Pride Month? Seriously?

 

I don’t understand it. This level of sheer corporate pageantry doesn’t even happen for Black History Month. The US is not a country that undertakes mass PR campaigns celebrating abstract identity groups for an entire month. This seems a bit much for epater la bourgeoisie (the emotional need of certain rich people to constantly shock the sensibilities of the middle class). What is going on?

As a bisexual, I’m expected to think of myself as part of this weird amorphous “LGBT” thing, a category that includes a fantastic number of freaks and weirdos and people I want nothing to do with. Sexual orientation is not the same thing as identity. Seeing sign after sign proclaiming “Pride Month” in every store I go to is surreal. What’s the point?

This almost strikes me as a religious phenomenon. Aside from hardcore pro-binary trans people, most sexual identities are 100% socially constructed. That’s true for queer people, the non-binary, lesbians, and those gay men who have a “sexual identity” (many do not). So is Pride Month just a weird upper-class sexual cult? I don’t know.

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  1. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

     

    I’ll go back to the twin boys of my wife’s nephew. One of them seems normal. The other seems very feminine. My guess is that the feminine boy will be a homosexual adult.

    An odd assumption.  

    So, the question for my nephew and his wife (the boy’s parents) is whether they will try to convince their son to “convert” to heterosexuality. As I see it, that’s a fools errand. It would be like asking someone to “convert” from being 5 feet 4 inches tall to being 6 feet 2 inches tall. Sure, you can say that being 6 feet 2 inches tall is “better.” It’s just not a realistic option for those of us who aren’t 6 feet 2 inches tall.

    Back when the homosexual politicos were really getting a hold on the country they see-sawed between, “it’s not a choice, I was born this way,” and “How dare you say I was born this way; I chose to be this way.”   It was almost funny to watch the arguments as they struggled to contain a consistent message in the movement that the dems glommed onto.

    Seeing as how primitive cultures often don’t experience this behavior at all, I’m going to stick with the whole choice part.  It might be both, most likely is to some extent, but it’s not like being short or tall.  It’s like being normal or being a psychopath.  Sure homocidal psychopaths might be perfectly natural in how they get that way, but that doesn’t make it right.  Homocidal psychopaths are much worse than homosexuals, of course, if they don’t curb their tendencies — which we as a society demand that they do.  We should also demand that homosexuals not groom children and stop forcing us to pretend that they aren’t by definition perverts.

    • #121
  2. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Skyler (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

     

    I’ll go back to the twin boys of my wife’s nephew. One of them seems normal. The other seems very feminine. My guess is that the feminine boy will be a homosexual adult.

    An odd assumption.

    So, the question for my nephew and his wife (the boy’s parents) is whether they will try to convince their son to “convert” to heterosexuality. As I see it, that’s a fools errand. It would be like asking someone to “convert” from being 5 feet 4 inches tall to being 6 feet 2 inches tall. Sure, you can say that being 6 feet 2 inches tall is “better.” It’s just not a realistic option for those of us who aren’t 6 feet 2 inches tall.

    Back when the homosexual politicos were really getting a hold on the country they see-sawed between, “it’s not a choice, I was born this way,” and “How dare you say I was born this way; I chose to be this way.” It was almost funny to watch the arguments as they struggled to contain a consistent message in the movement that the dems glommed onto.

    Seeing as how primitive cultures often don’t experience this behavior at all, I’m going to stick with the whole choice part. It might be both, most likely is to some extent, but it’s not like being short or tall. It’s like being normal or being a psychopath. Sure homocidal psychopaths might be perfectly natural in how they get that way, but that doesn’t make it right. Homocidal psychopaths are much worse than homosexuals, of course, if they don’t curb their tendencies — which we as a society demand that they do. We should also demand that homosexuals not groom children and stop forcing us to pretend that they aren’t by definition perverts.

    The important difference between a homicidal psychopath and a homosexual is the homicide part.  In other words, when one person kills another person, society has an interest in incapacitating the person who killed another person.  

    But when one person falls in love with a person of the same sex, both people are adults and consent to the relationship, there’s no harm.  

    • #122
  3. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

     

    The important difference between a homicidal psychopath and a homosexual is the homicide part. In other words, when one person kills another person, society has an interest in incapacitating the person who killed another person.

