Hey!

 

It was one shout too many.

We were returning home from a weekend celebrating the marriage of a dear cousin of ours. As we entered the jet plane, we saw lots of families and kids, so we anticipated the possibility of angry infants and restless toddlers. As I settled into my seat, I heard a shout—hey!—from the child directly behind me, who was neither a toddler nor an infant. I took a deep breath and hoped he’d settle down.

He didn’t.

As the plane took off, the little guy behind me randomly would just shout “hey,” followed by a shush from his mother, which was tolerable while I read on my Kindle. But after several times of drifting off to sleep and his voice jerking me awake, my patience finally vanished into thin air. I undid my seat belt, turned around, kneeled on my seat and glared at the little guy and said HEY! I asked, did I scare you? Followed by, when you shout hey, you scare me!

My heart jerked for a moment. He was a little guy, a flaming redhead with coke-bottle glasses. His head turned to one parent, then to the other. His mother then spoke up and said, he’s only four and this is his first flight. I responded with, well, I’m old. And then in my indoor voice, I repeated, I’m old. During this entire exchange, the little guy’s father, with his bizarre haircut and his arms covered with tattoos, kept his nose buried in his book.

I turned around and sat down, snapped on my seat belt, and waited to hear the next hey from behind me.

Not a peep.

I drifted in and out of sleep. As we approached Orlando, about 1.5 hours after the incident, I heard the little guy murmuring to his parents, asking them if the lady was still sleeping. I suspect they reassured him that he could speak at that point. So in a not-so-loud voice, I heard him say, zip it! Several times. I don’t know if it was directed at anyone in particular, and I suspect he was imitating a regular retort from his parents. I considered thanking him for not shouting anymore before I disembarked, but I felt I’d sufficiently made my point.

*     *     *     *

This incident brought up so many issues for me; I can’t stop thinking about it. I thought about whether I should have kept my mouth shut. I wondered if his parents often indulged his inappropriate behavior. I asked myself if he was old enough to understand the implications of his actions. (I didn’t raise children myself.)

Isn’t it important for children to learn early the limitations of their freedom? That shouting on the playground is wonderful, but not in a crowded airplane? Aren’t we preparing them for life when they learn to be respectful of us old codgers? Do parents worry too much about looking like “mean” parents?

All in all, I think my reaction was understandable. But appropriate? I don’t know.

I hope his parents learned a lesson, too.

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  1. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Spin (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Spin (View Comment):
    “I have a very low tolerance for kids who don’t do what they are told, when they are told.”

    Makes sense to me, Spin!

    This may be why my kids all tell me that their friends are afraid of me.

    Hey! (swIdt?) I’m a real nice guy!

    I heard exactly the same from mine. It always surprised (but pleased) me.

    • #31
  2. RushBabe49 Thatcher
    RushBabe49
    @RushBabe49

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Terri Mauro (View Comment):
    Coolidge Terri Mauro @ TerriMauro 9 Minutes Ago

    As the parent of a kid with a developmental disability, I tend to look at everything through those glasses, and in this case I’d wonder if maybe the boy was autistic or had other neurological reasons for the outbursts.

    After I actually turned around and saw him, I wondered the same thing, Terri. So if I’d known, I might have made a different choice. Thanks for pointing out this possibility.

    I, too first thought this might be autistic behavior. There was such a child in the grocery store we shop at just last night, and the parents just ignored the outburst. What you respond to, you encourage.  Parents of autistic kids have unique challenges. 

    • #32
  3. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Spin (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    But I have a pet peeve, a real rottweiler of pet peeves, for kids who don’t respond to instruction and parents who tolerate their kids not responding to instruction. (So you’re saying there’s a reason your sons all moved out at or before 18?) That really bugs me.

    I volunteered in Sunday school one year. After that year was up I got a call from the Sunday school director. She asked if I could be counted on for the following year. I said “No, I don’t think I’m the right person for the job.” She asked me why, and I told her “I have a very low tolerance for kids who don’t do what they are told, when they are told.”

    She never asked me to help again. Oops!

    I did it too, for one very strange year. There was a section that we covered on cults, which since this was southern California in the Eighties, seemed like an extremely good idea. My pathway out from doing it the next year was that I moved out of state.

    • #33
  4. E. Kent Golding Moderator
    E. Kent Golding
    @EKentGolding

    BDB (View Comment):

    Good for you. Right down the middle, no issues.

    The child will forget. The parents will remember. Direct hit!

    The Child will remember. And it is good that the Child remembers.  You may have greatly increased that Child’s chance for a successful, responsible life.

