Come Back with a Washing Machine

 

Polish Anti-War Activists staged a protest outside the Russian Embassy in Warsaw. Russian soldiers have been looting household appliances in Ukraine. They are doing more than that. Rape appears to be in the Russian arsenal as well as execution-style killings of civilians, and targeting hospitals, residences, and schools. Photo from Radio Free Europe:

An illustrated placard with the words “Come back with a washing machine,” humorously alluding to alleged looting by Russian troops in Ukraine.

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  1. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Not exactly the Sparta women’s admonishment to their men: “come back with your shield-or on it” but probably closer to the truth in Russia. 

    • #1
  2. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Doug Watt: Polish Anti-War Activists staged a protest outside the Russian Embassy in Warsaw. Russian soldiers have been looting household appliances in Ukraine. They are doing more than that. Rape appears to be in the Russian arsenal as well as execution style killings of civilians, and targeting hospitals, residences, and schools.

    The latest video from the 1420 channel has a question posed to Russian men on the streets of Moscow: “Would you rape [a] Ukrainian woman?”

    Nobody said yes, but there was a variety of responses to the question. It does give clues as to what kind of information is getting through to Russia.  Another question was asked at the end about a story in a British newspaper about British men offering their beds to Ukrainian woman refugees.   

    One thing that was a little different about this particular 1420 video was the number of respondents who weren’t afraid to use the word “war” in their response, instead of “special military operation.”  There is always somebody who calls it a war, even though he/she can get in trouble for using that word. But this time that word was used a lot.  (It could of course be a matter of sampling bias. Best not to draw premature conclusions.) 

     

    • #2
  3. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    “Come back with a washing machine or in it” just doesn’t have quite the same catchy ring to it, although I’m sure one could work “Molon labe” into this.

    • #3
  4. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: Polish Anti-War Activists staged a protest outside the Russian Embassy in Warsaw. Russian soldiers have been looting household appliances in Ukraine. They are doing more than that. Rape appears to be in the Russian arsenal as well as execution style killings of civilians, and targeting hospitals, residences, and schools.

    The latest video from the 1420 channel has a question posed to Russian men on the streets of Moscow: “Would you rape [a] Ukrainian woman?”

    Nobody said yes, but there was a variety of responses to the question. It does give clues as to what kind of information is getting through to Russia. Another question was asked at the end about a story in a British newspaper about British men offering their beds to Ukrainian woman refugees.

    One thing that was a little different about this particular 1420 video was the number of respondents who weren’t afraid to use the word “war” in their response, instead of “special military operation.” There is always somebody who calls it a war, even though he/she can get in trouble for using that word. But this time that word was used a lot. (It could of course be a matter of sampling bias. Best not to draw premature conclusions.)

    There’s no way we can know what is the truth over there.  Both the Ukraine and the Russians are fully engaged in heavy propaganda and that includes a lot of lying.

    It’s too bad j-urinalists aren’t asking that question of Russian soldiers in the Ukraine.

    • #4
  5. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Skyler (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: Polish Anti-War Activists staged a protest outside the Russian Embassy in Warsaw. Russian soldiers have been looting household appliances in Ukraine. They are doing more than that. Rape appears to be in the Russian arsenal as well as execution style killings of civilians, and targeting hospitals, residences, and schools.

    The latest video from the 1420 channel has a question posed to Russian men on the streets of Moscow: “Would you rape [a] Ukrainian woman?”

    Nobody said yes, but there was a variety of responses to the question. It does give clues as to what kind of information is getting through to Russia. Another question was asked at the end about a story in a British newspaper about British men offering their beds to Ukrainian woman refugees.

    One thing that was a little different about this particular 1420 video was the number of respondents who weren’t afraid to use the word “war” in their response, instead of “special military operation.” There is always somebody who calls it a war, even though he/she can get in trouble for using that word. But this time that word was used a lot. (It could of course be a matter of sampling bias. Best not to draw premature conclusions.)

    There’s no way we can know what is the truth over there. Both the Ukraine and the Russians are fully engaged in heavy propaganda and that includes a lot of lying.

    It’s too bad j-urinalists aren’t asking that question of Russian soldiers in the Ukraine.

