Do Republicans Ever Fight Back?

 

While Republicans were dithering around, trying to figure out if they could stop Biden’s Executive Order for canceling student loan debt, a creative Libertarian identified a way to stop the legislation. Especially valuable was that he identified that he had standing to sue, which was anticipated as a major roadblock to this kind of challenge.

The EO should not have come as a surprise to anyone. Biden first mentioned it during his campaign and then in March 2020. Apparently, no one took him seriously:

Conservative groups have been threatening to challenge debt cancellation since Biden first aired the idea, saying it’s legally questionable and unfairly cancels student debt at the expense of Americans who didn’t attend college. One of the main challenges has been finding someone who faces personal harm as a result of Biden’s plan, giving them legal standing to sue.

Some attorneys general finally decided they’d better discuss the possibility of Biden’s taking action, now that the applications for loan forgiveness will be given out at the beginning of October.

The person filing suit is Frank Garrison, who argues he will be harmed “due to quirks in the federal loan repayment plans and Indiana law.” Here’s more:

Mr. Garrison is enrolled in the federal Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, which limits his monthly payments to a share of his income and discharges the remaining debt after 10 years of payments. The President’s loan forgiveness will immediately cancel $20,000 in debt. But this won’t reduce his monthly payments since they are already capped.

However, it will require him to pay more than $1,000 in state tax on the canceled debt this year. Indiana doesn’t tax Public Service Loan Forgiveness, so he wouldn’t face a state tax liability several years from now. Thus, he won’t receive an ‘additional benefit from the cancellation—just a one-time additional penalty,’ according to his suit.

He can’t avoid this hit since the Education Department says it will automatically cancel loans for eight million borrowers for which it has income data on file, namely those in income-based repayment plans. Mr. Garrison’s injury is also imminent because the Department said it plans to begin canceling debt for borrowers by early October.

Biden is trying to use the “pandemic national emergency” as an excuse for the loan forgiveness, even though he told us the other day that the pandemic was over. And then there is Biden’s usurping Congress’ power to handle economic decisions.

Nice try, Mr. Biden.

Six states (including Indiana) are going to be subject to the tax penalty unless they change their current laws: Arkansas, California, Minnesota, Mississippi, North Carolina and Wisconsin. And Conservatives are voicing their protests but still have not filed a lawsuit:

Conservatives have called the debt forgiveness plan fiscally irresponsible and unfair to the millions of Americans who never attended college or already paid off their education loans. Republicans have also said the plan is illegal because it wrests spending powers given to Congress, arguing that the 2003 law was never intended to give the executive branch such unilateral, broad authority.

Fortunately, Frank Garrison’s employer, the Pacific Legal Foundation, has stepped up to represent him. They have characterized Biden’s action and the foundation’s response in this way:

Loan cancellation is incredibly controversial—and very unpopular when Americans consider the cost. It will inevitably lead to greater divisions among Americans, as those who paid their loans or did not attend college—typically older and blue-collar Americans—will have good reason to think that we no longer have a government of, by, and for the people, but one that serves those with the loudest voices at any given moment or are most like those in power.

This is why the Framers designed the Constitution as they did. The separation of powers ensures that no department of government can make unilateral decisions, and that laws come from the body that represents the people: Congress. Even when Congress does the wrong thing, the lawmaking process ensures that the people’s voices are heard. Ramming expensive and divisive programs down the throats of Americans through executive fiat is never a good idea.

On behalf of Frank and other borrowers like him, Pacific Legal Foundation filed the nation’s first lawsuit challenging the Education Department’s unacceptable abuse of executive authority to restore the rule of law and to enforce the Constitution’s separation of powers.

*     *     *     *

Aside from Biden’s usual abuse of the powers of the Executive Branch, and his usurpation of Congress’ powers, I am extremely disappointed once again to see the fecklessness of the Republicans at the federal and state levels. They knew this was coming weeks ago, even months ago. Why couldn’t they figure out how to be assertive and to act? Why were they only talking with each other instead of finding some way to find standing like Frank Garrison? Why can’t we have Republicans who stand up for the legislative branch, and more importantly, for the people of this country?

Is there anyone we can count on anymore to take seriously the welfare of the citizenry?

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  1. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    HeavyWater (View Comment):
    Trump was just a lousy candidate, worse than Biden, which is really amazing.  

    What does this have to do at all pray tell with the courts usurping the rights of the legislature to set election policy.  Something which is explicitly set down in the Constitution.   Just because you hate Trump don’t lose sight of the bigger picture.

