Ted Cruz, Weasel

 

On my first viewing, I was quite moved by this:


On my second, I realized a very serious problem with it: By implication, Ted Cruz was fine — absolutely fine — with Trump mocking Ben Carson’s faith, a reporter’s physical handicap, and John McCain’s torture. And that’s just the stuff off the top of my head.

If Cruz had said “Trump’s attacks on my family opened my eyes to his abuses and I repent that I didn’t take a stand against them when others were similarly attacked” then I’d be really moved. As it is… Look, I’m glad to see someone show some spine, but I really wish it wasn’t so nakedly self-interested.

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  1. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Tom Meyer: As it is… Look, I’m glad to see someone show some spine, but I really wish it wasn’t so nakedly self-interested.

    I thought you were talking about Ted Cruz.

    • #31
  2. Tom Meyer, Ed. Member
    Tom Meyer, Ed.
    @tommeyer

    She:Tom, I love you, but you can’t be equating Ben Carson and John McCain with the unfortunate and helpless victims of the Nazi purges, and ultimately, the Holocaust.

    Is it okay if I draw a parallel?

    • #32
  3. She Member
    She
    @She

    Regarding the question of Cruz’s “naked self interest.”

    I have never, ever, seen a politician who was so often accused of “overweening ambition,” “naked self interest,” and “political calculation,” at the same time, and sometimes in the same sentence, as someone will bemoan his judgment, his timing, his intelligence, and say his political career is finished.

    How does this work?

    • #33
  4. RyanM Inactive
    RyanM
    @RyanM

    Tom Meyer:

    Okay, this is an extreme example, but how would you feel if I said “I’m sorry, but I can no longer recommend Hannibal Lecter after he ate my family. That was a bridge too far.”

    Assuming that I knew Lecter was already a serial killer and cannibal, doesn’t this imply that I did recommend him up to the point that my loved ones became his dinner?

    Yeah, except that Cruz has already said those things about Trump.  During the last part of the primaries, he didn’t ignore those obvious observations about Trump’s more general behavior.  But here, he’s at a convention where the man is being nominated, and he’s giving a speech in which he declines to openly endorse the candidate.  Keep in mind that stupid “will you support the nominee” question early in the primaries…  Basically, Cruz is trying to be quiet enough (i.e. not going full attack-Trump mode) while still giving some justification for breaking the “vow.”  That’s a pretty fine line to walk.  The obvious solution is to not speak at all.

    • #34
  5. Eric Hines Inactive
    Eric Hines
    @EricHines

    The Question: my biggest problem with Cruz is that he didn’t attack Trump earlier when others were.

    A side note: my biggest problem is that all of them were attacking each other instead of touting their own policies and plans and showing how they were better than those of the Democrat candidates’.

    Eric Hines

    • #35
  6. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    (Peeking out from under the covers) Is the election over yet??

    • #36
  7. Tom Meyer, Ed. Member
    Tom Meyer, Ed.
    @tommeyer

    Ryan, She, would you agree that it would have shown more character if Cruz had said something like:

    …But then Donald attacked my wife and my father in the most disgusting sort of ways. And, I’ll tell you that having my own loved ones end up in his sights opened my eyes to how he’d abused others in similar terms before and I realized that Donald had abrogated my pledge.

    • #37
  8. Quake Voter Inactive
    Quake Voter
    @QuakeVoter

    I thought Cruz’s speech was too coy and clever.  It was, and okay this is idiotically ironic given the context of a Donald Trump nomination, classless and mean girlish.  Cruz’s arc from friend to frenemy to enemy  of The Donald was always a little too manipulative.

    Had Cruz shown the self-critical instincts Tom suggests (I am afraid they are utterly absent), or made a strong case against Trump after Indiana and made this speech outside of the formal convention program I’d have more respect for him.

    Had he tossed aside his prepared speech and gone full Bulworth and challenged an arena of Republicans to reclaim their party from Trump, it would have been somewhat heroic.

    But it was too clever, tactical and totally lacking is honest self assessment.

    It was Cruz.

    • #38
  9. KiminWI Member
    KiminWI
    @KiminWI

    Tom Meyer:Ryan, She, would you agree that it would have shown more character if Cruz had said something like:

    …But then Donald attacked my wife and my father in the most disgusting sort of ways. And, I’ll tell you that having my own loved ones end up in his sights opened my eyes to how he’d abused others in similar terms before and I realized that Donald had abrogated my pledge.

