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Would You Vote For Independence For Your State?
Yesterday, Peter asked how we all would vote on independence for Scotland, but I have a question for you: if you could be certain it wouldn’t cause a war, would you vote for independence for your state?
Now, I realize that the question is very different from Peter’s — Scotland having a very long and very different history from England, different people, different language, different culture — but I think it’s still relevant.
In my case, I live in New York State and I would vote an emphatic No. The nut of the case is that — if governments must exist — they should do so only to protect the rights of their citizens.
Despite meeting not far from my house, I don’t trust the New York State Legislature to protect my rights. As terrible as Uncle Sam is, I have a better shot of the Constitution of the United States protecting my rights than the State of New York.
I don’t know how to answer Peter’s question. While on general principle, I’d prefer smaller and smaller polities (preferably the smallest possible one, the individual) living in New York and not Scotland, I don’t have enough information. I don’t know which way to vote to have my rights better protected. The living under the control of White Hall sounds terrible, but Holyrood sounds worse, somehow. But like I said, I don’t have enough information.
So, again, how would you vote for independence for your state? If you live somewhere other than the US, please modify appropriately to province, or canton, or whatever, as per your local situation.
Image Credit: Shutterstock user spirit of america.
Published in General
The only Ford Field I miss is the one they built the Trimotors at. (Flew on one back in the 1960s when Island Airlines still operated them. How long ago was that? The pilot let me sit in the co-pilot’s seat.)
Seawriter
Y’all come on down. We’ll be glad to have Ya. If You need employment, with Yer avatar as an application, I’ll find room in My Cabinet for Ya (liquor, that is).
Step 1, vote yes.
Step 2, start hunting the carpetbaggers around DC
You know, rather than breaking up the states, it makes a lot more sense to simply break up the federal government. There is no longer any reason for the whole shebang to be in one city (DC). By spreading the federal government all across the country and making the folks in DC live and work among the rest of us, we could achieve enormous change. And hopefully, as in most big moves, the moving vans would manage to break or lose a couple of things – like the Dept. of Energy & Dept. of Education.
Then we could convert DC in a very large and profitable National Amusement History Park.
If I were back home in Texas, I would do it in a heart beat. I would lobby the state legislature to pass a bill putting the Texas State Guard under their control and kick out the US Army at Ft. Hood and then move to secede. The gentleman above said that he is an American first and a Georgian second. Well I call myself a citizen wherever there is Liberty. I am not duty bound to a geographical area but to an idea and that idea is that all men and women are equal under the law and free to rise or fall as they see fit. Texas is one of the best places in the US where that is possible…..for now. You are an American first and a Georgian second. Well I am a free man first and an American second. The moment America ceases to be free is the moment that I take up arms against her.
The world’s safety and security depend on the United States armed forces. Breaking up the Union would leave us like the EU, with a nominal alliance and a bunch of Secretaries of State meeting and talking and issuing firmly worded declarations that amount to nothing. No thanks.
I’d vote NO.
My state is Illinois also. It’s the state the other states would be voting to secede from.
If I lived in Texas, the answer would be “yes”
If you want to go there, I am a Christian, Husband, Father, Friend, Therapist, Honorable Man, and then an American. I thought we were talking citizenship.
Being a “Free Man” is not a type of citizenship, it is a state of being. Someone living alone in the wilderness might be considered a “free man”, but no citizen is fully free. Citizenship is not just about your personal freedom, but also about what you give up to support the greater community. What those things are, and where those lines are drawn, is the stuff of politics. For all of us there is a point at which those lines push us into rebellion against the community. Then we overtly, or covertly, renounce our citizenship, and leave or fight.
I consider myself a “free man” also. But I am citizen of The United States of American, The State of Georgia, Cobb County, and the City of Marietta. At any time, I am free to leave any of those organizations and go elsewhere, without taking up arms against any of them. I am limited in some of my actions by the laws of the communities I choose to live in (I cannot burn leaves). I have the right to vote in all of these to improve things, run for office, and work to make changes. You might not think we are free in America, but I beg to differ. We have great freedoms that people in other times and places would love to have.
What secures those freedoms is having a strong nation to protect them. The Federal Government brought freedom to the slaves, and later increased the freedom of blacks by ending the Jim Crow. That was locals abusing power, and the Feds stepping in. Texas was one of those states, so Texas is by no means perfect. Texas is also the state that has all the rough DA’s. Food for thought.
Without America, evil men around the world would be free to move. Is the US broke up, do you think Russia or China would be stronger or weaker. The New Republic of Texas would not be able to stand up to China
No, America is still the greatest Republic in history.
Arizona is kind of like Texas’ kid brother. If the Republic of Texas goes rogue, I’ll be tempted to seize a land bridge across New Mexico. The I-10 corridor should fall fast and will ensure control over the chile fields of Hatch, N.M.
I live in CA. I’d vote yes – then move out before it went into effect. I figure w/o its electoral votes dragging the country leftward, the rest of the country would probably do ok.
