Reconciliation

 

I voted early yesterday. It was my day off, so I got up a little late, ate breakfast, and went down to the courthouse, where I spent about 45 minutes in line. I’d been telling myself that I would not vote for Trump. I have “known” him for many years. Many of my grad school classmates of twenty-some years ago discussed him and his book Art of the Deal. I’ve seen him schlepp for a casino in Indiana then skulk away when it was apparent Hoosiers weren’t ready for Trump style business. More lately, I’ve seen him run for president. I’ve never liked him and vowed that I wouldn’t vote for the man. From the get-go, I saw him as someone out for his self interests, and that others would become tools for fulfilling those interests if they supported him.

But then there’s Hillary Clinton. What can I say? Gullible at best, probably incompetent, certainly politically sociopathic. When I speak of Trump, I have to take a shower. But when I even think of Clinton as president, I want to vomit. So, when I walked into that voting booth, I broke down, compromised my principles, and voted Trump. Probably voted for Trump because of my principles. I couldn’t stomach the thought that I would have done nothing to try to get in the way of Clinton becoming having president. 

I only have hope that, for the next few years, I will be taking a lot of showers and not driving the porcelain bus.

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  1. HeartofAmerica Inactive
    HeartofAmerica
    @HeartofAmerica

    dukenaltum:Maybe you did the right thing but I still think it will be easier and more effective for preserving liberty to destroy a corrupt overreaching Clinton Presidency and the Left as a movement than be corrupted by Trump.

    Being against something evil is an ethically sane choice over becoming something evil hoping to reform it.

    Given what we know regarding the number of people in high places within (and outside)  the government who are either of the same ilk, beholden, or afraid to cross the Clinton’s, not sure how we go about destroying the Clinton’s and the Left if there is a) a Clinton in office b) her cronies in office or c) all the above.  Basically I don’t think there is anyone there to get the job done.

    • #31
  2. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    dukenaltum:Maybe you did the right thing but I still think it will be easier and more effective for preserving liberty to destroy a corrupt overreaching Clinton Presidency and the Left as a movement than be corrupted by Trump.

    Being against something evil is an ethically sane choice over becoming something evil hoping to reform it.

    Help me out with this. Are you suggesting that by voting for Trump I, and other Republicans, become de facto evil?

    The act of choosing between one of the two major party candidates is “becoming something evil”

    I hope this is not your meaning so I am asking you to flush this out a little more.

     

    • #32
  3. Wolverine Inactive
    Wolverine
    @Wolverine

    I heard that in polling 85% of Democrats are supporting Hillary as opposed to 75% of Republicans supporting Trump. If enough Republicans change their mind in the voting booth like you did than Trump can win this election (I hope).

    • #33
  4. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Wolverine:I heard that in polling 85% of Democrats are supporting Hillary as opposed to 75% of Republicans supporting Trump. If enough Republicans change their mind in the voting booth like you did than Trump can win this election (I hope).

    At least two polls in the last week have them dead even on party support at 89-90%

    • #34
  5. Freesmith Member
    Freesmith
    @

    Pencilvania:I heard Trump speak last week at a rally near me.

    He loves the country.

    You were there too?

     

    • #35
  6. Carol Member
    Carol
    @

    dukenaltum: Maybe you did the right thing but I still think it will be easier and more effective for preserving liberty to destroy a corrupt overreaching Clinton Presidency and the Left as a movement than be corrupted by Trump.

    I would agree with you if you could present a plan to achieve that. The truth is that no matter how corrupt and how awful she is, it will be 8 years.

    • #36
  7. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    “…so I voted for Trump…” God Bless you, I pray you are of the millions–many tens of millions.

    • #37
  8. John Russell Coolidge
    John Russell
    @JohnRussell

    Curt North:The other option is to cast a “moral” vote for McMullin or Johnson, then pray she accomplishes NONE of the things she talks about, after you just assisted in her election victory.