    Are you applying to be his speechwriter?

    • #39
  10. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Tom Meyer:Ryan, She, would you agree that it would have shown more character if Cruz had said something like:

    …But then Donald attacked my wife and my father in the most disgusting sort of ways. And, I’ll tell you that having my own loved ones end up in his sights opened my eyes to how he’d abused others in similar terms before and I realized that Donald had abrogated my pledge.

    How many times have any of us wished we’d said something more articulately?

    • #40
  11. KiminWI Member
    KiminWI
    @KiminWI

    Susan Quinn:(Peeking out from under the covers) Is the election over yet??

    Careful what you wish for.

    • #41
  12. Austin Murrey Inactive
    Austin Murrey
    @AustinMurrey

    The irony of all this vow talk is that the loyalty pledge was a spectacularly stupid idea from the RNC to bind Trump once Trump was defeated by a real candidate.

    To top that off Trump himself said he wasn’t bound by the loyalty oath in question. He even said Cruz didn’t need to support him. This is much ado about nothing.

    • #42
  13. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    RyanM: Basically, Cruz is trying to be quiet enough (i.e. not going full attack-Trump mode) while still giving some justification for breaking the “vow.” That’s a pretty fine line to walk. The obvious solution is to not speak at all.

    Good observation. In that case, the self-interest is located in not turning down the chance to make last night’s speech.

    Once the speech is made, finding ways to justify it while still allowing Trump and the party to save face becomes necessary if Cruz is to show any regard for those in the party who disagree with him, and limiting his justification to, “Well, he attacked my family, and I cannot let that stand,” is a fairly effective way to do that.

    Those who think Cruz was wrong to make the speech in the first place will naturally find him wrong in this also, but those believing it was right for Cruz to make the speech – or if not right, at least only reasonably ambitious rather than wickedly ambitions – must live with Cruz’s attempts to be as tactful as Cruz can be (which may not be very) about mitigating the disharmony such a speech is likely to cause.

    • #43
  14. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    KiminWI:

    Tom Meyer:Ryan, She, would you agree that it would have shown more character if Cruz had said something like:

    …But then Donald attacked my wife and my father in the most disgusting sort of ways. And, I’ll tell you that having my own loved ones end up in his sights opened my eyes to how he’d abused others in similar terms before and I realized that Donald had abrogated my pledge.

    Are you applying to be his speechwriter?

    Honestly, Cruz could maybe use a speechwriter like Tom.

    • #44
  15. Lily Bart Inactive
    Lily Bart
    @LilyBart

    MarciN:I don’t think Cruz should have spoken at the convention because it was bound to go badly. The people opted out of speaking this year took the wiser course of action. If Cruz wanted to speak to his supporters, he could rounded them up in smaller groups and made a YouTube speech. That would have made a lot more sense.

    This sounds sensible.   Charles Krathhammer agrees – he said the speech was fine, but Cruz should have given it elsewhere.

    • #45
  16. Eric Hines Inactive
    Eric Hines
    @EricHines

    Tom Meyer:Ryan, She, would you agree that it would have shown more character if Cruz had said something like:

    …But then Donald attacked my wife and my father in the most disgusting sort of ways. And, I’ll tell you that having my own loved ones end up in his sights opened my eyes to how he’d abused others in similar terms before and I realized that Donald had abrogated my pledge.

    No, that would be another copout.  No one can abrogate one’s pledge but the one who made it.  What Cruz could have done is say something like:

    I’ll be voting for Donald Trump

    at the end of an otherwise identical speech.  Unless he has someone else in mind for whom to vote.

    Eric Hines

    • #46
  17. Tom Meyer, Ed. Member
    Tom Meyer, Ed.
    @tommeyer

    KiminWI:

    Tom Meyer:Ryan, She, would you agree that it would have shown more character if Cruz had said something like:

    …But then Donald attacked my wife and my father in the most disgusting sort of ways. And, I’ll tell you that having my own loved ones end up in his sights opened my eyes to how he’d abused others in similar terms before and I realized that Donald had abrogated my pledge.

    Are you applying to be his speechwriter?

