But, I Can Still Be a Victim … Right?

 

Former UN Ambassador Andrew Young was on the CBS Mornings show to promote a children’s book he wrote with his daughter and I noticed a real generation gap between Young and the younger folks interviewing him. Young march in Birmingham with Rev. Martin Luther King at a time when Black owned homes and churches were getting bombed by the Klan. He has experienced racism in a way that the shows hosts have not.

When Young states that the United States of America is better than anyplace else in the world, the one host interjects, “still hopeful?”   Young replies, “No, not hopeful. It’s real.”

For Democrats today (and I won’t pretend some working for CBS news is anything but a Democrat), the idea that America is great is something they don’t want to admit to. It can be great because of what it can become, but not because of what it is and what it has done. A younger Young had to fight against a racist system because he, and others like him, did not want to be victims. Somehow today, victimhood is the ultimate goal of the Left. Because society has changed, victimhood has changed from having your church blown up to Chuck E Cheese not giving you a high five.

Young stated that the race problems are not nearly as bad as when he grew up. No one can honestly debate that fact. But fearing that his victim card might be diminished, the other host (former NFL receiver Nate Burleson) sounded frustrated when he said, “but they[race problems] still do exist.” Yes racism does exist, and as Young points out “They always will exist.” Then the preacher starts to come out of Young as he explains to Burleson why we will always have problems. His reason is, “Because you are a sinner.”

I was impressed with the wisdom Ambassador Young showed in this short interview. I was also frustrated, but not surprise, at how desperate the Left today is to deny the civil rights victories that came because the want to be called victims too.

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  1. Fritz Coolidge
    Fritz
    @Fritz

    Because society has changed, victimhood has changed from having your church blown up to Chuck E Cheese not giving you a high five.

    A great statement —  the  money quote!

    • #1
  2. Vance Richards Member
    Vance Richards
    @VanceRichards

    Fritz (View Comment):

    Because society has changed, victimhood has changed from having your church blown up to Chuck E Cheese not giving you a high five.

    A great statement — the money quote!

    The bar has certainly been lowered 

    • #2
  3. Columbo Member
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Vance Richards (View Comment):

    Fritz (View Comment):

    Because society has changed, victimhood has changed from having your church blown up to Chuck E Cheese not giving you a high five.

    A great statement — the money quote!

    The bar has certainly been lowered

    The Left can be offended by the wrong pronoun nowadays.

    • #3
  4. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Vance Richards: Young march in Birmingham with Rev. Martin Luther King at a time when Black owned homes and churches were getting bombed by the Klan

    I’m just curious.  Do you know how many such bombings occurred?

    I’ve heard and read this type of thing before.  It’s bad, of course, but I don’t know how widespread it was.  Are we talking about ten crimes?  Ten thousand?

    • #4
  5. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Vance Richards: Young march in Birmingham with Rev. Martin Luther King at a time when Black owned homes and churches were getting bombed by the Klan

    I’m just curious. Do you know how many such bombings occurred?

    I’ve heard and read this type of thing before. It’s bad, of course, but I don’t know how widespread it was. Are we talking about ten crimes? Ten thousand?

    Jerry, I lived just a few blocks from the Reverend Martin Luther King during the 1950’s. I experienced the white side of the official discrimination that blacks faced. Schools, public transportation, public accommodations, hotels and restaurants and I’m certain it carried into many things that may not have been specifically covered. The crimes were many, maybe not thousands but many more than ten and, of course, we are talking crimes in many states of the South. I think most of the organized criminal activity in the South was led by the  remnants of the Klan. I don’t think there was participation by very many people by that time. There were some political leaders who really didn’t help matters much, people like Orville Faubus, George Wallace, and Lester Maddox.  Matters then shifted to the large Northern cities where de facto segregation was being challenged by shifts in real estate transactions causing much ill-will. Northern cities had large ethnic communities that were being broken up and displeasure with that ran high. I’m sure you have knowledge of some of this.

