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  1. Tom Riehl Member
    Tom Riehl
    @

    Marion Evans:

    David Sussman:Anecdotally, my mostly left-of-center British friends and family all support Brexit. They are terrified of England becoming another Germany and certainly don’t want to pay for it.

    Really? Terrified of becoming another Germany? Is that the worst that can happen to a country?

    Depends on which historical version of Germany you are referring to.  Nothing is static.

    • #31
  2. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    Tom Riehl:

    Marion Evans:

    David Sussman:Anecdotally, my mostly left-of-center British friends and family all support Brexit. They are terrified of England becoming another Germany and certainly don’t want to pay for it.

    Really? Terrified of becoming another Germany? Is that the worst that can happen to a country?

    Depends on which historical version of Germany you are referring to. Nothing is static.

    Between “Nazis” and “So afraid of Nazis they won’t even defend their own nation’s right to exist” neither is particularly appealing.

    • #32
  3. Tom Riehl Member
    Tom Riehl
    @

    Umbra Fractus:

    Tom Riehl:

    Marion Evans:

    David Sussman:Anecdotally, my mostly left-of-center British friends and family all support Brexit. They are terrified of England becoming another Germany and certainly don’t want to pay for it.

    Really? Terrified of becoming another Germany? Is that the worst that can happen to a country?

    Depends on which historical version of Germany you are referring to. Nothing is static.

    Between “Nazis” and “So afraid of Nazis they won’t even defend their own nation’s right to exist” neither is particularly appealing.

    Quite a range you cite!  I was thinking more about 20 years ago versus today.  Merkel is a cipher, in my humble opinion.

    • #33
  4. She Member
    She
    @She

    Umbra Fractus:

    She: And there are many positive reasons for bailing on the EU, as can be seen in a quick whip-through of just about any reputable search engine.

    I believe you have me pegged for the wrong side here.

    I haven’t a clue what side you’re on, and was just stating a fact, not suggesting you should go look . . .

    • #34
  5. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Peter and all,

    I am obviously thrilled for Britain and the respect for Liberty worldwide that Brexit implies. However, we should realize why the EU isn’t just an economic problem. Its desire for total control may be expressed in the softest most politically correct terms but make no mistake they intend to have complete control of all lives in Europe with no democratic checks and balances in their way.

    EXCLUSIVE: Major Liberal Orgs Slam Facebook-EU Plans To Block Free Speech

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #35
  6. She Member
    She
    @She

    James Gawron:

    She:Oh, I hope that’s true.

    And that the Brits are using the same logic as many American voters have embraced this year:

    We know what the next century will be like if we stay in the EU.

    We don’t know if things will be better if we bail, but they might, and we might get it right some of the time . . .

    It strikes me that all the fear mongering about what will happen if the UK leaves the EU merely demonstrates how very weakened being in it has made her. As is true of many things, “better out than in” might be the order of the day.

    Fingers crossed.

    She,

    That’s my Englishwoman talking.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Hi Jim,

    Nice music.  Think you were looking for this picture:

    bt

    • #36
  7. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    She:

    James Gawron:

    She:Oh, I hope that’s true.

    And that the Brits are using the same logic as many American voters have embraced this year:

    We know what the next century will be like if we stay in the EU.

    We don’t know if things will be better if we bail, but they might, and we might get it right some of the time . . .

    It strikes me that all the fear mongering about what will happen if the UK leaves the EU merely demonstrates how very weakened being in it has made her. As is true of many things, “better out than in” might be the order of the day.

    Fingers crossed.

    She,

    That’s my Englishwoman talking.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Hi Jim,

    Nice music. Think you were looking for this picture:

    bt

    She,

    Nice! How about this couple.

    sambritannia

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #37
  8. Sarah Joyce Inactive
    Sarah Joyce
    @SarahJoyce

    Penfold:

    >unelected frog and Hun bureaucrats,

    Frogs? By this I assume you mean French. Dear me, what would Hercule Poirot say?

    Poirot is Belgian, mon ami, but I’d like to hear what he’d say about the EU and its capital ;) He’d probably reach for his rosary!

