More Fuel for the Self-Driving Car Fire

 

Just came across this article this morning. I’ll highlight one paragraph and add emphasis:

The linked report suggests that the artificial intelligence may never be “intelligent” enough to do what human beings are generally capable of doing. (Well, not all of us, of course. A couple of days driving in Florida will tell you that.) That may be true in some ways, but more than raw “intelligence,” the AI systems do not have human intuition. They aren’t as intuitive as humans in terms of trying to guess what the rest of the unpredictable humans will do at any given moment. In some of those cases, it’s not a question of the car not realizing it needs to do something, but rather making a correct guess about what specific action is required.

I’ve made this argument before, that humans are better at winging it than AI — so far.

Admiral Rickover was pretty much against using computers to run the engine room, with a couple of exceptions.  Any task that was deemed too monotonous was one, the other being any task that could be performed quicker by a computer.  Even so, these weren’t really computers in the AI sense, but rather electronic sensors with programming to handle the task at hand.  I’m sure modern submarine engine rooms have more computerization nowadays, but I’ll bet the crew can easily take over if the machines fail . . .

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  1. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    kedavis (View Comment):

    I’m sometimes reminded of this scene:

     

     

    • #61
  2. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    Mad Gerald (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Phil Turmel (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I heard a news report that truck drivers are in demand and a real shortage is expected. Made me wonder if we could or should develop a parallel interstate highway system with traffic restricted to self-driving trucks. Make them hybrid. Place automated charging stations at appropriate intervals. Two problems tackled at once: 1) the distribution part of the supply chain, 2) extended test cases for self-driving vehicles.

    We have something very close to this already, down to the separate lanes. It’s called the railroad. One “driver” for dozens if not hundreds of “trucks”.

    That’s the driver to replace, if any. The AI doesn’t even have to steer.

    It is worth noting that, despite the driver having a brake, the trains usually hit and kill/destroy whatever is in front of them anyway.

    Honestly, the human in the cab is mostly there to demonstrate that someone ‘cares’. And to keep the therapy industry going of course.

    Modern locomotives have a “dead man switch”. Unless the driver is making constant inputs the train will stop.

    I was once told by a former railway worker that the human engineer is there to be a witness in the event of a collision. They are legally required to watch as they turn the poor people in the station wagon into salsa.

    I have never fact-checked the claim.

    • #62
  3. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I will never have a car without the Subaru Eyesight system or the equivalent. It’s less fatiguing and less stress. I prefer having the warning sounds. The adaptive cruise control is wonderful. I’m rarely dissatisfied with how it functions.

    I’d like to try adaptive cruise control. It sounds wonderful. Months ago it came up on a thread here and someone commented that he’d driven around Chicago, during rush hour, and never had to touch the pedals.

    You can use it below highway speeds on streets sometimes, too. 

    • #63
  4. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I will never have a car without the Subaru Eyesight system or the equivalent. It’s less fatiguing and less stress. I prefer having the warning sounds. The adaptive cruise control is wonderful. I’m rarely dissatisfied with how it functions.

    I’d like to try adaptive cruise control. It sounds wonderful. Months ago it came up on a thread here and someone commented that he’d driven around Chicago, during rush hour, and never had to touch the pedals.

    The only problem is if you switch between cars a lot, and one car has it and the other doesn’t, you have to constantly remind yourself that you need to hit the brakes when driving the car without it.

    • #64
  5. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    I used to be more bullish on self-driving cars, as I was sympathetic to the argument that they don’t have to be perfect but rather they just have to be better than humans, and humans are really bad at driving.

    However, one factor that has made me less bullish is the fact that self-driving cars can be pretty susceptible to intentional attacks.

    For example, if some prankster stands at the side of the road holding a stop sign, human drivers can recognize that it’s a prank and ignore the guy, but self-driving cars will stop.

    Given the large number of highly-innovative pranksters in society, this problem becomes very difficult to solve.

    And in fact it’s worse more interesting even than that. It’s possible (or it was as recently as a few years ago, and probably still is) to create signs that are effectively unintelligible to humans, but that contain the visual elements on which automated driving systems cue. This allows all sorts of mischief, as deceptive driving and navigation cues can be embedded in apparent graffiti or what appears to be mere advertising.