    Of course, but it’s a matter of degree.  They’re both wrong behavior, homosexuality should not be a punishable offense, but it should have a strong element of shame and exclusion from society.  No one cared about Liberace, Queen, Elton John, or anyone else for their perversions.  They minded their business and all was well.  But marxists don’t allow people to live in peace, there must be control and debasement of the individual to promote obedience to them.  Everything, especially what is normally very private, must be controlled.

    But when one person falls in love with a person of the same sex, both people are adults and consent to the relationship, there’s no harm.

    Yeah, love.  Sure.  (Where’s the sarcasm emoji?)  But there is harm when it becomes a political agenda to foist their perversions on us.  Are you going to say that grooming children in schools is not harmful?  Do you think raising children to want to pretend to change their sex through surgery is not harmful?   That is where the homosexual agenda has led us, and it was predicted by many of us.  

    The agenda thrives because we don’t challenge the premise.  Homosexuality is not harmless.  

    • #123
  4. BDB Inactive
    BDB
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    TBA (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):
    Hopefully at some point in the future we will enjoy the best of both worlds: a society that is tolerant of homosexuality but also a society where the politics of intersectionality is seen a bunk.

    We could start by restoring the understanding that toleration neither implies nor requires approval, endorsement, and celebration.

    I think approval of homosexuality will continue to be encouraged. People who publicly express disapproval of homosexuality tend to be looked down upon. I don’t think this will change anytime soon. In fact, over time disapproval of homosexuality is likely to be viewed as similar to disapproval of inter-racial friendships or inter-racial marriage.

    That depends whether orthodox Christians, Jews, and Muslims change their beliefs on sexual morality, or else diminish substantially in numbers. Personally I doubt either will happen, but time will tell.

    Turns out a lot of gays look down on orthodox Christians, Jews, and Muslims.

    Never forget that Act Up invaded churches during mass.

    why did they do that?

    Because they believed their message was more important than the message that the people showed up for and that they had a right to other peoples’ time and building.

    Domestic terrorism.  Intimidation via mob action for political purposes.  The same is true of people like Waters and Pelosi calling for mob action.  Remember people starting scenes in restaurants etc?  Seems like small potatoes, but the purpose there is to intimidate people out of their political positions.  A church or a restaurant is not a public space fit for hammering out views — both are private spaces for defined purpose.

    • #124
  5. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Boy, here come the left-libertarians who identify as conservative.

    • #125
  6. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Regardless of whether human beings are “nothing more than sacks of chemicals” or not, human beings do have moral responsibility in my book. But that moral responsibility does not necessarily entail consensual adults avoiding sex.

     

    And to this sack of chemicals, it most especially does.

    Then you can remain celibate if you wish. But you shouldn’t expect others to join you in your celibacy.

    I don’t care what others do. And I don’t care what you or others think. What I don’t like is being forced to “celebrate” perversion.

    It’s almost like the guys who don’t think praising G-d or speaking of allegiance to the flag are appropriate things to ask of children nevertheless imagine that there are certain things that must be praised and allied to.

    As it happens, I am fine with removing prayer (which can end up pretty divisive) and pledging allegiance to the flag (which is a strange thing to ask of minors). I would appreciate, though, more uniformity in not requiring uniformity in students.

    As you indicated, when it comes to God, different people/communities have different views on the nature of God, not to mention whether God exists at all. If a Baptist found out that his child was being forced to pray in the direction of Mecca to Allah and recite verses from the Quran, he would have reason to object.

    I’ll go back to the twin boys of my wife’s nephew. One of them seems normal. The other seems very feminine. My guess is that the feminine boy will be a homosexual adult.

    So, the question for my nephew and his wife (the boy’s parents) is whether they will try to convince their son to “convert” to heterosexuality. As I see it, that’s a fools errand. It would be like asking someone to “convert” from being 5 feet 4 inches tall to being 6 feet 2 inches tall. Sure, you can say that being 6 feet 2 inches tall is “better.” It’s just not a realistic option for those of us who aren’t 6 feet 2 inches tall.

    LGBTQ apologists have framed gayness in a multitude of ways, among these was the idea that sex attraction is fluid, and that most people aren’t 100% gay or 100% straight. If we assume they aren’t just saying this to get laid, then converting is should be possible in quite a lot of cases. 

    • #126
  7. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    TBA (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Regardless of whether human beings are “nothing more than sacks of chemicals” or not, human beings do have moral responsibility in my book. But that moral responsibility does not necessarily entail consensual adults avoiding sex.

