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A Dissenting Voice
I want to ask you a question. Do you gravitate to news that agrees with your point of view, be it political or other? Do you want to hear the dissenting voice? How important, as a Ricochet paying customer, is it important to you? While Ricochet promotes itself as a conservative blog, we know that the many members that make up this site are from varying backgrounds, to say the least.
We have all faiths or no faith, we have different education levels, incomes levels, political views. This site is promoted as primarily politically-leaning, yet we enjoy poets, photographers, comedians, artists, doctors, lawyers, journalists, TV personalities, military, and so forth. What makes it such an interesting site is there is a community atmosphere, where all views are welcome. You get to know personalities, personal challenges. We even pray for each other – that’s right. There are groups within groups, on every interest you can imagine. It’s all monitored by a code of conduct – called respect. The sky is the limit with regards to topic and discussion, but there are no personal attacks allowed. People become friends, and support each other.
A case in point is the support of @TitusTechera and his summer in America, a citizen of Romania. His trip was funded by members who wanted Titus to come to America. We wanted to share with him who we are, and show how much we value him. What would Ricochet be without Titus? Another example is our @Claire. I fell in love with her books, her talent, her writing by accident. My sister found her book Menace in Europe, in a pile of used books in a thrift shop in Amish country, small-town America (sorry Claire). She saw the book, bought other things, went back to her car, got out of the car and went back in and bought the book. She could not forget the cover or the story. My sister read it in amazement and shipped it to me in FL. She said you have to read this book!!
Since then, I’ve read Claire’s books, passed them to others, just recently lent a couple her book on Menace, and have followed her ever since. Many at Ricochet got behind her and encouraged her to write a sequel. It’s going to be great. We “Go funded” her project without hesitation, as both investors and donators. We wanted to be a part of it, her experience as a journalist writing it. That is why I invested and I do not regret it. A Ricochet member flew to Paris @KateBraestrup and watched her cats while she was on assignment for the book. This is what Ricochet is about. It’s political, it’s fiery sometimes, and its personal. I love (literally) the people on this site. I have yet to go to a Ricochet meet up, but can’t wait.
This brings me to my topic. What is important to you as a reader, writer, commenter in the framework of a conservative, mainly political leaning blog? Do digressing voices have value? How much value? If you are a Christian, do you want to hear from an atheist? If you are leaning alt-right, do you value the left-leaning conservative opinion? If you love history, do you feel an obligation to share your knowledge? To teach new generations, new members of Ricochet?
I am disturbed by several things. I voted for Trump in the primary, but I wanted Ted Cruz. I rode the wave, because to me Hillary was worse. I don’t regret that. To date, I am 50/50 on Trump, but it is a new presidency and there has been a lot to deal with in the post-Obama election period. Our country has problems that need fixing. So do other countries, that have for the most part, relied on the US to fix them. I also am disturbed by the press, what makes up our American journalists. I would love to see Hannity on the Rachel Maddow show. I want to see ideas duked out, rather than protests in the street that yield nothing but burned out Starbucks. The Milo thing, for example. To expose his ideas in the light of day deserves a forum, what a great idea, yet many denied that. Why?
I want to know if Ricochet members want that forum, the dissenting voice, informative posts where you learn something that completely surprises you, good or bad, and you want more? Or do you want to hear from people like you, who agree with you? Are you quick to criticize a digressing view? I am. I want to criticize less and learn more. I want to learn period. I want to hear from everyone.
Freedom of Speech – we may not have it one day.
Published in General
I’m going to sound like a Prager automaton, but my view is virtually identical to his: we’re swimming in the Left’s narrative — the deep end. Did you watch the Oscar’s last night?? Yeah, me neither.
This has been borne out in studies where conservatives are able to accurately reproduce liberal (left) positions and liberals don’t have a freaking clue what we think. That’s because they’ve exhausted all their mental energy on trying to pigeonhole us as SIXHIRB (sexist, intolerant, xenophobic, homophobic, Islamophobic, racist, bigoted) while simultaneously building up the impenetrable wall of their moral vanity.
There are exceptions. And, I won’t ever abandon my family who think this way. But, I’m not interested in engaging more of them in fora like Ricochet. The Left is a destructive force in America and the world. It shows no remorse for the wasteland it creates in urban areas and among individual lives. It doesn’t love the truth. And anyone inclined to conversion has to undergo an interior process anyway.
What Donald Trump has shown us on the Right is that we are at war. The Left has known this for decades.
I agree with your POV. Open discussion from a variety of views is how we each can learn more about an issue and get some understanding of what factual support those of different views are bringing.
