There Will Always Be an England

 

As no one knows what the future holds, that is not said as anything even approaching a prediction, as there are certainly reasonable grounds on which the contrary may be, and have been, and will be, argued. That is simply stated to share our reaction after watching hours of pageantry this morning as the funeral of Queen Elizabeth II unfolded. As was said many times over the last few days, this is something many of us will never see again in our lifetimes, so it is worth at least briefly noting and stating the emotions we felt, and I am sure many felt, at seeing this most popular Head of State, and clearly most loved and admired, laid to rest.

How in the world to summarize all the glorious pomp and circumstance we just witnessed? Here are a few of our personal highlights: the magnificent tiny steps of the pallbearers, carrying a weight which must have been almost unbearable; the trumpets, the bagpipes, the ceremonial pulling by rope of the caisson by the Royal Navy, the dignity of all- from the King through the Royal Family and throughout the entire congregation- the incredibly beautiful Boys’ Choir (whose Moms and Grandmothers must have been glowing with pride), the singing of God Save The King and my very favorite moment, The Two Minutes’ Silence.

Those are my thoughts — I would be most interested in yours.

And those are the reasons, among so many others, that we continued to think: There Will Always Be An England.

God Save The King.

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  1. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    Jim George: There Will Always Be An England.

    That’s what the Druids thought, before they were wiped out by invaders.

    • #1
  2. She Member
    She
    @She

    DonG (CAGW is a Scam) (View Comment):

    Jim George: There Will Always Be An England.

    That’s what the Druids thought, before they were wiped out by invaders.

    Strictly speaking, they were Celts.  I don’t think they thought of themselves as English, as “England” as a kingdom didn’t really come into existence until the tenth century.  The Saxon kings might have thought there’d always be an England until they got wiped out by William the Conqueror, but they should have known better.

     

    • #2
  3. EODmom Coolidge
    EODmom
    @EODmom

    We are just reading again about the War of the Roses and we are struck by how reluctant the Richards and Edwards were to forcibly take Henry VI’s crown. They each want it, badly, and they know he is not serving the Kingdom but they just can’t get past the spectre of a charge for treason against the King anointed by God. 

    It seemed to me that the late Queen’s subjects grieved someone they believed was chosen by God and gifted to them. I thought the Archbishop’s homily speaking to her secure faith and purpose was really quite intimate. It was a profound reminder that beliefs matter. The rituals of grief matter, so God Save the King was imperative. Not the least because it affirmed to Charles that his mother is gone. 

    And Heathrow rearranged schedules so there would be no sound during the Two Minutes. 

    • #3
  4. Sisyphus Member
    Sisyphus
    @Sisyphus

    Shakespeare, Chaucer, Kipling, Dickens, Chesterton, Wodehouse, Waugh,…yes, there will always be an England. 

    • #4
  5. She Member
    She
    @She

    One of the things that most struck me was how physically fit the older royals are. Prince Charles is 73, almost exactly six years younger than Joe Biden.  Princess Anne is 72.  Andrew and Edward are 62 and 58 respectively.  Tim Laurence (Anne’s husband) is 67, and Richard, Duke of Gloucester (the youngest of the Queen’s first cousins) is 78 (only a year younger than Joe Biden). The Earl of Snowdon (Princess Margaret’s son) is 60.

    They all slow-marched behind the gun carriage the slightly more than half-a-mile from Westminster Hall to Westminster Abbey.

    After the (first) funeral service, they walked behind the gun-carriage the almost-two miles to from Westminster Abbey to Wellington Arch.  

    Queen Camilla and Kate, Princess of Wales followed in the first car along with George and Charlotte, and Sophie Wessex and Meghan followed in the second. Princess Anne broke precedent (again) by being the first woman to follow along on foot at a monarch’s funeral, as she did for her father last year.

    Massive, well-behaved, crowds attended both processions.

    The other thing that struck me was the size and the simplicity of the vehicular procession from Wellington Arch to Windsor castle. Once they got the Queen into the hearse at Wellington Arch, and set off for Windsor, the procession consisted of four motorcycle police outriders who went first, the hearse, three SUVs of royals, two police motorcyclists and a single police car bringing up the rear.  I can’t help thinking that–had such a thing been done on this side of the pond, the first cars of the parade of leading security vehicles and sundry Self-important and Necessary People would have driven the 28 miles to Windsor and arrived before the hearse with the Queen in it and the rest of the procession had set off. 