    • #34
  5. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Terri Mauro (View Comment):

    As the parent of a kid with a developmental disability, I tend to look at everything through those glasses, and in this case I’d wonder if maybe the boy was autistic or had other neurological reasons for the outbursts. My son could sometimes be scared out of compulsive behaviors, so the fact that he stopped after you spoke to him doesn’t necessarily mean it was just bad behavior. Though it probably was just bad behavior—I’m not saying it wasn’t. Just that I tend to give parents a lot of benefit of the doubt because it can be hard to know what’s going on.

    My son’s particular annoying airplane behavior was kicking the seat in front, which he could very easily do while he was in a car seat. I often wondered what was more annoying for my unfortunate fellow passenger, him kicking or me constantly telling him to stop. Our best solution was to just make sure someone in our party was in that seat in front of him, and then he could kick all he wanted. He also very much enjoyed pulling the tray table up and down, up and down, up and down. A colorful picture taped over the latch was our solution to that.

    Worst time I ever had with a kid on a plane, though, was when we were bringing our kids home from Russia after adopting them. Our daughter, then 4 1/2 and having been in an orphanage for most of her life, had been an absolute champ all through our travels, apparently enchanted by suddenly having adults and toys and clothes and sneakers and all sorts of stuff that was all hers. Only problem came when were were finally, finally, hallelujah, landing back in the United States, and the stewardess demanded that all tray tables be secured. My daughter was coloring, and not interested in stopping that activity, and proceeded to wail. We didn’t speak her language, we couldn’t explain anything to her, and we couldn’t explain our situation to every passenger shooting daggers at us for letting a kid that old act that bad. That was a long landing.

    Wouldn’t “nyet” have sufficed?  I thought by now everyone knew at least “nyet.”

    • #35
  6. Terri Mauro Inactive
    Terri Mauro
    @TerriMauro

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Terri Mauro (View Comment):

    Worst time I ever had with a kid on a plane, though, was when we were bringing our kids home from Russia after adopting them. Our daughter, then 4 1/2 and having been in an orphanage for most of her life, had been an absolute champ all through our travels, apparently enchanted by suddenly having adults and toys and clothes and sneakers and all sorts of stuff that was all hers. Only problem came when were were finally, finally, hallelujah, landing back in the United States, and the stewardess demanded that all tray tables be secured. My daughter was coloring, and not interested in stopping that activity, and proceeded to wail. We didn’t speak her language, we couldn’t explain anything to her, and we couldn’t explain our situation to every passenger shooting daggers at us for letting a kid that old act that bad. That was a long landing.

    Wouldn’t “nyet” have sufficed? I thought by now everyone knew at least “nyet.”

    Yeah, nyet just meant “I now wish to deny you this pleasure you are enjoying,” and her response to this was also nyet. What she needed to understand was that this gigantic device we were on was actually up in the air, and was now going to go down to the ground, and it was a rule that was not our rule that she had to close the tray, and if she didn’t the stewardess was going to be quite cross with us all, and even if we’d known how to say that and she’d had the necessary Russian vocabulary, which due to disabilities and orphanage life she did not, there were a fair number of concepts involved that were so completely foreign to her existence that … there was just no way. Considering the extraordinary disruption this girlie had just gone through, it’s pretty amazing that this was the only time she really lost it. Might’ve been bigger than crayons.

    • #36
  7. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Terri Mauro (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Terri Mauro (View Comment):

    Worst time I ever had with a kid on a plane, though, was when we were bringing our kids home from Russia after adopting them. Our daughter, then 4 1/2 and having been in an orphanage for most of her life, had been an absolute champ all through our travels, apparently enchanted by suddenly having adults and toys and clothes and sneakers and all sorts of stuff that was all hers. Only problem came when were were finally, finally, hallelujah, landing back in the United States, and the stewardess demanded that all tray tables be secured. My daughter was coloring, and not interested in stopping that activity, and proceeded to wail. We didn’t speak her language, we couldn’t explain anything to her, and we couldn’t explain our situation to every passenger shooting daggers at us for letting a kid that old act that bad. That was a long landing.

    Wouldn’t “nyet” have sufficed? I thought by now everyone knew at least “nyet.”