    I do hope the UK opts for exit. Should they Bremain, however, the seams holding the EU together will inevitably pop elsewhere.

    • #38
  9. profdlp Inactive
    profdlp
    @profdlp

    Penfold:

    >unelected frog and Hun bureaucrats,

    Frogs? By this I assume you mean French. Dear me, what would Hercule Poirot say?

    Ribbit?

    • #39
  10. Stephen Bishop Inactive
    Stephen Bishop
    @StephenBishop

    Penfold:

    >unelected frog and Hun bureaucrats,

    Frogs? By this I assume you mean French. Dear me, what would Hercule Poirot say?

    As a Belgian I’m sure he would be delighted.

    • #40
  11. Brian Wolf Inactive
    Brian Wolf
    @BrianWolf

    I have been finding hard to believe good news lately and this is really great news.  I so wish it were true it would such lovely news.  History of England Podcast will not have end on such a sour note now…

    • #41
  12. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    If the market for British Pound Futures is any indication Brexit is becoming much likely in the past couple of days.

    I think those selling the pound on likelihood of Brexit are foolish.

    • #42
  13. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    Sarah Joyce:

    Penfold:

    >unelected frog and Hun bureaucrats,

    Frogs? By this I assume you mean French. Dear me, what would Hercule Poirot say?

    Poirot is Belgian, mon ami, but I’d like to hear what he’d say about the EU and its capital ;) He’d probably reach for his rosary!

    I do hope the UK opts for exit. Should they Bremain, however, the seams holding the EU together will inevitably pop elsewhere.

    Interestingly, I think.it might be Germany who needs.to watch for flying buttons.

    • #43
  14. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    BrentB67: I think those selling the pound on likelihood of Brexit are foolish.

    There will be an initial decline due to Britain initially losing free trade access to Europe, but that will be quickly rectified and the pound should bounce back.

    • #44
  15. Ross C Inactive
    Ross C
    @RossC

    Well, that sounds good, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

    I don’t think the Brits will vote yes, but I will be delighted if they do.

    • #45
  16. Charles Mark Member
    Charles Mark
    @CharlesMark

    This “Rule Britannia” stuff is outdated imperialist hogwash.

    But I’m all for Brexit, even though (because?) the elites keep saying it will be a disaster for Ireland. It’s time the EU bureaucracy got a bloody nose.

    Here in Ireland the people twice voted against treaties leading to closer integration ( Nice and Lisbon) but we just had to vote again in each instance and the majority succumbed the second time around.

    • #46
  17. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Charles Mark:This “Rule Britannia” stuff is outdated imperialist hogwash.

    But I’m all for Brexit, even though (because?) the elites keep saying it will be a disaster for Ireland. It’s time the EU bureaucracy got a bloody nose.

    Here in Ireland the people twice voted against treaties leading to closer integration ( Nice and Lisbon) but we just had to vote again in each instance and the majority succumbed the second time around.

    Imperialist hogwash?

    Huh.

    • #47
  18. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    Bryan G. Stephens:

    Charles Mark:This “Rule Britannia” stuff is outdated imperialist hogwash.

    But I’m all for Brexit, even though (because?) the elites keep saying it will be a disaster for Ireland. It’s time the EU bureaucracy got a bloody nose.

    Here in Ireland the people twice voted against treaties leading to closer integration ( Nice and Lisbon) but we just had to vote again in each instance and the majority succumbed the second time around.

    Imperialist hogwash?

    Huh.

    Word of advice: Don’t argue British Imperialism with an Irishman.

    Just don’t.

    • #48
  19. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Umbra Fractus:

    Bryan G. Stephens:

    Charles Mark:This “Rule Britannia” stuff is outdated imperialist hogwash.

    But I’m all for Brexit, even though (because?) the elites keep saying it will be a disaster for Ireland. It’s time the EU bureaucracy got a bloody nose.

    Here in Ireland the people twice voted against treaties leading to closer integration ( Nice and Lisbon) but we just had to vote again in each instance and the majority succumbed the second time around.

    Imperialist hogwash?

    Huh.

    Word of advice: Don’t argue British Imperialism with an Irishman.

    Just don’t.

