Would You Listen?

 

Two talented Nordic film makers — Hamy Remezan and Rungano Nyoni — have created a thought-provoking 12-minute film to immerse you in the world of a Muslim woman trying to escape domestic violence through the frustrating medium of a translator. I don’t want to spoil the ending, but this is an intense, harrowing short film that places you in the flip-side of a multicultural world.

https://vimeo.com/196593911

I’m curious if you end up agreeing with the film makers’ opinions on their own film, but we’ll leave that one for a separate post. In the meantime, enjoy the show.

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  1. JustmeinAZ Member
    JustmeinAZ
    @JustmeinAZ

    I. M. Fine (View Comment):
    I saw the son as the major character in the film. His dispassionate, almost robotic actions in this horrific circumstance constitute the most chilling (for me) aspect of the film. I felt he encapsulated the filmmakers’ point of view: there will be no change, no evolution, no exit — not when the next generation is completely disengaged — even deadened — to the present.

    Oh, I definitely agree with this. But it seemed that the mother felt that the father would kill both of them. I presume she was raised in the culture. So why did the mother not know what the son would do. Not really criticizing the film. It was just a slight disconnect for me.

    • #61
  2. RightAngles Member
    RightAngles
    @RightAngles

    JustmeinAZ (View Comment):

    I. M. Fine (View Comment):
    I saw the son as the major character in the film. His dispassionate, almost robotic actions in this horrific circumstance constitute the most chilling (for me) aspect of the film. I felt he encapsulated the filmmakers’ point of view: there will be no change, no evolution, no exit — not when the next generation is completely disengaged — even deadened — to the present.

    Oh, I definitely agree with this. But it seemed that the mother felt that the father would kill both of them. I presume she was raised in the culture. So why did the mother not know what the son would do. Not really criticizing the film. It was just a slight disconnect for me.

    I wondered too, but then I thought being his mom overrode everything else, and I don’t think she thought he’d call his dad to come get him. I felt like she hoped if she got him away from that culture, she could raise him to be different.

    • #62
  3. I. M. Fine Inactive
    I. M. Fine
    @IMFine

    JustmeinAZ (View Comment):

    I. M. Fine (View Comment):
    I saw the son as the major character in the film. His dispassionate, almost robotic actions in this horrific circumstance constitute the most chilling (for me) aspect of the film. I felt he encapsulated the filmmakers’ point of view: there will be no change, no evolution, no exit — not when the next generation is completely disengaged — even deadened — to the present.

    Oh, I definitely agree with this. But it seemed that the mother felt that the father would kill both of them. I presume she was raised in the culture. So why did the mother not know what the son would do. Not really criticizing the film. It was just a slight disconnect for me.

    You’re absolutely right. We don’t know why the mother was as disconnected from her son as the son was from his mother. We also don’t know how long the abuse was going on. (My guess – given the son’s age – is it was many years.) We (the audience) are left to try to understand this family through our own cultural lens — and it leaves us puzzled, even angry. I do not know these gifted filmmakers, but the dialogue we are currently having on this thread is probably exactly what they hoped their film would inspire!

    • #63
  4. I. M. Fine Inactive
    I. M. Fine
    @IMFine

    RightAngles (View Comment):

    JustmeinAZ (View Comment):

    I. M. Fine (View Comment):
    I saw the son as the major character in the film. His dispassionate, almost robotic actions in this horrific circumstance constitute the most chilling (for me) aspect of the film. I felt he encapsulated the filmmakers’ point of view: there will be no change, no evolution, no exit — not when the next generation is completely disengaged — even deadened — to the present.

    Oh, I definitely agree with this. But it seemed that the mother felt that the father would kill both of them. I presume she was raised in the culture. So why did the mother not know what the son would do. Not really criticizing the film. It was just a slight disconnect for me.

    I wondered too, but then I thought being his mom overrode everything else, and I don’t think she thought he’d call his dad to come get him. I felt like she hoped if she got him away from that culture, she could raise him to be different.

    Let me throw another stone in the pond. The mother continually says that the father also threatened to kill his son. Do you believe her? Could that be true? Would a father in this culture consider killing his (presumably) eldest male child? Or was this a ploy by the mother to elicit assistance?

    • #64
  5. JustmeinAZ Member
    JustmeinAZ
    @JustmeinAZ

    I. M. Fine (View Comment):
    Let me throw another stone in the pond. The mother continually says that the father also threatened to kill his son. Do you believe her? Could that be true? Would a father in this culture consider killing his (presumably) eldest male child? Or was this a ploy by the mother to elicit assistance?

    That crossed my mind also. I vote for ploy angle, but I’d really like to know what the film makers had in mind.