     

    And to this sack of chemicals, it most especially does.

    Then you can remain celibate if you wish. But you shouldn’t expect others to join you in your celibacy.

    I don’t care what others do. And I don’t care what you or others think. What I don’t like is being forced to “celebrate” perversion.

    It’s almost like the guys who don’t think praising G-d or speaking of allegiance to the flag are appropriate things to ask of children nevertheless imagine that there are certain things that must be praised and allied to.

    As it happens, I am fine with removing prayer (which can end up pretty divisive) and pledging allegiance to the flag (which is a strange thing to ask of minors). I would appreciate, though, more uniformity in not requiring uniformity in students.

    As you indicated, when it comes to God, different people/communities have different views on the nature of God, not to mention whether God exists at all. If a Baptist found out that his child was being forced to pray in the direction of Mecca to Allah and recite verses from the Quran, he would have reason to object.

    I’ll go back to the twin boys of my wife’s nephew. One of them seems normal. The other seems very feminine. My guess is that the feminine boy will be a homosexual adult.

    So, the question for my nephew and his wife (the boy’s parents) is whether they will try to convince their son to “convert” to heterosexuality. As I see it, that’s a fools errand. It would be like asking someone to “convert” from being 5 feet 4 inches tall to being 6 feet 2 inches tall. Sure, you can say that being 6 feet 2 inches tall is “better.” It’s just not a realistic option for those of us who aren’t 6 feet 2 inches tall.

    LGBTQ apologists have framed gayness in a multitude of ways, among these was the idea that sex attraction is fluid, and that most people aren’t 100% gay or 100% straight. If we assume they aren’t just saying this to get laid, then converting is should be possible in quite a lot of cases.

    I don’t think sexual attraction is very fluid, even if some people are attracted to people of both sexes.  I don’t think it would be easy to have someone convert from straight to gay/lesbian by putting someone through a 3 week course.  

    The gay friends I have seem like they not likely to change.  They can only be terrorized into not pursuing same sex relationships.  

    • #127
  8. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Skyler (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

     

    The important difference between a homicidal psychopath and a homosexual is the homicide part. In other words, when one person kills another person, society has an interest in incapacitating the person who killed another person.

    Of course, but it’s a matter of degree. They’re both wrong behavior, homosexuality should not be a punishable offense, but it should have a strong element of shame and exclusion from society. No one cared about Liberace, Queen, Elton John, or anyone else for their perversions. They minded their business and all was well. But marxists don’t allow people to live in peace, there must be control and debasement of the individual to promote obedience to them. Everything, especially what is normally very private, must be controlled.

    But when one person falls in love with a person of the same sex, both people are adults and consent to the relationship, there’s no harm.

    Yeah, love. Sure. (Where’s the sarcasm emoji?) But there is harm when it becomes a political agenda to foist their perversions on us. Are you going to say that grooming children in schools is not harmful? Do you think raising children to want to pretend to change their sex through surgery is not harmful? That is where the homosexual agenda has led us, and it was predicted by many of us.

    The agenda thrives because we don’t challenge the premise. Homosexuality is not harmless.

    Homosexuality is as harmless as college football.  In college football athletes can end up with torn ACLs, broken bones, separated shoulders, brain damage.  Yet we encourage people to play college football.  

    • #128
  9. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    It’s almost like the guys who don’t think praising G-d or speaking of allegiance to the flag are appropriate things to ask of children nevertheless imagine that there are certain things that must be praised and allied to.

    As it happens, I am fine with removing prayer (which can end up pretty divisive) and pledging allegiance to the flag (which is a strange thing to ask of minors). I would appreciate, though, more uniformity in not requiring uniformity in students.

    As you indicated, when it comes to God, different people/communities have different views on the nature of God, not to mention whether God exists at all. If a Baptist found out that his child was being forced to pray in the direction of Mecca to Allah and recite verses from the Quran, he would have reason to object.

    I’ll go back to the twin boys of my wife’s nephew. One of them seems normal. The other seems very feminine. My guess is that the feminine boy will be a homosexual adult.