    • #31
  2. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    These days I see myself as fighting against the MAGA group as much as I am fighting against the Democrats.

    One of my US Senators in Indiana, Mike Braun, voted against aid to Ukraine. I wrote his office a letter telling him that while I voted for him in 2018, his vote against aid to Ukraine indicates that I might have made a mistake.

    Trump and Tucker Carlson have soiled the Republican party to the point to where I am reluctant to support the GOP in the way that I have for the last 38 years.

    Is this your sock puppet account, Gary?

    • #32
  3. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

     

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    So in this specific case, standing is established because the plaintiff lives in a state that will tax the amount of the loan “forgiven” as income.

    So the judge rules the state isn’t allowed to tax the forgiveness (federal supremacy), standing goes away, lawsuit dismissed, government gets on with shoveling billions out the door…

    It’s almost poetic. You can see it coming.

     

     

     

      It’s not so simple, if you read the lawsuit. They are saying that the law has been violated and the actions are also unconstitutional. Biden has usurped the responsibilities of Congress. “Standing” just gets him in the door. 

    You can read the lawsuit here .

    • #33
  4. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

     

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    So in this specific case, standing is established because the plaintiff lives in a state that will tax the amount of the loan “forgiven” as income.

    So the judge rules the state isn’t allowed to tax the forgiveness (federal supremacy), standing goes away, lawsuit dismissed, government gets on with shoveling billions out the door…

    It’s almost poetic. You can see it coming.

     

     

     

    It’s not so simple, if you read the lawsuit. They are saying that the law has been violated and the actions are also unconstitutional. Biden has usurped the responsibilities of Congress. “Standing” just gets him in the door.

    You can read the lawsuit here .

    Right.  

    But if you remove the “harm” of having to pay the state tax, then standing goes away and the suit is dismissed, regardless of its merits.

     

    • #34
  5. MWD B612 "Dawg" Member
    MWD B612 "Dawg"
    @danok1

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):
    I wonder if the concept of “standing” needs to be expanded/changed. (Not a lawyer, so I have no idea if it’s possible or how to do it.)

    I don’t know either, MWD, but I’d love to hear from lawyers on this concern. Then again, when they were bounced for lack of standing, I’m not clear why they couldn’t have changed their suit and demonstrated standing within the time constraints. It would be helpful to know.

    If I recall correctly (and I may not), they didn’t have standing in the pre-election suits because the harm they were alleging (and maybe even the acts they were alleging to be improper) hadn’t happened yet, and might not happen. Though I’m not sure about PA state courts, Courts are generally barred, constitutionally, from issuing advisory opinions to the other branches about how they should do things – i.e. butting in before there’s a genuine case. Thus, the standing rules.

    There are all sorts of good policy reasons for this, but chief among them is that it helps prevent half-hearted, or even false flag litigation. Important to remember in this discussion is how courts work – their rulings must be based on evidence presented (subject to all kinds of rules) at hearings. The court does no independent fact finding. So, without standing rules, you would have a bunch of precedent setting case law that was not really fully and vigorously argued by the losing side.

    In the second suit, then, the problem was the fact that the plaintiffs didn’t challenge the election procedures after the first election that used them (the primary, iirc). They would have had standing (assuming they could show vote totals were different), but presumably they liked the results, so they didn’t bother. Instead, they waited until after the 2nd election (the general), when they apparently didn’t like the results, to bring the case again. That’s where the laches defense comes in for the other side.

    There were some lawsuits filed by Trump’s attorneys where they would make a claim at a press conference, but when it came time to present evidence to the judge, they admitted that the evidence they had didn’t support their case.

    In some cases, Trump’s attorney withdrew their lawsuit. They would talk a good game in front of the cameras, but they couldn’t follow through in court.

    As Trump’s Attorney General mentioned, Republicans outperformed Trump in Pennsylvania. Many voters cast votes for Republicans for the Pennsylvania state legislature but did not vote for Trump.

    Trump was just a lousy candidate, worse than Biden, which is really amazing.

    Not talking about Trump, but GOP candidates for the House and Senate.

    • #35
  6. MWD B612 "Dawg" Member
    MWD B612 "Dawg"
    @danok1

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):
    If I recall correctly (and I may not), they didn’t have standing in the pre-election suits because the harm they were alleging (and maybe even the acts they were alleging to be improper) hadn’t happened yet, and might not happen.

    I get that, but the act itself of the courts changing the election law seems unconstitutional, at least to the layman who reads Article I, Section 4, Clause 1:

    The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof;

    How is a court allowed to change the manner of holding elections? (Of course, I may be misremembering the facts here. Could be that the PA SoS or BOE changed it, but that’s not the legislature either.)