     

    • #65
  6. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    I used to be more bullish on self-driving cars, as I was sympathetic to the argument that they don’t have to be perfect but rather they just have to be better than humans, and humans are really bad at driving.

    However, one factor that has made me less bullish is the fact that self-driving cars can be pretty susceptible to intentional attacks.

    For example, if some prankster stands at the side of the road holding a stop sign, human drivers can recognize that it’s a prank and ignore the guy, but self-driving cars will stop.

    Given the large number of highly-innovative pranksters in society, this problem becomes very difficult to solve.

    And in fact it’s worse more interesting even than that. It’s possible (or it was as recently as a few years ago, and probably still is) to create signs that are effectively unintelligible to humans, but that contain the visual elements on which automated driving systems cue. This allows all sorts of mischief, as deceptive driving and navigation cues can be embedded in apparent graffiti or what appears to be mere advertising.

     

    “Sounds like fun!” – Captain Kirk

    • #66
  7. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I heard a news report that truck drivers are in demand and a real shortage is expected. Made me wonder if we could or should develop a parallel interstate highway system with traffic restricted to self-driving trucks. Make them hybrid. Place automated charging stations at appropriate intervals. Two problems tackled at once: 1) the distribution part of the supply chain, 2) extended test cases for self-driving vehicles.

    But we already have railroad transportation…

    It was just a thought. Forget it if you want.

    But if we already have railroads, why do we still have trucks? They must fulfill some need.

    Tracks don’t go everywhere.  Trucks do . . .

    • #67
  8. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I will never have a car without the Subaru Eyesight system or the equivalent. It’s less fatiguing and less stress. I prefer having the warning sounds. The adaptive cruise control is wonderful. I’m rarely dissatisfied with how it functions.

    I like the radar-assisted cruise control.  However, sometimes it slows my car down when the car in front of me goes off an exit ramp or a turn lane . . .

    • #68
  9. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I will never have a car without the Subaru Eyesight system or the equivalent. It’s less fatiguing and less stress. I prefer having the warning sounds. The adaptive cruise control is wonderful. I’m rarely dissatisfied with how it functions.

    I’d like to try adaptive cruise control. It sounds wonderful. Months ago it came up on a thread here and someone commented that he’d driven around Chicago, during rush hour, and never had to touch the pedals.

    The only problem is if you switch between cars a lot, and one car has it and the other doesn’t, you have to constantly remind yourself that you need to hit the brakes when driving the car without it.

    That is so true . . .

    • #69
  10. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Stad (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I will never have a car without the Subaru Eyesight system or the equivalent. It’s less fatiguing and less stress. I prefer having the warning sounds. The adaptive cruise control is wonderful. I’m rarely dissatisfied with how it functions.

    I like the radar-assisted cruise control. However, sometimes it slows my car down when the car in front of me goes off an exit ramp or a turn lane . . .

    Radar works best for velocity. Cameras detect objects and people better and they can widen the field of effectiveness. Lasers are similar to cameras in effect.

    Subaru has a dual camera system without the other two modalities. It works really well except it can be jerky in some adaptive cruise control situations. Apparently the new ones don’t do that now. The customer satisfaction is very high. 

    • #70
  11. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Stad (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I will never have a car without the Subaru Eyesight system or the equivalent. It’s less fatiguing and less stress. I prefer having the warning sounds. The adaptive cruise control is wonderful. I’m rarely dissatisfied with how it functions.

    I’d like to try adaptive cruise control. It sounds wonderful. Months ago it came up on a thread here and someone commented that he’d driven around Chicago, during rush hour, and never had to touch the pedals.

    The only problem is if you switch between cars a lot, and one car has it and the other doesn’t, you have to constantly remind yourself that you need to hit the brakes when driving the car without it.

    That is so true . . .

    There’s another potential problem with this kind of driver assistance (which, by the way, I still enjoy; I use cruise control almost all the time, even though mine is not adaptive in any way). It lulls the driver.

    That’s probably my biggest problem with self-driving and semi-self-driving technology: they encourage the mind to wander.

    We all know that we’re not supposed to be holding phones up to our ear while driving. In many states that’s illegal — here in New York, it’s a capital offense: you can be pulled over and shot by the side of the road without trial if you do it twice.