    It is rather amazing that the young people today think they have a formidable task to push against the rather minor obstacles that still need to be overcome when compared to the achievements of those of Reverend King’s generation. The remaining problems today as I see it could be addressed easily with the correct policies.

    • #5
  6. Vance Richards Member
    Vance Richards
    @VanceRichards

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Vance Richards: Young march in Birmingham with Rev. Martin Luther King at a time when Black owned homes and churches were getting bombed by the Klan

    I’m just curious. Do you know how many such bombings occurred?

    I’ve heard and read this type of thing before. It’s bad, of course, but I don’t know how widespread it was. Are we talking about ten crimes? Ten thousand?

    According to Wikipedia (so take that for what it’s worth), about 50 explosions between 1947 and 1965. The church bombing in 63’ that killed four girls was the only one I ever heard about but that was all before my time.

    • #6
  7. David C. Broussard Coolidge
    David C. Broussard
    @Dbroussa

    The US is one of the least racist countries in the world and yet we have racism shoved at us all the time. Why? Well, being able to accuse someone of being a racist gives the accuser power. Objectively one can look at the 60s as Ambassador Young does and clearly see that the overt racism of that time is gone. No longer does the govt require discrimination against Blacks as one example. Frankly the level of internalized racism is way down as well. When I was a kid one of my neighborhood friends took a three foot stave and carved designs into it and then stained it. He intended to keep it in his truck when he got old enough to drive. We were preteens or perhaps younger. He called it his “[REDACTED] ‘nocker”. Frankly the concept flummoxed me then and I wonder how many on this site have ever heard of such a thing from the late 70s in the deep South. Today, I have a hard time believing such attitudes would exist amongst kids.

    My Mom grew up in San Antonio in the 30s and 40s and the racism and discrimination against Hispanics was overt. In her High School they had many social groups for the kids to join. Looking at her yearbook you would see one group with Anglo and German names and pale faces and then, on the other page a similar group but only Hispanics and dark faces. My Mom was in her 80s when we found a copy online and looked at it. As I asked her to explain she would choke up and cry about that exclusion from 60+ years earlier. When I look at my kids yearbooks no such segregation exists. That is progress, and it should be celebrated.

    Will we ever purge racism from our world? Nox it just takes on other forms. Today it’s morphing into hatred based on politics or assumption of politics. To be seen as a straight white male, for some is to be seen as evil and an oppressor. Is that fair? Of course not, and yet the left continues to perpetrate and promote such beliefs. The entire current concept of anti-racism is based on an idea that Whites are inherently racist and thus evil and can never purge their sin. How is that different from some Klansman who assumes that all Blacks are less intelligent, less hard working less capable than he is, just because of the color of their skin.

    • #7
  8. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    I read Andrew Young’s book decades ago when he was Mayor of Atlanta. He said that back in the early days, even though there was racism, the black communities had a strong commitment to family. Mother – father – children. They went to church, they had to do their homework and help with chores. There was discipline and the love of extended family.  This is how many struggles including people who survived communism and rose above.  He said things changed when they started building major roads through the black neighborhoods and bought up property or confiscated it, forcing communities to disperse.  It was a very good book.

    • #8
  9. Blondie Thatcher
    Blondie
    @Blondie

    Isn’t it funny, the former NFL player, who is sitting on the set of a major morning news show, making plenty of money, wants to question Ambassador Young’s take on things. He wants to be angry at something so bad that he cannot see how good he has it staring him in the face. I love Young’s response to these guys, but I’m afraid it went right over their heads. You can’t question their motives. 

    • #9
  10. Mad Gerald Coolidge
    Mad Gerald
    @Jose

    Fritz (View Comment):

    Because society has changed, victimhood has changed from having your church blown up to Chuck E Cheese not giving you a high five.

    A great statement — the money quote!

    It has been called “Selma envy”.