    I don’t recall the specifics, either, but I know some of the challenges involved changes made by administrative agencies in charge of elections. Legislatures, just a practical matter, have to delegate some of the election process, and decision making, to those agencies.

    The arguments tend to be over the point at which an agency oversteps the delegated authority.

    Thanks!

    • #36
  7. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a Scam) (View Comment):

    I see that Sen. Willard “Mitt” Romney is refusing to endorse fellow Utah Republican, Sen. Mike Lee, in his re-election effort. With allies like that, who need enemies?

    No kidding! The man is a curse to the party. I don’t understand him.

    Never let it be said that Mitt Romney has ever violated his principles. He doesn’t have any, which makes it easy.

    • #37
  8. Ole Summers Member
    Ole Summers
    @OleSummers

    Mitt is an over-achiever he is managing to make me think less of him than I already did – breaking new ground!

    • #38
  9. Jim George Member
    Jim George
    @JimGeorge

    Susan Quinn: Do Republicans Ever Fight Back?

    Maybe 3-4 in the House and 2-3 in the Senate. Other than that, the answer is, sadly, a resounding No. 

    • #39
  10. Jim George Member
    Jim George
    @JimGeorge

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    These days I see myself as fighting against the MAGA group as much as I am fighting against the Democrats.

    One of my US Senators in Indiana, Mike Braun, voted against aid to Ukraine. I wrote his office a letter telling him that while I voted for him in 2018, his vote against aid to Ukraine indicates that I might have made a mistake.

    Trump and Tucker Carlson have soiled the Republican party to the point to where I am reluctant to support the GOP in the way that I have for the last 38 years.

    Simple question: why in the world are you still a “Republican”, holding views like this? I am a person with a very unsophisticated mind, but I see comments like this and comments from another “Republican” on Ricochet who is actively helping the far-far-left candidate in his state defeat one of the most solid Republican candidates his state has had in years, and I have to wonder why you stay in a party you seem to –I’ll us as euphemistic a word as I can here — despise everything it stands for and yet you remain in a party which is, according to your own words, “soiled” by two of the most prominent spokesmen for what I consider (as an actual Republican) to be the main principles of the party. I am just, in all good faith, puzzled by this kind of mindset. 

    • #40
  11. Fritz Coolidge
    Fritz
    @Fritz

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

     

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    So in this specific case, standing is established because the plaintiff lives in a state that will tax the amount of the loan “forgiven” as income.

    So the judge rules the state isn’t allowed to tax the forgiveness (federal supremacy), standing goes away, lawsuit dismissed, government gets on with shoveling billions out the door…

    It’s almost poetic. You can see it coming.

     

     

     

    It’s not so simple, if you read the lawsuit. They are saying that the law has been violated and the actions are also unconstitutional. Biden has usurped the responsibilities of Congress. “Standing” just gets him in the door.

    You can read the lawsuit here .

    Right.

    But if you remove the “harm” of having to pay the state tax, then standing goes away and the suit is dismissed, regardless of its merits.

     

    RE the bolded: A judge cannot simply wave a black-robed arm and presto! a state’s tax law vanishes in a puff of smoke.

    • #41
  12. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Fritz (View Comment):
    RE the bolded: A judge cannot simply wave a black-robed arm and presto! a state’s tax law vanishes in a puff of smoke.

    Good point, Fritz. And why would the state give up their revenue because Biden messed up? This is about Biden’s overreach, not the state’s.

    • #42
  13. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Fritz (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

     

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    So in this specific case, standing is established because the plaintiff lives in a state that will tax the amount of the loan “forgiven” as income.

    So the judge rules the state isn’t allowed to tax the forgiveness (federal supremacy), standing goes away, lawsuit dismissed, government gets on with shoveling billions out the door…

    It’s almost poetic. You can see it coming.

     

     

     

    It’s not so simple, if you read the lawsuit. They are saying that the law has been violated and the actions are also unconstitutional. Biden has usurped the responsibilities of Congress. “Standing” just gets him in the door.

    You can read the lawsuit here .

    Right.

    But if you remove the “harm” of having to pay the state tax, then standing goes away and the suit is dismissed, regardless of its merits.

     

    RE the bolded: A judge cannot simply wave a black-robed arm and presto! a state’s tax law vanishes in a puff of smoke.