    Once again, massive crowds, sometimes dozens deep politely attended the procession, throwing flowers at the hearse as it went by.  As before, crowd-facing police lined the streets, the only really visible signs of a security presence.  (Although I’m certain there was one, and that there were many layers to it.)

    The spectacular pageantry speaks for itself, but at the heart of all the ceremony is a royal family that walks, and drives, and lives, much closer to its people than do many of those in other countries who surround themselves with, and seem so to enjoy, the trappings of power. (I think this is something that Meghan Markle will never understand.)  

    • #5
  6. EODmom Coolidge
    EODmom
    @EODmom

    She (View Comment)

    The other thing that struck me was the size and the simplicity of the vehicular procession from Wellington Arch to Windsor castle……..

    The spectacular pageantry speaks for itself, but at the heart of all the ceremony is a royal family that walks, and drives, and lives, much closer to its people than do many of those in other countries who surround themselves with, and seem so to enjoy, the trappings of power. (I think this is something that Meghan Markle will never understand.)

    It seemed to me that the Dean of St George’s quite struggled with his final prayer. She was one of his parishioners and of very long standing – probably most of his ministry – and his prayer for her must have been deeply personal. The Anglican Committal service is really beautiful and affecting and quiet. In that chapel I would have wanted to hold my breath. 

    • #6
  7. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Jim George: There Will Always Be An England.

    Why?  The last monarch reigned over the destruction of the British empire.  Why should this one not continue down that the path?

    • #7
  8. 9thDistrictNeighbor Member
    9thDistrictNeighbor
    @9thDistrictNeighbor

    Death is a serious thing.  This was a funeral, not a celebration of life.  The clergy wore black.  The mourners wore black.  The accouterments of earthly power, the crown with its massive jewels, the orb and scepter, were all removed and placed on the altar whence they came.  Remember that thou are dust and to dust you shall return.

    Perhaps the world would do well to remember this and not live in the seemingly everlasting, selfish, personal now.

    • #8
  9. Jim George Member
    Jim George
    @JimGeorge

    She (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a Scam) (View Comment):

    Jim George: There Will Always Be An England.

    That’s what the Druids thought, before they were wiped out by invaders.

    Strictly speaking, they were Celts. I don’t think they thought of themselves as English, as “England” as a kingdom didn’t really come into existence until the tenth century. The Saxon kings might have thought there’d always be an England until they got wiped out by William the Conqueror, but they should have known better.

     

    Thank you for this thoughtful comment- just the kind I had hoped to engender with my post. 

    • #9
  10. Jim George Member
    Jim George
    @JimGeorge

    EODmom (View Comment):

    We are just reading again about the War of the Roses and we are struck by how reluctant the Richards and Edwards were to forcibly take Henry VI’s crown. They each want it, badly, and they know he is not serving the Kingdom but they just can’t get past the spectre of a charge for treason against the King anointed by God.

    It seemed to me that the late Queen’s subjects grieved someone they believed was chosen by God and gifted to them. I thought the Archbishop’s homily speaking to her secure faith and purpose was really quite intimate. It was a profound reminder that beliefs matter. The rituals of grief matter, so God Save the King was imperative. Not the least because it affirmed to Charles that his mother is gone.

    And Heathrow rearranged schedules so there would be no sound during the Two Minutes.

    I learned from your comment and appreciated it. I certainly agree with you about the Archbishop’s homily; it was beautiful. And, I had no idea about Heathrow rearranging their schedules so there would be no sound during the Two Minutes Silence which, as I said in my post, was one of the most remarkable things in the entire nine-hour day of ceremony and pageantry. 

    • #10
  11. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    As I understand it, white Englishmen are a minority today in their own capital city.  There seems to be almost no Christian worship in Britain, but from what I’ve heard, there’s lively Muslim prayer every day in London, including in the financial district.

    If England turns into a country of Muslim Pakistanis, will it still be England?  It will be the same land, and they’ll probably be speaking the same language.

    Here is part of the Coronation Oath that Queen Elizabeth II swore in 1953:

    Archbishop. Will you to the utmost of your power maintain the Laws of God and the true profession of the Gospel? Will you to the utmost of your power maintain in the United Kingdom the Protestant Reformed Religion established by law? Will you maintain and preserve inviolably the settlement of the Church of England, and the doctrine, worship, discipline, and government thereof, as by law established in England? And will you preserve unto the Bishops and Clergy of England, and to the Churches there committed to their charge, all such rights and privileges, as by law do or shall appertain to them or any of them?

