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The End Game for NeverTrumpers: A Response
This is a response to @polyphemus’s post entitled “What is the End Game for NeverTrumpers.” It started out as a comment, but I decided to make it its own post because despite several servers full of Trump commentary on this site, I honestly don’t feel like my perspective has been well represented all that often. So here we go.
What I want, first and foremost, is a commander in chief who I trust to do everything humanly possible to ensure the security of the country. That requires a certain amount of knowledge and a certain amount of judgment. I find Trump terrifyingly lacking in those departments and genuinely fear that something terrible will happen because of the combination of his ignorance and his impulsiveness. I’d just feel much better with a steadier finger on the trigger. (Mike Pence would do nicely.)
That’s always, ultimately, been my problem with Trump. He’s like a naked short on an overvalued growth stock. Yeah, there might be a lot of upside to the trade, but the downside risk is uncapped and unlimited. It’s a risk I’d just rather not take.
Ideally that meant — back in the day — a better nominee. Didn’t happen. Obviously. Despite a wealth of better options.
As of election day, honestly, hard as it is to say, I trusted Hillary more. Didn’t like her. Didn’t trust her. God knows I didn’t want to live through four years of her disastrous presidency. But given a choice between four years of guaranteed Hillary deterioration in the state of the country and Trump who, whatever the upside potential, comes with a small but not insignificant risk of absolute, sudden, complete (like, nuclear war or World War III complete) catastrophe, I would have limited my downside risk and sucked it up and taken Hillary.
Today the choice is Trump or Pence, and that’s a no-brainer. I pick Pence. Period.
And if you want to talk about 2018, or 2020, I think we’ve got a problem, regardless of what happens to Trump. We put a guy who’s demonstrably unsuited in the White House. We tied our wagon to him. And a lot of the electorate (polling suggests it’s a sizeable majority) has noticed. We’re very likely going to get punished, no matter what happens to the Trump administration. But it’s never too late to at least make things better by doing the right thing and correcting a mistake. It’s about the country, not the politics.
So end game? From where we are now? I’d like to see the President resign and ride off into the sunset, leaving government to people with the knowledge and temperament to handle it. Hopefully that will continue to include a good cadre of Republicans and conservatives even after the next couple election cycles. But from where we sit now, I suspect that there’s going to be some not insubstantial losses on our side no matter what happens to Trump, and I’m prepared to live with that.
All in the service of limiting the downside risk and living to fight another day.
Published in Politics
And more recently : http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/26/donald-trump-social-conservatives-215073
They are ” over the moon”.
You don’t get what you want! Hello, Republic.
So what you want is unobtainable, you say, so your stance is? Railing against our duly elected President has no power. Stamping your feet has the same effect as this post. Do you have suggestions about how he manages the country? All else is whining. Get real! Are you saying that SCJ Lynch would be just fine?
Move to Venezuela and then edit your comment.
Are you eating Soylent Green? The media is in full blood-lust opposition to we the citizens’ choice for president. And you believe everything you read and hear?
Hello, Mr. Clarity.
Trump is our duly elected president. Limiting the comment stream won’t change that. I haven’t noticed that a new election was underway between Trump and Pence. Meh.
Or, conversely, one could operate in the present domain, one that includes the duly elected president Trump. Advice and comments take on a different hue when offered within reality. Please advise how stupid Hannity is to lawyer up against the Prog machine?
What?! Two points. Never means never. And, secondly, they are still back biting Trump.
Your alternate reality must be comforting, compared to those of us who suffer the real effects of socialism.
Cato, here is what I tried to get across on the Flagship podcast: criticize the man, by all means. There is plenty of substance there to which one could point. I am just not going to get my knickers in a twist over the man’s tweets. There are so much more serious issues to scrutinize, particularly if one is anywhere near the libertarian philosophy: no Congressional authority for lobbing missiles into Syria, the seeming continuance of an imperial presidency, and his VP trying to tell me that the CR was a conservative win because we got more in defense spending than the Dems got in domestic spending. Those are just a few of the things of substance to which I would point.
I’m having some fun throwing a few rocks tonight. Can’t believe how so many believe the fourth estate or the fifth column’s attacks have merit. Great discussion,and thanks for the post!
Public relations is a significant part of the job of being president. If some conservatives believe that Trump’s tweets are damaging the image of Trump himself and the conservative cause generally, those conservatives should criticize Trump for his behavior.
Trump isn’t just a position paper sitting in a three ring notebook. His behavior matters. His character counts for him or against him.
Just read this Harvard media study (actually, this isn’t the actual study, but just a summary). The overwhelmingly negative coverage includes even issue areas that he has done reasonably well in early on, like the economy.
Immigration: 96/4 negative; are you really gonna try to tell me 96% of Americans are unhappy with dramatically lower immigration levels, because that’s what they got immediately after he took office.
Trade 84/16 negative? Since all 3 of the most successful presidential candidates publicly ran as trade skeptics, it’s hard to believe that particular number. C’mon, anti-Trump people, you can see the media is poisoning this well. You’re smarter than this.
Conservatism’s brand was ruined way before Trump. I suppose you could argue that the one thing conservatism had left–its grace when losing–was destroyed by Trump but there isn’t much else.
I’m not sure where you get this. Conservative Republicans have been successfully elected in recent years, precisely because many people are tired of government overreach, and conservative principles such as limited government and subsidiarity are more popular than ever. But I admit that conservatism does have a marketing problem in that Americans do not like hearing that reforms must be made entitlement programs for there to be necessary debt reduction. So they elected Trump, who said he would not cut any benefits (and promised more goodies, like mandatory paid family leave). No one wants to be told to eat their veggies when Trump and the Democrats are promising ice cream.
