Why New Refrigerators Fail

 

We all remember the old refrigerators: the appliances that lasted for decades and seemed like they could run forever. I wish I still owned one. I just had an expensive refrigerator die – a top-of-the-line Electrolux that keeled over exactly two years after we installed it. And now I understand why.

The repair guys have told me that all fridges and freezers sold now have a short life — something like four years on average. Why?

The answer is a combination: they banned Freon (for so-called “environmental” reasons), which did not corrode the heat exchanger pipe the same way. The new refrigerants have all kinds of nasty lifetime issues.

And, to save a little money, they use thin-walled copper pipe instead of the classic thicker walls, or aluminum.  So with condensate comes corrosion, pinholes, and … the refrigerant goes bye-bye.

So I have just paid too much money (but still one-third the cost of replacing the fridge) to replace a flawed part with the same damned part – just newer. And now the clock is ticking anew.

This is nuts, of course. I understand about a manufacturer saving some money here and there. But on units that cost $1-3k… really?!

If anyone has a manufacturer who actually is willing to pay the extra few dollars needed to make long-lasting appliances (and is not a five-digit SubZero-type brand), please let me know. We have a big home and we feed a lot of people: I think we have seven full-size standing freezer-only units and three to four refrigerators. I cannot replace them all every four years!

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  1. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    GLDIII Purveyor of Splendid Ma… (View Comment):
    Go to Home Depot and buy a box of TSP cleaner in paint section. Add one tsp to every load. (Same thing with your clothes washer) It’s to replace the TSP they removed to make the Eco Facists happy about 10 years ago.

    Lol.  I did, years ago, but I can’t get my wife to use it.

    • #61
  2. jmelvin Member
    jmelvin
    @jmelvin

    About 10 years back my wife and I replaced our old refrigerator that came with the house with a mid-sized French door Samsung refrigerator / freezer, but on the whole, it’s pretty basic.  It does have an ice maker, but we’ve never used it and we specifically looked for one with no door penetrations, which will eventually fail to seal well and lead to odd cycling of the cooling unit and likely early failure.  It’s been a great fridge and has held up just fine, but I went in with the plan to minimize the potential for things to go wrong, some of which aren’t well detected unless you’re specifically snooping and inspecting for it (like leaks that then cause high cycling).

    This isn’t exactly it, but it’s not too far from what we have:  https://www.samsung.com/us/home-appliances/refrigerators/3-door-french-door/20-cu–ft–french-door-refrigerator-rf20hfenbww-us/

    • #62
  3. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    GLDIII Purveyor of Splendid Ma… (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I was told by dishwasher repairman that dishwashers were really bad. None of the eco-stuff matters if it doesn’t last as long or it doesn’t clean very well.

    I love our five-year-old LG refrigerator. Never a problem (so far). It replaced a 12-year-old GE that was having minor problems.

    But we also replaced our dishwasher a few years ago with a new, expensive Kitchen aid. It’s very pretty, has lots of options, is freakishly quiet – you can be standing three feet away and not be sure it’s running. The only problem is it doesn’t get the glasses clean.

    Go to Home Depot and buy a box of TSP cleaner in paint section. Add one tsp to every load. (Same thing with your clothes washer) It’s to replace the TSP they removed to make the Eco Facists happy about 10 years ago.

    We have the Bosch DW, and I have to check the little red “operating light” that shines on the floor beneath the right hand side of the door. Maybe my hearing is going, but unless the house is absolutely silent I cannot hear it when it’s cleaning.

    You have to be careful about that TSP – I went to Ace hardware a few months back, and what they are selling as “TSP” is not actually Tri-sodium phosphate,  it’s a brand name for something similar.  Label specifically warns you that it will etch glass (IIRC).  Lots of warning about this in the reviews for the same product on Amazon. 

    • #63
  4. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    iWe (View Comment):
    Perhaps. Physics still plays a role, and reducing mass increases the local force in a collision.

    F=MA.  Reducing Mass will reduce Force.

     

    • #64
  5. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Lot of conspiracy theorizing in this thread…

    I’m not sure it fits the “conspiracy theory” mold. For more than fifty years I’ve been hearing of a service economy and “planned obsolescence”. If we’re not manufacturing our own products we are at the mercy of foreign manufacturers, and they can make them as poorly as they want no matter how much or how little they cost.

    The “conspiracy” I’ve seen is a few comments is that companies are intentionally making crap so they can sell replacements.