    Considering many of the Russians soldiers would probably lie too, what would be the value in asking them?

    • #5
  6. ToryWarWriter Thatcher
    ToryWarWriter
    @ToryWarWriter

    Its nice confession by projection.

    Apparently Ukrainians think Russians are so poor that they would use their precious military logistics to haul away appliances back home.  Cause they dont have any.  Russia is a major world power, they dont need to go to Ukraine and steal their cheap electronics and washing machines.  

    Its pretty much a joke, to anyone who knows anything about whats really going on in this conflict.

    I think its pretty sad that people on Ricochet are so ignorant to think this is true.  So blinded by sheer ignorant bigotry that they are willing to believe any nonsense that they are told about the enemy.  

    Reminds me of all those who bought the covid fearmongering.  

    Here is a link to an ex Navy Seal who is currently in Mariupul.  He is bringing back footage and interviews from the people in the city.  I can guarantee that he would never be allowed on Radio Free Europe though.

    If you got any guts to watch and listen to these people and their stories.  Watch it.

    https://youtu.be/zlokJAUKhFE

     

     

     

    • #6
  7. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    Its nice confession by projection.

    Apparently Ukrainians think Russians are so poor that they would use their precious military logistics to haul away appliances back home. Cause they dont have any. Russia is a major world power, they dont need to go to Ukraine and steal their cheap electronics and washing machines.

    Its pretty much a joke, to anyone who knows anything about whats really going on in this conflict.

    I think its pretty sad that people on Ricochet are so ignorant to think this is true. So blinded by sheer ignorant bigotry that they are willing to believe any nonsense that they are told about the enemy.

    Reminds me of all those who bought the covid fearmongering.

    Here is a link to an ex Navy Seal who is currently in Mariupul. He is bringing back footage and interviews from the people in the city. I can guarantee that he would never be allowed on Radio Free Europe though.

    If you got any guts to watch and listen to these people and their stories. Watch it.

    https://youtu.be/zlokJAUKhFE

    We still don’t know what is true.  How do you even know this guy is a SEAL?

    • #7
  8. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Skyler (View Comment):

    There’s no way we can know what is the truth over there.  Both the Ukraine and the Russians are fully engaged in heavy propaganda and that includes a lot of lying.

    You won’t know if you don’t try.   Everybody lies and uses propaganda in every war. That doesn’t mean we can’t find out enough of the truth to know what to do.  

    Just saying, “everbody is lying” is a copout.  It’s like saying, “the sky is blue, so I don’t know what to believe.”  Sure, you do.  Maybe not about every last item, but you know enough.   

     

    • #8
  9. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    Its nice confession by projection.

    Apparently Ukrainians think Russians are so poor that they would use their precious military logistics to haul away appliances back home.  Cause they dont have any. 

    Not in the poor rural areas, no. Russia produces washing machines under license from other companies, but they’re sold to Eastern European markets and the urban centers. The vatniki who signed up to get out of Mudgrad probably don’t have a nice new LG in the house. Hence, perhaps,  the pictures of bombed-out Russian transports with charred remains of washing machines. Which, of course, could be totally photoshopped.

    Russia is a major world power, they dont need to go to Ukraine and steal their cheap electronics and washing machines.  

    They’re a world power because they have nukes and gas; this does not translate to general consumer prosperity.

    I think its pretty sad that people on Ricochet are so ignorant to think this is true.  So blinded by sheer ignorant bigotry that they are willing to believe any nonsense that they are told about the enemy.  

    Well, in the interest of full-spectrum discourse, it’s good that the Russian soldiers have someone to plead their case.

    • #9
  10. drlorentz Member
    drlorentz
    @drlorentz

    I detect widespread Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect on this thread. “The corporate press lies about subjects concerning which I think I have some esoteric knowledge but is totally reliable otherwise, especially if it reinforces my prejudices.” There’s also a fair amount of Cold War nostalgia, topped with a dollop of ignorance about the region’s history.

    ”We had to destroy Ukraine to save it.”

    • #10
  11. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    There’s no way we can know what is the truth over there. Both the Ukraine and the Russians are fully engaged in heavy propaganda and that includes a lot of lying.