    Queen. All this I promise to do.

    Were the Laws of God and the true profession of the Gospel maintained in the United Kingdom?  What about the Church of England, and its doctrines?

    It seems to me that the Queen failed catastrophically in this undertaking.  I don’t want to put too much blame on her, because she has little actual power.

    • #11
  12. Jim George Member
    Jim George
    @JimGeorge

    She (View Comment):

    One of the things that most struck me was how physically fit the older royals are. Prince Charles is 73, almost exactly six years younger than Joe Biden.  Princess Anne is 72.  Andrew and Edward are 62 and 58 respectively.  Tim Laurence (Anne’s husband) is 67, and Richard, Duke of Gloucester (the youngest of the Queen’s first cousins) is 78 (only a year younger than Joe Biden). The Earl of Snowdon (Princess Margaret’s son) is 60.

    They all slow-marched behind the gun carriage the slightly more than half-a-mile from Westminster Hall to Westminster Abbey.

    After the (first) funeral service, they walked behind the gun-carriage the almost-two miles to from Westminster Abbey to Wellington Arch. 

    We continually remarked on this very thing; I especially wondered how the King could possibly bear up under what had to be an almost inhumanly demanding day- physically and otherwise, of course- and yet he never seemed to miss a beat. An astounding thing to see, as you put it so well. 

    She (View Comment):
    Massive, well-behaved, crowds attended both processions.

    Remarkable! Not one incident of any kind, to my knowledge, with a million of her  subjects lined up to pay their respects. Nor any incidents with all the people who stood in line for as long as 16 hours to view her body lying in state. 

    She (View Comment):
    sundry Self-important and Necessary People would have driven the 28 miles to Windsor and arrived before the hearse with the Queen in it and the rest of the procession had set off. 

    We do seem to have more than our fair share of those kinds of people, don’t we? 

    She (View Comment):
    (I think this is something that Meghan Markle will never understand.)  

    In order to maintain the civility which I hope represented my post, and my comments, considering the solemnity of the occasion, I will not even hint as to our opinion of this particular member of the Royal Family. However, I will go so far as to say I do not believe our opinions are outliers. 

    • #12
  13. Jim George Member
    Jim George
    @JimGeorge

    EODmom (View Comment):
    It seemed to me that the Dean of St George’s quite struggled with his final prayer. She was one of his parishioners and of very long standing – probably most of his ministry – and his prayer for her must have been deeply personal. The Anglican Committal service is really beautiful and affecting and quiet. In that chapel I would have wanted to hold my breath. 

    That was also our observation. And, we later watched a BBC program on the funeral and the anchor, in giving her summation, came very close to completely breaking down. 

    • #13
  14. 9thDistrictNeighbor Member
    9thDistrictNeighbor
    @9thDistrictNeighbor

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    …(T)he Coronation Oath

    was established in 1688.

    And the said Oath shall be in like manner Adminstred to every King or Queene who
    shall Succeede to the Imperiall Crowne of this Realme at their respective Coronations
    by one of the Archbishops or Bishops of this Realme of England for the time being to
    be thereunto appointed by such King or Queene respectively and in the Presence of all
    Persons that shall be Attending Assisting or otherwise present at such their respective
    Coronations Any Law Statute or Usage to the contrary notwithstanding.

    • #14
  15. Jim George Member
    Jim George
    @JimGeorge

    9thDistrictNeighbor (View Comment):

    Death is a serious thing. This was a funeral, not a celebration of life. The clergy wore black. The mourners wore black. The accouterments of earthly power, the crown with its massive jewels, the orb and scepter, were all removed and placed on the altar whence they came. Remember that thou are dust and to dust you shall return.

    Perhaps the world would do well to remember this and not live in the seemingly everlasting, selfish, personal now.

    This comment was very much appreciated especially in view of the gravity of the day and the mourning and grief it brought to so many, not just in London but around the world. 

    I will also say this: it might just be me, and it might just be because of the impact of what I saw for those many hours today, but it seems to me that one cannot have a conversation of any kind about anything these days without being showered with snark and condescension. And I won’t even bother to go into the usually required statement that “they” have a right to make any kind of statement “they” wish to make; it is also my right not to like it one [              ] bit and to exercise my right in saying so. 

    • #15
  16. RushBabe49 Thatcher
    RushBabe49
    @RushBabe49

    Jim George (View Comment):

    9thDistrictNeighbor (View Comment):

    Death is a serious thing. This was a funeral, not a celebration of life. The clergy wore black. The mourners wore black. The accouterments of earthly power, the crown with its massive jewels, the orb and scepter, were all removed and placed on the altar whence they came. Remember that thou are dust and to dust you shall return.