I happen to think that those on the Right, or what we frequently term conservative, approach issues more logically and consistently than those of the Left, who frequently seem overtaken by notions of fairness or compassion, (this is my bias). That’s why it is so important to get at the factual foundation when presenting arguments supporting a point of view.
Two things in our society now generally inhibit this kind of process, public education and media. Diversity of thought is frowned on and that works to the almost total exclusion of conservative views in favor of Leftist or liberal views. We are at a stage now with the Trump Administration where some of this is being addressed. I like what Trump is doing with the media, not that he is always right or that the media is always fake, but there is more than enough of what Trump is fighting against. And that condition is founded in what goes on in early public education and then gets extreme on college campuses.
I joined Ricochet for this diversity of thought and discussion.
This is such an honest description. I feel the same way, fear the same things and have to work hard at not being political with friends to avoid fallings-out.
My wife and I had dinner with a neurosurgeon and her hubby last week, first social event together, and we took pains to avoid talking about current events. So, I suspect, did they.
I had lunch with my old research group a fortnight ago, one is Iranian. He knows my politics (having been to my home and seen the hanging flags and portraits of Washington and Reagan) and brought up Trump; I deflected and had another bite of food.
This began in 2009 when it became apparent that my liberal friends all supported policies that directly brought my business close to failure. They must hate me, no?
I know that’s not true, but the alternatives, ignorance and apathy, are little better.
Bravo. Amen.
I’ll listen to BBC and NPR at times. I don’t really enjoy talk radio that much anymore.
Of what? progressive statements? Or wise old souls who teach us something? Ricochet is full of the latter, so is Econ talk where there are interviews with serious left leaning economists who help clarify where the left is coming from. Roberts is good at bringing out their assumptions. The false narratives are just about everything I hear from the main stream media and self appointed pundits. Better to say what they get right, but I’ll have to think about that. When I was trying to sort out Colombia’s history of violence, the only historians I could find were marxists, but there were honest ones and dishonest ones. The honest ones provided useful data and history on which they then imposed marxist interpretations. That’s the right order. The dishonest ones collect information and data to fill the abstractions that float around in their heads. They have nothing to offer except to show us who they are which can be important because I’d also find recognized US scholars who clearly were of the second type.
I think the biggest problem with political discourse across a broad spectrum is the belief, probably on both sides, that certain questions have been investigated and decided. It is abundantly clear that broad swathes of the left believe that all good intelligent people believe certain things, so if one disagrees, it is evidence of stupidity or evil. It is harder on the right because our beliefs are constantly tested against the prevailing bias of the media, but there are elements of the same thing. It is exhausting though and I can only take so much. I used to enjoy a number of magazines that I can no longer handle because political conformity seemed to become more important than content. National Geographic and Scientific American are the ones I miss the most. My point is that, like many here, I don’t mind testing my thoughts and ideas. I think testing is critical. But I can’t stand being labelled and discarded. I think that the way out of the current spate of tribalism, which I find dismayingly fierce, is to learn to talk to people we disagree with and to try to establish some sort of common ground. Ricochet has been a great place to do that, especially since the unveiling of the faults within Conservatism that appeared during the last election. It would be very good if the civility practiced here were catchy.
Is the answer to block them out, like Trump seems to be doing? Does making them accountable mean better communication, even if it means they continue to report in error? I don’t think Bush had a great love for the press either, and he also had leaks, so he caught on and changed his relationship with them – but he kept the door open.
I agree. I just don’t want to be blind-sighted. Control of the media, and the press has been done by left and right wing agendas and leadership around the world many times – with disastrous results. How do we keep Trump administration accountable? Not at more rallies.
Good points – it’s a shame about National Geographic – but fight exhaustion!
I think they have to be made aware that there is a price for their abandonment of impartiality and verification of facts. Are they ‘blocked out’ or just not given the preference they have become accustomed to? Because in my mind, they lost the right to special treatment when they became partisan.
You can’t go day after day with stories that are full of innuendo and unsubstantiated assertions about the president and then object when the president no longer treats you like a premier news organization. Because you no longer are one!
I don’t like only inviting certain press over others. The argument that previous presidents did it is an argument against those previous presidents, not FOR the current one. I personally think the answer is to keep the floor open but continue to berate the media who is at fault. I can’t understand for the life of me why there hasn’t been a press conference solely for attacking the media’s lies. Just hold a presser, where Spicer reads lie after lie after lie and systematically points out how each one is false and at the end ask: “Why?” Why is the media doing this? What’s their goal? A presser like that could last hours, if not days, and all of us know it’s going on. Just keep shining light on it.
