLA, Wood Infused PLA, Stainless Steel PLA, Nylon, and PET”

     

    • #101
  12. Brian Clendinen Inactive
    Brian Clendinen
    @BrianClendinen

    Phil Turmel (View Comment):

    1967mustangman (View Comment):
    …. (all done on a semi that appears to be carrying much less than its capacity).

    Trucking of dense materials is limited by weight, not volume. 40 tons gross per truckload, including the truck and trailer. Commonly 23-25 tons net cargo. Metal cargo is heavy.

    Now imagine if we could double the number of machines in the room and have our production powder delivered via UPS?

    It won’t be UPS. It’ll be semi after semi of pallets or totes of powder, with approximately the weight you are currently shipping in.

    High quality powdered metal is extraordinarily difficult to produce compared to ingots or castings of alloy, btw. (I’m intimately familiar with the production of precision powdered zinc.) Processes that use metal ingots and/or castings in high volume today aren’t going to switch to 3d printed technologies for decades to come, if ever.

    True but there are a lot of low volume ideas out there were this will greatly reduce the cost curve on the front end for low production runs. That is 3d printing is making the economics of scale cost curves start out much lower. Products you might sell in low volumes even up to a few hundred units a year are ideal depending on the tooling cost for mass run. Even better you can see what the demand is first before you spend the capital cost to reduce your manufacturing cost. As the software becomes easier to use and more automated you don’t need your pricey senior engineers programming the 3d printing. You can get lower level techs/machinist to due it. Remember labor can still be a decent size cost of your product. So if you can reduce some combination of shipping, labor and capital cost in exchange for more expensive Raw material it can be cheaper to print in 3D.

     

    Or even better manufacturing firms still have huge issues with inventory accuracy. If you have a special part you need a couple of in a day or two and have the CAD file, it could now be cheaper to make them than air freight them to your customer or yourself.

    There are a lot of uses for 3d printing that can reduce cost. Your right 3d printing is still far away from being economical for large volume production runs. However most entrepreneurs don’t have ideas that have that volumes that make sense to make them under traditional cheaper manufacturing process. There are a lot of few hundred to few thousand unit ideas out there that cheaper 3d printing machines now make possible. So 3d printing is making commercialization of new ideas a lot easy and cheaper. 3d printing is not for consumer goods that are similar or are basically the same as the mass produce stuff most of us buy every day. Its more for lower volume commercial products and specialized consumer products.

    • #102
  13. Brian Clendinen Inactive
    Brian Clendinen
    @BrianClendinen

    cirby (View Comment):

    skipsul (View Comment):

    cirby (View Comment):

    skipsul (View Comment):
    The exciting stuff, though, is nylon, along with some more rubbery elastomers available, but those printers start at $20k and only go up from there.

    There are aftermarket hot heads for a lot of printers that can handle nylon now, and a few printers for under $2000 than can do it out of the box.

    The Robo C2 can use nylon and other “advanced” materials, and it’s $1499.

    Do you have a link to that one? Nylon has even more difficult cure and shrink issues than ABS, so I’m curious how they handle that.

    Sorry, I said “Robo C2”, but meant Robo R2. That’s the $1499 one with the heated bed.

    https://robo3d.com/robor2/

    From one of their fact sheets:

    “More than 15 specialty materials can be used with all Robo printers, from PLA and ABS plastic to Carbon Fiber PLA, Wood Infused PLA, Stainless Steel PLA, Nylon, and PET”

    There are products PLA/Metal hybrid materials that are up to 85% metal for Copper and brass and work on the under $2000 plastic printers. If you go on maker forms people are upgrading their nosels to all metal for a few hundred dollars at most and are having some success with printing pure metal on these cheaper printers. Room temperature matters a lot still in this case but they are experimenting.

    There as been a project going on were for under $2500 make your own picker (for circuit boards that pick and solder automatically). Pickers normal cost at lest $50k. If they can work out calibration routines so the machine is precise enough to work, that will be a huge leap forward. The reason being most circuit board runs need 400 or 500 units to be economical because of the set-up cost. That way small business can due under 100 production runs on custom electronic products and have a lot smaller investment cost and reduce the risk of unsold products.

