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No Jews Speech
The US State Department condemned this speech. The message from State was that “it is wrong to say we support ethnic cleansing when what we really want is just to see all of the Jews eliminated from the region . . . one way or another.”**
** May not be an exact quote, but it expresses the same sentiment.
Published in General
Going back to pre-1948, I don’t think Israel was a highly developed piece of land, even though it was always available, but not desirable. Once it was re-established as the original Jewish homeland, it came to life. Not only with industry, research, medicine, enormous agriculture, schools, but the only democracy in the entire Middle East. As small as it is in comparison to the entire Middle East, it just sat; not even Muslims saw it as that important, attractive or interesting. The Dome was not the center of Islam. The ruins sat, and even tourism was hardly thriving. Only after 1948, did all of a sudden, this tiny plot of land become relevant to Muslims. It was always relevant to Christians, but came back to life as a thriving country when the Jews returned to it. Even then, it had no army to speak of and was attacked. Palestinians and Christians lived side by side with the Jews, but correct me if I am wrong, everyone benefited by the return. If I am wrong, why?
Just in the news today
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2016/09/12/rare-discovery-ancient-synagogue-mosaic-may-depict-alexander-great.html
shows a new discovery about Jewish history – really fascinating. I wonder with perspective to current events, if Syrians could not return to Syria for two thousand years, and one day the international community said they are dispersed throughout the world due to war, yet their heritage is in Syria and they were allowed to return to the land of their ancestors. They scraped through the rubble to find their historical roots, the graves of their ancestors, and began again. I am not a scholar and I know this is elementary thought, but I think about how the Syrians feel – if they could go home again, they would in a second. How long have the Jews carried on, waiting for that moment?
If you recall, I also quoted Porath on a Rivers’ book.
Sometimes we see only what we assume is there. Apparently.
Why is it better?
Neither Government is answerable to you, they both rule your land for another’s benefit.
Wrt legal redress – how often has a West Bank Arab been successful in stopping the Israeli Army from taking their farm or grazing land by declaring it a security zone, but then turning around and allowing by slight of hand an all Jewish settlement to be built there?
It’s the shape of justice without its substance.
Well I wouldn’t want to madden anybody.
But consider: why are some Palestinians engaged in this violence in the first place?
It isn’t incitement or centuries of Jew hatred or another lurid cultural trait.
It’s because they felt they were unjustly robbed, this robbery seems to be continuing and intensifying, and they currently have not many options.
Violence is not a good response. But ignoring what they are responding to is puzzling. What does it achieve?
But they did expel them Front Seat Cat.
That’s also history. And they won’t let them come back. That’s the situation now.
This is total baloney sauce! Your koran teaches them to hate and kill the Jews. Have you never read it? I have. In addition I have watched TV shows that teach 3 years old children to hate and kill Jews. The sad thing here is you think we are all totally ignorant about Islam and history. It is not our ignorance but yours.
Educate yourself @Zafar. Here is an article about antisemitism world wide. So explain why the world’s muslims hate the Jews in most other countries, when the Jews have taken nothing from them. Can’t blame Israelis on them.
http://www.algemeiner.com/2016/09/14/ambassador-powers-un-speech-on-antisemitism-ignores-islamic-jew-hatred/
You should have stopped there.
When you say things like this you justify the violence. You are saying, essentially that the Jews have brought it on themselves. I know you would prefer to ignore the question of terrorism, but it cannot be ignored. Terrorism is the #1 issue. Palestine has fostered a culture in which indiscriminate mass murder is considered a legitimate reaction to perceived slights. They have democratically chosen to be represented on the world stage by a genocidal death cult. This culture of death, not Jews building houses, is the #1 impediment to peace. By blaming the target of the violence you implicitly condone it.
This is not a rational issue for some people — it’s all emotional. Somehow the Israelis have become the worst people in the world. Worse than the Kims and the Castros. This field is filled with people who feign rational arguments but don’t really want one. The message is never the message with the hard left and Israel is the number 2 hobby horse of the hard left, right after hatred for the U.S. And it’s mostly because we made fools of the Soviets and the adherents of communism.