    You won’t know if you don’t try. Everybody lies and uses propaganda in every war. That doesn’t mean we can’t find out enough of the truth to know what to do.

    Just saying, “everbody is lying” is a copout. It’s like saying, “the sky is blue, so I don’t know what to believe.” Sure, you do. Maybe not about every last item, but you know enough.

     

    It’s not a cop out.  I’m saying that we can’t trust the media.  We can’t trust the Russians.  We can’t trust the Ukrainians.  Until there is a resolution to this, I won’t even say we know that the Ukraine has even been invaded, though it does seem likely and my wife has Ukrainian friends who seem to indicate at least that much is true.  We are lied to constantly nowadays by the press.  The truth is that the Ukraine has no significance to our lives unless this purported war expands.  Until it does, it’s mostly just interesting and not too important.

     

    • #11
  12. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Skyler (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    There’s no way we can know what is the truth over there. Both the Ukraine and the Russians are fully engaged in heavy propaganda and that includes a lot of lying.

    You won’t know if you don’t try. Everybody lies and uses propaganda in every war. That doesn’t mean we can’t find out enough of the truth to know what to do.

    Just saying, “everbody is lying” is a copout. It’s like saying, “the sky is blue, so I don’t know what to believe.” Sure, you do. Maybe not about every last item, but you know enough.

     

    It’s not a cop out. I’m saying that we can’t trust the media. We can’t trust the Russians. We can’t trust the Ukrainians. Until there is a resolution to this, I won’t even say we know that the Ukraine has even been invaded, though it does seem likely and my wife has Ukrainian friends who seem to indicate at least that much is true. We are lied to constantly nowadays by the press. The truth is that the Ukraine has no significance to our lives unless this purported war expands. Until it does, it’s mostly just interesting and not too important.

     

    This.

    1. Russia announces the Moskva caught fire. They sort of have to: recon sattelites were on station.
    2. Ukraine announces that they hit the Moskva with Neptune missiles. I know something about the Soviet-era Kh-35 upon which the Neptune is based. Against a cruiser, the Kh-35 wouldn’t be a ship-killer, but it would do some damage, maybe enough. 
    3. Russia denies that hostile action is involved. The fire in the ammunition spaces was just one of those things, ya know?
    4. Russia hits the facility where Neptune missiles are produced.

    With that last action, the credibility of the Ukrainian claim goes way up.

    • #12
  13. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    Its nice confession by projection.

    Apparently Ukrainians think Russians are so poor that they would use their precious military logistics to haul away appliances back home. Cause they dont have any. Russia is a major world power, they dont need to go to Ukraine and steal their cheap electronics and washing machines.

    Its pretty much a joke, to anyone who knows anything about whats really going on in this conflict.

    I think its pretty sad that people on Ricochet are so ignorant to think this is true. So blinded by sheer ignorant bigotry that they are willing to believe any nonsense that they are told about the enemy.

    Reminds me of all those who bought the covid fearmongering.

    Here is a link to an ex Navy Seal who is currently in Mariupul. He is bringing back footage and interviews from the people in the city. I can guarantee that he would never be allowed on Radio Free Europe though.

    If you got any guts to watch and listen to these people and their stories. Watch it.

    https://youtu.be/zlokJAUKhFE

    Never would happen-umpossible:

    maybe hard to see with this resolution but in the original it is clearly a load of washing machines in an ambushed Russian truck….I doubt it was a delivery but maybe it is part of denazifying Ukraine. Perhaps in Cyrillic Nazi looks a lot like Maytag…..

    • #13
  14. American Abroad Thatcher
    American Abroad
    @AmericanAbroad

    The Red Army comprehensively looted East Germany in 1945, including taking train loads of basic consumer goods like furniture and wristwatches back to the Soviet Union.  License to loot and rape is basically the generous benefits package offered to Russia’s common soldiery to make up for the abysmally low salaries and poor service conditions.

    • #14
  15. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    American Abroad (View Comment):

    The Red Army comprehensively looted East Germany in 1945, including taking train loads of basic consumer goods like furniture and wristwatches back to the Soviet Union. License to loot and rape is basically the generous benefits package offered to Russia’s common soldiery to make up for the abysmally low salaries and poor service conditions.