    Anyway, there are studies that suggest that even talking on a hands-free phone causes about the same level of distraction as holding a phone up to your head. I don’t think that’s surprising: we focus on the conversation when we’re on the phone, and that must necessarily distract from driving. (Shoot, back when I listened to a radio while driving, I’d have to turn the radio off when navigating an unfamiliar area, just to avoid getting lost.)

    It seems likely to me that, the less attention you think you have to pay to the environment, the less attention you will pay to the environment. Sometimes that might be a good trade, but I don’t know that we’re there yet — and certainly not for poorer drivers who are already struggling to pay attention.

    (Second thought, strike that last bit: it may be poorer drivers who actually do benefit from any technology that will make up for their lack of attention.)

    • #71
  12. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Stad (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I heard a news report that truck drivers are in demand and a real shortage is expected. Made me wonder if we could or should develop a parallel interstate highway system with traffic restricted to self-driving trucks. Make them hybrid. Place automated charging stations at appropriate intervals. Two problems tackled at once: 1) the distribution part of the supply chain, 2) extended test cases for self-driving vehicles.

    But we already have railroad transportation…

    It was just a thought. Forget it if you want.

    But if we already have railroads, why do we still have trucks? They must fulfill some need.

    Tracks don’t go everywhere. Trucks do . . .

    It’s the “last mile” thing, like I said before.  But that’s not long-haul.  And there could be even less of the long-haul trucking than there is now, if regulation didn’t block additional rail construction, maybe just by making it unaffordable.

    • #72
  13. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    I used to be more bullish on self-driving cars, as I was sympathetic to the argument that they don’t have to be perfect but rather they just have to be better than humans, and humans are really bad at driving.

    However, one factor that has made me less bullish is the fact that self-driving cars can be pretty susceptible to intentional attacks.

    For example, if some prankster stands at the side of the road holding a stop sign, human drivers can recognize that it’s a prank and ignore the guy, but self-driving cars will stop.

    Given the large number of highly-innovative pranksters in society, this problem becomes very difficult to solve.

    Antifa

    • #73
  14. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Stad (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I will never have a car without the Subaru Eyesight system or the equivalent. It’s less fatiguing and less stress. I prefer having the warning sounds. The adaptive cruise control is wonderful. I’m rarely dissatisfied with how it functions.

    I like the radar-assisted cruise control. However, sometimes it slows my car down when the car in front of me goes off an exit ramp or a turn lane . . .

    One of our cars has a “collision is imminent” warning that often goes berserk when the car in front of me is turning into a driveway. I can tell the car will be well out of the way by the time I get to the driveway,  but the computer just sees that right now there’s something in my lane and assumes I will hit it if I don’t brake quickly. 

    • #74
  15. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I will never have a car without the Subaru Eyesight system or the equivalent. It’s less fatiguing and less stress. I prefer having the warning sounds. The adaptive cruise control is wonderful. I’m rarely dissatisfied with how it functions.

    I like the radar-assisted cruise control. However, sometimes it slows my car down when the car in front of me goes off an exit ramp or a turn lane . . .

    One of our cars has a “collision is imminent” warning that often goes berserk when the car in front of me is turning into a driveway. I can tell the car will be well out of the way by the time I get to the driveway, but the computer just sees that right now there’s something in my lane and assumes I will hit it if I don’t brake quickly.

    It happens with my 2019 Subaru, but it’s not common. I find all of the warning beeps helpful. The rate outright and the rate versus what are effectively false signals isn’t that bad.

    I have a feeling that the pure camera system trades some jerky performance in adaptive cruise control for a little bit better false-ing rate. The new ones are supposed to be better about this.

    If you’re thinking about Subaru, your first filter is, if you don’t get a turbo, it’s usually going to have lousy torque.  Once you get past that, it’s definitely worth a look. *Along those lines, I would never get one without the button that adjusts the gearing of the CVT.

    *with turbos, it might not matter. I don’t know.

    Also, if you don’t like the handling, they handle really well under emergency conditions. There are all kinds of videos showing this.

    • #75
  16. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    I don’t know how we’d characterize the difference between AI and SI.

    AI is artificial. SI will be real intelligence. I think that wraps up the difference.