While I agree with Western Chauvinist’s point that we are swimming in a liberal culture, I still think we might benefit from hearing opposing views well-expressed. An moderate liberal Australian sci-fi author named John Birmingham had a column in the Brisbane Times, and writes well with a good sense of humor. I have recommended him in the past. One of his books, Weapons of Choice, is excellent sci-fi alternative WWII history, in my opinion.
Here is a sample: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/by/John-Birmingham-hvf2q
Various substantive points of view on any given issue are essential in a functional democracy. Those who disagree to varying degrees – even completely – often help hone or clarify arguments; I can be persuaded by a good argument. Can anyone on the left?
The problem in this country, as woefully evidenced by the all but complete intolerance of freedom of political speech on campuses, is that dissenting (from the Ricochet ‘mainstream’) substantive views are now quite rare. The left has refused substantive discussions for as long as I can remember and the MSM yawns. Expression of most any of our views on campus or in public today, by contrast, involves taking physical risks. Wear a red ball cap in a blue city at your peril!
Dissent is essential in a functional democracy. Unfortunately, we have neither. We live in a leftist authoritarian autocratic technocracy. What passes as dissent on the left is nothing more than increasingly-aggressive ad hominem attacks. The substantive answer to non-progressive policy suggestions is not “shut up you racist, homophobic, sexist, misogynistic,.etc., etc, etc…” Disputation of any issue is impossible when that is the only rejoinder and the MSM merely amplifies the calumny. That is why one side must eventually win, and the other side is showing us most every day that the likelihood of victory without violence is shrinking. What they are saying and doing is not dissent. It is incitement and, were we still a nation of laws, some would be prosecuted.
This is an example of exactly what I find maddening about the left. His information is taken from US media’s interpretation of Trump. Such people must be engaged personally, first to sort out fact from fiction, racism? who where? Closed the border? where? etc. I’m in Colombia right now where everybody gets their information from the US press as well. They believe almost everything they hear and read. And of course all I can do is point out appointments on the one hand and what has actually happened on the other, ignoring the tweets which feed the media frenzy. Colombians are indeed facing increased difficulty getting visas which could only have come as a gift from Obama to Trump because it began before there was a new Secretary of state and to get this kind of instruction implemented would take making not giving visas to our best ally in Latin America a high priority and then take a day or so. That sounds like Obama as well.
This is important. Much of the discourse from the left attacks straw men — products of the left’s fevered imagination about real positions on the right. Some of these strawmen / caricatures are constructed knowingly and deliberately and pointedly by activists on the left, not to engage in debate with the right, but to motivate the wobbly on the left to greater outrage and rejection of the ‘other’. I have no patience for people/sources doing this and cut them off peremptorily.
When I encounter people, generally in person, who are putting forth such arguments without understanding their true nature, I try to engage to break such people away from their misconceptions. Sometimes it is fruitful. Ricochet is a great place to engage with other views because the Code of Conduct constrains the foot-stomping and other emotional outbreaks that might otherwise disrupt exposure of these misconceptions. Ricochet is certainly the best place on the internet to do so, I think.
Excluding leftists from joining Ricochet would be a great tragedy, in my opinion. We’d never meet people like @katebraestrup — which would have been a tragedy, indeed. For her and us, in my not-so-humble opinion.
Any lefty who engages with conservatives (on Ricochet, especially) openly and honestly will not be a lefty for long. But, it takes courage, as one’s identity is so tied up in one’s beliefs and leftism is a religion.
My conversion journey started with admitting to myself that I might have been wrong about some very big things. That’s some scary ground to be standing on. Not to mention that you might alienate nearly everyone in your social circle (which wasn’t one of my hurdles, thankfully).
Totally agree. Yesterday was the first time in memory that I didn’t watch the Oscars as I knew full well that it would just be hours of Trump bashing from a group of self-righteous people who fully expect us to go see their movies despite the insults. We have plenty of center left Republicans on here without Democrats. We come to Ricochet as a place of refuge in a world dominated by left-wing culture and media.
I was thinking the same thing. I have avoided most mass media for many years, they haven’t had anything new to say for ever so long. I much prefer to read, I’m am hearing impaired and trying to follow a noisy newscast can be very frustrating because I miss so much of what’s being said. When I read the transcript of some fiery leftist speech, I find myself thinking all too often that I’ve read almost the very same words many times over. It’s as if they are quoting from some leftist manual that has a script for various situations, and opinions. I’m staying away from some Facebook friends for the same reason, they have no respect for my opinion, constantly quoting some tired rhetoric in opposition to whatever I say. Conversely, I’ve had some wonderful PM conversations with some of the people that a mutual liberal FB friend harassed. Ricochet is the first forum I have found that one can disagree without being bombarded with leftist rhetoric.