    No, but I’m happy to have Peter’s attorney look over the NDA for me if offered. ;)

    • #47
  18. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Ted Cruz isn’t married to a reporter mocked by Trump and Ben Carson isn’t his father.

    You have to cross a long bridge to make that connection to being a weasel Tom.

    • #48
  19. Tom Meyer, Ed. Member
    Tom Meyer, Ed.
    @tommeyer

    Eric Hines:No, that would be another copout. No one can abrogate one’s pledge but the one who made it. What Cruz could have done is say something like:

    I’ll be voting for Donald Trump

    at the end of an otherwise identical speech. Unless he has someone else in mind for whom to vote.

    That would have worked very well for me.

    • #49
  20. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:

    KiminWI:

    Tom Meyer:Ryan, She, would you agree that it would have shown more character if Cruz had said something like:

    …But then Donald attacked my wife and my father in the most disgusting sort of ways. And, I’ll tell you that having my own loved ones end up in his sights opened my eyes to how he’d abused others in similar terms before and I realized that Donald had abrogated my pledge.

    Are you applying to be his speechwriter?

    Honestly, Cruz could maybe use a speechwriter like Tom.

    He could also loosen up some.

    He has a tendency when he hasn’t spoken on a big stage in a while to come out over rehearsed and stiff.

    • #50
  21. Brian Watt Inactive
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    Cruz made his Machiavellian calculation early on in the campaign that he would praise Trump until Trump faltered and then he would snatch up Trump’s supporters because they shared so much in common about immigration policy, combating terrorism, etc. This was revealed in an audio clip with Cruz donors and supporters. And it might have even worked. Except  Trump defied conventional political logic and never faltered. And in the interim Trump hurled his vitriol and insults at just about every Republican candidate in the race and many conservative commentators. Cruz also had to deal with his own campaign’s issues of deception and smear, particularly against Carson and Rubio which I personally found disingenuous. So, to me he continues to have a Machiavellian taint.

    Last night he articulated the frustration that many, who have not knelt to Trump or embraced the Trump coronation, have been feeling since late May when Trump garnered the necessary delegates. I believe he was sincere in his concern that Republicans need to vote for candidates who stand for freedom and the Constitution. He chose the word, “dictator” purposely at the beginning of his remarks because he senses that whether it’s Hillary or The Donald, Congress will have to do all it can to restrain either of them if they exhibit an attempt to act tyrannically and outside the bounds of the Constitution.

    My guess is that Cruz had made the calculation that not endorsing Trump would be quite risky and either damage his career or position him for a run in 2020. So, that took some guts. Especially to walk into an arena where he knew the crowd would eventually turn on him based on the content of his speech and the payoff that the crowed was waiting for but never came.

    If or when the Republican Party is ripped apart, historians will no doubt look back to Cruz’s speech as perhaps a catalytic moment but there were numerous other contributing factors and moments well before Trump or Cruz even surfaced in the political arena that has brought the republic to this dismal state of affairs.

    • #51
  22. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Were you to call my late father a weasel, are you saying that I would forfeit my right to punch you in the snout had I not first punched you in the snout for calling Cruz a weasel?

    • #52
  23. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Tom Meyer:

    Eric Hines:No, that would be another copout. No one can abrogate one’s pledge but the one who made it. What Cruz could have done is say something like:

    I’ll be voting for Donald Trump

    at the end of an otherwise identical speech. Unless he has someone else in mind for whom to vote.

    That would have worked very well for me.

    It wouldn’t have worked for Ted Cruz. I make a distinction between voting for someone and supporting them, perhaps you do as well. I’ve been told there is no difference and that a vote for someone is the same as a max donation, volunteering, etc. by the esteemed Ricochet Bar Association who is now ensconced in their private library.

    He had a very specific purpose last night as did Ken Cuccinelli and Mike Lee earlier this week. Endorsing Trump didn’t fit that agenda.

    • #53
  24. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Austin Murrey:The irony of all this vow talk is that the loyalty pledge was a spectacularly stupid idea from the RNC to bind Trump once Trump was defeated by a real candidate.

    To top that off Trump himself said he wasn’t bound by the loyalty oath in question. He even said Cruz didn’t need to support him. This is much ado about nothing.

    Yeah, but that doesn’t fit the NeverTrump agenda, but then again Never Trump doesn’t always fit the NeverTrump agenda either.

