Ted Cruz, Weasel

 

On my first viewing, I was quite moved by this:


On my second, I realized a very serious problem with it: By implication, Ted Cruz was fine — absolutely fine — with Trump mocking Ben Carson’s faith, a reporter’s physical handicap, and John McCain’s torture. And that’s just the stuff off the top of my head.

If Cruz had said “Trump’s attacks on my family opened my eyes to his abuses and I repent that I didn’t take a stand against them when others were similarly attacked” then I’d be really moved. As it is… Look, I’m glad to see someone show some spine, but I really wish it wasn’t so nakedly self-interested.

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  1. She Member
    She
    @She

    Tom Meyer:

    She:Tom, I love you, but you can’t be equating Ben Carson and John McCain with the unfortunate and helpless victims of the Nazi purges, and ultimately, the Holocaust.

    Is it okay if I draw a parallel?

    You may draw any sort of parallel you like.

    However, that doesn’t absolve you of the obligation to explain it, or us of the right to object to it.

    • #61
  2. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Austin Murrey:@jamielockett‘s made an observation about another brouhaha last week (I can’t recall, maybe Jamie can?) that people were opining in exactly the manner you’d expect them to.

    Same thing here. Maybe we could replace these posts with polls to cut down on wasted time?

    It is hard to get in the requisite amount of Cruz bashing to maintain one’s membership in the Ricochet intelligentsia with a poll.

    • #62
  3. James Of England Inactive
    James Of England
    @JamesOfEngland

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:

    RyanM: Basically, Cruz is trying to be quiet enough (i.e. not going full attack-Trump mode) while still giving some justification for breaking the “vow.” That’s a pretty fine line to walk. The obvious solution is to not speak at all.

    Good observation. In that case, the self-interest is located in not turning down the chance to make last night’s speech.

    Once the speech is made, finding ways to justify it while still allowing Trump and the party to save face becomes necessary if Cruz is to show any regard for those in the party who disagree with him, and limiting his justification to, “Well, he attacked my family, and I cannot let that stand,” is a fairly effective way to do that.

    Those who think Cruz was wrong to make the speech in the first place will naturally find him wrong in this also, but those believing it was right for Cruz to make the speech – or if not right, at least only reasonably ambitious rather than wickedly ambitions – must live with Cruz’s attempts to be as tactful as Cruz can be (which may not be very) about mitigating the disharmony such a speech is likely to cause.

    Yesterday, Scott Reusser and I were discussing the Ohio Senate election. We’re both big fans of Portman, and will probably give and volunteer for him. He’s, in general, a strong full spectrum conservative facing a pretty awful opponent. Nonetheless, our conversation dwelt heavily on our disappointment in him not just for supporting SSM, but for doing so on an explicitly self-interested basis (his son is gay). To our minds, that is a reason for recusing yourself from a debate, not a reason for taking sides. I also objected to it when Rubio talked about not reforming SS because he wouldn’t do anything that was bad for his grandmother, although it was helpful that no one I talked to believed that he was serious in suggesting that as a motivation. I mention this to note that, although I’m both not a fan of Cruz and not a fan of convention disloyalty (I never forgave Christie his 2012 speech and always considered that a greater sin than anything that followed), my aversion to a high priority being placed on family stems from a  dislike of corruption and a belief that politicians should attempt to follow principled rather than parochial concerns.

    While there was no way to make a promise to endorse compatible with an attack, if Cruz had found a policy disagreement with Trump, he’d have allowed himself to make an argument that could be engaged with. Indeed, attacks for not being conservative enough might have been helpful to many downticket races where the candidates would like it if Trump were perceived as less extreme. Instead, he attacked Trump’s character, and specifically did so for attacking women; a line of attack that strongly reinforces Clinton’s most effective effort.

    • #63
  4. Austin Murrey Inactive
    Austin Murrey
    @AustinMurrey

    BrentB67:

    Austin Murrey:@jamielockett‘s made an observation about another brouhaha last week (I can’t recall, maybe Jamie can?) that people were opining in exactly the manner you’d expect them to.

    Same thing here. Maybe we could replace these posts with polls to cut down on wasted time?

    It is hard to get in the requisite amount of Cruz bashing to maintain one’s membership in the Ricochet intelligentsia with a poll.

    This whole election has been boring, repetitive and tense.

    • #64
  5. Tom Meyer, Ed. Member
    Tom Meyer, Ed.
    @tommeyer

    She:

    Tom Meyer:

    She:Tom, I love you, but you can’t be equating Ben Carson and John McCain with the unfortunate and helpless victims of the Nazi purges, and ultimately, the Holocaust.