    And it was encouraged at the highest levels- supposedly Stalin pointed at Silesia on a map in 1945 and said “gold” b/c of all the valuable industry that could be carted off- as “reparations” altho it was then made part of Poland after Stalin had it looted- so he was looting an Allie.

    • #15
  16. American Abroad Thatcher
    American Abroad
    @AmericanAbroad

    MiMac (View Comment):

    American Abroad (View Comment):

    The Red Army comprehensively looted East Germany in 1945, including taking train loads of basic consumer goods like furniture and wristwatches back to the Soviet Union. License to loot and rape is basically the generous benefits package offered to Russia’s common soldiery to make up for the abysmally low salaries and poor service conditions.

    And it was encouraged at the highest levels- supposedly Stalin pointed at Silesia on a map in 1945 and said “gold” b/c of all the valuable industry that could be carted off- as “reparations” altho it was then made part of Poland after Stalin had it looted- so he was looting an Allie.

    Poland was a Soviet ally in name only, but really just another Soviet colony to be plundered.

    • #16
  17. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    Its nice confession by projection.

    Apparently Ukrainians think Russians are so poor that they would use their precious military logistics to haul away appliances back home. Cause they dont have any.

    Not in the poor rural areas, no. Russia produces washing machines under license from other companies, but they’re sold to Eastern European markets and the urban centers. The vatniki who signed up to get out of Mudgrad probably don’t have a nice new LG in the house. Hence, perhaps, the pictures of bombed-out Russian transports with charred remains of washing machines. Which, of course, could be totally photoshopped.

    Russia is a major world power, they dont need to go to Ukraine and steal their cheap electronics and washing machines.

    They’re a world power because they have nukes and gas; this does not translate to general consumer prosperity.

    I think its pretty sad that people on Ricochet are so ignorant to think this is true. So blinded by sheer ignorant bigotry that they are willing to believe any nonsense that they are told about the enemy.

    Well, in the interest of full-spectrum discourse, it’s good that the Russian soldiers have someone to plead their case.

    I must admit that I was a bit surprised to see that a washing machine was worth carrying back to Russia. Russia does have a pretty high level of consumer prosperity, or did before the sanctions.  It’s not like in the Soviet days. Of course, my view of prosperity comes from movies, advertising of consumer goods on Russian TV, cruising the streets of Russian cities in Google Streetview, looking at the store fronts and the advertising billboards, and from all of the Russian video bloggers who go shopping in Russian stores.

    Of course, once you get out of the largest urban centers nobody would mistake the country for the U.S. or western Europe. My wife and I have watched some of the bloggers in Ukraine and Russia raise their personal standards of living significantly off of a few years of YouTube and Patreon revenue, which tells you something in itself, because video bloggers in the U.S. with similar followings can barely get by if they try to live off of that revenue. 

    The general run of Russian soldiers might not represent Russia as a whole, though. It seems that draft evasion is high among the types of people we watch on YouTube. They are from a different socio-economic class.  And the villages definitely don’t have as high a standard of living.  Most of the villages don’t have people of child-bearing (soldier-making) age, but there are other ways and places to be poor in russia. 

    So in summary, I don’t think a washing machine would be quite the prize for most Russians as it was for a few of the young men in the army, but after reflection I am also not too surprised that it’s worth looting for some of those people.

    • #17
  18. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    Its nice confession by projection.

    Apparently Ukrainians think Russians are so poor that they would use their precious military logistics to haul away appliances back home. Cause they dont have any.

    Not in the poor rural areas, no. Russia produces washing machines under license from other companies, but they’re sold to Eastern European markets and the urban centers. The vatniki who signed up to get out of Mudgrad probably don’t have a nice new LG in the house. Hence, perhaps, the pictures of bombed-out Russian transports with charred remains of washing machines. Which, of course, could be totally photoshopped.

    Russia is a major world power, they dont need to go to Ukraine and steal their cheap electronics and washing machines.

    They’re a world power because they have nukes and gas; this does not translate to general consumer prosperity.

    I think its pretty sad that people on Ricochet are so ignorant to think this is true. So blinded by sheer ignorant bigotry that they are willing to believe any nonsense that they are told about the enemy.