     

    • #65
  6. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    GLDIII Purveyor of Splendid Ma… (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I was told by dishwasher repairman that dishwashers were really bad. None of the eco-stuff matters if it doesn’t last as long or it doesn’t clean very well.

    I love our five-year-old LG refrigerator. Never a problem (so far). It replaced a 12-year-old GE that was having minor problems.

    But we also replaced our dishwasher a few years ago with a new, expensive Kitchen aid. It’s very pretty, has lots of options, is freakishly quiet – you can be standing three feet away and not be sure it’s running. The only problem is it doesn’t get the glasses clean.

    Go to Home Depot and buy a box of TSP cleaner in paint section. Add one tsp to every load. (Same thing with your clothes washer) It’s to replace the TSP they removed to make the Eco Facists happy about 10 years ago.

    We have the Bosch DW, and I have to check the little red “operating light” that shines on the floor beneath the right hand side of the door. Maybe my hearing is going, but unless the house is absolutely silent I cannot hear it when it’s cleaning.

    You have to be careful about that TSP – I went to Ace hardware a few months back, and what they are selling as “TSP” is not actually Tri-sodium phosphate, it’s a brand name for something similar. Label specifically warns you that it will etch glass (IIRC). Lots of warning about this in the reviews for the same product on Amazon.

    I want to be clear about this. Actual Tri-sodium phosphate will make my dishwasher work better, correct?

    • #66
  7. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I have another one. Turbo engines help them beat the fleet mileage requirements, but nobody gets that mileage in real life. It’s possible that turbos aren’t going to last as long as regular engines, for no net gain.

    Yes. Turbos are inherently shorter-lived than are normally-aspirated engines. Which is why I go out of my way to buy big V-8s with no turbo. CO2 is plant food – so I am doing my part to increase life on our planet.

    • #67
  8. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):
    Perhaps. Physics still plays a role, and reducing mass increases the local force in a collision.

    F=MA. Reducing Mass will reduce Force.

    Really? You did not want to think even a LITTLE?

    Take two windscreens. One is thick, one is thin. The thicker one resists the piece of gravel better because the local (windscreen) force involves the collision of two components. If the thick one is infinitely large, then the given piece of gravel has an infinitely small impact on it.

    For the same reason when I used to drive a Suburban (at 17) I totalled several cars belonging to OTHER people without ever more than denting my battletank.

    • #68
  9. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Lot of conspiracy theorizing in this thread…

    The “conspiracy” I’ve seen is a few comments is that companies are intentionallymaking crap so they can sell replacements.

    So don’t call it “crap”. Companies make tradeoffs. Why spend more money in product quality if there is no net benefit to the manufacturer?

    I run a company. Our product is not over-engineered. It would be silly to over-engineer if the value is not there on the other side.

    No conspiracy. Just simple economics.

    Plus, of course, stupid regulations that remove better refrigerants for inferior ones backed by lobbyists.

    • #69
  10. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Lot of conspiracy theorizing in this thread…

    I’m not sure it fits the “conspiracy theory” mold. For more than fifty years I’ve been hearing of a service economy and “planned obsolescence”. If we’re not manufacturing our own products we are at the mercy of foreign manufacturers, and they can make them as poorly as they want no matter how much or how little they cost.

    The “conspiracy” I’ve seen is a few comments is that companies are intentionally making crap so they can sell replacements.

    This has been going on for years.  I not too long ago read a complaint that BMW or Mercedes is using a few plastic parts in its transmissions.  The wear out quicker but — they’re lighter?

    • #70
  11. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Lot of conspiracy theorizing in this thread…

    I’m not sure it fits the “conspiracy theory” mold. For more than fifty years I’ve been hearing of a service economy and “planned obsolescence”. If we’re not manufacturing our own products we are at the mercy of foreign manufacturers, and they can make them as poorly as they want no matter how much or how little they cost.

    The “conspiracy” I’ve seen is a few comments is that companies are intentionally making crap so they can sell replacements.

    This has been going on for years. I not too long ago read a complaint that BMW or Mercedes is using a few plastic parts in its transmissions. The wear out quicker but — they’re lighter?

    There are always tradeoffs in engineering compromises to balance competing goals.  In your transmission example,  fuel efficiency versus lifespan.

