How does a ship lose power this way?

 

This is going to end up being declared a preventable accident. My prediction is that money was saved on maintenance and had a catastrophic failure at the wrong time and people died.

Whomever owns this company should be extradited when it all comes out.

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  1. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    General Average ie liability of shippers

    https://theloadstar.com/dali-cargo-owners-face-massive-costs-if-general-average-is-declared/

    Who owns the cargo? If I bought a bicycle gadget from a German niche manufacturer and it was being shipped to me on that boat, do I have to help pay for a new bridge? Does it depend on my social credit score?

    Yes, if you own cargo on the ship you might have a share of liability. Let me try to explain why this outcome may not be as ridiculous as it might sound initially.

    As maritime law developed (and maybe still), ships didn’t have regularly scheduled routes. A person wanting to move cargo chartered a ship (or a part of a ship) and directed it as to where to deliver the cargo, and the ship would go there. In this case, the ship was leaving Baltimore because the owners of the cargo on board told the ship owner (or operator) to take their cargo somewhere else. Holding the cargo owner (in addition to the ship owner) liable for any damages the ship causes while navigating that route helped to incentivize the cargo owner to charter reliable, competent ships (as opposed to going strictly with the “lowest bidder” regardless of competence).

    As to your bicycle gadget, the first question would be when you take ownership of the gadget. FOB (“free on board”) a shipper at the point of origin (Germany) (in which case you own it (and any liability associated with it) during its transit, or FOB on the ship at a port near you (in which case the seller owns it (and any liability associated with it) during transit, or FOB the dock at the port near you, or maybe not until a later time such as when it lands on your dock (doorstep). That depends on the terms of sale between you (the purchaser) and the seller. Those terms also allocate who suffers the loss if the ship sinks in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. One company for which I worked operated exclusively in the United States, out of a plant in Orange County, California. That company sold only FOB at that plant. It was up to the buyer to get the product from that plant’s dock to wherever the customer wanted it. The company knew nothing of how to handle shipping, so any issues that arose after the product left the company’s dock were the buyer’s issues. Another company for which I worked had facilities all over the world, and was actively involved in getting the product up and running at the customer’s facility, so the seller company retained ownership (and control) until the product was delivered to the customer’s facility anywhere in the world.

    But someone who buys a foreign-made item, in this example case, is probably never in control of how it gets shipped. No matter what a sales contract might say. Various freight forwarding services etc do that, and they would be dealing with the seller, not the buyer.

    There is always a discrete point where legal change of ownership occurs.

    For most individuals, for most things, that would be when it arrives at their home.

    Lots of places have disclaimers that are unenforceable.

    • #151
  2. Chris O Coolidge
    Chris O
    @ChrisO

     

     

    • #152
  3. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    General Average ie liability of shippers

    https://theloadstar.com/dali-cargo-owners-face-massive-costs-if-general-average-is-declared/

    Who owns the cargo? If I bought a bicycle gadget from a German niche manufacturer and it was being shipped to me on that boat, do I have to help pay for a new bridge? Does it depend on my social credit score?

    What about all the military people whose cars and household goods are shipped overseas and back?  or moving household goods to new home inside the US?

    • #153
  4. Steve C. Member
    Steve C.
    @user_531302

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    General Average ie liability of shippers

    https://theloadstar.com/dali-cargo-owners-face-massive-costs-if-general-average-is-declared/

    Who owns the cargo? If I bought a bicycle gadget from a German niche manufacturer and it was being shipped to me on that boat, do I have to help pay for a new bridge? Does it depend on my social credit score?

    Yes, if you own cargo on the ship you might have a share of liability. Let me try to explain why this outcome may not be as ridiculous as it might sound initially.

    As maritime law developed (and maybe still), ships didn’t have regularly scheduled routes. A person wanting to move cargo chartered a ship (or a part of a ship) and directed it as to where to deliver the cargo, and the ship would go there. In this case, the ship was leaving Baltimore because the owners of the cargo on board told the ship owner (or operator) to take their cargo somewhere else. Holding the cargo owner (in addition to the ship owner) liable for any damages the ship causes while navigating that route helped to incentivize the cargo owner to charter reliable, competent ships (as opposed to going strictly with the “lowest bidder” regardless of competence).