Didn’t the Jews give up land in exchange for peace, meaning they had to leave a few years back, and it didn’t bring peace? How much more land can they cede for “peace” – who keeps the “peace” – especially when you have given away so much you are no longer in control of your borders and cannot protect yourself, (wow – that sounds familiar…) not to mention your country’s footprint just shrunk even more . The other side has not shown any compromise, have not made any concessions – it’s like paying a ransom (oh no -again – that sounds familiar) but it does not end, nor does it give you what was promised.
That really doesn’t follow.
You say that terrorism is the #1 issue.
If you’re serious shouldn’t you look at all the reasons it happens, not just the comfortable ones?
No, because to legitimize the grievances of those who are attempting genocide is to ignore if not reward their evil. Those who have embraced mass murder as a debating tactic must not be rewarded. The culture of death must be destroyed before any negotiations can take place. I pray that the Palestinians can find the wisdom to do it themselves, but at this point I would not blame the Israelis for running out of patience.
The thing is, they say the same sort of thing about Israeli complaints. It doesn’t seem like a good way to resolve things.
Then the truth must be exactly half way in between — right? There is no other way to know the truth, I guess. Nothing objective, for example. Just what one side says and what the other side says — this makes it so easy.
Gross generalization. In many, many cases, the Israelis tried to reassure and encourage the local Arabs that no harm would come to them if they remained, but regional Arab leaders told them to leave, promising that they would come back after Arab armies slaughtered all the Jews. Which Israel did not allow to happen.
Please clarify.
That’s true. But at the same time there were massacres and intimidation and many Israelis (or members of the Yishuv at that time, I guess) who did the opposite of reassure and encourage.
That’s actually been debunked as a myth, Podkayne. No such broadcasts took place – no search of radio transcripts of that time reveal them. On the contrary, there were broadcasts urging the local Arabs to remain in their homes.
It didn’t allow the refugees to return home either.
Porath is an Israeli source that I actually quoted.
It seemed odd to think that I confuse Israeli and Jewish, especially given the non-Israeli Jews that I quoted.
It made me wonder how much of what you respond to is me and how much is your assumptions about me.
Evidence would not necessarily be limited to “broadcasts” or “radio transcripts. I think most Ricocheteers would consider Daniel Pipes a good source: http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2009/07/palestinians-blame-arab-leaders-for-the-nakba
If you click on the source link:
It doesn’t make your point.
In the Middle East, during wartime, when the Arab forces routinely killed civilians? When Israeli soldiers feared death less than being captured alive, because it was common practice to torture prisoners to death?
Podkayne, you provided a link that you said (or implied) supported your point that Palestinians didn’t flee due to fear but for other reasons. The link leads to a statement that indicates that they did flee due to fear – in fact the opposite of what you claim.
I guess even Daniel Pipes can’t find evidence of these broadcasts.
@zafar, the Arab attacks on Israel were not merely genocidal in intent, according to Benny Morris they were jihad. But that’s not all Morris says:
You are as absolutist as those who say “no expulsion” – and as wrong.
Sorry, I can’t see why this stands or falls on “evidence of broadcasts”. Radio was not the only means of giving over information, and it’s ridiculous to assume that every broadcaster would keep meticulous records or archives. We’re not talking about the BBC here.
Newspapers, Friday sermons, letters to local leaders…
No, when there’s evidence I accept it.
But it’s reasonable to place this several dozens in the context of the 400 towns and villages that were depopulated (in part or wholly) of Arabs during the Nakba.
Correct?
If you make a claim you should have evidence to support it.
Newspaper articles and (potentially) letters are evidence. Where are they?
Zafar, I have things to do right now, so I can’t play Internet rebuttal tag with you. Compared to the Arab torture, rape, and slaughter of the defenders of kibbutz Kfar Etzion after they surrendered, just losing one’s land sounds like a walk in the park. And if all the Arab villages were uprooted, how come we still have so many thriving Arab villages here? Again, the Arab residents of Israel have full citizenship, which is more than the Palestinians in Jordan have, and their civil rights, not to mention financial benefits, are far greater than Arabs living under either the PA or Hamas.
But I get it, of all the forces in the Middle East, Israel is uniquely guilty and the Palestinians are uniquely innocent even when they murder both Israelis and Arabs.