    Is it okay if I draw a parallel?

    You may draw any sort of parallel you like.

    However, that doesn’t absolve you of the obligation to explain it…

    The parallel is the indifference to others’ victimization until you find yourself among them. To be clear, this a very normal, very human weakness, but it is a weakness nontheless.

    I’m simply not keen to praise Cruz’s conscience when it failed to register complaint until he was on the receiving end of Trump’s abuses.

    • #65
  6. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    James Of England: Are you glad that he’s persuading people not to vote Republican?

    Well, from my point of view, Cruz’s speech served as a reminder of the importance of voting downticket no matter what one thought of the presidential race. Which strikes me as rather the opposite of persuading folks not to vote Republican, but I admit there’s a mixture of effects going on:

    Some might be persuaded by Cruz’s speech to not vote for Trump, specifically. That is one Republican (or RINO, or whatever) Cruz’s advice could persuade them to not vote for, but if they’re taking Cruz’s advice they will also show up to vote and “vote their conscience” downticket, which presumably will mean mostly voting for Republican candidates, and valuing the downticket races as you think they ought to be valued.

    • #66
  7. James Of England Inactive
    James Of England
    @JamesOfEngland

    BrentB67:

    Tom Meyer:

    Eric Hines:No, that would be another copout. No one can abrogate one’s pledge but the one who made it. What Cruz could have done is say something like:

    I’ll be voting for Donald Trump

    at the end of an otherwise identical speech. Unless he has someone else in mind for whom to vote.

    That would have worked very well for me.

    It wouldn’t have worked for Ted Cruz……

    He had a very specific purpose last night as did Ken Cuccinelli and Mike Lee earlier this week. Endorsing Trump didn’t fit that agenda.

    I agree. Cruz’s personal brand is about fighting and about purity. So, last night he showed that he was a fighter, and he showed that he was pure. The fighting is enhanced by the sense that he had a manly motivation, that this was a visceral conflict; most people don’t become a Cruz fan if they think that fighting is about achieving policy aims rather than a sort of Teddy Roosevelt Man in the Arena fantasy. The purity was enhanced by his not clouding his message of division.

    I guess part of me thinks that the plan was to make Trump refuse him the spot, which would have given him a better martyrdom. It seems extraordinarily petty of Trump to feel the need to put him on stage. He’d still have been a headline, but there would have been much more focus given to Walker, Rubio, etc. giving arguments that would help conservatives across America get elected.

    • #67
  8. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    James Of England: Are you glad that he’s persuading people not to vote Republican?

    James, is there anything any candidate could do short of murder that would shake your faith in the Republican Party?

    • #68
  9. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Tom Meyer:

    She:

    Tom Meyer:

    She:Tom, I love you, but you can’t be equating Ben Carson and John McCain with the unfortunate and helpless victims of the Nazi purges, and ultimately, the Holocaust.

    Is it okay if I draw a parallel?

    You may draw any sort of parallel you like.

    However, that doesn’t absolve you of the obligation to explain it…

    The parallel is the indifference to others’ victimization until you find yourself among them. To be clear, this a very normal, very human weakness, but it is a weakness nontheless.

    I’m simply not keen to praise Cruz’s conscience when it failed to register complaint until he was on the receiving end of Trump’s abuses.

    Tom, with all due respect may we assume your Superman cape is at the cleaners and you’ve extra time to write this article since you are not out defending the downtrodden and securing truth, justice, and the American way this afternoon?

    This is politics, not the boy scouts. If Ben Carson can get in the arena he can defend himself. Did we post similar articles ridiculing Dr. Carson for his battered wife syndrome when he endorsed Trump? If Carson doesn’t care about his character being impugned by Trump who are you or any of us to hold Ted Cruz responsible for defending Ben Carson?

    I agree that Ted Cruz’s early primary tactics were poor, may have cost him the election, but this is a bit rich.

    • #69
  10. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Jamie Lockett:

    James Of England: Are you glad that he’s persuading people not to vote Republican?

    James, is there anything any candidate could do short of murder that would shake your faith in the Republican Party?

    It will most likely depend on who is being murdered, but in reality probably not.

    • #70
  11. Tom Meyer, Ed. Member
    Tom Meyer, Ed.
    @tommeyer

    BrentB67:

    It is hard to get in the requisite amount of Cruz bashing to maintain one’s membership in the Ricochet intelligentsia with a poll.

    You know, I did donate to the guy.