    I don’t understand the distinction you’re making. Can you expand on that? What would be a capability or attribute of synthetic intelligence that artificial intelligence would not possess, or vice versa?

    I’ll get you started. Intelligence is the facility of prediction. General intelligence is the ability to make predictions in any environment.

    I never know whether to say it’s a faculty or facility. I’d appreciate advice.

    • #76
  17. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Matt Bartle (View Comment):

    It’ll work reliably when all the cars are computer-driven. People are too unpredictable.

    I trained my kids to stop if they see a ball enter the road because a Child is likely to follow. AI going to do that?

    OK, maybe that is added to the program. Blind drives?

    People can do better

    I guarantee you once all cars are computer driven, they will be put under control of a government master computer . . .

    Open the pod bay door, HAL.

    We’re going to wish it was a SI. HAL won’t be heuristic or algorithmic, more like some homo at law in a DC office building.

    • #77
  18. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    I don’t know how we’d characterize the difference between AI and SI.

    AI is artificial. SI will be real intelligence. I think that wraps up the difference.

    I don’t understand the distinction you’re making. Can you expand on that? What would be a capability or attribute of synthetic intelligence that artificial intelligence would not possess, or vice versa?

    I’ll get you started. Intelligence is the facility of prediction. General intelligence is the ability to make predictions in any environment.

    I never know whether to say it’s a faculty or facility. I’d appreciate advice.

    Facility, faculty, ability — I get your meaning.

    Okay. So, again, what do you consider to be something that distinguishes Artificial Intelligence from Synthetic Intelligence?

    And if you’re just using the two different terms in order to communicate a degree of intelligence, that’s fine. I’d understand that. But my impression is that you have something more fundamental in mind, that you see the two kinds of intelligence as differing in quality in some important way.

    • #78
  19. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I heard a news report that truck drivers are in demand and a real shortage is expected. Made me wonder if we could or should develop a parallel interstate highway system with traffic restricted to self-driving trucks. Make them hybrid. Place automated charging stations at appropriate intervals. Two problems tackled at once: 1) the distribution part of the supply chain, 2) extended test cases for self-driving vehicles.

    But we already have railroad transportation…

    It was just a thought. Forget it if you want.

    But if we already have railroads, why do we still have trucks? They must fulfill some need.

    What would such a road network cost?  A whole new interstate highway system?  For what?  The efficiency gain of driverless trucks?

    • #79
  20. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I heard a news report that truck drivers are in demand and a real shortage is expected. Made me wonder if we could or should develop a parallel interstate highway system with traffic restricted to self-driving trucks. Make them hybrid. Place automated charging stations at appropriate intervals. Two problems tackled at once: 1) the distribution part of the supply chain, 2) extended test cases for self-driving vehicles.

    But we already have railroad transportation…

    It was just a thought. Forget it if you want.

    But if we already have railroads, why do we still have trucks? They must fulfill some need.

    What would such a road network cost? A whole new interstate highway system? For what? The efficiency gain of driverless trucks?

    I think it would be a lot easier, faster, and less expensive to add more railroad capacity especially in freeway medians that already have the space and little or no hassle with ownership etc.

    • #80
  21. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I heard a news report that truck drivers are in demand and a real shortage is expected. Made me wonder if we could or should develop a parallel interstate highway system with traffic restricted to self-driving trucks. Make them hybrid. Place automated charging stations at appropriate intervals. Two problems tackled at once: 1) the distribution part of the supply chain, 2) extended test cases for self-driving vehicles.

    But we already have railroad transportation…

    It was just a thought. Forget it if you want.

    But if we already have railroads, why do we still have trucks? They must fulfill some need.

    What would such a road network cost? A whole new interstate highway system? For what? The efficiency gain of driverless trucks?

    If the expected shortage of drivers materializes and if there is no option to use driverless trucks on existing highways, what are the options? Railroads or a stripped-down highway system that is used exclusively by efficient hybrid driverless trucks. I don’t see any other options, though this is not my area of expertise. 

    • #81
  22. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Django (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I heard a news report that truck drivers are in demand and a real shortage is expected. Made me wonder if we could or should develop a parallel interstate highway system with traffic restricted to self-driving trucks. Make them hybrid. Place automated charging stations at appropriate intervals. Two problems tackled at once: 1) the distribution part of the supply chain, 2) extended test cases for self-driving vehicles.