    The British Empire was no more perfect than the Roman Empire. It also brought civilization around the world. It defeated the French Empire.

    It birthed America.

    I don’t care who it is on the other side, Irish, Indian or American. It does not changes the facts: The world is better today because of the existence of the British Empire.

    • #49
  20. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Bryan G. Stephens:

    Charles Mark:This “Rule Britannia” stuff is outdated imperialist hogwash.

    But I’m all for Brexit, even though (because?) the elites keep saying it will be a disaster for Ireland. It’s time the EU bureaucracy got a bloody nose.

    Here in Ireland the people twice voted against treaties leading to closer integration ( Nice and Lisbon) but we just had to vote again in each instance and the majority succumbed the second time around.

    Imperialist hogwash?

    Huh.

    Exactly. Imperialist hogwash.

    • #50
  21. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Bryan G. Stephens:It birthed America.

    I don’t care who it is on the other side, Irish, Indian or American. It does not changes the facts: The world is better today because of the existence of the British Empire.

    We threw off our imperialistic British overlords in 1776. The world is better today because we did it.

    • #51
  22. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Charles Mark:This “Rule Britannia” stuff is outdated imperialist hogwash.

    But I’m all for Brexit, even though (because?) the elites keep saying it will be a disaster for Ireland. It’s time the EU bureaucracy got a bloody nose.

    Here in Ireland the people twice voted against treaties leading to closer integration ( Nice and Lisbon) but we just had to vote again in each instance and the majority succumbed the second time around.

    Does Ireland have a lot fewer small retail shops now than it did in, say, 1999?  We made our first visit to Ireland that year, and I still have a handful of pre-Euro coins from that visit. I also noticed the many small, independent shops, as compared to the United States, but nobody ever gave me a good explanation as to how they thrived and survived in Ireland.

    We go back occasionally to visit our daughter (who now has Irish citizenship) and I can’t say I’ve noticed that the small shops have been replaced by chain stores. We still spend a lot of our time doing tourist things, so that may affect my perception.

    I have read Irish news articles, though, that make passing reference to the disappearance of small, independent businesses in Ireland.

    One. Is it true that this is a trend?

    Two. If so, should the EU get any credit/blame for it?

    • #52
  23. George Savage Member
    George Savage
    @GeorgeSavage

    Awesome news, especially since I have been head down dealing with government regulators for weeks on end.

    • #53
  24. Tom Riehl Member
    Tom Riehl
    @

    The Reticulator:

    Bryan G. Stephens:It birthed America.

    I don’t care who it is on the other side, Irish, Indian or American. It does not changes the facts: The world is better today because of the existence of the British Empire.

    We threw off our imperialistic British overlords in 1776. The world is better today because we did it.

    Yeah, like we didn’t build on the Magna Carta…

    The Jesuits and Her Majesty’s Navy civilized huge portions of the world, even more that Marcus Aurelius did.

    • #54
  25. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Tom Riehl:

    The Reticulator:

    Bryan G. Stephens:It birthed America.

    I don’t care who it is on the other side, Irish, Indian or American. It does not changes the facts: The world is better today because of the existence of the British Empire.

    We threw off our imperialistic British overlords in 1776. The world is better today because we did it.

    Yeah, like we didn’t build on the Magna Carta…

    The Jesuits and Her Majesty’s Navy civilized huge portions of the world, even more that Marcus Aurelius did.

    The Magna Carta wasn’t imperialistic.

    • #55
  26. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    The Reticulator:

    Tom Riehl:

    The Reticulator:

    Bryan G. Stephens:It birthed America.

    I don’t care who it is on the other side, Irish, Indian or American. It does not changes the facts: The world is better today because of the existence of the British Empire.

    We threw off our imperialistic British overlords in 1776. The world is better today because we did it.

    Yeah, like we didn’t build on the Magna Carta…

    The Jesuits and Her Majesty’s Navy civilized huge portions of the world, even more that Marcus Aurelius did.

    The Magna Carta wasn’t imperialistic.

    The same imperialistic spirit and imperialistic rhetoric, though, is what gave us ObamaCare: Civilize those ignorant American savages and give them nationalized health care like all the civilized countries have. You can’t expect uncouth people like that to make wise choices for themselves, so take away their guns and give it to them good and hard.