    • #10
  11. Vance Richards Member
    Vance Richards
    @VanceRichards

    Blondie (View Comment):

    Isn’t it funny, the former NFL player, who is sitting on the set of a major morning news show, making plenty of money, wants to question Ambassador Young’s take on things. He wants to be angry at something so bad that he cannot see how good he has it staring him in the face. I love Young’s response to these guys, but I’m afraid it went right over their heads. You can’t question their motives.

    A Black guy who went from making millions in the NFL to making millions on TV wants to tell a guy who lived through Jim Crow how bad racism is today? And they almost seem surprised that Young wouldn’t agree.

    • #11
  12. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Vance Richards: Young march in Birmingham with Rev. Martin Luther King at a time when Black owned homes and churches were getting bombed by the Klan

    I’m just curious. Do you know how many such bombings occurred?

    I’ve heard and read this type of thing before. It’s bad, of course, but I don’t know how widespread it was. Are we talking about ten crimes? Ten thousand?

    Jerry, I lived just a few blocks from the Reverend Martin Luther King during the 1950’s. I experienced the white side of the official discrimination that blacks faced. Schools, public transportation, public accommodations, hotels and restaurants and I’m certain it carried into many things that may not have been specifically covered. The crimes were many, maybe not thousands but many more than ten and, of course, we are talking crimes in many states of the South. I think most of the organized criminal activity in the South was led by the remnants of the Klan. I don’t think there was participation by very many people by that time. There were some political leaders who really didn’t help matters much, people like Orville Faubus, George Wallace, and Lester Maddox. Matters then shifted to the large Northern cities where de facto segregation was being challenged by shifts in real estate transactions causing much ill-will. Northern cities had large ethnic communities that were being broken up and displeasure with that ran high. I’m sure you have knowledge of some of this.

    It is rather amazing that the young people today think they have a formidable task to push against the rather minor obstacles that still need to be overcome when compared to the achievements of those of Reverend King’s generation. The remaining problems today as I see it could be addressed easily with the correct policies.

    Bob, this didn’t answer my question in the slightest.

    My suspicion is that the level of violence against blacks was very low, and was greatly exaggerated for purposes of Leftist propaganda.  We have seen this in recent years.  The OP made me wonder whether that was true in the 1950s-60s.

    I do think that I have previously seen an estimate of the number of lynchings in the country, which was somewhere around 5,000 over a period of almost 100 years.  Looking it up, I find:

    • Wikipedia reporting a Tuskegee Institute report finding lynchings of 3,446 blacks and 1,297 whites between 1882 and 1968.  That’s an average of 39/year (for blacks).
    • The same Wikipedia entry reporting a study by the Equal Justice Initiative finding 4,084 lynchings in Southern states between 1877 and 1950, plus 300 in other states.  Average of 59/year.

    How many black-on-black homicides are there now?  Figures vary a bit, as the information isn’t perfect, but it seems to run around 7,000-10,000/year.

    This seems to support my suspicion that alleged Klan-type violence is greatly overstated.  There was some, doubtless, and that’s bad, but the rates seem to be very low.

    The narrative, though, seems to be that such crime was ubiquitous before the 1960s.  Which, you might notice, is basically what BLM falsely claims today.

    So maybe much of the Civil Rights narrative is also false.

    • #12
  13. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    How many black-on-black homicides are there now?  Figures vary a bit, as the information isn’t perfect, but it seems to run around 7,000-10,000/year.

    This seems to support my suspicion that alleged Klan-type violence is greatly overstated.  There was some, doubtless, and that’s bad, but the rates seem to be very low.

    The narrative, though, seems to be that such crime was ubiquitous before the 1960s.  Which, you might notice, is basically what BLM falsely claims today.

    So maybe much of the Civil Rights narrative is also false.

    You don’t seem to think that government direction and force against black people in a de jure segregated society in the South was criminal even when declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. That enforcement was not carried out at a very low rate. You have never seen it.

    • #13
  14. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    David C. Broussard (View Comment):
    How is that different from some Klansman who assumes that all Blacks are less intelligent, less hard working less capable than he is, just because of the color of their skin.

