Ricochet is the best place on the internet to discuss the issues of the day, either through commenting on posts or writing your own for our active and dynamic community in a fully moderated environment. In addition, the Ricochet Audio Network offers over 50 original podcasts with new episodes released every day.
A Quick Question for the Ricochet Grammarians
Many of my Ohioan peers and coworkers omit the verb “to be” in passive constructions, especially when assigning tasks. They’ll say, “These shirts need folded,” rather than, “These shirts need to be folded,” or, “These shirts need folding.”
Today, I asked my Latin professor about this. She speculated that the form may be a “Germanism,” a bit like the infamous question, “Come with?” (In the 19th century, central Ohio harbored a sizable German population.) According to my German-major roommate, though, the German language, like English, permits only the infinitive (“needs to be folded”) and gerund (“needs folding”) in this situation.
Where, then, did “need folded” (and its variants) originate? Why would “to be” disappear from the passive? Is it merely linguistic laziness? Or an example of language’s natural tendency to simplify?
Published in General
Got that, Jojo?
“Ain’t have no satisfaction!”
It just ain’t right.
Yeah, stop or I’ll xerox your face until you need a kleenex.
Can we call it soda pop?
Just for reference, here’s the map:
I’ve noticed a change in the way prepositions are used, at least around here (Denver area). I always thought we waited in line. Now I hear we wait on line. And things used to happen by accident. Now they happen on accident. What’s going on? Is this a British import? Anybody else notice this?
Never heard the original formulation of the post, those shirts need folded, and I lived lots of places growing up and Air Force brat. And it’s pop.
Weren’t you the one griping the other week about how those of us in flyover country are being mean when we talk about New York Values, Fred?
I was speaking to someone who I had never spoken with before. It was a short conversation. At the end he asked if I was orginally from Pittsburgh. I asked how he knew. He said because you talk funny. He was also orginally from Pittsburgh.
We understand what the person means, we are just amused that this sounds normal to you. It is so obviously incorrect to people not from that small section of the country. The last word is a past tense verb describing a subject that is in an otherwise present tense sentence. The person speaking wants something to be done in the near future, but, for no apparent reason, describes the future action as if it has already happened.
Yeah, that soda thing has grown southward in my lifetime. It was a soft drink in the DC area when I was young.
This usage is common in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, heavily populated with Amish and Mennonites. My kids were raised there, and will use that phrasing ironically when talking to their Lancaster friends. “That Von Miller needs blocked.”
Hey, you made it. This might make number 1 in the Most Popular box. Awesome.
I don’t remember doing that.
If I did, please link to it.
If you don’t remember, it was probably someone else. Withdrawn.
“On line” used to be a New York thing. I hope to God it isn’t spreading. To my ear, “on accident” sounds like a four-year-old. I HATE it. I’ve also noticed people saying they’re “bored of” something, when we always said “bored with” or “bored by.” I don’t know how many of these are British imports, but I do know of one that is: calling redheads “gingers.” Stop it! This is America!
Definitely.
In America, Ginger = Tina Louise
Oh, that’s no guide. I don’t think I would’ve said anything like that, but it doesn’t mean that I didn’t.
I remember there was a post about it after the debate, but it’s too far back in time to be in my “followed conversations” page. I thought you started it, and that I think you’d remember. If you just participated, though, maybe.
Soda, on line . . . New Yorkese is spreading! Help!
Yes. It’s weird, I know. <grin> It’s almost as if because they said it, it is as good as done and they don’t need to give it another thought.
Never noticed when I lived there just how weird it sounds. I get more than a few chuckles whenever I go back, particularly by the use of the word Pop as a generic term for carbonated beverages because it just sounds so “cute”. Also the adding the letter R to words: such as, wash being pronounced “warsh” and I’m pronounced “arm” … is amusing.
When I first moved to Florida I drove my boss crazy saying “anyways” all the time. He kept correcting me saying, “anyway, there’s no S at the end”. He finally starting charging me a nickel every time I said anyways.
Is there a rule for “beside” versus “besides”?
And a few hundred miles to the east they’re removing “r”s.
In some places, they have conservation of Rs. They take ’em out of where they’re supposed to be and stick ’em in somewhere they aren’t.
Kylez were you thinking of Massachusetts? I think Boston has the strangest pronunciations of words, particularly names. I was there for about a month just outside of downtown, and every street/city/person’s name I mispronounced resulted in at least one person glaring at me. In particular, I remember pronouncing Worster just as it’s spelled was an almost unforgiveable error, akin to cussing. Truly, people would just stop mid-conversation and stare at me as if I had deliberately insulted them. I don’t remember exactly how they pronounced Worster but it was something like “Woosta”, no R’s at all.
Sticking R’s where they don’t belong? Where did you ever get that idear?
yes.
And “Quincy” is “Quinzy.”
All this reminds me of the joke about the young guy who arrives at Harvard on a scholarship, and he asks a snobby prep, “Do you know where the library’s at?” So the snob says, “Here at Harvard, we do not end sentences with a preposition.” And the scholarship kid says, “Oh, OK. Do you know where the library’s at, a**hole?”
The term for dialects that insert Rs is “rhotic.” The term for dialects that remove Rs is “non-rhotic.” Just a fun fact y’all can use.
“Oh, you have a non-rhotic dialect, I heah.”
At least they don’t put “the” in front of the names of Interstate highways like they do in California.
In the south, they put “the” in front of illnesses. “Oh, I have the cramps”