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Whose Money?
Bad ideas have a way of spreading. And “progressives” in America often turn to the Scandinavian countries for their cockeyed Utopian dreams and this one is a doozy – the Danes have put forward a proposal to allow brick and mortar retailers to refuse cash.
On the surface this sounds like a great convenience to the retailer. An all electronic system would help them cut costs and would certainly eliminate the threat of armed robbery, however much it increases the odds of cybercrime. But the real danger here is that it is the first step in achieving the dreams of Trond Andresen in creating the first cashless society.
Andresen is described in the press as being a “Norwegian academic” which is true to a point. He does make his living as a professor of electrical engineering but he’s more widely known as a communist activist.
His scheme is to totally replace money with credits. With no currency there is complete government control, no greenbacks under the mattress and certainly no underground economy. Everything is traceable, taxable and open to confiscation.
“Wait! Confiscation? That’s conspiracy talk and a serious C-O-C violation, bub!”
Andresen insists it’s just a way to avoid the booms and busts of capitalism. See, instead of stimulus packages and tinkering with interest rates, governments could simply start taking away your savings, forcing you to spend it or lose it. And during boom times when some bureaucrat decides you shouldn’t spend they can place a massive tax on every transaction.
Of course they couch it in terms of “negative interest” and “modest penalties” but it is what it is: confiscation.
On every US coin is stamped the word “Liberty” and a truer expression could not be uttered. As long as you have the coin in your pocket you have the freedom to keep it or spend it as you wish.
Published in General
And every bill is printed with the words, “This note is legal tender for all debts public and private”.
As someone who lives almost his entire life by cash I like it that way. One of the main reasons is that I don’t want every corporation in America tracking every purchase I make. It’s just none of their damn business. Forget about the government doing the same. That’s just creepy.
This just shows how absolutely trusting of government this guy and whoever agrees with him is.
Next he should propose standard government housing and relocation for everyone. So much more efficient!
Apropos of Nothing: Australia announced a deposit tax in their 2015 budget:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/the-problem-with-joe-hockeys-bank-deposit-tax/story-fnp85nwc-1227284794476
Well if a business want to refuse cash, so be it. I think a business should be able to accept whatever terms of payment they want, whether it be cash, credit or marbles. That doesn’t mean I have to do business with them.
The point is that there will be no choice. All businesses / people will be forced to do business this way.
While the main point is and should be the loss of freedom this would entail there’s another aspect. Who processes the electronic transactions? Businesses pay a fee to the credit card companies in order to accept the cards. Mandating plastic only would enshrine these companies into a crony-capitalistic oligopoly. Err… more than they already are.
I suspect this has more to do with taxation than anything else. I have seen such discussion before. The point is to tax the shadow economies and black markets.
No, Andresen is pretty upfront with all of his goals. From his paper (all bold is my emphasis):
And this:
Taxes are just a side benefit.
Implementing that plan would be a boom for barter, which then would be outlawed. More crimes! Make everything a crime, then you have total control. Alternate currencies would emerge (vodka, drugs…) I swear these people think they can control everything with no consequenses.
Nothing is yours. Everything belongs to the State, even your money.
I read that article yesterday and was appalled at the overt Stalinism. It’s shocking. The author should be tarred and feathered.
Exactly the motive.
I had to laugh when the Democrats kept saying during the Great Recession that forming a small business was the answer to the economic downturn.
I could write a tome on how funny that is just from the capital-finding problems and the regulation and EPA problems people would have. If ever there were the let-them-eat-cake remark from the academic Democrats, that was it.
But what really made me laugh was how the Democrats were doing themselves in. They are the paycheck party–the Democrats get their cut first from everyone’s employment earnings. It’s nice little extortion system they have going.
These solo entrepreneurships they were extolling would result in individuals’ being able to deduct their business expenses from their gross income, which would result in said Democrats’ getting less tax revenue.
Hahaha.
Hey, let ’em try it. If it works, good for them. If it doesn’t, they’ll switch to something else. It’s not hurting us any.