    • #54
  25. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Brian, I am too cheap to be a Thatcher or Reagan member so I can’t quote it, but your #51 is very good.

    • #55
  26. Boss Mongo Member
    Boss Mongo
    @BossMongo

    The Question: When I think about voting for Trump, I feel like I’m failing morally. When I think about not voting for Trump and facilitating Hillary’s election, I feel like I’m failing morally.

    Concur.  Wholeheartedly.

    • #56
  27. Michael Farrow Inactive
    Michael Farrow
    @MichaelFarrow

    May I point out that the convention is the National Convention of the Republican Party.  Sen. Cruz came with the second largest set of elected delegates.  He certainly had every right to address the party.  He had every right to ask voters to vote their conscious – indeed that should always be the voter’s motivation.  He was the only speaker who reminded (indirectly) that Trump is no Republican, let alone a constitutional conservative.  I remain unwilling to blindly roll the dice on a candidate who is unfamiliar with that document.

    So why should he conspire to destroy the Republican Party? With so many sheeple ready to be sheared, why do you want him to crowd into the arena to share your shearing?

    • #57
  28. James Of England Inactive
    James Of England
    @JamesOfEngland

    Jamie Lockett:This is a good point, but I think we’re asking more of Ted Cruz than we would ask of anyone else in this situation.

    I’ve seen a lot of moments that a Republican has turned on his own party and put personal interests above the good of the country. I believe I’ve condemned each and every one of these. Who do you believe has decided that their personal emotional state is more important than the Supreme Court and not been dinged for it?

    RyanM:

    Jamie Lockett:This is a good point, but I think we’re asking more of Ted Cruz than we would ask of anyone else in this situation.

    I agree with this. Implication by omission isn’t a very good assumption to make. It’s kind of like all the “well, Jesus never said a word about…” arguments that get thrown around by people. That Cruz didn’t mention every grievance in a tweet (or even if it was an interview) doesn’t really mean anything except that he didn’t mention those things. Perhaps he didn’t have space, perhaps he didn’t want to overstep and appear to be really attacking Trump out of sour apples. I think there are a lot of explanations for this without necessarily assuming that he was absolutely fine with Trumps other inappropriate rhetoric.

    It’s not implication by omission. Cruz changed his position from “I will endorse Trump” to “I will give Clinton the largest gift she’s received from any other candidate but Trump this election”. The former position made it clear that he was comfortable endorsing Trump despite Trump making vile allegations. The latter position made it clear that he was not when those allegations were personal to him. In other words, it’s not about the country, or about Trump’s character, it’s about Cruz.

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:

    Susan Quinn:

    Tom Meyer: On my second, I realized a very serious problem with it: By implication, Ted Cruz was fine — absolutely fine — with Trump mocking Ben Carson’s faith, a reporter’s physical handicap, and John McCain’s torture. And that’s just the stuff off the of my head.

    Ummm. Don’t agree. He said when it got personal. He didn’t say everything else didn’t matter. I don’t think you can infer that the other stuff wasn’t important. For me, that’s a step too far. If someone attacked my family, I’d be done. Remember, not a Cruz or Trump fan.

    Agreed, Susan. “Every man is, no doubt, by nature, first and principally recommended to his own care; and as he is fitter to take care of himself than of any other person,” and, by extension, each of us is more fit to take care of our own, whether “our own” are family members, close friends – those people whom we know well enough for it to be reasonable that we, not others, can best serve as their allies and guardians.

    Among some men, not allowing a man to take care of his own bullies is even seen as a sign of disrespect, of communicating suspicion that the other man is not manly enough to handle bullies on his own. So I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a man to act as if defending his family members while not mentioning other men similarly attacked is the proper manly thing to do.

    I can see the argument that Cruz ought not to have defended Carson etc.

    Cruz did not just stand by and let people defend themselves, though. He actively protected Trump, saying that Reagan’s 11th commandment meant that people should desist from attacking Trump.

    He then said, repeatedly, in paper and verbally, that he would endorse Trump for President if Trump won the nomination. There is no stronger proof possible that he did not believe that vile attacks were not disqualifying for the role or President (or, I guess, that he did not want to portray himself as believing that; obviously, we’ve no way of telling what he actually believed).

