A Pitiful Military Image

 

Gen. Lloyd Austin reviewing Philippine troops:

This just makes me sad, to see “soldiers”, outdoors, all wearing masks and face shields.  These guys kill people for a living, and they have been made deathly afraid of a virus that is no real threat to them.

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  1. Some Call Me ...Tim Coolidge
    Some Call Me ...Tim
    @SomeCallMeTim

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    My goodness, the vituperation directed at Gen. MacArthur surprises me. I was raised to view him as a demigod, my Dad applauded his role in the rebuilding of Japan. How opinions differ.

    Gen. MacArthur has a complex legacy.  A mama’s boy who worshipped his father and craved glory, he proved to be an able and courageous leader in WW I (reportedly his men in the Rainbow Division adored him).  Between the wars, he was Chief of Staff of the Army and suppressed the Bonus Marchers.  In the Philippines, he was caught with his pants down (and with his air force on the ground where it was easily destroyed).  Fleeing Corregidor (on orders), he went to Australia.  He ultimately designed and led a brilliant island-hopping campaign back to the Philippines.  After the war, he was an extremely effective viceroy ruling the defeated Japanese, laying the ground work for Japan to become a staunch ally in the Pacific.  During the Korean War, MacArthur directed the landing at Inchon (against the advice of pretty much everyone involved) which turned an almost disastrous defeat into seeming certain victory.  Then, ignoring indications of Chinese troop involvement, he pushed to the Yalu which ended up in the Chinese offensive that pushed the U N forces back below the 38th Parallel.  Then he got into it with Truman and got fired.  There’s an awful lot to admire in the man, and just as much to dislike.  It can be difficult to take an objective view of Gen. MacArthur.

    My favorite book on Gen. MacArthur is American Caesar by William Manchester.  My favorite passage in the book occurs when MacArthur is meeting with FDR about a proposed $80 million reduction in the War Department’s budget.  A man given to quite florid language, MacArthur, outraged, said, “When we lose the next war, and an American boy with an enemy bayonet through his belly and an enemy foot on his dying throat spits out his last curse, I want the name not to be MacArthur, but Roosevelt!”

    I can’t imagine any of our current leaders, especially the subject of this post, doing anything remotely resembling that remark.

    • #31
  2. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    cdor (View Comment):
    . I understand they are having some sort of trouble with Islamist terrorists on their southern (this has been a problem there for decades), and they need our military help.

    General Austin can now send in his new favorite platoon of all-trans soldiers to kick those terrorists’ backside. As long as they don’t need time off for surgery, they should be done in a few weeks. BTW, some of my best friends are trans, so don’t think I am being snarky, or anything like that.

    • #32
  3. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    Some Call Me …Tim (View Comment):

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    My goodness, the vituperation directed at Gen. MacArthur surprises me. I was raised to view him as a demigod, my Dad applauded his role in the rebuilding of Japan. How opinions differ.

    Gen. MacArthur has a complex legacy. A mama’s boy who worshipped his father and craved glory, he proved to be an able and courageous leader in WW I (reportedly his men in the Rainbow Division adored him). Between the wars, he was Chief of Staff of the Army and suppressed the Bonus Marchers. In the Philippines, he was caught with his pants down (and with his air force on the ground where it was easily destroyed). Fleeing Corregidor (on orders), he went to Australia. He ultimately designed and led a brilliant island-hopping campaign back to the Philippines. After the war, he was an extremely effective viceroy ruling the defeated Japanese, laying the ground work for Japan to become a staunch ally in the Pacific. During the Korean War, MacArthur directed the landing at Inchon (against the advice of pretty much everyone involved) which turned an almost disastrous defeat into seeming certain victory. Then, ignoring indications of Chinese troop involvement, he pushed to the Yalu which ended up in the Chinese offensive that pushed the U N forces back below the 38th Parallel. Then he got into it with Truman and got fired. There’s an awful lot to admire in the man, and just as much to dislike. It can be difficult to take an objective view of Gen. MacArthur.

    My favorite book on Gen. MacArthur is American Caesar by William Manchester. My favorite passage in the book occurs when MacArthur is meeting with FDR about a proposed $80 million reduction in the War Department’s budget. A man given to quite florid language, MacArthur, outraged, said, “When we lose the next war, and an American boy with an enemy bayonet through his belly and an enemy foot on his dying throat spits out his last curse, I want the name not to be MacArthur, but Roosevelt!”

    I can’t imagine any of our current leaders, especially the subject of this post, doing anything remotely resembling that remark.

    Pretty good synopsis of MacArthur right down to American Caesar which is probably the best bio I’ve read on him.

    I view MacArthur’s career as a bit of a wash because it seemed he did some good things followed by monumental screw-ups.

    I’ve always believed that a good measure of a leader is how many underlings go on to command positions.  Eisenhower, for example, had several on his staff who went on to become division and corps commanders.  I can’t think of one of MacArthur’s staff who went on to great things.  That tells me that MacArthur needed to have “yes men” around him.  Failure to listen to opposing points of view can be disasterous. (Ex: Intel about Chinese buildup on Yalu)

    • #33
  4. Some Call Me ...Tim Coolidge
    Some Call Me ...Tim
    @SomeCallMeTim

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    Some Call Me …Tim (View Comment):

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

     

    Gen. MacArthur has a complex legacy. He proved to be an able and courageous leader in WW I (reportedly his men in the Rainbow Division adored him). Between the wars, he was Chief of Staff of the Army and suppressed the Bonus Marchers. In the Philippines, he was caught with his pants down (and with his air force on the ground where it was easily destroyed). Fleeing Corregidor (on orders), he went to Australia. He ultimately designed and led a brilliant island-hopping campaign back to the Philippines. After the war, he was an extremely effective viceroy ruling the defeated Japanese, laying the ground work for Japan to become a staunch ally in the Pacific. During the Korean War, MacArthur directed the landing at Inchon (against the advice of pretty much everyone involved) which turned an almost disastrous defeat into seeming certain victory. Then, ignoring indications of Chinese troop involvement, he pushed to the Yalu which ended up in the Chinese offensive that pushed the U N forces back below the 38th Parallel. Then he got into it with Truman and got fired. There’s an awful lot to admire in the man, and just as much to dislike. It can be difficult to take an objective view of Gen. MacArthur.