    Yeah, nyet just meant “I now wish to deny you this pleasure you are enjoying,” and her response to this was also nyet. What she needed to understand was that this gigantic device we were on was actually up in the air, and was now going to go down to the ground, and it was a rule that was not our rule that she had to close the tray, and if she didn’t the stewardess was going to be quite cross with us all, and even if we’d known how to say that and she’d had the necessary Russian vocabulary, which due to disabilities and orphanage life she did not, there were a fair number of concepts involved that were so completely foreign to her existence that … there was just no way. Considering the extraordinary disruption this girlie had just gone through, it’s pretty amazing that this was the only time she really lost it. Might’ve been bigger than crayons.

    Hmm.  Did she never look out the window during takeoff or in flight?

    • #37
  8. Terri Mauro Inactive
    Terri Mauro
    @TerriMauro

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Hmm.  Did she never look out the window during takeoff or in flight?

    Actually, we were sitting in the middle of a plane with two aisles, so maybe not. And even if … her life experience had really been severely limited to that point, and she had some neurological issues on top of that. It was like 28 years ago, so I really don’t remember exactly what we said to her about the plane, but I don’t know that she could have grasped the concept of flight to a significant degree. And if she had, it might have freaked her the hell out. 

    • #38
  9. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Spin (View Comment):

    Similar story. My wife, daughter and I were having lunch in the Fairway Cafe. You may have heard of this place, as it made statewide, if not national news….wait let me just see….no I think just statewide news…for refusing to implement the governor’s COVID restrictions.

    Anyway, my wife, daughter and I were having lunch there just a week or so ago. These three adult women were at another table, close by, and they kept erupting in cackling laughter. It was so loud that we literally could not talk to our server without shouting. I was “this close” to hollering at them “shut the f*** up!”, I mean I was about to say it, when they got up and left.

    Some people really don’t have consideration for others. I think you did well in your circumstance. Better than I was about to.

    When I go out to lunch with my mom she is often annoyed by groups of lunching women. 

    Honestly, why can’t they just look at their phones like everyone else? 

    • #39
  10. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    EB (View Comment):
    I could tell them why they’re doing it – because you are lazy or ineffectual parents/owners and haven’t trained them. I could – but it wouldn’t do any good.

    You are absolutely right, for the reasons you state. We had a dog we loved to dog-sit, and she was great with us. And when she went home, she’d get into her usual mischief. It amazes me the number of people who, with children and pets, are unwilling to show discipline. I just don’t get it. Can they all be lazy and ineffectual, EB?

    They hate being the ‘bad guy’ and that means they will raise bad pets and children. 

    • #40
  11. Chuck Coolidge
    Chuck
    @Chuckles

    An earlier generation used the phrase “Children are to be seen and not heard.”

    Nowadays they seem to think they are adults when they are still just children.

     

    • #41
  12. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Terri Mauro (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Hmm. Did she never look out the window during takeoff or in flight?

    Actually, we were sitting in the middle of a plane with two aisles, so maybe not. And even if … her life experience had really been severely limited to that point, and she had some neurological issues on top of that. It was like 28 years ago, so I really don’t remember exactly what we said to her about the plane, but I don’t know that she could have grasped the concept of flight to a significant degree. And if she had, it might have freaked her the hell out.

    I had thought about that possibility too.  All things considered you probably had the best possible outcome.  Especially since there were no problems until the end.

    • #42
  13. Terri Mauro Inactive
    Terri Mauro
    @TerriMauro

    kedavis (View Comment):

    I had thought about that possibility too.  All things considered you probably had the best possible outcome.  Especially since there were no problems until the end.

    Yeah, we got lucky. I was sure my son, who was 21 months old and had just been sprung from life in playpen prison, was going to be impossible, but he fell asleep immediately and slumbered the whole way. So we were just The Family from Hell for descent and landing.

    • #43
  14. Al Sparks Coolidge
    Al Sparks
    @AlSparks

    I also have not raised kids.  But I’ve been one.  Since I was born in the late 50’s, I grew up when riding an airplane was unusual for kids.  I’d say I probably rode an airplane maybe 3-4 times in my life by the time I was twenty.  I was 22 when I traveled by air as an adult for the first time, and I was headed for boot camp.  Air travel just wasn’t that common because it was more expensive.

    I was expected to behave around adults, and those behavioral standards were heavily enforced.  I never called an adult by their first names until I had a job, say around sixteen.   On the other hand, I had plenty of away time from adults, back when the term free range kids hadn’t yet been coined, but it was the practice.  I could play outside with other kids without adult supervision and go nuts.

    I have a theory that kids are so supervised now, that the typical parent doesn’t try as hard to make their kids behave.  They’re worn out with the increased exposure.