    As to your bicycle gadget, the first question would be when you take ownership of the gadget. FOB (“free on board”) a shipper at the point of origin (Germany) (in which case you own it (and any liability associated with it) during its transit, or FOB on the ship at a port near you (in which case the seller owns it (and any liability associated with it) during transit, or FOB the dock at the port near you, or maybe not until a later time such as when it lands on your dock (doorstep). That depends on the terms of sale between you (the purchaser) and the seller. Those terms also allocate who suffers the loss if the ship sinks in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. One company for which I worked operated exclusively in the United States, out of a plant in Orange County, California. That company sold only FOB at that plant. It was up to the buyer to get the product from that plant’s dock to wherever the customer wanted it. The company knew nothing of how to handle shipping, so any issues that arose after the product left the company’s dock were the buyer’s issues. Another company for which I worked had facilities all over the world, and was actively involved in getting the product up and running at the customer’s facility, so the seller company retained ownership (and control) until the product was delivered to the customer’s facility anywhere in the world.

    But someone who buys a foreign-made item, in this example case, is probably never in control of how it gets shipped. No matter what a sales contract might say. Various freight forwarding services etc do that, and they would be dealing with the seller, not the buyer.

    There is always a discrete point where legal change of ownership occurs.

    INCO terms apply.

    • #154
  5. Steve C. Member
    Steve C.
    @user_531302

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    General Average ie liability of shippers

    https://theloadstar.com/dali-cargo-owners-face-massive-costs-if-general-average-is-declared/

    Who owns the cargo? If I bought a bicycle gadget from a German niche manufacturer and it was being shipped to me on that boat, do I have to help pay for a new bridge? Does it depend on my social credit score?

    What about all the military people whose cars and household goods are shipped overseas and back? or moving household goods to new home inside the US?

    I presume the US government for a military move at sea. For a domestic move the carrier is typically liable. But that depends on the contract between the government and the carrier. In the olden days carrier liability for domestic moves was some monetary rate per pound. 

    • #155
  6. Sisyphus Member
    Sisyphus
    @Sisyphus

    I noticed one news outlet making a fuss that the government refuses to comment on the number of “national security” ships bottled up in Baltimore. That would mean the government is doing something right, holding close information that an enemy might find a way to exploit. I grant them the benefit of assuming that they are on top of such critical facts. 

    • #156
  7. Sisyphus Member
    Sisyphus
    @Sisyphus

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    General Average ie liability of shippers

    https://theloadstar.com/dali-cargo-owners-face-massive-costs-if-general-average-is-declared/

    Who owns the cargo? If I bought a bicycle gadget from a German niche manufacturer and it was being shipped to me on that boat, do I have to help pay for a new bridge? Does it depend on my social credit score?

    What about all the military people whose cars and household goods are shipped overseas and back? or moving household goods to new home inside the US?

    I presume the US government for a military move at sea. For a domestic move the carrier is typically liable. But that depends on the contract between the government and the carrier. In the olden days carrier liability for domestic moves was some monetary rate per pound.

    Back under Clinton I worked on software for managing insurance claims/settlement arising from federally managed personnel relocations. To my recollection, the actual insuring was done by private insurers under contract.

    • #157
  8. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Steve C. (View Comment):

    General Average ie liability of shippers

    https://theloadstar.com/dali-cargo-owners-face-massive-costs-if-general-average-is-declared/

    Who owns the cargo? If I bought a bicycle gadget from a German niche manufacturer and it was being shipped to me on that boat, do I have to help pay for a new bridge? Does it depend on my social credit score?

    What about all the military people whose cars and household goods are shipped overseas and back? or moving household goods to new home inside the US?

    I presume the US government for a military move at sea. For a domestic move the carrier is typically liable. But that depends on the contract between the government and the carrier. In the olden days carrier liability for domestic moves was some monetary rate per pound.

    The government is the customer for military moves so I agree with you. 

    • #158
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