Conservatism’s brand was not in ruins before Trump. Prior to the 2016 election Republicans had gained control over a large majority of state legislative chambers and governor’s offices. In 2010 Republicans booted Nancy Pelosi out of the Speaker’s office. In 2014 Republicans gained control over the United States Senate.
Also, consider that back in 2009, during Obama’s first year as president, Trump was endorsing Obama’s economic stimulus plan. In 2010 Trump donated money to help Harry Reid win reelection to the US Senate in Nevada.
In 2013 Trump donated money to help Terry MacAuliffe win the governor’s race in Virginia against conservative Republican Ken Cuccinelli.
In 2015, during the 1st Republican presidential debate, Trump praised single payer health care as practiced in Scotland and Canada.
Trump also told listeners of that debate that while other Republican presidential candidates support entitlement reform, Trump (and Mike Huckabee) would oppose changing Social Security or Medicare. On that issue, Trump was to the Left of New Jersey Governor Chris Christie and former Florida Governor Jeb Bush.
The idea that Trump is a strong conservative is complete fiction. Conservatives are not obligated to support him, especially when Mike Pence would become president should Trump resign or be removed from office.
I would say Republicans yes, but if you could kindly point to me what Democrat president signed into law bills passed by a Republican Congress that authorized bulk collection of all electronic communications of US citizens, the restriction of political speech during an election, and the expansion of an entitlement program? Or what Democrat president signed into law the further entrenchment of the general government into the education system say around the year 2002? Or which Democrat president signed into law a grossly bloated farm bill in the same year? I will help: it wasn’t a Democrat president. There hasn’t been much conservatism since 1995.
So the solution is for conservatives to lend their support to Chuck Schumer donor, Harry Reid donor and Hillary Clinton donor Donald Trump?
Yeah, we went through all this during the primaries. I seem to recall there were few Trump supporters here at the beginning and probably more NeverTrumps. The NeverTrumps converted some of us to ReluctantTrumpers and since then the Democrats and the media have made many of us actual Trump supporters. Amazing country, no?
Regardless of what was or wasn’t discussed during the primaries, regardless of who became a Trump supporter or a Never Trumper or a Reluctant Trumper, the fact remains that Trump was not a consistent conservative in the years leading up to his presidential run and Trump remains supportive of Bernie Sanders-ish policy ideas like mandatory paid family leave and single payer health care.
If we are going to call any Republican elected official a RINO, Trump clearly qualifies as one.
Who is making the argument that Trump is a conservative? I certainly haven’t.
Nice deflection of the point made.
Then Americans should be happy with the GOP. Even with 3 branches of government there is zero chance the GOP will do anything except what the Democrats want. I am not even sure why they bothered to run. They are like the dog that chased and caught a car and now have no clue what to do with it.
It’s not deflection. Conservatives can easily write a book about all of the different times they were disappointed by this Republican or that Republican on this or that public policy issue.
But for some reason when conservatives criticize Trump for being insufficiently conservative, we are told we are acting like Never Trumpers and/or the New York Times editorial page.
National Review has been accused of betraying conservatism because they have failed to defend Trump when he makes mistakes. Conservatives should not be silent while Trump is failing to provide the leadership conservatives desire.
We haven’t had any conservative options recently and I like what I’ve seen so far. I see your position as essentially the same bogus approach the Democrats tried to undo the election itself. You are certainly free to express your opinion but, as of now, you haven’t a leg to stand on in any official sense.
Nearly every Republican candidate for President during the 2015-2016 cycle had a record of not donating money to people like Chuck Schumer, Harry Reid and Hillary Clinton.
Nearly every Republican candidate for President during the 2015-2016 cycle had a record of not endorsing Barack Obama’s 2009 economic stimulus plan.
Nearly every Republican candidate for President during the 2015-2016 cycle had a record of not endorsing single payer health care and mandatory paid family leave.
On that basis we have had conservative options recently. Trump voters rejected those options in favor of a RINO. So, now Trump supporters are asking conservatives to blindly worship Trump.
For what purpose? If a President Jeb Bush praised single payer health care or mandatory paid family leave, would conservatives be obligated to withhold criticism?
Trump may be a RINO, he did not run on his record except as a winner. He won. You want him impeached for…?
Yes, Trump won in 2016. Barack Obama won in 2008 and 2012.
But conservatives were willing to criticize Obama when they disagreed with him. Since you admit that Trump is a RINO, conservatives are not obligated to withhold criticism of Trump.
I want Trump impeached for obstruction of justice. Before Trump supporters respond that this would only benefit the Left, it should be pointed out that Mike Pence would become president if Trump were removed from office. Pence does not have a record that includes endorsing Obama’s 2009 economic stimulus plan. Nor has Pence endorsed single payer health care or mandatory paid family leave.
I would agree that Republicans haven’t been as conservative as I would wish. But you said that conservatism’s brand, not Republicans, was “ruined”. This reminds me of Chesterton’s quote about Christianity (I might not have the exact words, but I think I’m close): “Christianity has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult, and left untried”. So too with conservatism: it hasn’t been tried and found wanting, it’s been found difficult — particularly because Americans like their entitlements — and left untried, or I should say, mixed up and moderated with the status quo.
Are you thus obligating yourself to support whoever wins a presidential election? Were you as full throated in your admiration of Obama? Would you have refrained from criticizing a President Hillary?