    • #71
  12. James Of England Inactive
    James Of England
    @JamesOfEngland

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:

    James Of England: Are you glad that he’s persuading people not to vote Republican?

    Well, from my point of view, Cruz’s speech served as a reminder of the importance of voting downticket no matter what one thought of the presidential race. Which strikes me as rather the opposite of persuading folks not to vote Republican, but I admit there’s a mixture of effects going on:

    Some might be persuaded by Cruz’s speech to not vote for Trump, specifically. That is one Republican (or RINO, or whatever) Cruz’s advice could persuade them to not vote for, but if they’re taking Cruz’s advice they will also show up to vote and “vote their conscience” downticket, which presumably will mean mostly voting for Republican candidates, and valuing the downticket races as you think they ought to be valued.

    I agree that that’s a reasonably sound literal interpretation. I’d disagree on two grounds. The first is that the strongest word in the speech is conscience; he’s implying that it’s a morally bad act to vote for Trump, which seems likely to dissuade voters open to that sort of persuasion. As a practical matter, there’s a lot more people who turn out for the Presidential elections than for the others, and persuading them that they don’t want to vote at the top (and conscience references are a pretty good way of persuading people that they do not; Clinton isn’t particularly appealing to Republicans on those grounds, either) is likely to persuade people not to vote, even if you also tell them (rather than persuading them; “conscience” isn’t a strong motivator to vote for a guy you’ve never heard of).

    Secondly, elections are won by party line voters. Cruz doesn’t just heighten the tension by validating the Trump-loathers. He also validates concerns that Trump supporters have with the rest of the party; the assumption that Joe Blogs (your town-R) is on your side is weakened when you see the party going after your candidate. Weakening the Republican tendency to vote party line hurts every single Republican candidate for office.

    • #72
  13. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    What time will we be posting the Marco Rubio, Weasel post since he came out and endorsed Trump after being called Little Marco and was shouted off the stage by Trump’s henchman Christie?

    • #73
  14. Isaac Smith Member
    Isaac Smith
    @

    Jamie Lockett:This is a good point, but I think we’re asking more of Ted Cruz than we would ask of anyone else in this situation.

    He pledged to support the eventual Republican nominee.  He got a prime time speaking spot at the convention.  He either should have honored his pledge or stayed home.

    • #74
  15. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Tom Meyer:

    BrentB67:

    It is hard to get in the requisite amount of Cruz bashing to maintain one’s membership in the Ricochet intelligentsia with a poll.

    Yes, you are on record having done so. Did that buy you the right to generate this slander?

    You know, I did donate to the guy.

    • #75
  16. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    James Of England: The first is that the strongest word in the speech is conscience; he’s implying that it’s a morally bad act to vote for Trump,

    He didn’t say that though. He did not mention Trump’s name at all except to congratulate him. If people take that statement to mean that voting for Trump is a violation of their conscience then that’s more their problem than Cruz’s.

    • #76
  17. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Isaac Smith:

    Jamie Lockett:This is a good point, but I think we’re asking more of Ted Cruz than we would ask of anyone else in this situation.

    He pledged to support the eventual Republican nominee. He got a prime time speaking spot at the convention. He either should have honored his pledge or stayed home.

    Trump himself said the pledge was meaningless months ago, yet you hold Ted Cruz to it? Give me a break.

    • #77
  18. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    I am fine with Cruz’s actions, and his motivations. Goldburg’s article on NRO pretty much captures where I am.

    I know there is a lot of Cruz hate out there. Heck the establishment hates him more than they hate Trump.

    I think his message on how to vote is all you can ask of anyone.

    Tom, I mostly am with you here, but I am not sure how much this helps Cruz. This may work for him or may not. I am not in the habit of going after pols for having naked self interest. There would be no one left to root for.

    • #78
  19. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Tom Meyer:

    She:

    Tom Meyer:

    She:Tom, I love you, but you can’t be equating Ben Carson and John McCain with the unfortunate and helpless victims of the Nazi purges, and ultimately, the Holocaust.

    Is it okay if I draw a parallel?

    You may draw any sort of parallel you like.

    However, that doesn’t absolve you of the obligation to explain it…

    The parallel is the indifference to others’ victimization until you find yourself among them. To be clear, this a very normal, very human weakness, but it is a weakness nontheless.

    I’m simply not keen to praise Cruz’s conscience when it failed to register complaint until he was on the receiving end of Trump’s abuses.

    There is also a big difference between not praising someone and insulting them.