    Perhaps the world would do well to remember this and not live in the seemingly everlasting, selfish, personal now.

    This comment was very much appreciated especially in view of the gravity of the day and the mourning and grief it brought to so many, not just in London but around the world.

    I will also say this: it might just be me, and it might just be because of the impact of what I saw for those many hours today, but it seems to me that one cannot have a conversation of any kind about anything these days without being showered with snark and condescension. And I won’t even bother to go into the usually required statement that “they” have a right to make any kind of statement “they” wish to make; it is also my right not to like it one [ ] bit and to exercise my right in saying so.

    And that is why comment #7 is uncalled-for.

    On a lighter note, just imagine Queen Elizabeth II in heaven having unlimited tea with Queen Elizabeth I.  Imagine the conversation those two could have!

    • #16
  17. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Jim George: How in the world to summarize all the glorious pomp and circumstance we just witnessed?

    Easy.  What a waste of money perpetuating a family of degenerates, the late queen being the least offensive in that nation’s history.  Her progeny appear to be holding true to the norm, though.

    A pox on monarchy, and shame on anyone who holds up birthright as a reason to rule.  That these people get to live in luxury for the mere accident that their relatives were the most successful brigands is a mockery of all our freedoms.  The British gave us a lot in the way of  a culture of freedom, yet they still wear their class system poorly, requiring genuflections and other insults to individualism.

    • #17
  18. GlenEisenhardt Coolidge
    GlenEisenhardt
    @GlenEisenhardt

    She presided over the collapse of her empire and an Islamic invasion of the UK. But because she was quiet and smiled for the times she was in public she gets a funeral that is sickeningly long and overdone. I don’t find anything celebratory. Less failure and less pomp and less funeral would have been the way to go. 

    • #18
  19. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Jim George: How in the world to summarize all the glorious pomp and circumstance we just witnessed?

    Easy. What a waste of money perpetuating a family of degenerates, the late queen being the least offensive in that nation’s history. Her progeny appear to be holding true to the norm, though.

    A pox on monarchy, and shame on anyone who holds up birthright as a reason to rule. That these people get to live in luxury for the mere accident that their relatives were the most successful brigands is a mockery of all our freedoms. The British gave us a lot in the way of a culture of freedom, yet they still wear their class system poorly, requiring genuflections and other insults to individualism.

    And just how did they get rid of the hemophilia?  

    • #19
  20. She Member
    She
    @She

    9thDistrictNeighbor (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    …(T)he Coronation Oath

    was established in 1688.

    Yes, that’s right.  It came with William and Mary, and rounded out the series of events which began almost half-a-century earlier with the “English Revolution” (as the Marxists like to call it when they dab their handkerchiefs to their noses and sneer at us for having “failed” in that regard) and the chopping off of Charles I’s head.

    Disappointing as some of Britain’s kings and queens have been both before and since, I wouldn’t have it any other way.  And I completely understand why–when the country started come to its senses in 1661–the parliament of the day found it necessary to dig up the remains of, posthumously execute, and then display the rotted head on a pike on the roof of Westminster Hall (where the recently deceased Queen lay in state for five days), the head of that vicious, dictatorial, narrow-minded, and joyless scold, Oliver Cromwell.  

     

     

    • #20
  21. Gromrus Member
    Gromrus
    @Gromrus

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Jim George: How in the world to summarize all the glorious pomp and circumstance we just witnessed?

    Easy. What a waste of money perpetuating a family of degenerates, the late queen being the least offensive in that nation’s history. Her progeny appear to be holding true to the norm, though.

    A pox on monarchy, and shame on anyone who holds up birthright as a reason to rule. That these people get to live in luxury for the mere accident that their relatives were the most successful brigands is a mockery of all our freedoms. The British gave us a lot in the way of a culture of freedom, yet they still wear their class system poorly, requiring genuflections and other insults to individualism.

    All nations have a head of state and a head of government. The British nation has chosen their head of state to be hereditary rather than elected, with genetic links going back into the mists of time, even before the Norman conquest. ‘Monarchy’ is, in truth, a misnomer as they do not rule. And for all the wealth and power, they live in a gilded cage with their every move scrutinized.