    That’s fundamentally different than this comment:

    A refrigeration compressor is one of the simplest and most trouble-free motors there is. A well-built line set and coil to keep a simple box cold can be made comparitively cheaply, and, as long as the compressor is allowed to keep from overheating (very simple maintenance), an electric icebox could easily be expected to last 50 years. Every one of them.

    But where’s the profit in that?

    • #71
  12. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    iWe (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):
    Perhaps. Physics still plays a role, and reducing mass increases the local force in a collision.

    F=MA. Reducing Mass will reduce Force.

    Really? You did not want to think even a LITTLE?

    Take two windscreens. One is thick, one is thin. The thicker one resists the piece of gravel better because the local (windscreen) force involves the collision of two components. If the thick one is infinitely large, then the given piece of gravel has an infinitely small impact on it.

    For the same reason when I used to drive a Suburban (at 17) I totalled several cars belonging to OTHER people without ever more than denting my battletank.

    I’m not an engineer.  My last Physics class was in high school.  Maybe you’re talking about some other kind of force than the force I learned about.

    But I guarantee I would have gotten a failing grade from Mr. Mitchell if I’d answered a question on a test by saying that reducing mass increases force.  It’s mathematically impossible.

    If you want to talk about the relative mass of two colliding objects and the impact (no pun intended) that it has on the outcome, that’s a different question.  If you want to talk about the amount of damage a piece of gravel will do when it hits two windshields of differing mass, that’s again a different question.

    But reducing mass while acceleration remains constant = less force.  By definition.

    • #72
  13. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    But reducing mass while acceleration remains constant = less force.  By definition.

    You are correct on this. But you had to misunderstand my point to get there.

    I wrote “local force” suggesting that the pressures on the impact point of glass are lower because a heavier windscreen has much more mass than the rock, so the point of collision results in less damage to the glass than if it were lighter.

    • #73
  14. Fritz Coolidge
    Fritz
    @Fritz

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    [snip]

    The thing I wonder about are CVTs. It sounds like they’re not going to be economical in the long run compared to a regular transmission. You don’t repair them; you replace them even though they are cheaper upfront. Having said that, the Subaru CVT is excellent.

    @rufusrjones

    I leased a new Nissan a couple years back; I lead a low mileage lifestyle and nailed down a great buyout price when my lease is up on what will be a very low mileage three-year old vehicle.

    But Nissan had several major class action lawsuits over CVT failures. While the continuously variable design produces excellent gas mileage (I get 25 in town and 45 on the highway), it wears out pretty early. Some cases were failures at 30k or 70k, for example. And the company had at one time developed the reputation of being extremely difficult to get to cover replacing the CVT on warranty. The settlements of the cases extended warranties for many, and I am told the design has been improved, at least by the time I leased a 2019 model. However, the prospect of losing a CVT when out of warranty and a replacement costing several thousand dollars (apparently one does not merely install it, once installed it has to be programmed as well) has made me inclined just to finish out the lease (and warranty), and then I’ll buy something with a more traditional transmission. YMMV.

    • #74
  15. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    iWe (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    But reducing mass while acceleration remains constant = less force. By definition.

    You are correct on this. But you had to misunderstand my point to get there.

    I wrote “local force” suggesting that the pressures on the impact point of glass are lower because a heavier windscreen has much more mass than the rock, so the point of collision results in less damage to the glass than if it were lighter.

    That’s not “reducing force”, that’s “better withstanding force”.

    • #75
  16. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Fritz (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    [snip]

    The thing I wonder about are CVTs. It sounds like they’re not going to be economical in the long run compared to a regular transmission. You don’t repair them; you replace them even though they are cheaper upfront. Having said that, the Subaru CVT is excellent.

    @ rufusrjones

    I leased a new Nissan a couple years back; I lead a low mileage lifestyle and nailed down a great buyout price when my lease is up on what will be a very low mileage three-year old vehicle.

    But Nissan had several major class action lawsuits over CVT failures. While the continuously variable design produces excellent gas mileage (I get 25 in town and 45 on the highway), it wears out pretty early. Some cases were failures at 30k or 70k, for example. And the company had at one time developed the reputation of being extremely difficult to get to cover replacing the CVT on warranty. The settlements of the cases extended warranties for many, and I am told the design has been improved, at least by the time I leased a 2019 model. However, the prospect of losing a CVT when out of warranty and a replacement costing several thousand dollars (apparently one does not merely install it, once installed it has to be programmed as well) has made me inclined just to finish out the lease (and warranty), and then I’ll buy something with a more traditional transmission. YMMV.