    This seems like a strawman, to me.  Maybe we could stop the virtue signaling, and face the actual facts.

    Maybe some hypothetical Klansman might think that all blacks are less intelligent.  The empirical fact is that the IQ distribution of blacks is substantially lower than the IQ distribution of whites, probably by around 10-15 IQ points (between 2/3 of a standard deviation and 1 standard deviation).

    The conclusion about this lower distribution of ability, at least regarding IQ, is supported by the empirical evidence, as detailed in The Bell Curve.  Well, at least if we take your reference to “the color of their skin” figuratively, to mean because of racial characteristics.  I’ve never read or heard of anyone who thinks that melanin pigmentation has an effect on IQ, in an of itself.  Such pigmentation appears to be correlated with at least one biological factor, brain size, which one would expect to have an effect on IQ.  The correlation between brain size and IQ has been empirically confirmed.

    The degree of genetic contribution to the racial IQ differential is debatable.  My recollection is that The Bell Curve put the range at 40-60%, and I think that Murray’s more recent reports suggest that it’s toward the higher end of that scale.  Murray addresses the racial IQ difference again in his recent book, Facing Reality, though that particular book does not address the issue of causation.

    These are the empirical facts.  If you want a good and fairly recent overview, you can look at this 2005 paper by Rushton and Jensen.

    • #14
  15. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Vance Richards (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Vance Richards: Young march in Birmingham with Rev. Martin Luther King at a time when Black owned homes and churches were getting bombed by the Klan

    I’m just curious. Do you know how many such bombings occurred?

    I’ve heard and read this type of thing before. It’s bad, of course, but I don’t know how widespread it was. Are we talking about ten crimes? Ten thousand?

    According to Wikipedia (so take that for what it’s worth), about 50 explosions between 1947 and 1965. The church bombing in 63’ that killed four girls was the only one I ever heard about but that was all before my time.

    This is very helpful.  Thank you.  To be clear, the Wikipedia list includes both bombings and other arson.

    So, the number of such bombings and arson was somewhere under 3/year.  To put this in perspective, Wikipedia reports that 68 Christian churches in Canada were burned in 2021.  It barely made the news.

    The more information that I see here, the more I’m led to believe that a tiny number of crimes against blacks, in the 1940s-1960s, was blown all out of proportion for purposes of propaganda.  Those crimes are bad, but there is no evidence of some massive crime wave by Klan-types.

    On the basis of that propaganda, we were led first to discard the principle of freedom of association, and then to accept the principle of open Black Privilege in the form of so-called “affirmative action” preferences for blacks.

    I do support the idea that the government should not discriminate on the basis of race, due to the Equal Protection Clause.  Of course, the actual result of the Civil Rights Movement has been over 50 years of open, overt discrimination on the basis of race, against whites.

    • #15
  16. David C. Broussard Coolidge
    David C. Broussard
    @Dbroussa

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    David C. Broussard (View Comment):
    How is that different from some Klansman who assumes that all Blacks are less intelligent, less hard working less capable than he is, just because of the color of their skin.

    This seems like a strawman, to me. Maybe we could stop the virtue signaling, and face the actual facts.

    […]

    These are the empirical facts. If you want a good and fairly recent overview, you can look at this 2005 paper by Rushton and Jensen.

    Jerry, the racism of past years wasn’t that Black’s were a few IQ points lower, but that Blacks were sub-human.  It wasn’t that a Klansman read academic studies that showed that the average Black was slightly lower than that of Whites.  While that may be true (for a number of reasons), the belief in that Klansman’s superiority was not based in an academic study, but on a belief that as a White man, he was superior to every Black man because he was White and they were Black.  You could take the smarted Black man in the world and they would be looked down upon by those Whites because he was Black.