    Well, in the interest of full-spectrum discourse, it’s good that the Russian soldiers have someone to plead their case.

    I must admit that I was a bit surprised to see that a washing machine was worth carrying back to Russia. Russia does have a pretty high level of consumer prosperity, or did before the sanctions. It’s not like in the Soviet days. Of course, my view of prosperity comes from movies, advertising of consumer goods on Russian TV, cruising the streets of Russian cities in Google Streetview, looking at the store fronts and the advertising billboards, and from all of the Russian video bloggers who go shopping in Russian stores.

    Of course, once you get out of the largest urban centers nobody would mistake the country for the U.S. or western Europe. My wife and I have watched some of the bloggers in Ukraine and Russia raise their personal standards of living significantly off of a few years of YouTube and Patreon revenue, which tells you something in itself, because video bloggers in the U.S. with similar followings can barely get by if they try to live off of that revenue.

    The general run of Russian soldiers might not represent Russia as a whole, though. It seems that draft evasion is high among the types of people we watch on YouTube. They are from a different socio-economic class. And the villages definitely don’t have as high a standard of living. Most of the villages don’t have people of child-bearing (soldier-making) age, but there are other ways and places to be poor in russia.

    So in summary, I don’t think a washing machine would be quite the prize for most Russians as it was for a few of the young men in the army, but after reflection I am also not too surprised that it’s worth looting for some of those people.

    All the better, more portable stuff gets looted first. Someone else got the TV sets.

    • #18
  19. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Percival (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    Its nice confession by projection.

    Apparently Ukrainians think Russians are so poor that they would use their precious military logistics to haul away appliances back home. Cause they dont have any.

    Not in the poor rural areas, no. Russia produces washing machines under license from other companies, but they’re sold to Eastern European markets and the urban centers. The vatniki who signed up to get out of Mudgrad probably don’t have a nice new LG in the house. Hence, perhaps, the pictures of bombed-out Russian transports with charred remains of washing machines. Which, of course, could be totally photoshopped.

    Russia is a major world power, they dont need to go to Ukraine and steal their cheap electronics and washing machines.

    They’re a world power because they have nukes and gas; this does not translate to general consumer prosperity.

    I think its pretty sad that people on Ricochet are so ignorant to think this is true. So blinded by sheer ignorant bigotry that they are willing to believe any nonsense that they are told about the enemy.

    Well, in the interest of full-spectrum discourse, it’s good that the Russian soldiers have someone to plead their case.

    I must admit that I was a bit surprised to see that a washing machine was worth carrying back to Russia. Russia does have a pretty high level of consumer prosperity, or did before the sanctions. It’s not like in the Soviet days. Of course, my view of prosperity comes from movies, advertising of consumer goods on Russian TV, cruising the streets of Russian cities in Google Streetview, looking at the store fronts and the advertising billboards, and from all of the Russian video bloggers who go shopping in Russian stores.

    Of course, once you get out of the largest urban centers nobody would mistake the country for the U.S. or western Europe. My wife and I have watched some of the bloggers in Ukraine and Russia raise their personal standards of living significantly off of a few years of YouTube and Patreon revenue, which tells you something in itself, because video bloggers in the U.S. with similar followings can barely get by if they try to live off of that revenue.

    The general run of Russian soldiers might not represent Russia as a whole, though. It seems that draft evasion is high among the types of people we watch on YouTube. They are from a different socio-economic class. And the villages definitely don’t have as high a standard of living. Most of the villages don’t have people of child-bearing (soldier-making) age, but there are other ways and places to be poor in russia.

    So in summary, I don’t think a washing machine would be quite the prize for most Russians as it was for a few of the young men in the army, but after reflection I am also not too surprised that it’s worth looting for some of those people.

    All the better, more portable stuff gets looted first. Someone else got the TV sets.

    Yeah, we should know that from all the antifa looting. 

    • #19
  20. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    They’re a world power because they have nukes and gas; this does not translate to general consumer prosperity.

    I think its pretty sad that people on Ricochet are so ignorant to think this is true. So blinded by sheer ignorant bigotry that they are willing to believe any nonsense that they are told about the enemy.