    But we already have railroad transportation…

    It was just a thought. Forget it if you want.

    But if we already have railroads, why do we still have trucks? They must fulfill some need.

    What would such a road network cost? A whole new interstate highway system? For what? The efficiency gain of driverless trucks?

    If the expected shortage of drivers materializes and if there is no option to use driverless trucks on existing highways, what are the options? Railroads or a stripped-down highway system that is used exclusively by efficient hybrid driverless trucks. I don’t see any other options, though this is not my area of expertise.

    The other option maybe preferred by TPTB might be to use the existing highways for driverless trucks, once they get all of us plebes off it and safely locked into our homes tiny government apartments.

    • #82
  23. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I heard a news report that truck drivers are in demand and a real shortage is expected. Made me wonder if we could or should develop a parallel interstate highway system with traffic restricted to self-driving trucks. Make them hybrid. Place automated charging stations at appropriate intervals. Two problems tackled at once: 1) the distribution part of the supply chain, 2) extended test cases for self-driving vehicles.

    But we already have railroad transportation…

    It was just a thought. Forget it if you want.

    But if we already have railroads, why do we still have trucks? They must fulfill some need.

    What would such a road network cost? A whole new interstate highway system? For what? The efficiency gain of driverless trucks?

    If the expected shortage of drivers materializes and if there is no option to use driverless trucks on existing highways, what are the options? Railroads or a stripped-down highway system that is used exclusively by efficient hybrid driverless trucks. I don’t see any other options, though this is not my area of expertise.

    The other option maybe preferred by TPTB might be to use the existing highways for driverless trucks, once they get all of us plebes off it and safely locked into our homes tiny government apartments.

    I was gonna say, “Don’t give the bastards any ideas”, but I suspect they’ve already thought of it. 

    • #83
  24. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I heard a news report that truck drivers are in demand and a real shortage is expected. Made me wonder if we could or should develop a parallel interstate highway system with traffic restricted to self-driving trucks. Make them hybrid. Place automated charging stations at appropriate intervals. Two problems tackled at once: 1) the distribution part of the supply chain, 2) extended test cases for self-driving vehicles.

    But we already have railroad transportation…

    It was just a thought. Forget it if you want.

    But if we already have railroads, why do we still have trucks? They must fulfill some need.

    What would such a road network cost? A whole new interstate highway system? For what? The efficiency gain of driverless trucks?

    I’ve long had a (totally unworkable) theory that all interstates should be built with three sets of lanes instead of two, so that they can  close one set and do roadwork/maintenance and/or  deal with collisions and disabled vehicles without interfering with traffic flow.

    • #84
  25. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I heard a news report that truck drivers are in demand and a real shortage is expected. Made me wonder if we could or should develop a parallel interstate highway system with traffic restricted to self-driving trucks. Make them hybrid. Place automated charging stations at appropriate intervals. Two problems tackled at once: 1) the distribution part of the supply chain, 2) extended test cases for self-driving vehicles.

    But we already have railroad transportation…

    It was just a thought. Forget it if you want.

    But if we already have railroads, why do we still have trucks? They must fulfill some need.

    What would such a road network cost? A whole new interstate highway system? For what? The efficiency gain of driverless trucks?

    I think it would be a lot easier, faster, and less expensive to add more railroad capacity especially in freeway medians that already have the space and little or no hassle with ownership etc.

    California’s high speed rail.  

    • #85
  26. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I heard a news report that truck drivers are in demand and a real shortage is expected. Made me wonder if we could or should develop a parallel interstate highway system with traffic restricted to self-driving trucks. Make them hybrid. Place automated charging stations at appropriate intervals. Two problems tackled at once: 1) the distribution part of the supply chain, 2) extended test cases for self-driving vehicles.

    But we already have railroad transportation…

    It was just a thought. Forget it if you want.

    But if we already have railroads, why do we still have trucks? They must fulfill some need.

    What would such a road network cost? A whole new interstate highway system? For what? The efficiency gain of driverless trucks?

