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Putin Becoming a Saint for Certain Twisted Conservatives?
I just saw this Twitter quote posted by Scott McConnell, co-founder of The American Conservative magazine, from Jan. 15: “At least Putin doesn’t hate his own people and own country.”
I’m not sure what this quote is referring to exactly, if anything in particular.
Things like this can be said in a joking way, of course, and perhaps it is even true in some ways. I recently heard a Democrat historian who doesn’t fit the mold of a typical 21st century Democrat say that the biggest reason that American leftists don’t care about the opioid crisis is that it is killing off rural white men who 21st century leftists really do not care about anyway. Well, I’m sure that some leftists might care if the electrical grid, food supply, and transportation system crashes, but I’m sure they can think about that later.
Russia President Vladimir Putin’s Russians could still get slaughtered in Ukraine. It looks like 5,768 Russians have been killed in the Russo-Ukrainian or Donbass wars since 2014. That’s 2.38 times the number of American military personnel killed in Afghanistan in just eight years, as compared to 20 years for the Afghanistan War.
I have seen posts on Twitter from some likely conservative types who state that Ukraine is really part of Russia anyway.
Ridiculous, but if you really want to try to make that comparison, Belarus would probably be the better example. Only about 12% of Belarusians actively speak Belarusian; however, Ukrainian is the native language of about 68% of Ukrainians, with Russian being the native language for about 30% of Ukrainians, and 2% of the population using other languages. The percentage of 68% is quite a lot. The last American president to win more than 61.05% of the popular vote was James Monroe in 1820. Besides, native languages are not the only thing when it comes to determining the borders of a country. Some guy already tried Putin’s Sudetenland trick about 84 years ago. If language was the only important thing for determining a country’s boundaries, most of Latin America outside of Brazil and Haiti would simply be one giant Spanish-speaking continental nation. The Ukrainian language is apparently more similar to the NATO languages of Polish and Slovak than Russian anyway, with words borrowed from German, while Russian apparently borrowed more words from Turkish, Latin, and even French due to Peter the Great.
I’ve been told by some Twitter conservative types that the Ukrainian government is one of the most corrupt in the world. Yeah, I think they have been rated even slightly more corrupt than Russia itself, but most countries are rather corrupt to a certain extent except for a few ideal Nordic countries, which I am sure have their own problems. Some Twitter conservative types state that the people in Russia have much better lives than the people in Ukraine. Well, having a hostile Putin as a neighbor isn’t helping that situation. Besides, a person in Qatar on average is richer than the average American, but I have no desire to live there. Russia has had the same dictator since 1999. Ukraine has had six presidents and about 16 prime ministers since 1999. At least there is some democratic turnover there.
Putin may be the richest person in the world by some estimates. I wonder how he acquired all that wealth. I remember reading some article about how our NATO ally Turkey throws all of its disagreeable journalists in jail. Yeah, there’s is a lot of outrage about that, and I don’t think Putin does that. I think Putin just has his enemies killed or deported or both.
I think a lot of the Twitter conservative thought that is default defending Putin is because those people do not want the United States to send its citizens to get into a fight with nuclear-armed Putin, trying to save a corrupt government in Ukraine. That’s understandable, but American presidents should be more like former President Ronald Reagan and at least push back against evil whenever possible. This should be an ongoing concern of any American president. Reagan barely got involved in any military actions during his eight years as president other than Granada and a few strikes against Muammar Gaddafi, but he was also trying to find a way to support freedom and the forces of good.
Former President Donald Trump’s weird somewhat friendliness toward Putin was even a very minor reason why I essentially tossed my presidential vote away in 2016.
Any ideas about how to convince conservative default Putin fans that they have gone down some terrible path?
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Didn’t think I needed to. But OK.
You were right; I only read that one line and then took straight to the top rope.
Had my choice of moves.
Executed a perfect Corkscrew Shooting Star Press. That would be #1, look close to the end to see it.
Generated a few additional geography lesson comments. Cheaply done, mind you.
Answered the substance of your comments in #66.
Didn’t think you wanted me to mention the cheap shots anymore, but you insisted.
You didn’t miss anything – We just disagree on the value of Non-Proliferation. Should have been a treaty.
Non-proliferation is one of those things that we are no longer capable of, as we are no longer a credible ally, nor a menacing foe. We are becoming just another over-powered, unprincipled actor on the stage.
What shall we do in order to non-proliferate (so to speak) the Ukraine situation? Haul ass before smashing our airplanes and abandoning our disappointed friends — or after?
Should have been more specific – I am in favor of retaining credibility on the world stage to prevent Nuclear Proliferation otherwise known as “Non-Proliferation”.
In 1991, Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan became nuclear powers when they took possession of the weapons on their respective territories with the demise of the Soviet Union.