    Typically I don’t give much of a rat’s behind about “film” but I thought this one was quite well done, especially the repetition showing the different points of view. I hope it is widely seen.

    • #65
  6. RightAngles Member
    RightAngles
    @RightAngles

    I. M. Fine (View Comment):

    RightAngles (View Comment):

    JustmeinAZ (View Comment):

    Oh, I definitely agree with this. But it seemed that the mother felt that the father would kill both of them. I presume she was raised in the culture. So why did the mother not know what the son would do. Not really criticizing the film. It was just a slight disconnect for me.

    I wondered too, but then I thought being his mom overrode everything else, and I don’t think she thought he’d call his dad to come get him. I felt like she hoped if she got him away from that culture, she could raise him to be different.

    Let me throw another stone in the pond. The mother continually says that the father also threatened to kill his son. Do you believe her? Could that be true? Would a father in this culture consider killing his (presumably) eldest male child? Or was this a ploy by the mother to elicit assistance?

    That struck me too. I didn’t believe the son would be in danger at all.

    *edit* – Did she know enough about Western culture to know that it would add to the urgency? Or did she feel she had to add him because nobody from any culture would care if a mere woman were in mortal danger?

    • #66
  7. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    I think the abusive husband threatened to kill the son in order to scare the Mom. I don’t think the son knows about this or the threat that was made against his Mom’s life.

    I didn’t think that the son was OK with the violence against his Mom but quite often in situations like this (among non-Muslim children with abusive parents as well) violence and abuse become normalized the kids become numb to it. It sounds weird but I have heard that from interviews with adults that all sorts of horrible stuff that happened to them in their childhood didn’t seem unusual.

    On a completely different matter, in tribal culture, you can never trust an outsider with intra-tribal stuff. Native-American women and children who are abused by Native men also feel that they are traitors if they seek assistance from a non-Native Church or friend.

    IMO tribal culture is almost always bad and I really wish I could see the statistics comparing the rate of Christian-Arab violence against women and Muslim-Arab rates of violence against women.

    • #67
  8. I. M. Fine Inactive
    I. M. Fine
    @IMFine

    RightAngles (View Comment):

    I. M. Fine (View Comment):

    RightAngles (View Comment):

    JustmeinAZ (View Comment):

    Oh, I definitely agree with this. But it seemed that the mother felt that the father would kill both of them.

    I wondered too, but then I thought being his mom overrode everything else.

    Let me throw another stone in the pond. The mother continually says that the father also threatened to kill his son. Do you believe her? Could that be true? Would a father in this culture consider killing his (presumably) eldest male child? Or was this a ploy by the mother to elicit assistance?

    That struck me too. I didn’t believe the son would be in danger at all.

    *edit* – Did she know enough about Western culture to know that it would add to the urgency? Or did she feel she had to add him because nobody from any culture would care if a mere woman were in mortal danger?

    Yes to both questions. (imho) The fact that the mother brought her son with her attests to the fact that she was very aware of her cultural environment and her circumstantial obstacles. She is a formidable character! (And for what it’s worth, the filmmakers actually left me with hope for her individual future…although not as much for the culture as a whole.)

    • #68
  9. I. M. Fine Inactive
    I. M. Fine
    @IMFine

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    I think the abusive husband threatened to kill the son in order to scare the Mom. I don’t think the son knows about this or the threat that was made against his Mom’s life.

    I didn’t think that the son was OK with the violence against his Mom but quite often in situations like this (among non-Muslim children with abusive parents as well) violence and abuse become normalized the kids become numb to it. It sounds weird but I have heard that from interviews with adults that all sorts of horrible stuff that happened to them in their childhood didn’t seem unusual.

    On a completely different matter, in tribal culture, you can never trust an outsider with intra-tribal stuff. Native-American women and children who are abused by Native men also feel that they are traitors if they seek assistance from a non-Native Church or friend.

    IMO tribal culture is almost always bad and I really wish I could see the statistics comparing the rate of Christian-Arab violence against women and Muslim-Arab rates of violence against women.

    Great insights…especially about familial behaviors across cultures. This may well be why the film struck such a strong chord with the current audience. We recognize far more than we may be able to consciously admit.

    • #69
  10. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    I think the boy thinks that he really can defend the mother. She knows he can’t, and that he’s in danger too.

    He’s not betraying his mom. He really doesn’t fully comprehend the situation. He’s just a kid after all.

    • #70
  11. I. M. Fine Inactive
    I. M. Fine
    @IMFine

    Alright, Pointy Eared et al. The time has come. What ARE the filmmakers’ opinions on their own film?

