Et Tu, Bernie?

 

Et tuLast week, we had the drama between Senator Ted Cruz and Donald Trump at the Republican Convention. Tonight, there is a chance we may see similar sparks when Senator Bernie Sanders takes the stage so soon after revelations that the DNC was actively schilling for his opponent during the primaries:

Among the emails released on Friday were several embarrassing messages that suggest the committee’s chairwoman, Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida, and other officials favored Hillary Clinton over Mr. Sanders — a claim the senator made repeatedly during the primaries.

In one of the emails, dated May 21, Mark Paustenbach, a committee communications official, wrote to a colleague about the possibility of urging reporters to write that Mr. Sanders’s campaign was “a mess” after a glitch on the committee’s servers gave it access to Clinton voter data.

[…]

In another email exchange, Mr. Miranda asked Ms. Wasserman Schultz whether they should call CNN to complain about a segment the network aired in which Mr. Sanders said he would oust the chairwoman if he were elected.

“Do you all think it’s worth highlighting for CNN that her term ends the day after the inauguration, when a new D.N.C. Chair is elected anyway?” Mr. Miranda asked. Ms. Wasserman Schultz responded by dismissing the senator’s chances. “This is a silly story,” she wrote. “He isn’t going to be president.”

[…]

In an email exchange that month, another committee official wrote to both Mr. Paustenbach and Amy Dacey, the committee’s chief executive, to suggest finding a way to bring attention to the religious beliefs of an unnamed person, apparently Mr. Sanders.

“It might may no difference, but for KY and WVA can we get someone to ask his belief. Does he believe in a God,” wrote Brad Marshall, the chief financial officer of the committee. “He had skated on saying he has a Jewish heritage. I think I read he is an atheist. This could make several points difference with my peeps.”

Sanders has a great many loyal supporters, many of whom were angry at Clinton before this evidence was made public. Now, they’re really angry:

Will Sanders stab Clinton? And, if so, will it be in the front or the back?

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  1. The King Prawn Inactive
    The King Prawn
    @TheKingPrawn

    Tom Meyer, Ed.: Will Sanders stab Clinton? And, if so, will it be in the front or the back?

    Why can’t it be both?

    • #1
  2. Austin Murrey Inactive
    Austin Murrey
    @AustinMurrey

    The Wikileaks DNC release has been interesting to say the least.

    Politico reporters pre-clearing stories with the Clinton campaign was a hilarious story in some ways since it confirms the very worst stereotypes about journalism like Journolist (remember Journolist?) did.

    Also funny was the so-tolerant DNC plotting against Bernie based on the fact that he’s Jewish to help Hillary win Kentucky and West Virginia.

    • #2
  3. KC Mulville Inactive
    KC Mulville
    @KCMulville

    Sanders bailed her out once before, saying during the debates that he didnt care about her damned emails.

    Ironic, I know.

    • #3
  4. The King Prawn Inactive
    The King Prawn
    @TheKingPrawn

    More seriously, Sanders isn’t a democrat, at least not officially, so he has no stake in what happens to the party and no reason to succumb to party loyalty pressures. Our side has done just about everything conceivable to lose this election, and the dems may just make that impossible.

    • #4
  5. Fred Hadra Podcaster
    Fred Hadra
    @FredHadra

    KC Mulville:Sanders bailed her out once before, saying during the debates that he didnt care about her damned emails.

    Ironic, I know.

    Only the “her” in that case was Clinton, not DW-S. We’ll see if he gives a damn about those emails.

    • #5
  6. Old Bathos Moderator
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    Bernie will roll over and take it.  They own him.  He has no stomach for the fight. Never did.

    • #6
  7. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    No fireworks, sparks or otherwise. Bernie Sanders, he of Democrat Socialist honeymoon in Moscow, is a real stand up guy unlike that Constitutional limited government weasel Ted Cruz.

    Go Hillary —->

    • #7
  8. Majestyk Contributor
    Majestyk
    @Majestyk

    They were seriously going to roll out the “Atheist Bernie” canard.  It’s obvious that he probably is, but the fact that they considered this to be a viable angle of attack on the guy… Democrats are truly despicable in almost every way, aren’t they?