    • #103
  14. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    Brian Clendinen (View Comment):
    There as been a project going on were for under $2500 make your own picker (for circuit boards that pick and solder automatically). Pickers normal cost at lest $50k. If they can work out calibration routines so the machine is precise enough to work, that will be a huge leap forward. The reason being most circuit board runs need 400 or 500 units to be economical because of the set-up cost. That way small business can due under 100 production runs on custom electronic products and have a lot smaller investment cost and reduce the risk of unsold products.

    I’ve got an SMT line.  The setup costs are actually more complex.  The component data is all in the CAD files, so programming the machine isn’t terribly time consuming at this point unless you have to teach the  machine a bunch of new or weird parts.  Just convert your pick file coordinates and orientations and go.   What drives up the cost is job setup – how many different components do you have to load on X feeders?  How about your stencil?  What about your oven profile?

    A really simple board can be economical at under 100 pcs.  A complex board can still be uneconomical at well over 1000 pcs.

    • #104
  15. Brian Clendinen Inactive
    Brian Clendinen
    @BrianClendinen

    skipsul (View Comment):

    Brian Clendinen (View Comment):
    There as been a project going on were for under $2500 make your own picker (for circuit boards that pick and solder automatically). Pickers normal cost at lest $50k. If they can work out calibration routines so the machine is precise enough to work, that will be a huge leap forward. The reason being most circuit board runs need 400 or 500 units to be economical because of the set-up cost. That way small business can due under 100 production runs on custom electronic products and have a lot smaller investment cost and reduce the risk of unsold products.

    I’ve got an SMT line. The setup costs are actually more complex. The component data is all in the CAD files, so programming the machine isn’t terribly time consuming at this point unless you have to teach the machine a bunch of new or weird parts. Just convert your pick file coordinates and orientations and go. What drives up the cost is job setup – how many different components do you have to load on X feeders? How about your stencil? What about your oven profile?

    A really simple board can be economical at under 100 pcs. A complex board can still be uneconomical at well over 1000 pcs.

    So basically you are saying, unless your labor is a lot cheaper than a Circuit board printing house, their set-up cost is almost totally labor related.  So internally doing this is usually not cheaper because external firms mark-ups are low as it stands?  I only have professional manufacturing experience in Metal Fab (conveyor), Food Processing, and some Electrical shop (MCP’s, VFD’s) stuff. I thought I was well read enough to understand very similar industries in manufacturing that I understood the basic drives. I guess it proves that you always need to be careful about extrapolating and connecting the dots even in fairly similar process/industries.

    • #105
  16. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    Brian Clendinen (View Comment):
    So basically you are saying, unless your labor is a lot cheaper than a Circuit board printing house, their set-up cost is almost totally labor related. So internally doing this is usually not cheaper because external firms mark-ups are low as it stands? I only have professional manufacturing experience in Metal Fab (conveyor), Food Processing, and some Electrical shop (MCP’s, VFD’s) stuff. I thought I was well read enough to understand very similar industries in manufacturing that I understood the basic drives. I guess it proves that you always need to be careful about extrapolating and connecting the dots even in fairly similar process/industries.

    Sorry for my first response, in re-reading it I think I left some things out.  Was typing on my phone while attending to some other business.  Until we put in our own line I was dealing with contract houses to run my products so got to understand their model pretty well.  Certainly when dealing with them the setup costs are key, but it’s the setup labor of loading up feeders.  They’re usually not happy to run just 50 pcs of something because the setup will take a lot longer than the actual board run.  But you’d have that same setup time internally for doing it yourself, and then your benchtop system is going to run considerably slower, plus you still need to do your solder paste screening, then reflow the board.  You will likely need more labor hours to do all this than they will, so that’s the balance you have to look at.