    We have eradicated the unequal treatment by the law and the gov’t towards Blacks, we still need to wait out the last vestiges of racism that is in people’s hearts.  It needs to die out as the people who grew up in it die off.  Trying to go faster is a recipe for thought control and rebellion.  There are empirical facts that Blacks have better musculature and cardiovascular health as well, but that doesn’t make Black’s superior to Whites.

    • #16
  17. David C. Broussard Coolidge
    David C. Broussard
    @Dbroussa

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    The more information that I see here, the more I’m led to believe that a tiny number of crimes against blacks, in the 1940s-1960s, was blown all out of proportion for purposes of propaganda.  Those crimes are bad, but there is no evidence of some massive crime wave by Klan-types.

    Firebombing of churches was a small part of the terrorism against Black in the South.  My wife and I visited my home town in Georgia in the late 80s before we were married (she grew up in South Texas).  She was appalled by the deference that Blacks, especially older Blacks gave to her in almost every interaction.  The level of politeness was obsequious because for generati0ns it was drilled into Blacks that if they were ever just a little bit less than totally submissive to a White person they would be punished for it.  Not, necessarily physically, but socially and economically.  That was beaten into them (sometimes literally) from Reconstruction forward.  Its almost gone now, but in the late 80s, it was certainly present.  I remember that we were thinking of renting a house there if my wife pursued her studies in the early 90s and I found a listing in the paper and called about the house.  It was a good price and was very near the mall in town.  The agent I was talking to told me that she didn’t think I should rent the house without going to the neighborhood first because I likely wouldn’t like it.  I was fairly dense about it and finally she said, “It’s a Black neighborhood” and we hung up.  Yeah, that was 30 years ago.  We have come a long way, and we should be very proud of our progress, but we should not dismiss how bad the racism in the South was…because it was very bad.  We can, and should, challenge if we still need many of the programs that were supposed to end racism, because they haven’t exactly worked and have had other negative consequences.  We can decry the current anti-racism claptrap because it isn’t anti-racism, but rather transferred racism with a goal of allowing grifters to profit forever on a problem that they say cannot be solved.

    We should challenge those things, and strive to be better, but we cannot forget how bad things really were.

    • #17
  18. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    How many black-on-black homicides are there now? Figures vary a bit, as the information isn’t perfect, but it seems to run around 7,000-10,000/year.

    This seems to support my suspicion that alleged Klan-type violence is greatly overstated. There was some, doubtless, and that’s bad, but the rates seem to be very low.

    The narrative, though, seems to be that such crime was ubiquitous before the 1960s. Which, you might notice, is basically what BLM falsely claims today.

    So maybe much of the Civil Rights narrative is also false.

    You don’t seem to think that government direction and force against black people in a de jure segregated society in the South was criminal even when declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. That enforcement was not carried out at a very low rate. You have never seen it.

    No, I was responding to the claim in the OP:

    Vance Richards: Young march in Birmingham with Rev. Martin Luther King at a time when Black owned homes and churches were getting bombed by the Klan.

    That seems to be an overstatement.  It is the sort of thing that I hear and read pretty regularly.  I’m questioning whether it is true, in any broad sense as opposed to occasional terrible crimes, and the answer that I’m reaching is “no.”

    I then notice that this is the same tactic used by BLM today.  It’s also used by Jewish advocates with overstated claims of anti-Semitism.  Both are used to promote policies that favor the supposedly victimized group, at the expense of the majority.

    • #18
  19. thelonious Member
    thelonious
    @thelonious

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Vance Richards

    My suspicion is that the level of violence against blacks was very low, and was greatly exaggerated for purposes of Leftist propaganda. We have seen this in recent years. The OP made me wonder whether that was true in the 1950s-60s.

    I do think that I have previously seen an estimate of the number of lynchings in the country, which was somewhere around 5,000 over a period of almost 100 years. Looking it up, I find:

    • Wikipedia reporting a Tuskegee Institute report finding lynchings of 3,446 blacks and 1,297 whites between 1882 and 1968. That’s an average of 39/year (for blacks).
    • The same Wikipedia entry reporting a study by the Equal Justice Initiative finding 4,084 lynchings in Southern states between 1877 and 1950, plus 300 in other states. Average of 59/year.