    Sure they can – Federal supremacy.  Judges strike down laws all the time.  The State law conflicts with a Federal priority – “poof”.  Remember when Arizona passed a law to enforce laws against people crossing the border from Mexico?

    Yes, I know there’s a difference when it gets into state tax law.  When has that stopped judges?  Remember when a District judge in Hawaii(?) put a nationwide injunction on one of Trumps orders?

     

     

    • #43
  14. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Sure they can – Federal supremacy.  Judges strike down laws all the time.  The State law conflicts with a Federal priority – “poof”.  Remember when Arizona passed a law to enforce laws against people crossing the border from Mexico?

    Yes, I know there’s a difference when it gets into state tax law.  When has that stopped judges?  Remember when a District judge in Hawaii(?) put a nationwide injunction on one of Trumps orders?

    I don’t think your analogies work. As I recall, the law Arizona passed was going to take precedence over federal law–a jurisdiction that belonged to the federal govt. And with Hawaii, did that injunction hold up? I think there is a difference between actions that judges take and whether they hold up.

    • #44
  15. Victor Tango Kilo Member
    Victor Tango Kilo
    @VtheK

    Fritz (View Comment):
    A judge cannot simply wave a black-robed arm and presto! a state’s tax law vanishes in a puff of smoke.

    The Hawaiian judge who singlehandedly negated Trump’s immigration enforcement would beg to differ. 

    • #45
  16. Victor Tango Kilo Member
    Victor Tango Kilo
    @VtheK

    Jim George (View Comment):
    Simple question: why in the world are you still a “Republican”, holding views like this? I

    HW strikes me as a neocon/globalist who wants Congress to give Ukraine a blank check to defend its borders, but wants our own borders wide open. 

    • #46
  17. Fritz Coolidge
    Fritz
    @Fritz

    Victor Tango Kilo (View Comment):

    Fritz (View Comment):
    A judge cannot simply wave a black-robed arm and presto! a state’s tax law vanishes in a puff of smoke.

    The Hawaiian judge who singlehandedly negated Trump’s immigration enforcement would beg to differ.

    That was a federal (activist) judge enjoining a federal EO/rule. This is a state court matter dealing with state tax law. Believe me, state courts are not easily persunded to deprive their own state of tax revenue.

    • #47
  18. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Susan Quinn: Do Republicans Ever Fight Back?

    Every once in a while, but it’s not often enough.  Trump showed you have to fight every day on all levels, and most Republicans are either too lazy or lack the testicular fortitude to do it.  Heck, Republican women fight back better than the men . . .

    • #48
  19. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Guess what? Several state attorneys general are suing the Biden administration over the student loan forgiveness:

    In a remarkable reversal that will affect the fortunes of many student loan borrowers, the U.S. Department of Education has quietly changed its guidance around who qualifies for President Biden’s sweeping student debt relief plan.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/09/29/1125923528/biden-student-loans-debt-cancellation-ffel-perkins

     

    The change will affect around 800,000 debtors.

    • #49
  20. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    NPR (View Comment):
    In a remarkable reversal that will affect the fortunes of many student loan borrowers . . .

    Fascinating how they crafted that sentence to engender sympathy in a favored direction.

    • #50
  21. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    NPR (View Comment):
    In a remarkable reversal that will affect the fortunes of many student loan borrowers . . .

    Fascinating how they crafted that sentence to engender sympathy in a favored direction.

    Isn’t it? There are still lots of questions. How many will still qualify? Will the Republicans have standing to sue? There is harm to the states who would lose revenue, but what about everyone else? What about Biden usurping Congress’ powers? So aggravating . . . 

    • #51
  22. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Stad (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: Do Republicans Ever Fight Back?

    Every once in a while, but it’s not often enough. Trump showed you have to fight every day on all levels, and most Republicans are either too lazy or lack the testicular fortitude to do it. Heck, Republican women fight back better than the men . . .

    Remember that old Swahili proverb that says “The daughters of lions are lions too.”

    • #52
  23. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Yes, Republicans will fight back. If their base gets too uppity, they will fight their base.

    • #53
  24. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Yes, Republicans will fight back. If their base gets too uppity, they will fight their base.

    Or just stop listening to them . . .

    • #54
  25. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Susan Quinn:

    Aside from Biden’s usual abuse of the powers of the Executive Branch, and his usurpation of Congress’ powers, I am extremely disappointed once again to see the fecklessness of the Republicans at the federal and state levels. They knew this was coming weeks ago, even months ago. Why couldn’t they figure out how to be assertive and to act? Why were they only talking with each other instead of finding some way to find standing like Frank Garrison? Why can’t we have Republicans who stand up for the legislative branch, and more importantly, for the people of this country?