    • #79
  20. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    BrentB67: I agree that Ted Cruz’s early primary tactics were poor, may have cost him the election, but this is a bit rich.

    I think this is what it comes down to. As Brian Watt pointed out,

    Brian Watt: Cruz made his Machiavellian calculation early on in the campaign that he would praise Trump until Trump faltered and then he would snatch up Trump’s supporters because they shared so much in common about immigration policy, combating terrorism, etc. This was revealed in an audio clip with Cruz donors and supporters. And it might have even worked. Except Trump defied conventional political logic and never faltered…

    Cruz – accurately, as it turns out – perceived Trump as competitive enough to make it worthwhile to play friendly in an attempt to later poach Trump’s votes once Trump crashed and burned (something nearly everyone thought Trump would do at first). Many of us surmised this is what had to be going on, even without an audio clip. It just made sense, as the kind of garden-variety Machiavellian strategy one expects in electoral politics. (What the bleep would a guy like Cruz be doing cozying up to Lord Kelo otherwise?) Well, just-competitive-enough-to-have-votes-worth-poaching-but-not-enough-to-win was the wrong estimate.

    Of course Cruz still finds himself squirming to live down his prior decision. It’s not like Cruz could pretend he didn’t have a Machiavellian streak after such a miscalculation, though I would bet most of us observe that such streaks are something even relatively honest politicians would find it hard not to cultivate to some degree.

    Cruz isn’t suffering for being an unusually Machiavellian politician, he’s suffering for having been insufficiently suave while attempting to be Machiavellian.

    • #80
  21. livingthehighlife Inactive
    livingthehighlife
    @livingthehighlife

    Austin Murrey:

    BrentB67:

    Austin Murrey:@jamielockett‘s made an observation about another brouhaha last week (I can’t recall, maybe Jamie can?) that people were opining in exactly the manner you’d expect them to.

    Same thing here. Maybe we could replace these posts with polls to cut down on wasted time?

    It is hard to get in the requisite amount of Cruz bashing to maintain one’s membership in the Ricochet intelligentsia with a poll.

    This whole election has been boring, repetitive and tense.

    And it’s just getting warmed up.  Now please excuse me while I find a cave to live in for the next 5 months.

    • #81
  22. James Of England Inactive
    James Of England
    @JamesOfEngland

    BrentB67:

    Jamie Lockett:

    James Of England: Are you glad that he’s persuading people not to vote Republican?

    James, is there anything any candidate could do short of murder that would shake your faith in the Republican Party?

    It will most likely depend on who is being murdered, but in reality probably not.

    If a candidate murdered a guy, that would certainly impact my belief in the candidate. I don’t think it would substantially effect my belief in the party. If Trump, Scott, Portman, Rubio, or Walker were to go full ISIS and murder a thousand, that would be terrible, but their faults would not be attributable to Toomey or Priebus.

    If the party stopped being the party of trade, or the party of free labor, or the party of domestic budget cuts, or the party of law and order, abroad and at home, or the party of life, or the party of Constitutional literalism, the party of the beliefs I held before I had a real sense that the Republican Party existed, I’d reconsider my position. Since it seems essentially inconceivable that on any of those things the Congressional or state parties will reverse their roles in the near term future, that doesn’t give me much pause for concern.

    At a Presidential level and with some individual Congressmen and state officers, things are different. I think that Clinton’s foreign policy is likely to be greatly superior to Trump’s. I suspect that she would be less divisive, although she would be very divisive. I suspect that McConnell will be exceptionally good at resisting her harms. Were it not for Scalia’s death, I’d be relatively close to precisely neutral, but two justices means that I lean somewhat toward Trump (I’d have leant toward Cruz slightly more vigorously).

    If you’re suggesting that it takes some extraordinary tribalism for me to prefer Toomey to McGinty, Rubio to Grayson, Portman to Strickland, or McConnell as Leader to Schumer, then I’d urge you to look more closely at their records. If, as I suspect you do, you believe each of them to be clearly more impressive, then I hope that you will see that fanatical devotion is not required to find oneself wanting Republican victories in November.

    • #82
  23. James Of England Inactive
    James Of England
    @JamesOfEngland

    Jamie Lockett:

    Isaac Smith:

    Jamie Lockett:This is a good point, but I think we’re asking more of Ted Cruz than we would ask of anyone else in this situation.

    He pledged to support the eventual Republican nominee. He got a prime time speaking spot at the convention. He either should have honored his pledge or stayed home.

    Trump himself said the pledge was meaningless months ago, yet you hold Ted Cruz to it? Give me a break.