    I have three problems with this analysis. First, while I have nothing against prayer there are worldly options available, such as a Convention of the States under Article V of the Constitution—indeed, the blowback from a Clinton presidency might well encourage support for such a convention. Secondly, if a decision not to vote for Trump amounts to an assist to Hillary, would it not follow that a decision not to vote for Hillary amounts to an assist to Trump? I am happy to grant an assist to Trump of the latter kind. Thirdly—and most importantly—I subscribe to the notion that my vote for a candidate for President of the United States is a statement of my willingness for that candidate to wield power over me, my family, and, indeed everybody else.  My opposition to Hillary—no matter how great—does not cause Trump to become a person fit to wield that power.  Such considerations motivated me to vote for McMullin day before yesterday.  For the record, I respect anyone who votes according to his or her conscience regardless of the candidate for whom he or she votes.

    • #38
  9. Bkelley14 Inactive
    Bkelley14
    @Bkelley14

    I don’t worry about my “conscience” too much. I want to defeat the leftists! I will vote Trump.

    • #39
  10. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Bkelley14:I don’t worry about my “conscience” too much. I want to defeat the leftists! I will vote Trump.

    I use the Hitler/Mussolini analogy.  If I knew one of the two was going to be the next president of the US, I’d vote for Mussolini.  And I’m not even Italian.

    • #40
  11. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Pencilvania:I heard Trump speak last week at a rally near me.

    He loves the country.

    It’s a low bar, but Globalist Hillary can’t even get her cankles over it.

    You done good.

    I heard him at a rally in NY last spring. What I’ve seen on media doesn’t quite match that. There was no violence at the rally itself, just carloads of a$&hats stirring up trouble.

    #NeverHillary: Join the Wave, A Tsunami of B!tchSlaps are heading your way.

    • #41
  12. Michael Stopa Member
    Michael Stopa
    @MichaelStopa

    Congratulations! I’m sure it was a hard decision.

    • #42
  13. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Michael Stopa:Congratulations! I’m sure it was a hard decision.

    Really? Why?

    • #43
  14. Brian Wolf Inactive
    Brian Wolf
    @BrianWolf

    Basil Fawlty:

    Bkelley14:I don’t worry about my “conscience” too much. I want to defeat the leftists! I will vote Trump.

    I use the Hitler/Mussolini analogy. If I knew one of the two was going to be the next president of the US, I’d vote for Mussolini. And I’m not even Italian.

    Yeah voting for Mussolini got them Hitler in the end.

    • #44
  15. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Brian Wolf:

    Basil Fawlty:

    Bkelley14:I don’t worry about my “conscience” too much. I want to defeat the leftists! I will vote Trump.

    I use the Hitler/Mussolini analogy. If I knew one of the two was going to be the next president of the US, I’d vote for Mussolini. And I’m not even Italian.

    Yeah voting for Mussolini got them Hitler in the end.

    But what would voting for Hitler have gotten them in the beginning?

    • #45
  16. John Russell Coolidge
    John Russell
    @JohnRussell

    Basil Fawlty:

    Brian Wolf:

    Basil Fawlty:

    Bkelley14:I don’t worry about my “conscience” too much. I want to defeat the leftists! I will vote Trump.

    I use the Hitler/Mussolini analogy. If I knew one of the two was going to be the next president of the US, I’d vote for Mussolini. And I’m not even Italian.

    Yeah voting for Mussolini got them Hitler in the end.

    But what would voting for Hitler have gotten them in the beginning?

    Who favored voting for Hitler in the beginning? I’m confused here.

    • #46
  17. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    John Russell:

    Basil Fawlty:

    Brian Wolf:

    Basil Fawlty:

    Bkelley14:I don’t worry about my “conscience” too much. I want to defeat the leftists! I will vote Trump.

    I use the Hitler/Mussolini analogy. If I knew one of the two was going to be the next president of the US, I’d vote for Mussolini. And I’m not even Italian.

    Yeah voting for Mussolini got them Hitler in the end.

    But what would voting for Hitler have gotten them in the beginning?

    Who favored voting for Hitler in the beginning? I’m confused here.

    If voting for Trump will get you Hillary in the end, then voting for Hillary will get you Hillary in the beginning.

    • #47
  18. Guruforhire Inactive
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    If the choice is the fascist who hates me and my family, and the fascist who doesn’t, that is a pretty simple choice to make.  Sign me up for a pair of jackboots.

    I would totally have been the guy knocking over the Joads house with a tractor too.  He had a sammich in his lunch pail.  You know who didn’t have a sammich: The Joads.