    Well, in the interest of full-spectrum discourse, it’s good that the Russian soldiers have someone to plead their case.

    I must admit that I was a bit surprised to see that a washing machine was worth carrying back to Russia. Russia does have a pretty high level of consumer prosperity, or did before the sanctions. It’s not like in the Soviet days. Of course, my view of prosperity comes from movies, advertising of consumer goods on Russian TV, cruising the streets of Russian cities in Google Streetview, looking at the store fronts and the advertising billboards, and from all of the Russian video bloggers who go shopping in Russian stores.

    Of course, once you get out of the largest urban centers nobody would mistake the country for the U.S. or western Europe. My wife and I have watched some of the bloggers in Ukraine and Russia raise their personal standards of living significantly off of a few years of YouTube and Patreon revenue, which tells you something in itself, because video bloggers in the U.S. with similar followings can barely get by if they try to live off of that revenue.

    The general run of Russian soldiers might not represent Russia as a whole, though. It seems that draft evasion is high among the types of people we watch on YouTube. They are from a different socio-economic class. And the villages definitely don’t have as high a standard of living. Most of the villages don’t have people of child-bearing (soldier-making) age, but there are other ways and places to be poor in russia.

    So in summary, I don’t think a washing machine would be quite the prize for most Russians as it was for a few of the young men in the army, but after reflection I am also not too surprised that it’s worth looting for some of those people.

    All the better, more portable stuff gets looted first. Someone else got the TV sets.

    Yeah, we should know that from all the antifa looting.

    If Ukraine has Nike stores they’re REALLY in trouble!

    • #20
  21. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    drlorentz (View Comment):

    I detect widespread Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect on this thread. “The corporate press lies about subjects concerning which I think I have some esoteric knowledge but is totally reliable otherwise, especially if it reinforces my prejudices.” There’s also a fair amount of Cold War nostalgia, topped with a dollop of ignorance about the region’s history.

    ”We had to destroy Ukraine to save it.”

    Gell-Mann Amnesia and reinforces my prejudices are actually opposed effects.  If you say the reporting is bad, most likely you are saying it because it disagrees with your preferences and experience.   For example, I know the corporate media does not know anything about most scientific topics, but there is usually something behind the story if you do any digging.   If there is a report that Russian gas producers were funding Green movements in the EU, do I believe it because I actually think it is valid or because of my view that Greens are corrupt watermelons?   Should I refuse to believe it based on the source even it is normally believable?

    It’s not like your sources are necessarily better.

    • #21
  22. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    Its nice confession by projection.

    Apparently Ukrainians think Russians are so poor that they would use their precious military logistics to haul away appliances back home. Cause they dont have any.

    Not in the poor rural areas, no. Russia produces washing machines under license from other companies, but they’re sold to Eastern European markets and the urban centers. The vatniki who signed up to get out of Mudgrad probably don’t have a nice new LG in the house. Hence, perhaps, the pictures of bombed-out Russian transports with charred remains of washing machines. Which, of course, could be totally photoshopped.

    Russia is a major world power, they dont need to go to Ukraine and steal their cheap electronics and washing machines.

    They’re a world power because they have nukes and gas; this does not translate to general consumer prosperity.

    I think its pretty sad that people on Ricochet are so ignorant to think this is true. So blinded by sheer ignorant bigotry that they are willing to believe any nonsense that they are told about the enemy.

    Well, in the interest of full-spectrum discourse, it’s good that the Russian soldiers have someone to plead their case.

    I must admit that I was a bit surprised to see that a washing machine was worth carrying back to Russia. Russia does have a pretty high level of consumer prosperity, or did before the sanctions. It’s not like in the Soviet days. Of course, my view of prosperity comes from movies, advertising of consumer goods on Russian TV, cruising the streets of Russian cities in Google Streetview, looking at the store fronts and the advertising billboards, and from all of the Russian video bloggers who go shopping in Russian stores.

    Of course, once you get out of the largest urban centers nobody would mistake the country for the U.S. or western Europe. My wife and I have watched some of the bloggers in Ukraine and Russia raise their personal standards of living significantly off of a few years of YouTube and Patreon revenue, which tells you something in itself, because video bloggers in the U.S. with similar followings can barely get by if they try to live off of that revenue.