    Nissan was notorious. 

    I like it. The main point I want to get across is, some people think there are high odds they ware out before the rest of the car in many cases. Then you have to buy a new one. You don’t have any other choice.

    • #76
  17. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    CVT’s lower the cost. They get better gas mileage. And you will probably have to junk the car sooner. The government should not force this stuff.

    • #77
  18. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    Todays autos are a miracle of complex systems that are in essence capable of driving themselves, and the life expectancy is 250K+ miles, where it was uncommon to achieve 100K during the rust buckets of the 70’s.

    The speed, accuracy and enhanced tolerances routinely achieved in manufacturing today is astounding. So no, I disagree.

    The electronics are what make them so expensive and inconvenient to repair. There are also lots of manufacturers stuck in production hell waiting for resupply of parts.

    Most mechanics I know recommend simpler cars with less doohickeys if you want to save money and headache in the long run.

    My upright freezer, a 21 cu ft Frigidaire that cost about $800 as I recall, has no complicated electronics at all.  The thermostat is basically just mechanical, and there is a simple timer that switches on the defrost element each 12 hours (I think) of running time.  (Not clock time.  Time when the system is activated by the thermostat.)

    • #78
  19. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Why not use propane as a refrigerant?

    R-290 (Refrigerant grade propane) has already been approved by the EPA. Propane has been in commercial use for over a century, its a well understood chemical – so engineering talent for the handling and storage of propane shouldn’t be an issue.

    Maybe Hank Hill had a point?

    Actually from what I’ve read, some refrigerators do use propane, especially smaller ones and “apartment” and “dorm room” style.  But do you want a refrigerator that might EXPLODE when the refrigerant leaks?

    • #79
  20. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Lot of conspiracy theorizing in this thread…

    I’m not sure it fits the “conspiracy theory” mold. For more than fifty years I’ve been hearing of a service economy and “planned obsolescence”. If we’re not manufacturing our own products we are at the mercy of foreign manufacturers, and they can make them as poorly as they want no matter how much or how little they cost.

    The “conspiracy” I’ve seen is a few comments is that companies are intentionally making crap so they can sell replacements.

    This has been going on for years. I not too long ago read a complaint that BMW or Mercedes is using a few plastic parts in its transmissions. The wear out quicker but — they’re lighter?

    There are always tradeoffs in engineering compromises to balance competing goals. In your transmission example, fuel efficiency versus lifespan.

    That’s fundamentally different than this comment:

    A refrigeration compressor is one of the simplest and most trouble-free motors there is. A well-built line set and coil to keep a simple box cold can be made comparitively cheaply, and, as long as the compressor is allowed to keep from overheating (very simple maintenance), an electric icebox could easily be expected to last 50 years. Every one of them.

    But where’s the profit in that?

    100% of drive train energy is transmitted through the transmission.  It should be made to not wear out.  Fenders can rust.  Clocks can stop.  Windows can fail to go up or down, and the car will still get you from point A to B.  But without the transmission, you ain’t goin’ nowhere, fella.

    • #80
  21. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I was told by dishwasher repairman that dishwashers were really bad. None of the eco-stuff matters if it doesn’t last as long or it doesn’t clean very well.

    I love our five-year-old LG refrigerator. Never a problem (so far). It replaced a 12-year-old GE that was having minor problems.

    But we also replaced our dishwasher a few years ago with a new, expensive Kitchen aid. It’s very pretty, has lots of options, is freakishly quiet – you can be standing three feet away and not be sure it’s running. The only problem is it doesn’t get the glasses clean.

    Supposedly, Bosch is the best.

    • #81
  22. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    iWe (View Comment):

    I wrote “local force” suggesting that the pressures on the impact point of glass are lower because a heavier windscreen has much more mass than the rock, so the point of collision results in less damage to the glass than if it were lighter.

    But if the construction is changed, the materials different, or any other factors changed, then that one factor of mass can be important or insignificant.  You can’t just point to “cars weigh less” or “windshield is thinner” and conclude that one is better than the other.  It’s only half the story.

    • #82
  23. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    kedavis (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Why not use propane as a refrigerant?

    R-290 (Refrigerant grade propane) has already been approved by the EPA. Propane has been in commercial use for over a century, its a well understood chemical – so engineering talent for the handling and storage of propane shouldn’t be an issue.

    Maybe Hank Hill had a point?