    • #48
  19. Brian Wolf Inactive
    Brian Wolf
    @BrianWolf

    Basil Fawlty:

    Brian Wolf:

    Basil Fawlty:

    Bkelley14:I don’t worry about my “conscience” too much. I want to defeat the leftists! I will vote Trump.

    I use the Hitler/Mussolini analogy. If I knew one of the two was going to be the next president of the US, I’d vote for Mussolini. And I’m not even Italian.

    Yeah voting for Mussolini got them Hitler in the end.

    But what would voting for Hitler have gotten them in the beginning?

    Hitler. So they ended up in the same spot because Hitler and Mussolini were really not opposed to each other.  If you didn’t want Hitler you had to oppose Mussolini too.

    • #49
  20. Brian Wolf Inactive
    Brian Wolf
    @BrianWolf

    Basil Fawlty:

    John Russell:

    Basil Fawlty:

    Brian Wolf:

    Basil Fawlty:

    Bkelley14:I don’t worry about my “conscience” too much. I want to defeat the leftists! I will vote Trump.

    I use the Hitler/Mussolini analogy. If I knew one of the two was going to be the next president of the US, I’d vote for Mussolini. And I’m not even Italian.

    Yeah voting for Mussolini got them Hitler in the end.

    But what would voting for Hitler have gotten them in the beginning?

    Who favored voting for Hitler in the beginning? I’m confused here.

    If voting for Trump will get you Hillary in the end, then voting for Hillary will get you Hillary in the beginning.

    So oppose both. I don’t want either one of them.

    • #50
  21. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Brian Wolf:

    Basil Fawlty:

    John Russell:

    Basil Fawlty:

    Brian Wolf:

    Basil Fawlty:

    Bkelley14:I don’t worry about my “conscience” too much. I want to defeat the leftists! I will vote Trump.

    I use the Hitler/Mussolini analogy. If I knew one of the two was going to be the next president of the US, I’d vote for Mussolini. And I’m not even Italian.

    Yeah voting for Mussolini got them Hitler in the end.

    But what would voting for Hitler have gotten them in the beginning?

    Who favored voting for Hitler in the beginning? I’m confused here.

    If voting for Trump will get you Hillary in the end, then voting for Hillary will get you Hillary in the beginning.

    So oppose both. I don’t want either one of them.

    But the premise was that one would win.  So you get one even if you want neither.  What do you do?

    • #51
  22. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    RushBabe49:Hillary the Harpy despises us (us being the everyday American people). Trump admires us. No contest.

    Trump admires only Trump (with the possible exceptions of a dictator or two).

    • #52
  23. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    6foot2inhighheels:I would much rather spend the next four years trying to control Trump than I would Hillary. If Hillary is elected, the writing is on the wall for us activists, whom she considers a criminal element; the vast right wing conspiracy.

    My problem with this is I think Republicans will have more success opposing Hillary than they will controlling Trump the Dealmaker.  He refers to Pelosi and Reid as friends he can work with….a statement any other Republican would be drawn and quartered after making.  As far as political opposition goes, Trump also openly brags about using the power of the federal government to go after his critics so I would doubt opposition to either will be a bed of roses.  I also think that the populism/nationalism/statism of Trump’s message along with the conspiratorial elements of some of his ardent supporters (the infowars wing) are not compatible with conservatism and will rupture the party even more than it is now.  It also is convincing many voters that all the crap the the media has been saying about Republicans has been right all along which can do very long term damage to the “brand”.  Of course many hardcore Trump supporters have been vocal about destroying the GOP all along so that won’t disappoint them.

    On a personal level, when I hear Hannity rail about anyone not towing the line needing to OWN IT, learn of Brietbart.com’s collusion with a liberal activist to go after Rubio’s campaign and Michelle Fields, read Lou Dobb’s idiotic rant on twitter about the “Mormon Mafia” referring to Evan McMullin, etc etc….. I want Trump to lose by a huge margin, his “conservative” media enablers and apologists to be shamed and all his name calling twitter trolls to go back to their mom’s basement where they belong.

    After all that, I still respect the decision described in the OP as honorable and obviously an attempt at making the best of a bad situation.  2016 is a disaster but our country has survived worse and we still have Ricochet  :)

    • #53
  24. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Concretevol:

    6foot2inhighheels:I would much rather spend the next four years trying to control Trump than I would Hillary. If Hillary is elected, the writing is on the wall for us activists, whom she considers a criminal element; the vast right wing conspiracy.