In 1995, the US, UK, Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan worked out a deal where Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan give up their nuclear weapons to Russia in exchange for guarantees of territorial integrity, not being threatened by a nuclear power and all the other guarantees given to signatories of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. The lazy SOBs in the US State department didn’t want to work bilateral arms control treaties with 4 countries when they could deal with just 1.
To give you an example (since you mentioned the forthcoming US Civil war, this would be analogous to Washington (State, not District), North Dakota, Montana, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, Wyoming, Missouri, and Georgia (State, not country) giving up their nukes to Washington (District, not State) in order for Russia to only have to deal with 1 country instead of 9 for arms control purposes.
In 2014, Russia violated the territorial integrity of Ukraine when they annexed Crimea.
In 2022, they are threatening to do more to Ukraine.
But yes, apart from these small things, living up to an agreement made 27 years ago to reduce nuclear proliferation is totally the same as departing in a hasty fashion from a completely corrupt 7th century tribal region populated exclusively by religiously enabled pedophiles.
Absolutely the same thing.
You win.
Enjoy your victory.
All I see here is smoke and snark, peevish non-sequiturs. Should we put boots on the ground? Send weapons? Sign further agreements?
Yes, let us go forward and non-proliferate. How?
My opinion might be shifting. I was reminded that the Ukraine agreed to relinquish its nuclear weapons with the guarantee that we would protect them. I’m trying to learn if that was a ratified treaty or if it was just a promise. If it’s a treaty, then we have no choice but to defend them.
All of the ought, should and, and will has run aground on can’t, won’t, and Just Die. I don’t know which government is supposed to organize some sort of successful effort, but it isn’t the one we have. They’re on the other side, and even when we elect our President, they mutiny and host a coup. Just who is supposed to direct all of the non-proliferatin’ and defendin’? How’s do you think that;s going to work out?
All of you people banging on about how we “ought” to do this and “should” do that need to pull your heads out of the comforting past. Wake up. That’s not us anymore. It’s just not gonna happen, and I would rather not spend a bunch more Americans to prove I’m right to a bunch of people who refuse to smell the fn coffee.
It was just a promise. Clinton never presented it to the Senate for Ratification.
However, the result of the Budapest Memorandum was that each of the countries became signatory to the NPT. The reason that the US, UK and Russia were signatories to the Memorandum is that in accordance with the NPT Article 9 section 2 – those countries are “Depository” nations for the Non-Proliferation Treaty.
The NPT is here.
Status of the treaty is here.
Note the date of Ukraine accession to the NPT is the same date that the Budapest Memorandum is signed.
Then Ukraine was foolish for accepting the word of a Clinton and giving up their ability to defend themselves.
@Skyler, I updated my comment above. Take another look.
I think someone needs a little medicinal support.
What is “just not gonna happen?” – the UK has already committed to sending boots on the ground.
You don’t spend Americans, and never have – those decisions occur above your pay grade. Thank you for your opinion, however – your opinion matters.
My coffee comes from my lovely Jura E6 – scrupulously saved for and purchased at a good price from the Navy Exchange. Smells wonderful. Tastes something like a good stout. Awesome.
I had mistaken you for somebody else. Perhaps somebody you used to be. Carry on then.
Yeah, I was just answering the question on how many countries actually touch the Atlantic. I do not believe having a coastline on the Atlantic was ever a litmus test, even at the beginning.
The North Sea is part of the Atlantic Ocean. Go look it up.
Since ‘North’ and Atlantic’ are both part of North Atlantic Treaty Organization looks like they both are in.
Ha! You are right. I stand corrected. Thanks. I did not know that.
This is an interesting question. Can I distinguish the governance between a corrupt dictator in Haiti and the president of China? I don’t think so. Sometimes the guy at the top wears epaulets and sometimes a suit and tie. Either way, there is a set of haves that run thing things and set of havenots that have taxation without real representation.
Signs you might be living in a kleptocracy/communist system:
* your leaders got very wealthy while in power
* dissenting speech is suppressed
* people who are a danger to regime die early
* power is concentrated nationally
* your government surveilles you
* your judicial system seems partisan
* law enforcement seems partisan
* class mobility is low
Words have meaning. Look how hard you’re working to defend your re-definition. Why not just use the rght words?
You are talking about a country that has waged cyber warfare against Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Ukraine. They have sent troops into South Ossetia and Abkhazia, provinces of Georgia. They have also sent troops into Kazakstan and Ukraine and annexed Crimea. Putin has said Ukraine isn’t even a country and that the dissolution of the USSR to be the greatest tragedy of the 20th century. It doesn’t matter what you think you are talking about if that country has no interest in staying within it’s current borders.
Albania, Croatia, Montenegro, Slovenia, Slovakia, Romania, Hungary, Czech Republic, Poland, North Macedonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Greece and Bulgaria.
Video from the Russian Defense Ministry showing Russian tanks entering Ukraine under USSR flags.
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501881226130558980