    I think it would be a lot easier, faster, and less expensive to add more railroad capacity especially in freeway medians that already have the space and little or no hassle with ownership etc.

    California’s high speed rail.

    One problem there – one among several – is that freight goes to different places than people.

    • #86
  27. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I heard a news report that truck drivers are in demand and a real shortage is expected. Made me wonder if we could or should develop a parallel interstate highway system with traffic restricted to self-driving trucks. Make them hybrid. Place automated charging stations at appropriate intervals. Two problems tackled at once: 1) the distribution part of the supply chain, 2) extended test cases for self-driving vehicles.

    But we already have railroad transportation…

    It was just a thought. Forget it if you want.

    But if we already have railroads, why do we still have trucks? They must fulfill some need.

    What would such a road network cost? A whole new interstate highway system? For what? The efficiency gain of driverless trucks?

    I think it would be a lot easier, faster, and less expensive to add more railroad capacity especially in freeway medians that already have the space and little or no hassle with ownership etc.

    My youngest loves trains and we recently utilized the Sun rail system… in a backward way, but still, we took a train ride. It was quite nice and I enjoyed it. My only irritation is that it still requires the suburbs to drive in. Which may be why it is completely under utilized. It was cheap and pleasant, but empty.

    The traffic issue is suburban commutes, so I can’t figure out why there aren’t suburban connections at all.

    • #87
  28. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Stina (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I heard a news report that truck drivers are in demand and a real shortage is expected. Made me wonder if we could or should develop a parallel interstate highway system with traffic restricted to self-driving trucks. Make them hybrid. Place automated charging stations at appropriate intervals. Two problems tackled at once: 1) the distribution part of the supply chain, 2) extended test cases for self-driving vehicles.

    But we already have railroad transportation…

    It was just a thought. Forget it if you want.

    But if we already have railroads, why do we still have trucks? They must fulfill some need.

    What would such a road network cost? A whole new interstate highway system? For what? The efficiency gain of driverless trucks?

    I think it would be a lot easier, faster, and less expensive to add more railroad capacity especially in freeway medians that already have the space and little or no hassle with ownership etc.

    My youngest loves trains and we recently utilized the Sun rail system… in a backward way, but still, we took a train ride. It was quite nice and I enjoyed it. My only irritation is that it still requires the suburbs to drive in. Which may be why it is completely under utilized. It was cheap and pleasant, but empty.

    The traffic issue is suburban commutes, so I can’t figure out why there aren’t suburban connections at all.

    “City planners” etc seem to have less-than-practical motivations in many cases.  They get “brownie points” for setting up rail systems even if – due to having to work out property purchases etc – they might end up not going anywhere very useful.  I think that’s actually something in favor of using the freeway medians etc for freight rail, because long-haul freight origins and destinations are more concentrated to start with – between warehouses, etc – and that can help free up especially short-distance road traffic for people who need it more.

    • #88
  29. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I heard a news report that truck drivers are in demand and a real shortage is expected. Made me wonder if we could or should develop a parallel interstate highway system with traffic restricted to self-driving trucks. Make them hybrid. Place automated charging stations at appropriate intervals. Two problems tackled at once: 1) the distribution part of the supply chain, 2) extended test cases for self-driving vehicles.

    But we already have railroad transportation…

    It was just a thought. Forget it if you want.

    But if we already have railroads, why do we still have trucks? They must fulfill some need.

    What would such a road network cost? A whole new interstate highway system? For what? The efficiency gain of driverless trucks?

    We’ve got them already. They’re called “railroads.”

    Autonomous trains would be a lot simpler than autonomous automobiles.

    • #89
  30. CuriousKevmo Inactive
    CuriousKevmo
    @CuriousKevmo

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I will never have a car without the Subaru Eyesight system or the equivalent. It’s less fatiguing and less stress. I prefer having the warning sounds. The adaptive cruise control is wonderful. I’m rarely dissatisfied with how it functions.

    I’d like to try adaptive cruise control. It sounds wonderful. Months ago it came up on a thread here and someone commented that he’d driven around Chicago, during rush hour, and never had to touch the pedals.

    Oh you must, it is indeed wonderful.  My truck is only good down to about 25 mph but my Subbie handles stop and go very well.  I rarely touch a pedal in my commute.

     

    • #90
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