    • #56
  27. Charles Mark Member
    Charles Mark
    @CharlesMark

    Bryan G. Stephens:

    Charles Mark:This “Rule Britannia” stuff is outdated imperialist hogwash.

    But I’m all for Brexit, even though (because?) the elites keep saying it will be a disaster for Ireland. It’s time the EU bureaucracy got a bloody nose.

    Here in Ireland the people twice voted against treaties leading to closer integration ( Nice and Lisbon) but we just had to vote again in each instance and the majority succumbed the second time around.

    Imperialist hogwash?

    Huh.

    First things first. “Rule Britannia” celebrates the subjugation of various countries to foreign rule-whether they wanted it or not. So to use the slogan in the context of Britain seeking to regain its own sovereignty is odd, to say the least.

    And don’t tell me Britain looked after its Irish “possession” well. Under its malign rule we suffered the Great Famine in the mid-19th Century when our population was slashed by death and emigration. It has never recovered. How many countries, I wonder- have smaller populations now than they had 170 years ago?

    And remember that Ireland was then ostensibly fully-integrated into the United Kingdom. Nothing like that ever happened in the rest of the U.K.

    Just to be clear, I support  Brexit because I believe the British and other people of Europe are entitled to greater control over their own laws.

    • #57
  28. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Charles Mark:

    Bryan G. Stephens:

    Charles Mark:This “Rule Britannia” stuff is outdated imperialist hogwash.

    But I’m all for Brexit, even though (because?) the elites keep saying it will be a disaster for Ireland. It’s time the EU bureaucracy got a bloody nose.

    Here in Ireland the people twice voted against treaties leading to closer integration ( Nice and Lisbon) but we just had to vote again in each instance and the majority succumbed the second time around.

    Imperialist hogwash?

    Huh.

    First things first. “Rule Britannia” celebrates the subjugation of various countries to foreign rule-whether they wanted it or not. So to use the slogan in the context of Britain seeking to regain its own sovereignty is odd, to say the least.

    And don’t tell me Britain looked after its Irish “possession” well. Under its malign rule we suffered the Great Famine in the mid-19th Century when our population was slashed by death and emigration. It has never recovered. How many countries, I wonder- have smaller populations now than they had 170 years ago?

    And remember that Ireland was then ostensibly fully-integrated into the United Kingdom. Nothing like that ever happened in the rest of the U.K.

    Just to be clear, I support Brexit because I believe the British and other people of Europe are entitled to greater control over their own laws.

    On the whole, the British Empire was a force for good.

    The book I linked too made a good argument, which I cannot refute. The fact that it was not perfect does not mean it was not also good.

    A righteous sense of hurt is the best kind of emotion, and emotion trumps reason.

    If you want to see Britain and its empire s something to be hated, nothing I am going to say will change your mind. I am just as confounded by fellow southerners who are still angry over the Civil War.

    • #58
  29. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Bryan G. Stephens:On the whole, the British Empire was a force for good.

    The book I linked too made a good argument, which I cannot refute. The fact that it was not perfect does not mean it was not also good.

    A righteous sense of hurt is the best kind of emotion, and emotion trumps reason.

    If you want to see Britain and its empire s something to be hated, nothing I am going to say will change your mind. I am just as confounded by fellow southerners who are still angry over the Civil War.

    That’s the spirit! You can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

    • #59
  30. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    The Reticulator:

    Bryan G. Stephens:On the whole, the British Empire was a force for good.

    The book I linked too made a good argument, which I cannot refute. The fact that it was not perfect does not mean it was not also good.

    A righteous sense of hurt is the best kind of emotion, and emotion trumps reason.

    If you want to see Britain and its empire s something to be hated, nothing I am going to say will change your mind. I am just as confounded by fellow southerners who are still angry over the Civil War.

    That’s the spirit! You can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

    A deliberate attempt to compare the British Empire to Stalinist Russia.

    I think that comparison is faulty on the merits that the Brits did not kill hundreds of millions of people.

    I am sorry, though, you take my celebration of the British Empire so personally.

    • #60
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