    QEII lived into the duty of the job and was a focus for national pride and affection which was above politics.  Would that we could see in our head of state (also our head of government) something noble and pure on which to fix some pride in our nation  rather than the acrimony most of us feel toward the head of state when our side is out of power.

    • #21
  22. 9thDistrictNeighbor Member
    9thDistrictNeighbor
    @9thDistrictNeighbor

    Skyler (View Comment):
    And just how did they get rid of the hemophilia?  

    The current members of the British royal family descend from Edward VII, who did not inherit the recessive disorder from his mother, Queen Victoria.  None of his descendants carry the gene because he did not, and neither did Queen Mary.  Hemophilia passed through the descendants of three of Victoria’s children, most tragically for the descendants of Princess Alice.  It is thought that Victoria’s status as a carrier was due to a spontaneous genetic mutation. 

    • #22
  23. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    9thDistrictNeighbor (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    And just how did they get rid of the hemophilia?

    The current members of the British royal family descend from Edward VII, who did not inherit the recessive disorder from his mother, Queen Victoria. None of his descendants carry the gene because he did not, and neither did Queen Mary. Hemophilia passed through the descendants of three of Victoria’s children, most tragically for the descendants of Princess Alice. It is thought that Victoria’s status as a carrier was due to a spontaneous genetic mutation.

    Kind of like the girl who got pregnant from the swimming pool?

    • #23
  24. She Member
    She
    @She

    Skyler (View Comment):

    9thDistrictNeighbor (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    And just how did they get rid of the hemophilia?

    The current members of the British royal family descend from Edward VII, who did not inherit the recessive disorder from his mother, Queen Victoria. None of his descendants carry the gene because he did not, and neither did Queen Mary. Hemophilia passed through the descendants of three of Victoria’s children, most tragically for the descendants of Princess Alice. It is thought that Victoria’s status as a carrier was due to a spontaneous genetic mutation.

    Kind of like the girl who got pregnant from the swimming pool?

    I don’t think you understand how hemophilia is transmitted.  Edward VII had no mutant gene to transmit to his descendants.

    Please explain your comment which–absent any reason–is simply snarky and ignorant.

     

    • #24
  25. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    She (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    9thDistrictNeighbor (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    And just how did they get rid of the hemophilia?

    The current members of the British royal family descend from Edward VII, who did not inherit the recessive disorder from his mother, Queen Victoria. None of his descendants carry the gene because he did not, and neither did Queen Mary. Hemophilia passed through the descendants of three of Victoria’s children, most tragically for the descendants of Princess Alice. It is thought that Victoria’s status as a carrier was due to a spontaneous genetic mutation.

    Kind of like the girl who got pregnant from the swimming pool?

    I don’t think you understand how hemophilia is transmitted. Edward VII had no mutant gene to transmit to his descendants.

    Please explain your comment which–absent any reason–is simply snarky and ignorant.

     

    Because it assumes that they know who her father was, of course.  Degenerate, pampered royalty have rarely behaved in that regard.

    • #25
  26. She Member
    She
    @She

    Skyler (View Comment):

    She (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    9thDistrictNeighbor (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    And just how did they get rid of the hemophilia?

    The current members of the British royal family descend from Edward VII, who did not inherit the recessive disorder from his mother, Queen Victoria. None of his descendants carry the gene because he did not, and neither did Queen Mary. Hemophilia passed through the descendants of three of Victoria’s children, most tragically for the descendants of Princess Alice. It is thought that Victoria’s status as a carrier was due to a spontaneous genetic mutation.

    Kind of like the girl who got pregnant from the swimming pool?

    I don’t think you understand how hemophilia is transmitted. Edward VII had no mutant gene to transmit to his descendants.

    Please explain your comment which–absent any reason–is simply snarky and ignorant.

     

    Because it assumes that they know who her father was, of course. Degenerate, pampered royalty have rarely behaved in that regard.

    Please show your work.

    • #26
  27. She Member
    She
    @She

    The Washington Cathedral, in conjunction with the British Embassy, is hosting a service of remembrance.  It’s streaming here:

     

    • #27
  28. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    She (View Comment):
    The Washington Cathedral, in conjunction with the British Embassy, is hosting a service of remembrance.

    That is really lovely. 

    • #28
  29. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    And this is why we cannot have nice things here.

     

    • #29
  30. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    MarciN (View Comment):

    She (View Comment):
    The Washington Cathedral, in conjunction with the British Embassy, is hosting a service of remembrance.

    That is really lovely.

    I think the founders would have had a cow.

    • #30
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