    Actually from what I’ve read, some refrigerators do use propane, especially smaller ones and “apartment” and “dorm room” style. But do you want a refrigerator that might EXPLODE when the refrigerant leaks?

    A refrigerator holds about 10 fl oz of coolant. So little propane isn’t going to blow up anything.

    • #83
  24. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Why not use propane as a refrigerant?

    R-290 (Refrigerant grade propane) has already been approved by the EPA. Propane has been in commercial use for over a century, its a well understood chemical – so engineering talent for the handling and storage of propane shouldn’t be an issue.

    Maybe Hank Hill had a point?

    Actually from what I’ve read, some refrigerators do use propane, especially smaller ones and “apartment” and “dorm room” style. But do you want a refrigerator that might EXPLODE when the refrigerant leaks?

    A refrigerator holds about 10 fl oz of coolant. So little propane isn’t going to blow up anything.

    How much do you think it takes?  I’ve read stories of explosions caused by leaking little gas cylinders used to fuel small camp stoves.  They don’t hold a lot either.  And it’s more the gas leaked into the air that explodes/burns, not necessarily the tank.

     

     

     

    • #84
  25. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Skyler (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):

    I wrote “local force” suggesting that the pressures on the impact point of glass are lower because a heavier windscreen has much more mass than the rock, so the point of collision results in less damage to the glass than if it were lighter.

    But if the construction is changed, the materials different, or any other factors changed, then that one factor of mass can be important or insignificant. You can’t just point to “cars weigh less” or “windshield is thinner” and conclude that one is better than the other. It’s only half the story.

    As cars became more aerodynamic the angle of the windshield changed to be less upright, so a rock that hits the windshield is more likely to strike a glancing blow and bounce off.  Thus the windshield can be made thinner with no loss of functionality – on average.  

     

    • #85
  26. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    kedavis (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Why not use propane as a refrigerant?

    R-290 (Refrigerant grade propane) has already been approved by the EPA. Propane has been in commercial use for over a century, its a well understood chemical – so engineering talent for the handling and storage of propane shouldn’t be an issue.

    Maybe Hank Hill had a point?

    Actually from what I’ve read, some refrigerators do use propane, especially smaller ones and “apartment” and “dorm room” style. But do you want a refrigerator that might EXPLODE when the refrigerant leaks?

    A refrigerator holds about 10 fl oz of coolant. So little propane isn’t going to blow up anything.

    How much do you think it takes? I’ve read stories of explosions caused by leaking little gas cylinders used to fuel small camp stoves. They don’t hold a lot either. And it’s more the gas leaked into the air that explodes/burns, not necessarily the tank.

    The smallest propane tank (that I could find) is 4.5 gallon (the size that would be used on a BBQ) which is 576 fl oz. or 57x more than whats in the propane tank.

    While the propane tank has many exposed surfaces that might be ruptured to leak propane, the structure of the fridge provides (or could be designed) to protect the propane compression cycle.

    WoW neat video! What was that guy doing in the cab when it exploded? Iam guessing his music appreciation scores just nose dived.

    • #86
  27. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Why not use propane as a refrigerant?

    R-290 (Refrigerant grade propane) has already been approved by the EPA. Propane has been in commercial use for over a century, its a well understood chemical – so engineering talent for the handling and storage of propane shouldn’t be an issue.

    Maybe Hank Hill had a point?

    Actually from what I’ve read, some refrigerators do use propane, especially smaller ones and “apartment” and “dorm room” style. But do you want a refrigerator that might EXPLODE when the refrigerant leaks?

    A refrigerator holds about 10 fl oz of coolant. So little propane isn’t going to blow up anything.

    How much do you think it takes? I’ve read stories of explosions caused by leaking little gas cylinders used to fuel small camp stoves. They don’t hold a lot either. And it’s more the gas leaked into the air that explodes/burns, not necessarily the tank.

    The smallest propane tank (that I could find) is 4.5 gallon (the size that would be used on a BBQ) which is 576 fl oz. or 57x more than whats in the propane tank.

    While the propane tank has many exposed surfaces that might be ruptured to leak propane, the structure of the fridge provides (or could be designed) to protect the propane compression cycle.

    WoW neat video! What was that guy doing in the cab when it exploded? Iam guessing his music appreciation scores just nose dived.

     

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Bernzomatic-14-oz-Propane-Cylinder-1-Pack/17128612

     

    • #87
  28. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    kedavis (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Why not use propane as a refrigerant?