    I don’t find Trump to be a useful arbiter of morality. I’m mildly disappointed that you do.

    Jamie Lockett:

    James Of England: The first is that the strongest word in the speech is conscience; he’s implying that it’s a morally bad act to vote for Trump,

    He didn’t say that though. He did not mention Trump’s name at all except to congratulate him. If people take that statement to mean that voting for Trump is a violation of their conscience then that’s more their problem than Cruz’s.

    I agree that if there was no pre-existing trope to buy into, his words would not have carried that meaning. I find it hard to imagine that you’re so cut off from the conservative world that you’re not familiar with the context, though.

    • #83
  24. James Of England Inactive
    James Of England
    @JamesOfEngland

    BrentB67:What time will we be posting the Marco Rubio, Weasel post since he came out and endorsed Trump after being called Little Marco and was shouted off the stage by Trump’s henchman Christie?

    Rubio pledged to support the nominee on the debate stage, he did so in writing for the RNC. He did so in writing as a condition for entering the South Carolina Primary. He committed to endorsing the nominee when he ended his campaign in Florida. He’s now endorsing the nominee.

    Maybe that’s weak of him. Perhaps he should fight more. There’s a lot of sexualized imagery used with insults in this sort of context. I’m not suggesting that he’s above criticism for this, and he certainly gets some.

    Turning the other cheek, though, and following through on his commitments is not what it means to be a weasel. Not all insults are fungible.

    • #84
  25. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    Speaking of weasels, ferret-shaming is a thing – thought y’all might want to know…

    • #85
  26. GFHandle Member
    GFHandle
    @GFHandle

    Tom Meyer: If Cruz had said “Trump’s attacks on my family opened my eyes to his abuses and I repent that I didn’t take a stand against them when others were similarly attacked” then I’d be really moved. As it is… Look, I’m glad to see someone show some spine, but I really wish it wasn’t so nakedly self-interested.

    But the insults were personal. Why should Cruz go further and attack the party itself through its new Head?  He got booed as it was. He could argue that he showed restraint and good sense. He defended his family, as a man MUST. He did not go beyond that.

    • #86
  27. GFHandle Member
    GFHandle
    @GFHandle

    Tom Meyer:

    Susan Quinn:

    Ummm. Don’t agree. He said when it got personal. He didn’t say everything else didn’t matter. I don’t think you can infer that the other stuff wasn’t important. For me, that’s a step too far. If someone attacked my family, I’d be done. Remember, not a Cruz or Trump fan.

     How can behavior toward someone else not attached to me be personal to me? What does personal mean to you?

    But Trump’s behavior toward McCain, Carson, and that reporter was just as personal and undignified as making fun of Heidi’s looks and making up stuff about Raphael.

    I’m unimpressed when people who had been idly standing suddenly invoke principle the moment it works in their self-interest.

    • #87
  28. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    James Of England:

    Jamie Lockett:

    Isaac Smith:

    Jamie Lockett:This is a good point, but I think we’re asking more of Ted Cruz than we would ask of anyone else in this situation.

    He pledged to support the eventual Republican nominee. He got a prime time speaking spot at the convention. He either should have honored his pledge or stayed home.

    Trump himself said the pledge was meaningless months ago, yet you hold Ted Cruz to it? Give me a break.

    I don’t find Trump to be a useful arbiter of morality. I’m mildly disappointed that you do.

    I’m mildly disappointed that you think morality has anything to do with political maneuvering.

    • #88
  29. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    James Of England:

    Jamie Lockett:

    James Of England: The first is that the strongest word in the speech is conscience; he’s implying that it’s a morally bad act to vote for Trump,

    He didn’t say that though. He did not mention Trump’s name at all except to congratulate him. If people take that statement to mean that voting for Trump is a violation of their conscience then that’s more their problem than Cruz’s.

    I agree that if there was no pre-existing trope to buy into, his words would not have carried that meaning. I find it hard to imagine that you’re so cut off from the conservative world that you’re not familiar with the context, though.

    I am familiar with the context, that Trump fails to live up to what would be required for even the most mild conservative to vote for him in good conscience is Trump’s problem.

    • #89
  30. Anuschka Inactive
    Anuschka
    @Anuschka

    If Cruz was so offended by Trump’s treatment of his family, why did he agree to speak? He knows this convention is Trump’s coronation. Why not stay away, like Kasich? Either Cruz’s ego is so big that he thinks he can insult the entire party by pissing on it, or he’s a self-destructive masochist.

    • #90
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