    My problem with this is I think Republicans will have more success opposing Hillary than they will controlling Trump the Dealmaker. He refers to Pelosi and Reid as friends he can work with….a statement any other Republican would be drawn and quartered after making. As far as political opposition goes, Trump also openly brags about using the power of the federal government to go after his critics so I would doubt opposition to either will be a bed of roses. I also think that the populism/nationalism/statism of Trump’s message along with the conspiratorial elements of some of his ardent supporters (the infowars wing) are not compatible with conservatism and will rupture the party even more than it is now. It also is convincing many voters that all the crap the the media has been saying about Republicans has been right all along which can do very long term damage to the “brand”. Of course many hardcore Trump supporters have been vocal about destroying the GOP all along so that won’t disappoint them.

    On a personal level, when I hear Hannity rail about anyone not towing the line needing to OWN IT, learn of Brietbart.com’s collusion with a liberal activist to go after Rubio’s campaign and Michelle Fields, read Lou Dobb’s idiotic rant on twitter about the “Mormon Mafia” referring to Evan McMullin, etc etc….. I want Trump to lose by a huge margin, his “conservative” media enablers and apologists to be shamed and all his name calling twitter trolls to go back to their mom’s basement where they belong.

    After all that, I still respect the decision described in the OP as honorable and obviously an attempt at making the best of a bad situation. 2016 is a disaster but our country has survived worse and we still have Ricochet

    Not sure why you think we will still have Ricochet.  HRC has made it very clear that the Citzen United ruling will be not enforced and will be over turned.  Do you think a corporation that criticizes her in a public manner such as Ricochet will be allowed to continue without sanction?  That she will allow the dark money that funds it to continue?  I have my doubts.

    • #54
  25. Freesmith Member
    Freesmith
    @

    Fake John/Jane Galt:

    Concretevol:

    My problem with this is I think Republicans will have more success opposing Hillary than they will controlling Trump the Dealmaker.

    After all that, I still respect the decision described in the OP as honorable and obviously an attempt at making the best of a bad situation. 2016 is a disaster but our country has survived worse and we still have Ricochet

    Not sure why you think we will still have Ricochet. HRC has made it very clear that the Citizen United ruling will be not enforced and will be over turned. Do you think a corporation that criticizes her in a public manner such as Ricochet will be allowed to continue without sanction?

    It’s worse than that. Conservatism, Inc. is now united with the Democratic Party in the belief that talk radio is just too disruptive a force for a sane politics.

    Please read David Brooks’ column today for just the most recent example of this kind of thinking. He is hardly alone. Charlie Sykes, a talk radio veteran, has similar complaints.

    It is easily within the realm of possibility that the Republican leadership in Congress will act in concert with their Democratic friends in a Clinton administration to revive the Fairness Doctrine or some close relative of that limitation on free expression. Their interests intersect.

    We always have National Public Radio, don’t we?

    • #55
  26. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Freesmith: We always have National Public Radio, don’t we?

    And Paris.

    • #56
  27. TKC1101 Member
    TKC1101
    @

    Basil Fawlty: And Paris.

    Paris Hilton gets a show on NPR under a Hillary regime? Alert the media!

    • #57
  28. John Russell Coolidge
    John Russell
    @JohnRussell

    Basil Fawlty:

    Brian Wolf:

    Basil Fawlty:

    John Russell:

    Basil Fawlty:

    Brian Wolf:

    Basil Fawlty:

    Bkelley14:I don’t worry about my “conscience” too much. I want to defeat the leftists! I will vote Trump.

    I use the Hitler/Mussolini analogy. If I knew one of the two was going to be the next president of the US, I’d vote for Mussolini. And I’m not even Italian.

    Yeah voting for Mussolini got them Hitler in the end.

    But what would voting for Hitler have gotten them in the beginning?

    Who favored voting for Hitler in the beginning? I’m confused here.

    If voting for Trump will get you Hillary in the end, then voting for Hillary will get you Hillary in the beginning.

    So oppose both. I don’t want either one of them.

    But the premise was that one would win. So you get one even if you want neither. What do you do?

    Vote your conscience.

    • #58
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