    So, the question for my nephew and his wife (the boy’s parents) is whether they will try to convince their son to “convert” to heterosexuality. As I see it, that’s a fools errand. It would be like asking someone to “convert” from being 5 feet 4 inches tall to being 6 feet 2 inches tall. Sure, you can say that being 6 feet 2 inches tall is “better.” It’s just not a realistic option for those of us who aren’t 6 feet 2 inches tall.

    LGBTQ apologists have framed gayness in a multitude of ways, among these was the idea that sex attraction is fluid, and that most people aren’t 100% gay or 100% straight. If we assume they aren’t just saying this to get laid, then converting is should be possible in quite a lot of cases.

    I don’t think sexual attraction is very fluid, even if some people are attracted to people of both sexes. I don’t think it would be easy to have someone convert from straight to gay/lesbian by putting someone through a 3 week course.

    The gay friends I have seem like they not likely to change. They can only be terrorized into not pursuing same sex relationships.

    Easy? No. 

    I’m holding out for people to stop claiming that it is impossible. 

    • #129
  10. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    TBA (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    It’s almost like the guys who don’t think praising G-d or speaking of allegiance to the flag are appropriate things to ask of children nevertheless imagine that there are certain things that must be praised and allied to.

    As it happens, I am fine with removing prayer (which can end up pretty divisive) and pledging allegiance to the flag (which is a strange thing to ask of minors). I would appreciate, though, more uniformity in not requiring uniformity in students.

    As you indicated, when it comes to God, different people/communities have different views on the nature of God, not to mention whether God exists at all. If a Baptist found out that his child was being forced to pray in the direction of Mecca to Allah and recite verses from the Quran, he would have reason to object.

    I’ll go back to the twin boys of my wife’s nephew. One of them seems normal. The other seems very feminine. My guess is that the feminine boy will be a homosexual adult.

    So, the question for my nephew and his wife (the boy’s parents) is whether they will try to convince their son to “convert” to heterosexuality. As I see it, that’s a fools errand. It would be like asking someone to “convert” from being 5 feet 4 inches tall to being 6 feet 2 inches tall. Sure, you can say that being 6 feet 2 inches tall is “better.” It’s just not a realistic option for those of us who aren’t 6 feet 2 inches tall.

    LGBTQ apologists have framed gayness in a multitude of ways, among these was the idea that sex attraction is fluid, and that most people aren’t 100% gay or 100% straight. If we assume they aren’t just saying this to get laid, then converting is should be possible in quite a lot of cases.

    I don’t think sexual attraction is very fluid, even if some people are attracted to people of both sexes. I don’t think it would be easy to have someone convert from straight to gay/lesbian by putting someone through a 3 week course.

    The gay friends I have seem like they not likely to change. They can only be terrorized into not pursuing same sex relationships.

    Easy? No.

    I’m holding out for people to stop claiming that it is impossible.

    Think about how possible it is for someone to persuade you to become a homosexual and then you might get a sense of how possible it is for someone to persuade a homosexual to become a heterosexual.  

    Sure, it might be possible.  But it seems like the chances are very close to zero.  

    • #130
  11. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    It’s almost like the guys who don’t think praising G-d or speaking of allegiance to the flag are appropriate things to ask of children nevertheless imagine that there are certain things that must be praised and allied to.

    As it happens, I am fine with removing prayer (which can end up pretty divisive) and pledging allegiance to the flag (which is a strange thing to ask of minors). I would appreciate, though, more uniformity in not requiring uniformity in students.

    As you indicated, when it comes to God, different people/communities have different views on the nature of God, not to mention whether God exists at all. If a Baptist found out that his child was being forced to pray in the direction of Mecca to Allah and recite verses from the Quran, he would have reason to object.

    I’ll go back to the twin boys of my wife’s nephew. One of them seems normal. The other seems very feminine. My guess is that the feminine boy will be a homosexual adult.

    So, the question for my nephew and his wife (the boy’s parents) is whether they will try to convince their son to “convert” to heterosexuality. As I see it, that’s a fools errand. It would be like asking someone to “convert” from being 5 feet 4 inches tall to being 6 feet 2 inches tall. Sure, you can say that being 6 feet 2 inches tall is “better.” It’s just not a realistic option for those of us who aren’t 6 feet 2 inches tall.

    LGBTQ apologists have framed gayness in a multitude of ways, among these was the idea that sex attraction is fluid, and that most people aren’t 100% gay or 100% straight. If we assume they aren’t just saying this to get laid, then converting is should be possible in quite a lot of cases.