I thought Arizona and New Mexico were wary of Texas. Part of that is due to Texas’s attempt to conquer both states during the Civil War when they were still territories. There was some residual hostility to Texas back in the 1980s, when I visited Arizona on business. My “Aw shucks, ahm fr’m Texas” routine generally gets a smile throughout the United States. It did not in Arizona.
(Yes, I know, I was actually born in Michigan, but I’ve been in Texas now 35 years. Besides, who wants to be called “Mich”?)
Seawriter
Independence would work fine for Vermont, Texas or Hawaii. The other states don’t have strong enough identities to justify nationhood.
As a fellow NYer, I would be tempted to vote “yes” and leave if it passed. This state has its gubernatorial head up its legislative bum, and I’m not sure I can die before it all comes crashing down.
Living in California I agree with you. I don’t trust the California government more the Washington. If I were in Texas, Idaho, Montana etc. I would vote yes.
The only reason you can trust the Texas state government is they only meet for three months every other year. They are just a venal and self-serving as legislators everywhere. They are not in the capitol long enough to really make mischief is all.
The trick is keep ’em busy with real work. Idle hands are the devil’s playground goes triple for politicians. Keep them in session just long enough to do the real work and send them home.
Seawriter
I’v always argued the Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and British Columbia (perhaps Alaska as well) should secede and form their own country. I think we have enough of the things we need to sustain our population.
that said, Fred’s premise regarding the Constitution is a good one. I would want to know that something equal was in place for the newly created nation. And given the liberal nature of Washington and Oregon, I doubt that’d would be the case.
Hello All
Up in Northern Idaho we are already separated, just not divorced yet. We completely ignore the Federal Government, live life free and are a progressive free zone.
You can only be a sheep if you follow!
Chainsaw
I would vote “yes.” Somehow Nevada has to get free of being a fully owned subsidiary of the federal government, and it’s citizens need to be able to determine their own destiny. That isn’t going to happen so long as Washington DC directly administers 87% of our state.
C’mon now, let’s be honest: apart from your side of Lake Tahoe, which is lovely, most of Nevada is owned by the federal government because no one else wants it…
Speaking as an Alaskan…I’d consider it. It would be incredibly difficult for me to ever take down the American flag, but if it no longer represented what it was created for, I would have no allegiance to it. While I have much respect for Texas (you have such a cute little state) and others, we in Alaska really have no need for the rest of you. We have abundant resources across the board, a well armed populace of sturdy, experienced folk, international relations that predate statehood, and an unconquerable geography.
Still, I don’t know? It’s a tough one to consider.
The Mamas And The Papas – California Dreamin …
See, here’s the thing: If I knew I was going to do that, I wouldn’t. Its one thing to vote no and leave if it passes. But to vote yes, then leave, I’d consider immoral.
But I’m weird when it comes to voting.
My situation’s similar to Fred’s: I’d trust an unshackled Beacon Hill less than I do Beacon Hill checked by Washington. Which is sad.
While we absolutely needed the Philadelphia Constitution in 1787, we’d probably benefit from a reformed Articles of Confederation now.
It’s beyond hilarious that you bring up “rough DA’s” because if you are thinking of the two I am they are both from Travis County, one of the most Leftist areas of Texas and the country as a whole.
My point is that I hold no allegiance to a place, but to an idea. For now, yes, I too am a citizen of Prince George’s county Maryland, which isn’t the freest place on earth by any stretch. I interact with neighbors and local government and vote, just as you do. I perform my civic duty. But Maryland, as backwards as it is, has yet to completely go off the deep end. It’s not quite Europe. Once that happens, I hope to be able to leave for free pastures. The idea of what it means to be “American” is rooted in fealty to Liberty, not to a place. And while the US isn’t nearly as bad as Russia, China, or any of the havens of hate in the Muslim world, it certainly isn’t as free as it was when I was a child let alone 50 years ago–yes, even with Jim Crow.
Citizenship means very little to me if it comes with shackles of any kind. And I am not looking for “total freedom” as you may be assuming as a means of countering what I am saying. I simply want the US to live by its own rules as spelled out in the Constitution. And it most definitely is not.
New York here. I’d vote for independence and then move back to mother country, just to get rid of NY. :)
Seriously, I do not believe succession should ever be an option for any state of the union. Now breaking up a state is a possibility.
In honor of the Scots, I’d vote “not proven“.
I would not support New York seceding from the union but I would vote for upstate to secede from the state. Being an upstater, I would love to remove the influence of New York city from our politics.
Living in Utah it would be awesome to seize all Federal land inside our state but in the end it would probably end up in disaster. My Mormon pioneer ancestors immigrated (kicked out, evicted) to Utah to get away from the federal government. That side of me is for it. But there’s too many benefits to being in a union.
I want independence from my province.
New Mexico is the nation’s only truly socialist state. We would never survive without federal largesse. Consider:
New Mexico is the only state with a larger government sector (federal, state, and local combined) than its private sector.
New Mexico gets more dollars per capita from Washington than any state in the union.
We rank, not coincidentally, last in public education, last in job growth, and second in the number of people living in poverty at 22%. So who is it exactly who is pushing Governor Martinez for president?