    • #71
  12. Simon Templar Member
    Simon Templar
    @

    I. M. Fine (View Comment):
    And for what it’s worth, the filmmakers actually left me with hope for her individual future…

    Just the opposite for me.  I think she realized that all hope was lost, and that she was being returned to her slaveowner to be slashed to death by him.

    • #72
  13. Nanda Panjandrum Member
    Nanda Panjandrum
    @

    I have to admit that I couldn’t watch this…Though I’m not by any means in circumstances approximating hers, the helplessness and inability to effect a change, have been at least nodding acquaintances of mine over the past year or so…Maybe I’ll try again when it doesn’t strike so close to home for me.

    • #73
  14. drlorentz Member
    drlorentz
    @drlorentz

    I. M. Fine (View Comment):
    Alright, Pointy Eared et al. The time has come. What ARE the filmmakers’ opinions on their own film?

    You must have missed Mama Toad’s comment that had a link to the interview.

    • #74
  15. I. M. Fine Inactive
    I. M. Fine
    @IMFine

    drlorentz (View Comment):

    I. M. Fine (View Comment):
    Alright, Pointy Eared et al. The time has come. What ARE the filmmakers’ opinions on their own film?

    You must have missed Mama Toad’s comment that had a link to the interview.

    I did. Thank you very much!

    • #75
  16. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Simon Templar (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):
    Also, after 911 I thought we should offer full scholarships to anyone who studied Arabic, Farsi, Urdu etc who wasn’t a Muslim. I know, tough to do “religious test” etc, but we are at war, and we need as much correct intel as we can get. No point in training Nazi’s to translate German….

    Not so fast there Buckwheat. I have an Army buddy who was with the 101st Airborne and fluent in Farsi. He got out and went on to get his PhD in Middle Eastern/Islamic (something like that) studies and used to advise our Special Ops guys about stuff. When the Obama regime came in they cut his contract and most of the guys like him, and put in their place “real” experts who were hand selected by CAIR, Moslem Brotherhood, and other pro-western Islamic front groups. Google it.

    Thanks for reinforcing my point.

    • #76
  17. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Leigh (View Comment):
    Like my friend. A woman whose husband supports her continuing education — her desire to master English beyond the mere needs of survival. Intelligent, independent, with a charming sense of humor. A woman who has built friendships and relationships outside her own religious background. A couple who are earning their way and raising their English-speaking children in a supportive, affectionate, two-parent household. Precisely the kind of immigrant — the kind of American — we’ve always valued.

    All great.

    BUT.

    What is her feeling on Sharia?

    Does she believe Islam is destined to rule the world?

    Is she a muslim first and foremost or an American?

     

    • #77
  18. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    You know who I want to bring in as refugees? Venezuelans. People who know what happens when soft socialism goes hard.

    No thanks. How are you going to separate the Moduro supporters from the others?

    I’ve met lots of people from the former USSR and East Germany who are nostalgic for the “good old days”….

    Don’t see lots new conservative voters in those choices either…

     

    • #78
  19. RightAngles Member
    RightAngles
    @RightAngles

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    You know who I want to bring in as refugees? Venezuelans. People who know what happens when soft socialism goes hard.

    No thanks. How are you going to separate the Moduro supporters from the others?

    I’ve met lots of people from the former USSR and East Germany who are nostalgic for the “good old days”….

    Don’t see lots new conservative voters in those choices either…

    Also, their government tells them that the privations they’re experiencing are because of American policies.

    • #79
  20. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Ricochet talks alot about Islam but I often think that the problems in Islamic countries are more tribal than theological. My main beef with Islam isn’t so much with the founding texts but that Islam has not addressed how bad tribal cultures are for children, women and minorities.

    Sikhism for example has a pretty good foundational document for establishing equality between the sexes but it fails to squelch the violence and misogyny of Punjabi culture.

    I read about two honour killings in the UK by Sikhs. The nature of their savagery was exactly the same as when honour killings are done by Pakistani Muslims. Perhaps what was most chilling was a middle-class Sikh Grandma arranging the death of her daughter-in-law because she wanted to divorce her son.

    Sikhs also practice female foeticide in both the Punjab province of India and Canada.

    A number of Syrian refugees do bring with them a savage culture but I think the savagery might be drawn from a tribal culture rather than Islam. Sikh violence against women seems exactly the same. Women don’t count for anything (despite explicit proclamations made by Gurus) and if a women brings your family dishonour killing her regains honour. Furthermore, women are weirdly cooperative in their subjugation and abuse.

    If anyone gets any information about the rates of violence that Druze or Christian Syrians do compared to Muslims please let me know.

    • #80
  21. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    RightAngles (View Comment):
    Also, their government tells them that the privations they’re experience are because of American policies.