    My favorite book on Gen. MacArthur is American Caesar by William Manchester. My favorite passage in the book occurs when MacArthur is meeting with FDR about a proposed $80 million reduction in the War Department’s budget. A man given to quite florid language, MacArthur, outraged, said, “When we lose the next war, and an American boy with an enemy bayonet through his belly and an enemy foot on his dying throat spits out his last curse, I want the name not to be MacArthur, but Roosevelt!”

    I can’t imagine any of our current leaders, doing anything remotely resembling that remark.

    Pretty good synopsis of MacArthur right down to American Caesar which is probably the best bio I’ve read on him.

    I view MacArthur’s career as a bit of a wash because it seemed he did some good things followed by monumental screw-ups.

    I’ve always believed that a good measure of a leader is how many underlings go on to command positions. Eisenhower, for example, had several on his staff who went on to become division and corps commanders. I can’t think of one of MacArthur’s staff who went on to great things. That tells me that MacArthur needed to have “yes men” around him. Failure to listen to opposing points of view can be disasterous. (Ex: Intel about Chinese buildup on Yalu)

    Very good point about MacArthur.  In some cases, he was ill served by his staff who were competent yes men. His field commanders like Eichelberger and Kenney performed very well.  The Pacific was overshadowed by the European theater, and MacArthur hogged whatever press the SWPOA got. 

    • #34
  5. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    She (View Comment):

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    In my opinion, he looks somewhat sinister in that getup. Politically incorrect comment to follow. His sinister look is increased by the fact that he is black.

    Yes, I do agree with that, if only because it’s impossible to ignore that Lloyd Austin is wearing a facemask, whereas it’s possible to overlook, or not notice the fact that the members of the Filipino military are (since they’re both “non-white” I don’t consider that remark particularly offensive.) At least, call me crazy (and some have), I had to look twice to see that all the troops were similarly enrobed.

    Some Call Me …Tim (View Comment):
    Thank you for setting the record straight. I take back my moron comment. He’s just a boob.

    I could not agree more. One of the things he could have done (if he had much common sense at all) is recognized the poor optics of the thing, and just skipped the troop review and gone straight to whatever he was there for. (I’m not sure what that is, but I presume he was there for something.)

    Actually, this was a momentous occasion. When Duterte was elected president of the Philippines, he put under “review” their policy of allowing “visiting” US forces there, with a possibility they would kick us out completely. He changed his mind, and the US-Philippine agreement was continued last week. I understand they are having some sort of trouble with Islamist terrorists on their southern (this has been a problem there for decades), and they need our military help.

    The relationship with the PI has been complicated for a number of years.  Although (I believe) the majority of the Philippine people still like Americans, there has always been a noisy Left Wing that wanted us completely out of the country.  Things sort of reached a melting point when Mount Pinatubo erupted in 1991. The U.S. decided to abandon Clark AB (followed by Subic Bay) because of the layers of volcanic ash that had come down.  The Philippine government indignantly demanded that we clean up the bases before we left and, as far as I know, we politely declined.

    As I recall there was a particularly destructive typhoon that hit the PI a few years after we left and, naturally, the Philippine government blasted us because it took us so long to respond.  (All our equipment and supplies had to be shipped in from Guam, Okinawa and Hawaii.)

    Duerte is a congenital idiot.  Since he gained office, he has consistently blasted the U.S. but now, due to China’s belligerence, he seems to realize which side his bread is buttered on.

    • #35
  6. Rightfromthestart Coolidge
    Rightfromthestart
    @Rightfromthestart

    CA Crabtree ( I didn’t want to copy the whole post ) 

     ‘ I can’t think of one of MacArthur’s staff who went on to great things.’

    I believe Eisenhower had been on MacArthur’s staff.   

    • #36
  7. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    Rightfromthestart (View Comment):

    CA Crabtree ( I didn’t want to copy the whole post )

    ‘ I can’t think of one of MacArthur’s staff who went on to great things.’

    I believe Eisenhower had been on MacArthur’s staff.

    That might have been before MacArthur’s paranoia took over.  At any rate, Eisenhower’s statement that “I told that dumb SOB not to go down there” (to the site of the Bonus Army’s encampment) was hardly a ringing endorsement of his commander.

    • #37
  8. Rightfromthestart Coolidge
    Rightfromthestart
    @Rightfromthestart

    The chroniclers of our history , both first draft and later, have a particular animosity to certain people , MacArthur, Patton, McCarthy, Nixon , Goldwater in his heyday , and Reagan come to mind. These people are portrayed as stupid, or crazy or evil but always unsavory. I’ve noticed one common link among them though, they were all outspoken anti-Communists. This makes our chroniclers very uneasy, they may not exactly be communists but they seem to have a soft spot , they are anti-anti-communists. 

    • #38
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