    First up, I’ll link back to a piece I wrote on electronics manufacturing, then expand from there.

    http://ricochet.com/archives/i-circuit-board/

    Inexpensive Pick-n-Place machines do definitely have a market, but they have limitations.  You won’t save on setup labor with them either, in fact you’ll likely have a higher labor cost to use them than you would with a larger line, simply because you’ll have to manually feed and load, then swap out and load again, and again….  The key to setup cost savings on an SMT machine is Capacity – how many different parts can you load on at one time?  How often are you changing your parts feeders?  Is your parts mix optimized on the machine for most rapid placement?  Small machines are really limited here.  Further, they’ve been out for a long time.  Mann Corporation, for instance, has been making benchtop PNP machines for (I think) about 20 years.

    Here’s a practical example – you’ve got a benchtop placer that maybe has a 20-feeder capacity (which would be high).  Well, that’s at best 20 feeders of 8mm width, if you are placing wider parts then your real feeder capacity goes down.  If your board only has 20 unique components then this isn’t an issue.  But if you have 25, or more, well you will have to keep swapping feeders out.  Even in very large plants today, it is not uncommon to have more invested in parts feeders than in the original PNP robot.

    What these little machines do have going for them, though, is their low capital cost.  They let you get “in the game” on the cheap so you can run your own quick-turn or short-run boards without needing to wait on a contractor or solder them yourself.  They also don’t need the power the larger machines do.  I need 3-phase, but these smaller PNP machines and low-buck convection (or vapor-phase, if you want to go exotic) ovens can get by on 220 1phase, at the sacrifice of speed.  Lets you set up shop in a rented office condo, or your garage, or your basement, and that is a massive boon to startups or engineering labs.

    • #106
  17. Brian Clendinen Inactive
    Brian Clendinen
    @BrianClendinen

    skipsul (View Comment):

     

    Certainly when dealing with them the setup costs are key, but it’s the setup labor of loading up feeders. ……………….

    Even in very large plants today, it is not uncommon to have more invested in parts feeders than in the original PNP robot.

     

    So due any of the big firms have automated warehouse lines that pick the components from bins in the warehouse and are able to automatically load the feeders?  Or is the process of loading the feeders still need to be done manually?

     

     

     

    • #107
  18. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    Brian Clendinen (View Comment):

    skipsul (View Comment):

    Certainly when dealing with them the setup costs are key, but it’s the setup labor of loading up feeders. ……………….

    Even in very large plants today, it is not uncommon to have more invested in parts feeders than in the original PNP robot.

    So due any of the big firms have automated warehouse lines that pick the components from bins in the warehouse and are able to automatically load the feeders? Or is the process of loading the feeders still need to be done manually?

    I suspect it’s still mostly manual.  The parts come mostly in pocket-tape reels, and to start them is almost always a manual process.  That being said, a reel of 5000 parts is going to last you a while unless you’ve got a very high-speed turret line, and then you’re loading massive magazines full of feeders for those, with a crew setting up replacement magazines on the side.  Those machines can place up to 80k an hour, but it’s rarely 80k of any one single part, it is a mix of resistors, caps, small diodes, LEDs, etc.  Odd form-factor parts come in trays, or are fed to the PNP machines by vibratory bowl feeders, but those take up major real-estate on the PNP, but their reloading tends to be very automated.

    It’s all about the trade-offs.  A reel can take you up to a minute to load on a feeder, but once there you’ll not need to change it for a while.  A tray won’t last anywhere nearly as long, but you can have large magazines of trays that you can swap in and out as needed, but a tray feeder can take up an entire side of your machine (1/2 your feeder capacity).  Bowl feeders are easy, you just feed the hopper, but again they take up a lot of room.

    But look at it this way – my line has 2 placers, and I can load it up with about 200 feeders at full capacity (I rarely need to do this as our “worst” board only has 55 unique parts).  But just 1 employee can keep up with an entire run once it’s going, swapping feeders as needed.  Keep a couple of extra feeders for some parts on hand and you can make a quick trade out, and then have plenty of time to reload the one you pulled off while the next one is running.  Thus that 1 employee can do in 1 day what it would have taken a team of 6 working an entire week back in the 90s.

    Even the gigantic job shops in Mexico and China still mostly use the same machines as me, with the 80k turrets for the popcorn parts.

    • #108
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