Of course! I want them to come here and be converted. (-:
And its also good for the curmudgeons among us conservatives to see such conversions happening. So they can succeed when they carry the torch to their circles, too. The media may at some far future date be on our side, but in the meantime us conservatives must be willing and able to spread the word ourselves.
I’m using my one month free membership, and I’ve been on this site for 3 days, engaged in some topics, and now gonna come clean: I am a liberal, and I am here because I want to expand my horizons on conservative perspectives. As a public health researcher, my flavor of progressiveness is rooted in social equality issues. I am a former moderate conservative, and became more and more liberal because of what I came to see as valid arguments from the left side. Added to that, I am a woman of color, and frankly, have received more respect in liberal spaces than in conservative spaces. Say what you will about making a broad statement like that, because my personal experience in those spaces was negative, upsetting, demeaning, unwelcoming, and not worth my time. I am hoping this place is different.
The reason why I am here is the conservative voices that do get filtered through my consumption of largely leftist media appear one dimensional, racist, and uninformed. And yet, I’m sure not everyone is like that. I’m here to see what intelligent, well-reasoned right perspectives are like.
I’m not sure how long I’ll stay on Ricochet, and am willing to pay to stay on. So far, I’m pleased that conversations have not dissolved into name calling, like my previous experiences. From comments here, it seems there is no consensus on whether I will be welcome or not. So, we’ll see.
Well, if you were here during the election period, it wasn’t fun. But things have quieted down, and as a (what I could like to call) a reasonable conservative, I think you’ll find many people like me. Welcome!
Well, first they’d have to be arrested, I suppose. The police are so cowed, they’re not even able to do their job in places like Berkeley.
You really think Trump is going to control the media? That he won’t be held accountable by the Left, the NeverTrump Right, the sieve-like bureaucracy? Meryl Streep (who’s been invited to the joint session tomorrow)?
Sorry, I just don’t see it. His opposition is more daunting than even Reagan faced. I think he has virtually no power to chill free speech and the free press the way the Left does on nearly every college campus and in every public forum (see congressional townhalls). The press was self-censoring under Obama, so one could argue they’re freer than ever!
As far as I’m concerned, you are totally welcome as long as you don’t try to convert me to be a lib. I think you’ll find Ricochet members judge people on the basis of what’s inside their brain, not by the color of their skin. It wasn’t even necessary for you to mention that. Your best bet is probably to get a feel for the conversations and posters before jumping in. If you disagree, do so with a reasoned argument. That’s what I did when I joined two years ago.
@danfield
Of course you are welcome here. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
You can put your feet into the fire of any conversation, or just “lurk.” Not all conversations are political.
I am curious about your work as a health researcher. That would be an interesting post.
If you read what I wrote earlier, you’re correct if you guess I’d rather not have a Leftist here. If you are comfortable being on the Left, I have no idea why you would want to spend any time or money hanging around a place like this. I wonder if you are merely looking for confirmation of your personal experience on other sites. I’ll just say that if I do discuss something with you, and we disagree, it isn’t because of the amount of pigment in your skin. I’ve never cared much about that, and I can’t stand people who do, on either side. I think this is true of the vast majority of Conservatives I have met in my life. I think I’ll tell a story about it.
I worked in a cube farm at a major corporation as a programmer. One of my better work-friends is a Conservative, and we talk often about politics. Most of the people I work with do not eat lunch out of the building, but I have never been a brown-bagger, so I usually hit one of the nearby drive-thru places for a burger or something, then eat while listening to talk-radio or the news.
One day, I heard great news on the radio. I went inside and found my friend, and proclaimed, “They picked Michael Steele! Woo hoo!” We high-fived at the news that a good, decent man had been chosen to run the Republican National Committee.
I still had a little time left for lunch, so I went back to my desk and opened CNN.com. There was the headline that changed my thinking forever: “Republicans choose first African-American chairperson of the RNC.” I thought “who cares about that?” And then came the answer that solidified my thinking: The Left does. They are obsessed with it.
You made me think of this story with your three paragraphs. Coming out as a person of the Left wasn’t enough for you. Why did you think anyone here cares about the amount of color in your skin?
You can trust me when I tell you that nobody on Ricochet cares about that, except you.