    KiminWI:

    All those other people willingly stepped into public life, so though Trump’s treatment of them was shameful, they are in the ring. Cruz can be forgiven for drawing a line between those in the ring and those who are related to those in the ring. He wasn’t appointed Donald’s conscience. That’s probably a lost cause anyway.

    When Trump mocked a journalist’s physical disability, was that different from Heidi because the journalist was in the ring? It appears to me that Heidi had done considerably more to insert herself into the public sphere than he had; she voluntarily campaigned as a leading surrogate for a candidate for the Republican nomination.

    I think Ted Cruz is a pretty authentic character, warts and all. He wasn’t my choice when we thought this was a regular race and I don’t know if he’ll ever be my choice for the presidency. I am very glad his voice is out there and glad he’s not slinking away. Roll up the sleeves, because we have work to do and need all hands on deck.

    Are you glad that he’s persuading people not to vote Republican? Until yesterday, one of the better arguments for Trump was that he would appoint conservative judges, and that we could tell that he was sincere because he promised to involve Cruz; by having this be the price of Cruz’s support, he went some distance toward giving himself strong incentives to follow through on his commitment. Whoever wins in November, Cruz made it less likely that we’ll have conservative justices by supporting Clinton and reducing Trump’s incentive. Are you glad that he’d invigorating the split in the party? One of the greatest difficulties faced by Republicans running for downticket offices is that they get asked about their views on Trump and any answer costs them votes. Raising the profile of that issue is a significant problem for Senators, whether they’re pro- or anti- Trump. As She says, we should move on when we can, but one of the best moments for persuading voters available, a night with a series of great speeches by persuasive orators has, instead, been dominated by a bid to divide the party further. Other than emotional validation, I’m not sure what the benefit to hijacking the night was.

    • #58
  29. She Member
    She
    @She

    Tom Meyer:Ryan, She, would you agree that it would have shown more character if Cruz had said something like:

    …But then Donald attacked my wife and my father in the most disgusting sort of ways. And, I’ll tell you that having my own loved ones end up in his sights opened my eyes to how he’d abused others in similar terms before and I realized that Donald had abrogated my pledge.

    I think he pretty much said that, with respect to himself, this morning, in explaining why he felt that he was absolved of ‘the pledge.’

    I know you are ‘stuck’ on ‘why didn’t Cruz defend everyone else that Trump had abused?’

    My recollection of that narrative, (using Ben Carson as an example), relates to that utterly spurious story that was peddled after the Iowa Caucuses, that Cruz torpedoed Ben Carson by claiming, without any corroborating evidence, that Carson was quitting the race.  I really can’t be bothered to find the link.  Google it, and you’ll see plenty of reports, favoring one side or the other.

    Trump (who did not win in Iowa, if I recollect correctly), jumped all over Cruz as a result of that, and that was probably the beginning of the end of the Cruz/Trump bromance that people write so fondly about.

    That was the point, if I remember correctly, at which Carson began his flirtation with the Trump bandwagon, because Trump, at that point was supporting Carson against Cruz (probably because he saw, correctly, that Cruz might be more of a threat to him (Trump) in the long run).  This gave Carson the cover he needed to support Trump, after Carson himself quit the race (and convinces me that Ben Carson does not need me, or even you, to defend him, especially since neither of us is in a position to offer him a position in any potential new Republican administration).

    Considering the number of times that Trump himself said that he might abrogate ‘the pledge’ if he lost, I think ongoing discussion of this issue is absurd.

    And, in the unlikely event that the Republic survives four years of President Trump, I think that whether or not Ted Cruz, or anybody else, hewed strictly to the letter of ‘the pledge’ in 2016 will be irrelevant, and probably forgotten.

    But the video of Marco Rubio, who looked like nothing so much as a hostage speaking under duress, or of Scott Walker, shouting into the virtual Wisconsin farmland that served as the video background for his speech, will not.

    As for Ted Cruz, his speech, in front of video of the US Constitution, and the American Flag–people will remember that.

    For better, or for worse.

    • #59
  30. Austin Murrey Inactive
    Austin Murrey
    @AustinMurrey

    @jamielockett‘s made an observation about another brouhaha last week (I can’t recall, maybe Jamie can?) that people were opining in exactly the manner you’d expect them to.

    Same thing here. Maybe we could replace these posts with polls to cut down on wasted time?

    • #60
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