These fools. I’m no gold bug, but the simple fact remains: there are other means by which you can exchange value with people that don’t involve paper currency. Gold would quickly replace cash in any number of underground transactions. It too has the advantage of being a compact compared to its value.
The Government is also (ironically) strongly incentivized to not print money to the point where the value of convenient denominations would sink below their weight in gold or risk people fleeing the currency.
Does this guy know nothing?
In addition to this reason, I try to do cash business with mom and pops–as Mr Rhody noted, the transaction fees on credit card purchases are non-zero. Often, they’re even more non-zero for ATM/debit card purchases. And it’s the mom and pops that pay that vig.
Eric Hines
Darn, outfoxed again.
Them: Sir, we’re taking away free speech. Me: Molon Labe.
Them: Sir, we’re taking away your guns. Me: Molon Labe.
Them: Sir, we’re taking away your cash. Me. Molon Labe.
Them: Done.
Maybe use Swiss Franks instead? Neighboring countries’ currency? There has got to be a way to use currency without obeying the state! It ain’t the world state yet!
Yes, it is. It’s a wonder it has not spread yet. Do you think there is any way for people to escape this with something like bitcoin? If there is, is there any prospect of massive adoption–or is this limited to people who pay a lot of attention to what bitcoins are & do?
Nice shades.
You don’t understand the concept of tender. If you refuse my cash, I can take what I was attempting to buy without paying for it. If I offer you legal tender it means I have completed the terms of the contract to buy. It’s not my fault you refuse it. It’s what “legal tender” means.
hm.
I certainly did not understand this concept–I’m not too clear on it now–could not this negate the religious objections lately in the press & courts, to do with homosexuals requiring things some businesses do not wish to do?
You had better believe that the first steps are already being taken. For reasons too long to go into, a few months ago I withdrew 1,200 dollars from my bank and tried to deposit the cash into my son’s account at his bank – Chase. They flat refused to accept the deposit. Just flat refused. Chase apparently has a policy of not allowing cash deposits into an account that is not yours. They’d let me deposit a check …. But not cash.
They eventually relented but only after a half hour fight with the Manager in front of other customers ( apparently the idea that Chase had a problem with cash was alarming the other customers ) AND after they took a photocopy of my ID and the withdrawl slip from my bank.
This reminds of an old episode of the TV show The Practice. Guy owes back taxes. Writes the date, “pay to the order of” the tax agency, an amount and signs the side of a live pig, and then turns the pig loose in the tax office. Ends up in court of course, where he wins because he offered a legal form of payment, whether or not the tax agency cashes the pig.
Used to be the banks had to report cash transactions of $10K or more: on the watch for money laundering. They’d still take the cash though.
Banking must be doing pretty well if they turn their noses up at cash. I don’t know a lot of people who do that-
No. Tender has to do with the acceptance of an offer. The store owners aren’t offering to sell under those circumstances. They probably wanted to pay with a credit card anyway.
In America you would have to amend the Constitution, which puts very strict requirements on how govt can impose a direct tax. Imposing negative interest rates in a cashless world is effectively a wealth tax and doesn’t meet the Constitution’s requirement for how such a direct tax could be imposed.
Reading some of the comments of people wondering how to make private transactions, there might be room in the market for this sort of thing again.
So a credit card denominated in Bitcoins is acceptable? The dumbest thing a Government could do in outlawing cash is create a demand for an untraceable alternative to cash.
Fyi. Chase’s Cash Deposit Policy:
We’re making some changes to how we accept cash deposits at our branches.
*Only account owners and signers will be able to make cash deposits to a personal account, and
*Customers will need to be prepared to show an ID to make cash deposits.
These requirements apply only to cash deposits made to personal accounts at a branch and do not affect other types of deposits, including check deposits.
Some of our branches are already enforcing these requirements; all of our branches will be enforcing them by March 3rd.
We’re trying to do more to combat money laundering and other criminal activities. Changes like this help us to do that. We’re sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.