     

    Same song, different verse. We saw the same with Obamacare. Failure theater.

    • #55
  26. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Fritz (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

     

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    So in this specific case, standing is established because the plaintiff lives in a state that will tax the amount of the loan “forgiven” as income.

    So the judge rules the state isn’t allowed to tax the forgiveness (federal supremacy), standing goes away, lawsuit dismissed, government gets on with shoveling billions out the door…

    It’s almost poetic. You can see it coming.

     

     

     

    It’s not so simple, if you read the lawsuit. They are saying that the law has been violated and the actions are also unconstitutional. Biden has usurped the responsibilities of Congress. “Standing” just gets him in the door.

    You can read the lawsuit here .

    Right.

    But if you remove the “harm” of having to pay the state tax, then standing goes away and the suit is dismissed, regardless of its merits.

     

    RE the bolded: A judge cannot simply wave a black-robed arm and presto! a state’s tax law vanishes in a puff of smoke.

    Sure they can – Federal supremacy. Judges strike down laws all the time. The State law conflicts with a Federal priority – “poof”. Remember when Arizona passed a law to enforce laws against people crossing the border from Mexico?

    Yes, I know there’s a difference when it gets into state tax law. When has that stopped judges? Remember when a District judge in Hawaii(?) put a nationwide injunction on one of Trumps orders?

     

     

    No. The AZ immigration law conflicted with federal law on the same subject and was obviously at risk of violating a standard doctrine of federal supremacy under certain conditions. Injunctions against executive orders rely on a finding that the order does not conform to a relevant law under which that order was issued. None of this gets to federal courts striking down or rewriting state tax law.

    • #56
  27. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Yes, Republicans will fight back. If their base gets too uppity, they will fight their base.

    Exactly what is happening with Mitch and the Gang right now. 

    • #57
  28. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    These days I see myself as fighting against the MAGA group as much as I am fighting against the Democrats.

    One of my US Senators in Indiana, Mike Braun, voted against aid to Ukraine. I wrote his office a letter telling him that while I voted for him in 2018, his vote against aid to Ukraine indicates that I might have made a mistake.

    Trump and Tucker Carlson have soiled the Republican party to the point to where I am reluctant to support the GOP in the way that I have for the last 38 years.

    If you are a single-issue voter (eg, Ukraine uber alles), then you are not a Republican or a member of any party.  That’s fine, but it means your opinion on the parties is biased.    I think it Trump and Tucker have helped shift the GOP from the party of WASPs to a party of hard-working patriots, people I view as under-represented in government.  We do not need a country where the two parties represent the AWFLs and WASPs.

    • #58
  29. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    DonG (CAGW is a Scam) (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    These days I see myself as fighting against the MAGA group as much as I am fighting against the Democrats.

    One of my US Senators in Indiana, Mike Braun, voted against aid to Ukraine. I wrote his office a letter telling him that while I voted for him in 2018, his vote against aid to Ukraine indicates that I might have made a mistake.

    Trump and Tucker Carlson have soiled the Republican party to the point to where I am reluctant to support the GOP in the way that I have for the last 38 years.

    If you are a single-issue voter (eg, Ukraine uber alles), then you are not a Republican or a member of any party. That’s fine, but it means your opinion on the parties is biased. I think it Trump and Tucker have helped shift the GOP from the party of WASPs to a party of hard-working patriots, people I view as under-represented in government. We do not need a country where the two parties represent the AWFLs and WASPs.

    People like Tucker and Trump are the only reason I give a damn about the GOP. 

    • #59
  30. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    Good to see this happening. When Biden announced this forgiveness plan the analysis was disheartening. It was mainly, this is wrong but there doesn’t seem to be a clear way to combat it. This guy has demonstrated harm and people willing to take up his case.

    To answer the post’s question, I rarely see it. DeSantis and a few other governors see to be. Trump tried but had to fight those in the party as well as the Democrats. The few who do are rarely imitated. Strength in numbers, rally together, and all that. I understand the argument that DeSantis should stay as governor, where he probably has a greater effect, and can lead the way for other wobbly governors. The states need to stand together and tell the feds to sod off. Weaken Leviathan from that angle.

    I’ve become increasingly disappointed with Republicans, Bishop Wash. They talk and make “great plans” and do nothing. I would love to see the states take more power; that was the Constitution’s original intention. I wonder how we can seriously make that happen?

    When they retire their principles, voters need to retire them.

    • #60
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