    I don’t think sexual attraction is very fluid, even if some people are attracted to people of both sexes. I don’t think it would be easy to have someone convert from straight to gay/lesbian by putting someone through a 3 week course.

    The gay friends I have seem like they not likely to change. They can only be terrorized into not pursuing same sex relationships.

    Easy? No.

    I’m holding out for people to stop claiming that it is impossible.

    Think about how possible it is for someone to persuade you to become a homosexual and then you might get a sense of how possible it is for someone to persuade a homosexual to become a heterosexual.

    Sure, it might be possible. But it seems like the chances are very close to zero.

    You do understand I am not talking about all or even most homosexuals, yes? 

    • #131
  12. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    TBA (View Comment):

    Think about how possible it is for someone to persuade you to become a homosexual and then you might get a sense of how possible it is for someone to persuade a homosexual to become a heterosexual.

    Sure, it might be possible. But it seems like the chances are very close to zero.

    You do understand I am not talking about all or even most homosexuals, yes? 

    And my concern is that the chances may be very different with teenagers who are still figuring out lots of aspects of who they are, and thus are persuadable in ways that a 30 year old or a 45 year old are not. What a culture celebrates among 30 year olds or 45 year olds (or even what the culture says is “normal”) helps to persuade what a teenager thinks he or she should follow. 

    • #132
  13. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    GrannyDude (View Comment):

    (I’ve read ancient Greek novels, published around the same time as the New Testament, that mention homosexual attraction quite casually and without obvious alarm, for instance). 

     

    What’s interesting about the ancient world is that while as you say same-sex relationships were acknowledged and even celebrated, the idea that such people were therefore “homosexual” literally hadn’t been invented yet.  Typically the older man in a man/boy love affair was married with children.  Men were more-or-less expected to cheat on their wives, and better that they have an affair with a single boy than one of the neighbor’s wives.

    • #133
  14. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    HeavyWater (View Comment):
    One of the most important questions regarding morality is whether someone is harmed or helped by an action. 

    And yet morality cannot be reduced to whether something causes harm, it involves broader questions of human flourishing.  See The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion by Jonathan Haidt for an explanation.

    • #134
  15. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I don’t think sexual attraction is very fluid, even if some people are attracted to people of both sexes. I don’t think it would be easy to have someone convert from straight to gay/lesbian by putting someone through a 3 week course.

    The gay friends I have seem like they not likely to change. They can only be terrorized into not pursuing same sex relationships.

    Easy? No.

    I’m holding out for people to stop claiming that it is impossible.

    Think about how possible it is for someone to persuade you to become a homosexual and then you might get a sense of how possible it is for someone to persuade a homosexual to become a heterosexual.  

    Sure, it might be possible.  But it seems like the chances are very close to zero.  

    Who said it was easy?  It’s also difficult to cure gender dysphoria, eating disorders, alcoholism, drug addiction, depression, anxiety, and so forth.

    The fact that something is difficult neither proves that it is impossible, nor that it is not even worth trying.

    • #135
  16. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    GrannyDude (View Comment):

    (I’ve read ancient Greek novels, published around the same time as the New Testament, that mention homosexual attraction quite casually and without obvious alarm, for instance).

     

    What’s interesting about the ancient world is that while as you say same-sex relationships were acknowledged and even celebrated, the idea that such people were therefore “homosexual” literally hadn’t been invented yet. Typically the older man in a man/boy love affair was married with children. Men were more-or-less expected to cheat on their wives, and better that they have an affair with a single boy than one of the neighbor’s wives.

    It’s still common in Arabic/Muslim societies.  When my battalion was gearing up to go to Afghanistan, someone arranged for a cultural briefing.  Some Afghan came and gave a talk, and in it he told us that if you walk by a house and hear a little boy screaming, just keep on walking.  An uncle is probably having sex with his nephew and if you go in the house, you’ll just embarrass the uncle.  I heard him say that with my own ears.  After he left, I gathered the Marines in my charge and explained to them to forget what that idiot told them, if someone is being raped whether it be a woman or a boy, you should consider it a crime and act accordingly.  We are not police, but we are still humans.

    • #136
  17. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):
    One of the most important questions regarding morality is whether someone is harmed or helped by an action.

    And yet morality cannot be reduced to whether something causes harm, it involves broader questions of human flourishing. See The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion by Jonathan Haidt for an explanation.