    The general run of Russian soldiers might not represent Russia as a whole, though. It seems that draft evasion is high among the types of people we watch on YouTube. They are from a different socio-economic class. And the villages definitely don’t have as high a standard of living. Most of the villages don’t have people of child-bearing (soldier-making) age, but there are other ways and places to be poor in russia.

    So in summary, I don’t think a washing machine would be quite the prize for most Russians as it was for a few of the young men in the army, but after reflection I am also not too surprised that it’s worth looting for some of those people.

    One of my friends who visited Russia described the poverty away from the cities as pretty severe.  Imagine if we conscripted people from Appalachia or urban ghettos, gave them some less than effective training (I heard this before it was a media issue), and sent them into a combat zone. 

    • #22
  23. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):
    One of my friends who visited Russia described the poverty away from the cities as pretty severe.  Imagine if we conscripted people from Appalachia or urban ghettos, gave them some less than effective training (I heard this before it was a media issue), and sent them into a combat zone. 

    Probably not great, although I suspect most people in Appalachia (and/or urban ghettos, for that matter) already have some experience with guns.

    • #23
  24. Bob W Member
    Bob W
    @BobW

    One of my friends who visited Russia described the poverty away from the cities as pretty severe. Imagine if we conscripted people from Appalachia or urban ghettos, gave them some less than effective training (I heard this before it was a media issue), and sent them into a combat zone.

    I visited Russia, it’s been a while but I would be very surprised if the rural areas have made great strides in improving their living standards. 

    • #24
  25. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    Skyler (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: Polish Anti-War Activists staged a protest outside the Russian Embassy in Warsaw. Russian soldiers have been looting household appliances in Ukraine. They are doing more than that. Rape appears to be in the Russian arsenal as well as execution style killings of civilians, and targeting hospitals, residences, and schools.

    The latest video from the 1420 channel has a question posed to Russian men on the streets of Moscow: “Would you rape [a] Ukrainian woman?”

    Nobody said yes, but there was a variety of responses to the question. It does give clues as to what kind of information is getting through to Russia. Another question was asked at the end about a story in a British newspaper about British men offering their beds to Ukrainian woman refugees.

    One thing that was a little different about this particular 1420 video was the number of respondents who weren’t afraid to use the word “war” in their response, instead of “special military operation.” There is always somebody who calls it a war, even though he/she can get in trouble for using that word. But this time that word was used a lot. (It could of course be a matter of sampling bias. Best not to draw premature conclusions.)

    There’s no way we can know what is the truth over there. Both the Ukraine and the Russians are fully engaged in heavy propaganda and that includes a lot of lying.

    It’s too bad j-urinalists aren’t asking that question of Russian soldiers in the Ukraine.

    Just guessing that some of those journalists are adverse to having a bayonet up their a&&.

    • #25
  26. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: Polish Anti-War Activists staged a protest outside the Russian Embassy in Warsaw. Russian soldiers have been looting household appliances in Ukraine. They are doing more than that. Rape appears to be in the Russian arsenal as well as execution style killings of civilians, and targeting hospitals, residences, and schools.

    The latest video from the 1420 channel has a question posed to Russian men on the streets of Moscow: “Would you rape [a] Ukrainian woman?”

    Nobody said yes, but there was a variety of responses to the question. It does give clues as to what kind of information is getting through to Russia. Another question was asked at the end about a story in a British newspaper about British men offering their beds to Ukrainian woman refugees.

    One thing that was a little different about this particular 1420 video was the number of respondents who weren’t afraid to use the word “war” in their response, instead of “special military operation.” There is always somebody who calls it a war, even though he/she can get in trouble for using that word. But this time that word was used a lot. (It could of course be a matter of sampling bias. Best not to draw premature conclusions.)

    There’s no way we can know what is the truth over there. Both the Ukraine and the Russians are fully engaged in heavy propaganda and that includes a lot of lying.

    It’s too bad j-urinalists aren’t asking that question of Russian soldiers in the Ukraine.

    Just guessing that some of those journalists are adverse to having a bayonet up their a&&.

    Seems like the Baghdad Bureau of CNN had the same kind of problem…

    • #26
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