    • #8
  9. Dave_L Inactive
    Dave_L
    @Dave-L

    I find the most damning thing about the DNC hack is not the content in the 20k+ emails, but rather that the Clinton Campaign wants us to believe that the Russians were responsible for the DNC hack, but DID NOT hack her own home-grown server.

    There might be some serious fireworks if the Russians release any of Hillary’s emails before election day.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/politics/democratic-convention-dnc-emails-russia/

    • #9
  10. Tim H. Inactive
    Tim H.
    @TimH

    Austin Murrey:

    Also funny was the so-tolerant DNC plotting against Bernie based on the fact that he’s Jewish to help Hillary win Kentucky and West Virginia.

    I’ve seen it reported this way several times.  But the way I read this, they were planning to play up his likely atheism, not his Jewishness.  They’re saying he’s been able to skate by on claiming “Jewish heritage,” but if he’s really trying to disguise the fact that he’s not a practicing Jew but an atheist, that’s what would hurt him with Southern Baptists.

    • #10
  11. Majestyk Contributor
    Majestyk
    @Majestyk

    BrentB67:No fireworks, sparks or otherwise. Bernie Sanders, he of Democrat Socialist honeymoon in Moscow, is a real stand up guy unlike that Constitutional limited government weasel Ted Cruz.

    Go Hillary —->

    I think it’s fair to point out that Ted Cruz’s principles are typically deployed in the interest of advancing the cause of Ted Cruz.

    Ego is obviously expected when dealing with national-level politicians, but I think Cruz revealed himself to be almost dangerously self-interested… perhaps even at a Trumpian level.

    • #11
  12. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Majestyk:

    BrentB67:No fireworks, sparks or otherwise. Bernie Sanders, he of Democrat Socialist honeymoon in Moscow, is a real stand up guy unlike that Constitutional limited government weasel Ted Cruz.

    Go Hillary —->

    I think it’s fair to point out that Ted Cruz’s principles are typically deployed in the interest of advancing the cause of Ted Cruz.

    Ego is obviously expected when dealing with national-level politicians, but I think Cruz revealed himself to be almost dangerously self-interested… perhaps even at a Trumpian level.

    Unlike the 16 other selfless politicians in this year’s race.

    If we are going to be stuck with self interested politicians to choose from I will choose the one that wishes to adhere to the Constitution to advance his brand.

    • #12
  13. Austin Murrey Inactive
    Austin Murrey
    @AustinMurrey

    Tim H.:

    Austin Murrey:

    Also funny was the so-tolerant DNC plotting against Bernie based on the fact that he’s Jewish to help Hillary win Kentucky and West Virginia.

    I’ve seen it reported this way several times. But the way I read this, they were planning to play up his likely atheism, not his Jewishness. They’re saying he’s been able to skate by on claiming “Jewish heritage,” but if he’s really trying to disguise the fact that he’s not a practicing Jew but an atheist, that’s what would hurt him with Southern Baptists.

    Well that’d be slightly better. But only slightly.

    • #13
  14. Austin Murrey Inactive
    Austin Murrey
    @AustinMurrey

    Majestyk: I think it’s fair to point out that Ted Cruz’s principles are typically deployed in the interest of advancing the cause of Ted Cruz.

    As opposed to every other politician?

    Except maybe Kasich – what was he advancing exactly?

    • #14
  15. Majestyk Contributor
    Majestyk
    @Majestyk

    Austin Murrey:

    Tim H.:

    Austin Murrey:

    Also funny was the so-tolerant DNC plotting against Bernie based on the fact that he’s Jewish to help Hillary win Kentucky and West Virginia.

    I’ve seen it reported this way several times. But the way I read this, they were planning to play up his likely atheism, not his Jewishness. They’re saying he’s been able to skate by on claiming “Jewish heritage,” but if he’s really trying to disguise the fact that he’s not a practicing Jew but an atheist, that’s what would hurt him with Southern Baptists.