    I wonder about taking kids on airplanes who are so young they won’t remember that trip to Disneyland.  Even by my standards, there’s still going to be a need to bring kids on airplanes.  But the fact that they are flying so often means it isn’t special anymore, and that adds to them acting their normal kid selves when flying.

    • #44
  15. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Al Sparks (View Comment):

    I also have not raised kids. But I’ve been one. Since I was born in the late 50’s, I grew up when riding an airplane was unusual for kids. I’d say I probably rode an airplane maybe 3-4 times in my life by the time I was twenty. I was 22 when I traveled by air as an adult for the first time, and I was headed for boot camp. Air travel just wasn’t that common because it was more expensive.

    I was expected to behave around adults, and those behavioral standards were heavily enforced. I never called an adult by their first names until I had a job, say around sixteen. On the other hand, I had plenty of away time from adults, back when the term free range kids hadn’t yet been coined, but it was the practice. I could play outside with other kids without adult supervision and go nuts.

    I have a theory that kids are so supervised now, that the typical parent doesn’t try as hard to make their kids behave. They’re worn out with the increased exposure.

    I wonder about taking kids on airplanes who are so young they won’t remember that trip to Disneyland. Even by my standards, there’s still going to be a need to bring kids on airplanes. But the fact that they are flying so often means it isn’t special anymore, and that adds to them acting their normal kid selves when flying.

    Not all of them are going to Disneyland. Some of them are going to see Grandma and Grandpa. They won’t remember that either, but Grandma and Grandpa will.

    • #45
  16. Al Sparks Coolidge
    Al Sparks
    @AlSparks

    Percival (View Comment):
    Not all of them are going to Disneyland. Some of them are going to see Grandma and Grandpa. They won’t remember that either, but Grandma and Grandpa will.

    With the usual caveats on whether grandparents are healthy enough to travel, buy them the ticket to travel and see their grandchild.  It’s easier on the parents and the child.

    • #46
  17. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Al Sparks (View Comment):

    I have a theory that kids are so supervised now, that the typical parent doesn’t try as hard to make their kids behave.  They’re worn out with the increased exposure.

    I wonder about taking kids on airplanes who are so young they won’t remember that trip to Disneyland.  Even by my standards, there’s still going to be a need to bring kids on airplanes.  But the fact that they are flying so often means it isn’t special anymore, and that adds to them acting their normal kid selves when flying.

    All thoughtful observations, Al. I remember going on my first plane trip–at 15, when I was going to visit grandparents and other relatives, CA to MA, for the first time. It was quite a while before I flew again. 

    • #47
  18. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

    I think it’s mostly generational.    A lot of parents these days don’t seem to realize what a parent is.   There is one difference my limited exposure to kids and parents seems to indicate.   Big families produce different kinds of kids.  I’ve decided big families are superior.

    • #48
  19. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

    Spin (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Spin (View Comment):
    “I have a very low tolerance for kids who don’t do what they are told, when they are told.”

    Makes sense to me, Spin!

    This may be why my kids all tell me that their friends are afraid of me.

    Hey! (swIdt?) I’m a real nice guy!

    My friends were all afraid of my father.  He was a fishing, skiing, sports fan for us, but we didn’t fool around either.  Some people just have authority and I don’t know why.  It’s valuable.

    • #49
  20. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Al Sparks (View Comment):

    I have a theory that kids are so supervised now, that the typical parent doesn’t try as hard to make their kids behave. They’re worn out with the increased exposure.

    I wonder about taking kids on airplanes who are so young they won’t remember that trip to Disneyland. Even by my standards, there’s still going to be a need to bring kids on airplanes. But the fact that they are flying so often means it isn’t special anymore, and that adds to them acting their normal kid selves when flying.

    All thoughtful observations, Al. I remember going on my first plane trip–at 15, when I was going to visit grandparents and other relatives, CA to MA, for the first time. It was quite a while before I flew again.

    My first flight was when I flew from Chicago to Columbus on my own at the age of ten. The airline kept an eye on me, establishing a pattern that has been maintained for fifty years now.

    • #50
  21. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Percival (View Comment):
    My first flight was when I flew from Chicago to Columbus on my own at the age of ten. The airline kept an eye on me, establishing a pattern that has been maintained for fifty years now.

    I’d keep an eye on you, too, if I were them . . . 

    • #51
  22. Old Bathos Member
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    Percival (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Al Sparks (View Comment):

    I have a theory that kids are so supervised now, that the typical parent doesn’t try as hard to make their kids behave. They’re worn out with the increased exposure.