    Maybe we should let them in if they can pass an economics test. This of course rests on the presumption that power hungry leftists won’t corrupt the test.

    • #81
  22. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    I Walton (View Comment):
    This is very painful to watch. So tell me again, why do we want more Muslim immigrants and refugees?

    Exactly my thought.  Even if Islam is reformable (and they would have to reform their sacred texts) why would we want that reform to happen in our country?

    • #82
  23. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Simon Templar (View Comment):

    I. M. Fine (View Comment):
    And for what it’s worth, the filmmakers actually left me with hope for her individual future…

    Just the opposite for me. I think she realized that all hope was lost, and that she was being returned to her slaveowner to be slashed to death by him.

    I agree with Simon.  That’s how I understood the ending.

    • #83
  24. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Percival (View Comment):
    I think the boy thinks that he really can defend the mother. She knows he can’t, and that he’s in danger too.

    He’s not betraying his mom. He really doesn’t fully comprehend the situation. He’s just a kid after all.

    That’s how I saw it too.

    • #84
  25. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):
    I feel physically ill. I know these things happen. There is no one to help a woman in these straits. I’m heartbroken and angry.

    Me too.

    • #85
  26. Leigh Inactive
    Leigh
    @Leigh

    Kozak (View Comment):

     

    All great.

    BUT.

    What is her feeling on Sharia?

    Does she believe Islam is destined to rule the world?

    Is she a muslim first and foremost or an American?

    I’ve never brought up politics or theology. But her life and general opinions and behavior aren’t consistent with such beliefs — which is as much as I really care to say on the internet.

    But I will add something else: we need to remember that when such ideologies try to become widespread they run up against human nature. Islamic teaching appeals to something in human nature — or it would be no danger at all — but it also runs sharply against other human instincts and desires. When we suspect every “moderate Muslim” of being secretly radical — and especially when cultural or political leaders talk in those terms — I think we’re in error. When we examine their rationalizations I think we forget how that plays into it. For our own sakes — and I’m not specifically referring to immigrants here — we want to appeal to those instincts and to strengthen those who are uncomfortable with — or have doubts about — the radical ideology they’re raised in.

    When the message we send is “we think you’re actually all like them” it pushes them in the other direction. That’s human nature, too.

    • #86
  27. I. M. Fine Inactive
    I. M. Fine
    @IMFine

    Manny (View Comment):

    Simon Templar (View Comment):

    I. M. Fine (View Comment):
    And for what it’s worth, the filmmakers actually left me with hope for her individual future…

    Just the opposite for me. I think she realized that all hope was lost, and that she was being returned to her slaveowner to be slashed to death by him.

    I agree with Simon. That’s how I understood the ending.

    I understand completely why the ending strikes you this way…unless you see this visit to the police as her first step forward; that her ability to finally take action – any action – even action that was thwarted this time – will result in future action, with perhaps a more positive outcome. Because the filmmakers let us connect the dots in the plot (and didn’t, as they said, “spoon feed” us all the details), different viewers can interpret the story differently. Amazing what just 11 minutes of great storytelling can inspire, isn’t it.

    • #87
  28. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    I. M. Fine (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Simon Templar (View Comment):

    I. M. Fine (View Comment):
    And for what it’s worth, the filmmakers actually left me with hope for her individual future…

    Just the opposite for me. I think she realized that all hope was lost, and that she was being returned to her slaveowner to be slashed to death by him.

    I agree with Simon. That’s how I understood the ending.

    I understand completely why the ending strikes you this way…unless you see this visit to the police as her first step forward; that her ability to finally take action – any action – even action that was thwarted this time – will result in future action, with perhaps a more positive outcome.

    Future action?  Her next future action may be in a grave.

    • #88
  29. I. M. Fine Inactive
    I. M. Fine
    @IMFine

    Manny (View Comment):

    I. M. Fine (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Simon Templar (View Comment):

    I. M. Fine (View Comment):
    And for what it’s worth, the filmmakers actually left me with hope for her individual future…

    Just the opposite for me. I think she realized that all hope was lost, and that she was being returned to her slaveowner to be slashed to death by him.

    I agree with Simon. That’s how I understood the ending.

    I understand completely why the ending strikes you this way…unless you see this visit to the police as her first step forward; that her ability to finally take action – any action – even action that was thwarted this time – will result in future action, with perhaps a more positive outcome.

    Future action? Her next future action may be in a grave.

    Maybe. We’ll never really know, of course. But here’s what I love about this story. Both interpretations (of the ending) can spur the same response in the viewer — deep engagement and conviction that her circumstance must change.

    • #89
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