    Well that’d be slightly better. But only slightly.

    The number of Southern Baptists who were likely to be swayed to vote for Hillary over Bernie on the basis of his atheism is 12.

    You could fit them all on a bus and drive it over to “Stuff-that-doesn’t-matter-Mart” because Hillary isn’t winning the South in basically any version of the multiverse.

    • #15
  16. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Majestyk:

    BrentB67:No fireworks, sparks or otherwise. Bernie Sanders, he of Democrat Socialist honeymoon in Moscow, is a real stand up guy unlike that Constitutional limited government weasel Ted Cruz.

    Go Hillary —->

    I think it’s fair to point out that Ted Cruz’s principles are typically deployed in the interest of advancing the cause of Ted Cruz.

    That is true of most people. Most people stick to their guns when it is in their own interest to do so.

    • #16
  17. Lazy_Millennial Inactive
    Lazy_Millennial
    @LazyMillennial

    While I would love to see Sanders revolt against Clinton, I’ll continue to repeat my analysis: he’s an old enough socialist to know what happened to Trotsky. He’ll fall in line. Furthermore, it was always his plan to fall in line- he entered the race with the goal of “raising his issues”, and never really considered the implications of winning. Hence, he never articulated a foreign policy view. He’s already succeeded beyond his wildest dreams, as his acolytes will run the Democratic party in 12 years if Herself wins election and re-election, 8 years if she only wins the former, and 4 years if she doesn’t win at all. But he’s remade the Millennial base in his image, and given our population size and life expectancy, that means his ghost will be present for a half-century.

    However, the fact that he’ll remain committed to his endorsement doesn’t mean that his supporters will follow his lead. Be praying no one dies at the Democratic convention this week.

    • #17
  18. Majestyk Contributor
    Majestyk
    @Majestyk

    Austin Murrey:

    Majestyk: I think it’s fair to point out that Ted Cruz’s principles are typically deployed in the interest of advancing the cause of Ted Cruz.

    As opposed to every other politician?

    Except maybe Kasich – what was he advancing exactly?

    Poor political judgment.

    @brentb67 as well; I understand the monster ego that a guy has to possess in order to run for President.  There are no exceptions to that.  However, in Cruz’s case, his selective application of principle long after it actually could have made a difference  (like when he was cozying up to Trump) indicates to me that while he does have principles, he’ll sell them in order to pick up a couple of points in Presidential preference polls.

    • #18
  19. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Austin Murrey:

    Majestyk: I think it’s fair to point out that Ted Cruz’s principles are typically deployed in the interest of advancing the cause of Ted Cruz.

    As opposed to every other politician?

    Except maybe Kasich – what was he advancing exactly?

    Medicaid.

    • #19
  20. Lazy_Millennial Inactive
    Lazy_Millennial
    @LazyMillennial

    Majestyk:The number of Southern Baptists who were likely to be swayed to vote for Hillary over Bernie on the basis of his atheism is 12.

    You could fit them all on a bus and drive it over to “Stuff-that-doesn’t-matter-Mart” because Hillary isn’t winning the South in basically any version of the multiverse.

    I disagree with this sentiment, but I’ll defer to the judgement of anyone who has a better handle on the southern black voter’s mindset than me. My general impression is that Bernie’s atheism could have made religious blacks more enthusiastic about voting for Clinton.

    • #20
  21. Majestyk Contributor
    Majestyk
    @Majestyk

    Lazy_Millennial:

    Majestyk:The number of Southern Baptists who were likely to be swayed to vote for Hillary over Bernie on the basis of his atheism is 12.

    You could fit them all on a bus and drive it over to “Stuff-that-doesn’t-matter-Mart” because Hillary isn’t winning the South in basically any version of the multiverse.

    I disagree with this sentiment, but I’ll defer to the judgement of anyone who has a better handle on the southern black voter’s mindset than me. My general impression is that Bernie’s atheism could have made religious blacks more enthusiastic about voting for Clinton.