    Sure.  But human flourishing is more likely to occur if people are free to engage in relationships with other people, rather than be forced into celibacy.  Celibacy might be attractive to a small subset of the human population.  But for the large majority, engaging in romantic relationships is an essential part of human flourishing.  

     

    • #137
  18. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I don’t think sexual attraction is very fluid, even if some people are attracted to people of both sexes. I don’t think it would be easy to have someone convert from straight to gay/lesbian by putting someone through a 3 week course.

    The gay friends I have seem like they not likely to change. They can only be terrorized into not pursuing same sex relationships.

    Easy? No.

    I’m holding out for people to stop claiming that it is impossible.

    Think about how possible it is for someone to persuade you to become a homosexual and then you might get a sense of how possible it is for someone to persuade a homosexual to become a heterosexual.

    Sure, it might be possible. But it seems like the chances are very close to zero.

    Who said it was easy? It’s also difficult to cure gender dysphoria, eating disorders, alcoholism, drug addiction, depression, anxiety, and so forth.

    The fact that something is difficult neither proves that it is impossible, nor that it is not even worth trying.

    Sure.  You can try.  But it is likely to be just as much of a wasted effort as it would be if someone tried to persuade you to become homosexual rather than heterosexual. 

    Imagine if someone tried to “cure” you of your heterosexuality.  They could put you through a conversion program or a series of conversion programs.  But these efforts would not only be likely to fail, they would likely cause conflict between you and person trying to convert you. 

    After all, you are happy as a heterosexual and you don’t see your heterosexuality as a problem that has to be solved.  So, having someone say, “You need to stop being romantic with that woman,” is likely to be worse than useless.    

    • #138
  19. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    GrannyDude (View Comment):

    (I’ve read ancient Greek novels, published around the same time as the New Testament, that mention homosexual attraction quite casually and without obvious alarm, for instance).

     

    What’s interesting about the ancient world is that while as you say same-sex relationships were acknowledged and even celebrated, the idea that such people were therefore “homosexual” literally hadn’t been invented yet. Typically the older man in a man/boy love affair was married with children. Men were more-or-less expected to cheat on their wives, and better that they have an affair with a single boy than one of the neighbor’s wives.

    It’s still common in Arabic/Muslim societies. When my battalion was gearing up to go to Afghanistan, someone arranged for a cultural briefing. Some Afghan came and gave a talk, and in it he told us that if you walk by a house and hear a little boy screaming, just keep on walking. An uncle is probably having sex with his nephew and if you go in the house, you’ll just embarrass the uncle. I heard him say that with my own ears. After he left, I gathered the Marines in my charge and explained to them to forget what that idiot told them, if someone is being raped whether it be a woman or a boy, you should consider it a crime and act accordingly. We are not police, but we are still humans.

    All humans are meant to be police. 

    • #139
  20. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I don’t think sexual attraction is very fluid, even if some people are attracted to people of both sexes. I don’t think it would be easy to have someone convert from straight to gay/lesbian by putting someone through a 3 week course.

    The gay friends I have seem like they not likely to change. They can only be terrorized into not pursuing same sex relationships.

    Easy? No.

    I’m holding out for people to stop claiming that it is impossible.

    Think about how possible it is for someone to persuade you to become a homosexual and then you might get a sense of how possible it is for someone to persuade a homosexual to become a heterosexual.

    Sure, it might be possible. But it seems like the chances are very close to zero.

    Who said it was easy? It’s also difficult to cure gender dysphoria, eating disorders, alcoholism, drug addiction, depression, anxiety, and so forth.

    The fact that something is difficult neither proves that it is impossible, nor that it is not even worth trying.

    Sure. You can try. But it is likely to be just as much of a wasted effort as it would be if someone tried to persuade you to become homosexual rather than heterosexual.

    Imagine if someone tried to “cure” you of your heterosexuality. They could put you through a conversion program or a series of conversion programs. But these efforts would not only be likely to fail, they would likely cause conflict between you and person trying to convert you.

    After all, you are happy as a heterosexual and you don’t see your heterosexuality as a problem that has to be solved. So, having someone say, “You need to stop being romantic with that woman,” is likely to be worse than useless.

    I am against forced conversion. And I am against forced removal of the opportunity to convert.  

