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A Quick Question for the Ricochet Grammarians
Many of my Ohioan peers and coworkers omit the verb “to be” in passive constructions, especially when assigning tasks. They’ll say, “These shirts need folded,” rather than, “These shirts need to be folded,” or, “These shirts need folding.”
Today, I asked my Latin professor about this. She speculated that the form may be a “Germanism,” a bit like the infamous question, “Come with?” (In the 19th century, central Ohio harbored a sizable German population.) According to my German-major roommate, though, the German language, like English, permits only the infinitive (“needs to be folded”) and gerund (“needs folding”) in this situation.
Where, then, did “need folded” (and its variants) originate? Why would “to be” disappear from the passive? Is it merely linguistic laziness? Or an example of language’s natural tendency to simplify?
Published in General
“These shirts need folded.” I’ve never heard that kind of omission. Glossing over a linking verb in speech is not uncommon though. Linking verbs are very weak word or words, and many times weak words are passed over because the impulse is to get to the noun, and the weak verbs are so common that they are implied. It would not surprise me that’s a local slang, as some have said. I’ll have to ask people I know from Pensy.
I hear won the New Hampshire primary. Yeah, I passed over his name, because he’s weak.
A little googling confirms that it was indeed Kasich. At the South Carolina debate on January 14th his response to a question about police shootings included the words, “Because, folks, at the end of the day, the country needs healed.”
Kasich isn’t fom Pittsburgh . He is from McKees Rocks PA. As we say in the burgh he’s from the Rocks.
Oh my gosh. I grew up in central Ohio and “need folded” doesn’t make my ears tingle.
Decades ago – the early 50’s – my brilliant, eccentric Aunt Ann came home from college with a report about one of our local idioms. She had grown up, as had we all, using the expression: ” . . . in your road” as in “in your way. Example:
Am I in your road?
In some language or speech class – she learned that it is an expression peculiar to central Ohio.
PS Many, many German surnames in our local cemeteries. My mother’s family was “Reiheld. Formerly Reicheld as family lore went.
Hey! See my comment above!!!
I thought I was pretty well traveled, but I have never heard of these weird speech patterns in my whole life. I’ve known people from Ohio and PA, too. How have I never even heard them in movies or TV shows?? How do they remain so isolated?
Trink, we used that one too (NW Ohio). My German/Belgian grandmother used to say that some of the expressions in our family were based on “Pennsylvania Dutch,” which I always thought actually meant German.
Because the people who speak that way are themselves not well-traveled. Those that are have mostly figured out how the rest of the world speaks.
With a rising tone on the last syllable. Who says English isn’t a tonal language? Wisconsinites make it one.
MWA is right on here. Many of the the usages I commonly heard around the area as a college student are not as frequently employed decades later.
As for why they aren’t depicted in media…probably due to the user base being so small. The movie All the Right Moves with a teen Tom Cruise is one of the few movies that might have employed this local color. The right town, the right people– but yinz prolly woudn’a unnerstood what they were sayin’ an’at.
Yinz mean Ambridge or Alliquippa?
South Siders in Chicago say that! “Youse can come over by my house. We’ll barbecue an’ at.”
Reminds me of Steyn’s piece on Auld Lang Syne. It’s a relief when learning the lyrics that you’re not hard of hearing, that it really isn’t English.
This post and comments are fascinating. I’ve never known these speech patterns as regional practices. I thought they’re just speeches without proper grammar usage.
If you find that interesting, a few years ago, Joshua Katz of NC State University compiled maps of how Americans say things differently. You can find some of them here:
http://discovermagazine.com/galleries/2013/june/regional-us-language-dialect
So maybe it’s right after all?
I’ll take some special sauce on my English, thanks.
I can only guess how that actually sounds with the Chicago pronunciation.
A high-brow defense of youse (et al.) here.
Very interesting! I read it, but for me, there is no defense or excuse for “youse.” And the lowbrow “youse” is nothing at all like “y’all” or “you all.” Totally different. Oh, and if you want to imagine the pronunciation of my example sentence above, the accent is the same as Hillary Clinton’s. Another proclivity for midwesterners is to say “ben” for “been.” Hillary does this. (But she would never say “youse.” )
My family developed a variation on this, if something was really dirty it needed to be warshed, but if it was not too bad it needed to be washed. I think it came from the old man’s Appalachian roots, and when we were working with him in the shop, field, or feedlot, our clothes, hands, etc, needed awarshin’. If we were with mom around the house, we washed our hands before dinner. I’ve noticed that most of my cousins make the same distinction.
LOL, very good!
“too yet” isn’t right????? Huh, push me over with a feather!
My mom is from NW Iowa! I grew up in South Dakota, visiting the “old country” of Dutch farmer relatives every Saturday morning. 2 of my favorite phrases from Grandma and all her friends, (which may occasionally slip into my speech) “Of” to indicate familial descent, as in “Jeb and George OF George and Barbara.” And I dearly miss her “mayn’t.”
My southern grandma said “over yonder” instead of “over there,” even for short distances, as in “Would you hand me that book over yonder?” And she actually said “I declare.” And the Civil War was the War Between the States. A yankee dime is a kiss. My mother also said yankee dime.
Love that.
You are really bringing it all back. The familial “of” is a great one, particularly when there are two women with the same first name who marry into the same last name so they become – Harriet of Elrich or Harriet of Melvin. Also, are you familiar with the term “Dutch Bingo?” When relating an anecdote, the family trees of each respective party must be verbally filled in (more or less – just to keep everything straight!) Usually, by the time that’s done the anecdote has lost it’s urgency. My siblings always roll their eyes when the elders start with the Dutch Bingo, but I’m fascinated by it. Alas, living away from there means my own Dutch Bingo skills have grown a little rusty.
2 of my favorite phrases from Grandma and all her friends, (which may occasionally slip into my speech) “Of” to indicate familial descent, as in “Jeb and George OF George and Barbara.” And I dearly miss her “mayn’t.”
Oh those are good Dutch names! Harriet, Melvin, I could reel off the whole list! But I’d never heard of “Dutch Bingo” I have of course heard that practice, just not that term for it. I’ll ask Mom!
Wi•SCON•sin.
If you say “Wis•CON•sin” or “WIS•con•sin” or even worse: “WES•con•sin” — I’ll know immediately you’re not from here.
I always called it pop, but had too many friends from Milwaukee in college, and they converted me.
In Texas, everything is “a coke.” You will hear people say, “My favorite kind of coke is Orange Crush.”
I can’t even begin to guess why a kiss would be called a “Yankee dime.”