    Based upon how things have gone in the past 8 years, I think the Democrats are going to end up with a significant enthusiasm gap among one of their core constituency groups – that being Blacks.

    • #21
  22. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Majestyk:

    Austin Murrey:

    Majestyk: I think it’s fair to point out that Ted Cruz’s principles are typically deployed in the interest of advancing the cause of Ted Cruz.

    As opposed to every other politician?

    Except maybe Kasich – what was he advancing exactly?

    Poor political judgment.

    @brentb67 as well; I understand the monster ego that a guy has to possess in order to run for President. There are no exceptions to that. However, in Cruz’s case, his selective application of principle long after it actually could have made a difference (like when he was cozying up to Trump) indicates to me that while he does have principles, he’ll sell them in order to pick up a couple of points in Presidential preference polls.

    No doubt his early primary tactics were poor given what we know now. At the time had Trump imploded Cruz would’ve looked like a genius. That is a hallmark of people like him and admittedly me. Not playing it safe 24/7 has a way of blowing up in ones face or looking heroic. There is no middle ground in the outcome.

    I will ask again. How does this make him unlike every other politician this cycle.

    How does this make him a liar and/or weasel which Ricochet so proudly proclaims on its Main Feed.

    • #22
  23. Lazy_Millennial Inactive
    Lazy_Millennial
    @LazyMillennial

    BrentB67:

    Austin Murrey:

    Majestyk: I think it’s fair to point out that Ted Cruz’s principles are typically deployed in the interest of advancing the cause of Ted Cruz.

    As opposed to every other politician?

    Except maybe Kasich – what was he advancing exactly?

    Medicaid.

    Kasich was the religious, upperclass response to the same problem Trump appealed to- the need for national unity and solidarity. But where Kasich pitched the need for a benevolent touchy-feely “let’s all come together” President, Trump pitched the “screw the foreigners, America First, law and order!” President. Trump was a much better salesman of a much more persuasive vision.

    • #23
  24. Lazy_Millennial Inactive
    Lazy_Millennial
    @LazyMillennial

    Majestyk:Based upon how things have gone in the past 8 years, I think the Democrats are going to end up with a significant enthusiasm gap among one of their core constituency groups – that being Blacks.

    YES THEY ARE. Especially if Trump makes a play for blacks, which @tkc1101 has been hoping for for months now, but which Trump still hasn’t done. But either way, there’s no way blacks show up for Clinton like they did for Obama, and no way Clinton gets the same % of the black vote as Obama did.

    • #24
  25. Eric Hines Inactive
    Eric Hines
    @EricHines

    Tom Meyer, Ed.: Will Sanders stab Clinton? And, if so, will it be in the front or the back?

    Sanders doesn’t have it in him to be confrontational.  He demonstrated that during the debates.

    Thus, he won’t call out Clinton in any guise–legitimately or back-stabbingly–during his speech.  He’s already chosen not even to suggest his supporters object to Clinton, and he’s already thrown his personal support behind her. He’ll not stand up now, which would be badly diluted, anyway, by such obvious waffling and such apparent shedding of crocodile tears over his rude treatment.

    Eric Hines

    • #25
  26. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    The King Prawn:More seriously, Sanders isn’t a democrat, at least not officially, so he has no stake in what happens to the party and no reason to succumb to party loyalty pressures. Our side has done just about everything conceivable to lose this election, and the dems may just make that impossible.

    I thought he registered a year or so before running. I agree it is a complete sham.

    • #26
  27. Kofola Inactive
    Kofola
    @Kofola

    BrentB67:

    Majestyk:

    I think it’s fair to point out that Ted Cruz’s principles are typically deployed in the interest of advancing the cause of Ted Cruz.

    Ego is obviously expected when dealing with national-level politicians, but I think Cruz revealed himself to be almost dangerously self-interested… perhaps even at a Trumpian level.

    Unlike the 16 other selfless politicians in this year’s race.

    If we are going to be stuck with self interested politicians to choose from I will choose the one that wishes to adhere to the Constitution to advance his brand.