     

    • #140
  21. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    TBA (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    I don’t think sexual attraction is very fluid, even if some people are attracted to people of both sexes. I don’t think it would be easy to have someone convert from straight to gay/lesbian by putting someone through a 3 week course.

    The gay friends I have seem like they not likely to change. They can only be terrorized into not pursuing same sex relationships.

    Easy? No.

    I’m holding out for people to stop claiming that it is impossible.

    Think about how possible it is for someone to persuade you to become a homosexual and then you might get a sense of how possible it is for someone to persuade a homosexual to become a heterosexual.

    Sure, it might be possible. But it seems like the chances are very close to zero.

    Who said it was easy? It’s also difficult to cure gender dysphoria, eating disorders, alcoholism, drug addiction, depression, anxiety, and so forth.

    The fact that something is difficult neither proves that it is impossible, nor that it is not even worth trying.

    Sure. You can try. But it is likely to be just as much of a wasted effort as it would be if someone tried to persuade you to become homosexual rather than heterosexual.

    Imagine if someone tried to “cure” you of your heterosexuality. They could put you through a conversion program or a series of conversion programs. But these efforts would not only be likely to fail, they would likely cause conflict between you and person trying to convert you.

    After all, you are happy as a heterosexual and you don’t see your heterosexuality as a problem that has to be solved. So, having someone say, “You need to stop being romantic with that woman,” is likely to be worse than useless.

    I am against forced conversion. And I am against forced removal of the opportunity to convert.

    Sure.  Freedom of religion.  

    I might view certain religious ideas as foolish, like the idea held in some parts of Appalachia where if you have faith in Jesus you can handle poisonous snakes and not harm will come to you.  But people are free to choose, as Milton Friedman said.   

    • #141
  22. RyanFalcone Member
    RyanFalcone
    @RyanFalcone

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Cassandro (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Cassandro (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    So, you are either being dishonest or you just aren’t aware of history.

    Zafar (View Comment):

    I can’t remember, but are you the guy who wrote an OP about being upset because a waitress thought your friend was your partner?

    Wow. The pro-homosexual fists are flying now.

    I think Zafar directed his comment at Ryan, not me.

    Oh. Maybe I should delete the comment.

    It was to Ryan and it’s an honest question. I remember an OP like that – I think it was written by Ryan but I could be wrong.

    Edited to add:

    I remember thinking: another straight man obsessed with gay booty, it’s a sad world….

    No. That wasn’t me. I’m not sure how commenting in a thread makes me obsessed. You are obviously projecting.

    • #142
  23. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):

    I remember thinking: another straight man obsessed with gay booty, it’s a sad world….

    No. That wasn’t me. I’m not sure how commenting in a thread makes me obsessed. You are obviously projecting.

    Guilty as charged! Totally obsessed.

    • #143
  24. RyanFalcone Member
    RyanFalcone
    @RyanFalcone

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Chattel slavery was only prohibited in the US Constitution in December 1865.

    Neither Judaism nor Christianity began in 1865.

    So, you are either being dishonest or you just aren’t aware of history.

    It is equally ludicrous to think that homosexuality isn’t harmful to those who practice it.

    Homosexuals used to live “in the closet.” They would pretend to be heterosexual, so they would marry people of the opposite sex even though they weren’t attracted to them.

    The result was often an unhappy heterosexual who had a spouse who was not attracted him/her. Or just as often the homosexual would just have sex with someone of the same sex on the side, sometimes getting caught.

    So, it is much better for society if homosexuals can simply live their lives openly, just like heterosexuals can.

    I’m aware of history and posted in honesty and good faith. I know enough about history and civics to know that the fight over slavery didn’t begin in 1860. It was a major issue from the very beginning thanks to the Christian voices in the convention. It was non-Christians who protected slavery.

    Gays have always and always will suffer because of their sin as we all do. Obviously the cultural normalization of all these perversions isn’t making them any less miserable.

    • #144
  25. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    RyanFalcone (View Comment):

    It was a major issue from the very beginning thanks to the Christian voices in the convention. It was non-Christians who protected slavery.

    That is laughably wrong.  The Bible makes no condemnation of slavery and many Christians supported the institution because it saved Africans from paganism.  

    Anecdotally, the few people I have met in my life that conspiratorially whispered that slavery wasn’t so bad, or that some would benefit from such a “structured” life were born again bible thumping Christians.  

    • #145
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