    R-290 (Refrigerant grade propane) has already been approved by the EPA. Propane has been in commercial use for over a century, its a well understood chemical – so engineering talent for the handling and storage of propane shouldn’t be an issue.

    Maybe Hank Hill had a point?

    Actually from what I’ve read, some refrigerators do use propane, especially smaller ones and “apartment” and “dorm room” style. But do you want a refrigerator that might EXPLODE when the refrigerant leaks?

    A refrigerator holds about 10 fl oz of coolant. So little propane isn’t going to blow up anything.

    How much do you think it takes? I’ve read stories of explosions caused by leaking little gas cylinders used to fuel small camp stoves. They don’t hold a lot either. And it’s more the gas leaked into the air that explodes/burns, not necessarily the tank.

    The smallest propane tank (that I could find) is 4.5 gallon (the size that would be used on a BBQ) which is 576 fl oz. or 57x more than whats in the propane tank.

    While the propane tank has many exposed surfaces that might be ruptured to leak propane, the structure of the fridge provides (or could be designed) to protect the propane compression cycle.

    WoW neat video! What was that guy doing in the cab when it exploded? Iam guessing his music appreciation scores just nose dived.

     

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Bernzomatic-14-oz-Propane-Cylinder-1-Pack/17128612

     

     

     

    OK, how many gas cylinders where leaking?

    • #88
  29. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

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    Why not use propane as a refrigerant?

    R-290 (Refrigerant grade propane) has already been approved by the EPA. Propane has been in commercial use for over a century, its a well understood chemical – so engineering talent for the handling and storage of propane shouldn’t be an issue.

    Maybe Hank Hill had a point?

    Actually from what I’ve read, some refrigerators do use propane, especially smaller ones and “apartment” and “dorm room” style. But do you want a refrigerator that might EXPLODE when the refrigerant leaks?

    A refrigerator holds about 10 fl oz of coolant. So little propane isn’t going to blow up anything.

    How much do you think it takes? I’ve read stories of explosions caused by leaking little gas cylinders used to fuel small camp stoves. They don’t hold a lot either. And it’s more the gas leaked into the air that explodes/burns, not necessarily the tank.

    The smallest propane tank (that I could find) is 4.5 gallon (the size that would be used on a BBQ) which is 576 fl oz. or 57x more than whats in the propane tank.

    While the propane tank has many exposed surfaces that might be ruptured to leak propane, the structure of the fridge provides (or could be designed) to protect the propane compression cycle.

    WoW neat video! What was that guy doing in the cab when it exploded? Iam guessing his music appreciation scores just nose dived.

     

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Bernzomatic-14-oz-Propane-Cylinder-1-Pack/17128612

     

     

     

    OK, how many gas cylinders where leaking?

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    One.

    As described in the comments.  

    • #89
  30. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    kedavis (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

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    kedavis (View Comment):

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    kedavis (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Why not use propane as a refrigerant?

    R-290 (Refrigerant grade propane) has already been approved by the EPA. Propane has been in commercial use for over a century, its a well understood chemical – so engineering talent for the handling and storage of propane shouldn’t be an issue.

    Maybe Hank Hill had a point?

    Actually from what I’ve read, some refrigerators do use propane, especially smaller ones and “apartment” and “dorm room” style. But do you want a refrigerator that might EXPLODE when the refrigerant leaks?

    A refrigerator holds about 10 fl oz of coolant. So little propane isn’t going to blow up anything.

    How much do you think it takes? I’ve read stories of explosions caused by leaking little gas cylinders used to fuel small camp stoves. They don’t hold a lot either. And it’s more the gas leaked into the air that explodes/burns, not necessarily the tank.

    The smallest propane tank (that I could find) is 4.5 gallon (the size that would be used on a BBQ) which is 576 fl oz. or 57x more than whats in the propane tank.

    While the propane tank has many exposed surfaces that might be ruptured to leak propane, the structure of the fridge provides (or could be designed) to protect the propane compression cycle.

    WoW neat video! What was that guy doing in the cab when it exploded? Iam guessing his music appreciation scores just nose dived.

     

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Bernzomatic-14-oz-Propane-Cylinder-1-Pack/17128612

     

     

     

    OK, how many gas cylinders where leaking?

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    One.

    As described in the comments.

    ok… wow… Propane refrigerators already exist – and have for years – I havent heard anything about them exploding….

    Home Depot – Propane and solar appliances

    • #90
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