    Precisely. Rubio avoids showing up, so he can wag his finger afterwards and claim that he never supported Trump. Yet he mails in a vapid video so he can say he was loyal. Why are we not outraged about how he so cravenly schemed in is own political self-interest and in the most wimpy way possible? Cruz at least went into the lion’s den to make his stand. Apparently being a cowardly weasel is the new ideal.

    Or, how about we drop this whole ridiculous attack all-together and focus on who’s advancing our principles and who isn’t.

    • #27
  28. Majestyk Contributor
    Majestyk
    @Majestyk

    BrentB67:No doubt his early primary tactics were poor given what we know now. At the time had Trump imploded Cruz would’ve looked like a genius. That is a hallmark of people like him and admittedly me. Not playing it safe 25/7 has a way of blowing up in ones face or looking heroic. There is no middle ground in the outcome.

    I will ask again. How does this make him unlike every other politician this cycle.

    How does this make him a liar and/or weasel which Ricochet so proudly proclaims on its Main Feed.

    First off, the opinions of editors and contributors are solely theirs and not necessarily the opinions of the owners.  I don’t expect them to be utterly neutral philosopher-kings and I appreciate knowing where they sit before they tell me where they stand.  I’m a big boy and don’t need my biases and opinions to be reflected back at me in order to feel validated.  The editors are allowed to have their own opinions and I think they do a good job and try to be as fair as possible in terms of refereeing.  That doesn’t mean they should shelve their own opinions for ever and always.

    Cruz acted like a weasel because every other candidate did resist Trump essentially from the get-go.  Although they did it in different ways (Jeb Bush being especially stupid) Cruz’s plan was to let everybody else do his dirty work and then mop up after the circular firing squad abated.  That didn’t happen.  So now, rather than looking like Machiavelli Cruz looks like Judas.  He chose the shirt, and now he gets to wear it.

    Should Trump go down in flames, I think a portion of the blame larger than the other 15 participants lies with Ted Cruz for misunderstanding the nature of the threat Trump posed and placing temporary political ambition above his professed principles.  It doesn’t help that Cruz is an extremely bright guy who has to don the mien of a not-as-bright guy and it comes off as condescension.

    Then there’s his facial expressions and his “smile.”  It contributes to the perception (fairly or no) that he is a weaselly angle-shooter and a rules lawyer.

    I say all of this as a guy who is a fan of Cruz, although not an enthusiastic acolyte.  YMMV.

    • #28
  29. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Majestyk, your #28 is off base.

    There is a difference between the title Editor and Contributor. The same as there is a difference between competitor and referee. Have the cake or eat it.

    You also demonstrate why center right is doomed to its existence of hypocrisy. That you prioritize how someone smiles over substance is why the cause of limited government will never be advanced by center right yet they will wail the loudest under the burden of soft tyranny the beg for their own good.

    • #29
  30. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Kofola:

    BrentB67:

    Majestyk:

    I think it’s fair to point out that Ted Cruz’s principles are typically deployed in the interest of advancing the cause of Ted Cruz.

    Ego is obviously expected when dealing with national-level politicians, but I think Cruz revealed himself to be almost dangerously self-interested… perhaps even at a Trumpian level.

    Unlike the 16 other selfless politicians in this year’s race.

    If we are going to be stuck with self interested politicians to choose from I will choose the one that wishes to adhere to the Constitution to advance his brand.

    Precisely. Rubio avoids showing up, so he can wag his finger afterwards and claim that he never supported Trump. Yet he mails in a vapid video so he can say he was loyal. Why are we not outraged about how he so cravenly schemed in is own political self-interest and in the most wimpy way possible? Cruz at least went into the lion’s den to make his stand. Apparently being a cowardly weasel is the new ideal.

    Or, how about we drop this whole ridiculous attack all-together and focus on who’s advancing our principles and who isn’t.

    You miss the point. This isn’t about substance, policies, positions, priorities or voting records. That is what everyone wants you to believe, but when the lights come on it is really about emotions like electability, appealing, fresh baked cookies, and how someone smiles.

    • #30
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