    I wonder about taking kids on airplanes who are so young they won’t remember that trip to Disneyland. Even by my standards, there’s still going to be a need to bring kids on airplanes. But the fact that they are flying so often means it isn’t special anymore, and that adds to them acting their normal kid selves when flying.

    All thoughtful observations, Al. I remember going on my first plane trip–at 15, when I was going to visit grandparents and other relatives, CA to MA, for the first time. It was quite a while before I flew again.

    My first flight was when I flew from Chicago to Columbus on my own at the age of ten. The airline kept an eye on me, establishing a pattern that has been maintained for fifty years now.

    I was around 5 or six when I was on a plane for the first time.  My great aunt took me from Miami to New York on PanAm.  For years she told the story about how I said I was sure I saw some angels sitting on top of the clouds and a man across the aisle got upset when he heard that because he apparently took it as an omen of some kind and required attention from the stewardesses. 

    • #52
  23. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Old Bathos (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Al Sparks (View Comment):

    I have a theory that kids are so supervised now, that the typical parent doesn’t try as hard to make their kids behave. They’re worn out with the increased exposure.

    I wonder about taking kids on airplanes who are so young they won’t remember that trip to Disneyland. Even by my standards, there’s still going to be a need to bring kids on airplanes. But the fact that they are flying so often means it isn’t special anymore, and that adds to them acting their normal kid selves when flying.

    All thoughtful observations, Al. I remember going on my first plane trip–at 15, when I was going to visit grandparents and other relatives, CA to MA, for the first time. It was quite a while before I flew again.

    My first flight was when I flew from Chicago to Columbus on my own at the age of ten. The airline kept an eye on me, establishing a pattern that has been maintained for fifty years now.

    I was around 5 or six when I was on a plane for the first time. My great aunt took me from Miami to New York on PanAm. For years she told the story about how I said I was sure I saw some angels sitting on top of the clouds and a man across the aisle got upset when he heard that because he apparently took it as an omen of some kind and required attention from the stewardesses.

    My first plane ride was when I was 16.  We took off one sunny afternoon.  I never did land in it.  

    • #53
  24. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    I never did land in it.  

    ??

    • #54
  25. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    I never did land in it.

    ??

    I assume his first flight was to parachute out. 

    • #55
  26. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    I never did land in it.

    ??

    I assume his first flight was to parachute out.

    Yup.  First time up I jumped out.  At one time my record was 5 take offs, no landings…

    I was in my 20s before I actually flew commercially anywhere like everybody else.  We were too poor to fly much when I was young.

    • #56
  27. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Al Sparks (View Comment):
    Since I was born in the late 50’s, I grew up when riding an airplane was unusual for kids. 

    I was born in 1956, and I did fly as a kid many times (with my parents) to visit my grandparents in Florida from our home in California. The days when only the relatively wealthy and/or high income flew, and everybody dressed up, as flying was an occasion. My brother and I were always dressed in dress shirts with tie and jacket for the flight. That helped instill an expectation of behavior on us. 

    The good news about the commonality of flying these days is that if the children start flying early, they can learn proper airplane behavior at an early age. 

    Our 5 year old grandson was on several flights in his first three years, all to visit son-in-law’s large family that collectively live near each other but a long way from our daughter and son-in-law. Covid stopped those visits, and so our 2.5 year old granddaughter had not flown until a couple of weeks ago. She had a blast on the plane, well occupied by her mother (our daughter) with books and drawing supplies (and she found looking out the window entertaining). Fortunately our grandson remembered from 2+ years ago how to behave. Also, our daughter and son-in-law deliberately scheduled the flights at times when the children would be less fidgety, and scheduled relatively lengthy layovers at the flight transfer ports so the children could burn off some energy between flight segments. 

    • #57
  28. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    At the moment we are also dealing with the consequences of two years of no or limited socialization among people, especially children. Teachers tell us that children (depending on age) either have not learned how to behave around other people, or have forgotten how to behave around other people. So we may have to do more work to teach or remind children around us of community standards for behavior. (Many adults have also forgotten how to behave, but that may be a more intractable problem.)

    • #58
  29. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    The mother could have totally have disarmed you by saying, “Thank you! We are really struggling to teach him boundaries. Other people letting him know when he has crossed a line is very important.” Socialization is all about learning about boundaries, and understanding that boundaries are different in crowded public spaces as compared to home.

    • #59
  30. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    My middle sister, observing an out of control brat with indulgent/passive parents, commented to my other sisters “I don’t recall we had the option.” 

    We did not.

    • #60
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