    How many black-on-black homicides are there now? Figures vary a bit, as the information isn’t perfect, but it seems to run around 7,000-10,000/year.

    This seems to support my suspicion that alleged Klan-type violence is greatly overstated. There was some, doubtless, and that’s bad, but the rates on average.

    A vigilante terrorist organization that on average lynching 59 people a year is a big deal. You don’t think lynching had a chilling effect on black people?  Especially when local law enforcement wouldn’t prosecute the terrorists responsible for the lynchings. A lynching is more than a crime statistic. It was used as a tool of terror.

     

    • #19
  20. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    thelonious (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Vance Richards:

    My suspicion is that the level of violence against blacks was very low, and was greatly exaggerated for purposes of Leftist propaganda. We have seen this in recent years. The OP made me wonder whether that was true in the 1950s-60s.

    I do think that I have previously seen an estimate of the number of lynchings in the country, which was somewhere around 5,000 over a period of almost 100 years. Looking it up, I find:

    • Wikipedia reporting a Tuskegee Institute report finding lynchings of 3,446 blacks and 1,297 whites between 1882 and 1968. That’s an average of 39/year (for blacks).
    • The same Wikipedia entry reporting a study by the Equal Justice Initiative finding 4,084 lynchings in Southern states between 1877 and 1950, plus 300 in other states. Average of 59/year.

    How many black-on-black homicides are there now? Figures vary a bit, as the information isn’t perfect, but it seems to run around 7,000-10,000/year.

    This seems to support my suspicion that alleged Klan-type violence is greatly overstated. There was some, doubtless, and that’s bad, but the rates on average.

    A vigilante terrorist organization that on average lynching 59 people a year is a big deal. You don’t think lynching had a chilling effect on black people? Especially when local law enforcement wouldn’t prosecute the terrorists responsible for the lynchings. A lynching is more than a crime statistic. It was used as a tool of terror.

     

    This is why Jerry is completely at sea trying to use statistics like bombing black churches and homes, and if that number somehow seems relatively small for the size of the society, then minimizing the effects that could have on the black community. I grew up in that environment and I will attest to an extremely high level of intimidation created by small numbers of white people augmented by groups like the Klan and corrupted elements of law enforcement and laws that fostered these behaviors. These were and have always been my enemies politically.

    • #20
  21. thelonious Member
    thelonious
    @thelonious

    A crowd gathering to witness the killing of Thomas Shipp and Abram Smith, two victims of lynch law in Marion, Indiana, 7th August 1930. This image was the inspiration for the poem ‘Strange Fruit’ by Abel Meeropol. (Photo Lawrence Beitler/by Hulton Archive/Getty Images)

     

    A statistically insignificant event. After all it’s only 2 people who were murdered.

    • #21
  22. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Vance Richards (View Comment):

    Blondie (View Comment):

    Isn’t it funny, the former NFL player, who is sitting on the set of a major morning news show, making plenty of money, wants to question Ambassador Young’s take on things. He wants to be angry at something so bad that he cannot see how good he has it staring him in the face. I love Young’s response to these guys, but I’m afraid it went right over their heads. You can’t question their motives.

    A Black guy who went from making millions in the NFL to making millions on TV wants to tell a guy who lived through Jim Crow how bad racism is today? And they almost seem surprised that Young wouldn’t agree.

    This is an entirely normal and human pattern that I have obviously constantly among all the races of man. The guy with the least to complain about complains more than someone that had to endure a great deal of hardship. I don’t know why that is but that is how the human do.

    • #22
  23. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Sorry. Repost.

    • #23
  24. JamieLee Coolidge
    JamieLee
    @JamieLee

    I appreciated seeing this clip.  The most important sentence was “Because you are a sinner.”  The issues we have are the result of sin.  Thank you Mr. Young for reminding us of the reason things don’t go well between humans.

     

    • #24
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